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How to be a recession-proof architect?

Zulqar

Another recession is on the horizon. Architects usually get hit hard during the downturns. We are all depressed. Any encouraging thoughts from those who survived past recessions as small practice architects or employees? Or, any creative ideas from the young architects? What can we do- sharpen certain skills to save the job or open up small design and contracting shop if fired or whatever… other than driving Uber kind of stuff.

 
Apr 25, 20 1:22 pm
archeyarch

save you money

Apr 25, 20 1:27 pm  · 
1  · 
zonker

Having survived the 08' - 09' recession, it's a matter of proficiency and how you are perceived. You must be the the best, at what you do and make sure everyone in the office sees you as a go to person, be the first one in and the last one out. Know the codes, know BIM. Know design. In architecture, you can't be an average Jill or Jane, they are the first to go in a downturn. This downturn is worse, it's much harder to get unemployment and the so called CARES act can't be counted on. This isn't a recession, it's a depression - don't kid yourself, this could last for months.

Apr 25, 20 10:58 pm  · 
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square.

this is terrible advice. if your company is one that requires you to be the "first in, last out," it's indicative of a toxic culture. in reality, especially in larger office, decisions about layoffs have nothing to do with this.. these decisions are about profit and what's best for the company. counter advice- find an office that values you as a person and for the quality of your work.

Apr 27, 20 10:39 am  · 
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Chad Miller

code - that is horrible advice unless you're a no talent hack with no motivation who dose nothing but pickup redlines. I'd say the best you can do is to be productive, show that you've improved yourself, have initiative, work well with others, and do your best to make your managers job easier. This doesn't require you to work overtime.

Apr 27, 20 12:05 pm  · 
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archanonymous

the specifics of Code's advice may be wrong but the sentiment is right. Don't want to be expendable? Then live and breathe architecture. Become a better sketcher, know more about materials, design, detailing, environmental impacts. Learn new productions software. Learn about specs, Learn about theory, marketing, etc... You don't have to work overtime but you can't plant your ass in front of the TV every night either.

Apr 27, 20 3:41 pm  · 
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archanonymous

And for many people, working on their professional projects more or extra is the best way to learn these things.

Apr 27, 20 3:43 pm  · 
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square.

live and breathe architecture

this, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with the profession.. it's the reason that if you go to a job site, the only one willing to work for free is the architect. an alternative theory: don't want to be expendable? then have some self-respect and cultivate other parts of your life, rather than looking desperate and spending all your personal time improving your "work skills."

Apr 27, 20 4:18 pm  · 
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archanonymous

I guess it depends what you want to get out of your career. Money and a decent day-to-day designing buildings that people use and hopefully enjoy? Or do you want to create groundbreaking, challenging, memorable and historic Architecture with a capital "A"?

Apr 27, 20 4:31 pm  · 
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square.

i don't see these as mutually exclusive. the former is great, but the irony is that the decent buildings in my city are both historic and memorable. most of the new ones are not (except for the ones i'm working on, of course....) that being said, a great, historic building can be designed with the use of a normal working day; it doesn't require slavish devotion .

Apr 27, 20 4:35 pm  · 
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archanonymous

I don't believe that. I look around my city at the great historic and modern architecture and its all by offices with strong devotion to the studio and the practice. Great architecture takes time. Lots of time. Lots of your time.

Apr 27, 20 4:40 pm  · 
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archanonymous

From Sullivan, Root, and Burnham through Frank Lloyd Wright, Mies, Corbu, Saarinen, whatever fucked up shit happened in the 70's and 80's all the way through OMA, Zaha, Snohetta, DS&R, Ito, Gehry, these are not places you work and have a relaxing personal life. They are places you give your all to the project and get out of it canonical and important buildings. I'm not saying that it is for everyone, but that's how it is.

Apr 27, 20 5:14 pm  · 
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Chad Miller

What you're failing to mention archanonymous is that of all the architects out there maybe 10% are creating building that have a recognized, positive impact on the people who use them. Maybe 2% of architects are creating memorable and historic architecture with a capital A. A look at those architects who are in that 2% their lives are filled with addiction, divorce, health issues,  and often various instances of financial ruin. With over 18 years in this profession I've learned that creating architecture that is visually pleasing and has a recognized, positive impact on society is doable in a 40 hour work week.

Apr 27, 20 5:15 pm  · 
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square.

^agreed. in your definition, archanonymous, great = icon. i define it differently... a hint of which is often what makes great cities such is not individual icons, but a cohesive sense of place which, as you would define, non-great buildings contribute the most to

Apr 27, 20 5:27 pm  · 
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archanonymous

Agreed, places are created by all the small projects together, not any one unique project. In Chad's example maybe the goal is to be in that 10% creating meaningful buildings AND work in a sane office? That seems reasonable to me.

Apr 27, 20 5:42 pm  · 
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Chad Miller

What we do is complicated. Hell, we even have a hard time defining what makes a good architect. In the end it's all about how you feel about your work.

Apr 28, 20 1:44 pm  · 
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geezertect

Get a better profession and do architecture as a hobby.


Apr 26, 20 10:12 pm  · 
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citizen

^ Good advice for most. Dilettantism gets a bad rap.

Apr 27, 20 1:16 am  · 
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thisisnotmyname

If you want to do architecting and don't have access to family money, marry or shack up with someone that earns enough to support the both of you.

Apr 27, 20 5:23 pm  · 
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Chad Miller

Or you know you could just practice architecture and develop as a person. Also don't suck at design.

Apr 28, 20 1:45 pm  · 
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Caliado

I'm graduating my part 2 (in the UK) in May...

Can't reccomend that, think I'm going to finally have to deliver on "I'll learn how to use Revit properly when I have time" though. Which should at least be useful in the future.

Just got to figure out the how to eat and have somewhere to live thing now.

Apr 27, 20 1:39 am  · 
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archi_dude

I'd say learn the ropes and then make it a side gig while you get a career doing something else. You'd keep your passion alive without being told that was part of your compensation. I switched to CM and it's so much better than drafting all day in an architecture office for an "okay" or ""fine" salary but the hours are LONG. However, what's been really eye opening is seeing my friends and family whose jobs have treated this fiasco as more of an extended vacation with some emails here and there. Theres nothing to lose to ask those people, what a starting salary would be and what experience would be needed. 

Apr 27, 20 8:25 am  · 
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Chad Miller

Don't do this. Architecture isn't a side gig, no career is.

Apr 27, 20 1:55 pm  · 
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atelier nobody

I survived '08 by moving into a niche specialty - spec. writing. Of course, the downside of a niche specialty is that it's hard getting back out of it when the recession is over.

Apr 27, 20 1:18 pm  · 
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This might be how I survive this one. How did this work out for you post '08 recession? Did you get out of spec writing, or were you stuck in it?

Apr 28, 20 11:41 am  · 
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atelier nobody

I was a spec writer from '08 to '14, then had 3 not great jobs before landing where I am now in '18. My current job does include spec. writing, but not exclusively - I also do QA/QC on drawings, help teams with detailing, and other "technical architect" stuff, and even get a few of my own projects to run. I probably could have moved on from spec writing sooner, but I was trying to stay with the same firm and looking for technical PA opportunities internally, which never happened.

Apr 28, 20 1:28 pm  · 
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Sounds like you've found a balance that works for you? When you transitioned into spec writing was it at a new job, or taking on the responsibility at a current job?

Apr 28, 20 1:39 pm  · 
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atelier nobody

It was a new job - the firm I was at previously was doing all retail/commercial, which really took the same hit as residential in the recession; the new firm was focused in education/healthcare/government.

As for my current job balance, yes, I'm quite happy and hope to stay where I am for the remainder of my career. (Of course, like every technical/production architect, I do sometimes wish people would take me more seriously as a designer, but that ship had already sailed a long time ago.)

Apr 28, 20 2:01 pm  · 
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[thumbs up] I'm under no illusion that I'm a "Designer" but I do like designing through details, etc. My firm has been subbing out specs to third-party consultants, but we've been trying to do more in-house so it might be a good transition if I can take more of this on. I've been pretty involved in specifications and it was one of the selling points when they hired me last year (they were looking to transition more of this in-house after all), so it makes sense if I can take more of this on and it might make me less expendable if it comes to that. I know I can produce a better product than the consultant we've been using. Their specs are terrible.

Apr 28, 20 3:30 pm  · 
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tduds

I survived the last recession by bartending, which I briefly parlayed into a nice gig designing restaurants when the recovery started.

Unfortunately this time the bars are harder hit than the architecture firms so I got nothing.

Apr 27, 20 1:54 pm  · 
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whistler

Work in an office that understands that there are economic cycles.  I personally have been through several cycles going back to the late 80's.  Always learn from previous employers but the best advice I got was from an early boss who had to let me go prior to a slow down in a three person office ( I was number three )  but he knew it was going to be a multi-month slow down and he said go look for work with firms who have government work and had a diversity of work from different sectors.  A) It's good to have different streams of income from different project sectors ie residential, government, schools, first nations.  B ) creates different project timelines and schedules ( ie some projects have a 6-12 month turn around while others have a 2-3 years). C) everyday is different as project variety creates variation in a daily activities.  This is all within a small office ( 4-6 people ) It's possible but being an office that only has one kind of project can be mind numbing and problematic when that one sector is slow or completely dies!

Apr 27, 20 3:54 pm  · 
1  · 
thisisnotmyname

^^this^^

Apr 27, 20 5:19 pm  · 
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Witty Banter

Some good and some bad advice in this thread.  The following comes from my experience working in mid-size firms (mid teens to mid twenties).

Have a good attitude.  First in, last out, is nonsense.  Work-life balance is a good thing and in a sane office your employer/project manager will respect this.  That being said, get your work done.  If that means coming in a little early or staying a little late do what you need to do.  That isn't unique to this profession.  If you're consistently needing to work long hours then something is wrong with you or your employer.  Fix it or find a new employer.  Communicate when your project team has a deadline but you just can't stay late that evening for whatever reason.  Don't be the person that slips out at 5:30 without saying a word when you know there is a deadline and others are staying until completion.  If you can't stay that's fine, but let someone know so they don't feel like you're hanging them out to dry.  Don't be a jerk.  Personal relationships matter.  They won't save your job if it's all you have going but they can be a tie breaker.

Be flexible.  This applies to your availability as well as your ability.  If you don't have an irreplaceable (and valuable) skill then be a generalist.  When a downturn hits and projects start speeding up or slowing down it helps to have flexible staff that can be moved from one project to another to fill staffing gaps.  If you're the person that refuses to learn BIM or only produces photorealistic renderings you may find yourself without anything to do.  If that's the case you're likely in line for the chopping block.  If you feel like you're being pigeonholed or have an interest in learning a different skill let someone know.  Often times there is a senior staff member that gets stuck doing all of the office's ________ that would rather hand off that responsibility to someone else.  They may be willing to mentor you if you make your interest known.  Make a conscious effort to be effective working within a project team (accepting a role even if it isn't glamorous) as well as independently.

Be reliable.  If you say you're going to do something then do it.  This applies to the advice above.  If you tell a colleague your want to learn _______, don't flake or brush it off when they take the time to teach you.  You may only get one shot.  That doesn't mean you have to be perfect your first attempt but you better make an effort.  Communicate proactively.  If something can't be completed in time to meet a deadline and its out of your control the time to tell your PM is not when it's due.  The time is as soon as you realize there is a potential conflict.  Also - proofread.  Please proofread.  We all make mistakes (a second set of eyes is always helpful for QA/QC) but your PM/PA shouldn't have to redline something multiple times.  In fact your PA/PM might even miss something when they're redlining.  If you notice a mistake - fix it, or at least bring it to someone's attention.  It's infuriating to see junior staff ignore blatant mistakes because no one specifically told them to fix it.  Be proactive.

There's no real secret here.  Developing skills takes time and effort.  You aren't going to watch a youtube video or read an ebook in your spare time and suddenly become a valuable professional.  Ask questions when time permits.  Think about what you're doing - and why you're doing it, regardless of how mundane the task may seem.

Apr 27, 20 6:26 pm  · 
1  · 
zonker

Very true - I'm the Revit guy and only very gradually over the years(10) moved into design. Its what I'm hired for. I learned design on the side so as not to int erfere with my "day Job" IOW, it's important to remember what we are hired for and self actualize on the side until we can leverage that new skill into actual assignments - trying to do something that we weren't hired for is the road to the lay off list

Apr 28, 20 12:28 am  · 
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Chad Miller

Trying to do something that wasn't assigned to you is the best way to get let go - I fixed that for you. Taking imitative to learn how to do something that is part of your profession is a great way to keep a position.

Apr 28, 20 1:30 pm  · 
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apkouv

Taking initiative - I fixed that for you.

Apr 28, 20 2:36 pm  · 
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Chad Miller

Nope you need to take imitative. Initiative helps though.

Apr 29, 20 1:20 pm  · 
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revolutionary poet

I just drink a lot.

Apr 27, 20 7:47 pm  · 
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OneLostArchitect

multiple streams of revenue...

Apr 27, 20 9:19 pm  · 
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Chad Miller

In a firm - yest. As a professional - no. Don't half ass something because you have too many irons in the fire. Full ass one thing - Ron Swanon, Parks and Rec

Apr 28, 20 1:46 pm  · 
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OneLostArchitect

I respectfully disagree. If I didn't spread my eggs around rather than keep them all in one basket... I'd be in a bad position right now.

Apr 28, 20 2:47 pm  · 
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Chad Miller

Fair enough. What did you do for multiple streams of revenue and how many hours a week did you work on each?

Apr 29, 20 11:22 am  · 
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Chad Miller

Still waiting OneLostArchitect.

Apr 29, 20 2:10 pm  · 
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OneLostArchitect

I’ve made multiple investments that make money passively.

Apr 29, 20 9:53 pm  · 
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Chad Miller

Ah, I was thinking you meant a 'side hustle'. The concept of passive income has always interested me - mostly because it seems that it's not actually that passive when the initial setup work and capital is taken into account. Still it must be rather rewarding for it to pay off. Nice job!

Apr 30, 20 10:11 am  · 
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OneLostArchitect

Thanks Chad, I used to do the side hustle thing and its nice and all, but I took a step back and realized that it was taking time away from everything I wanted to do. I will still do it from time to time if I need to help out a friend or something like that. I learned early on in this career that there isn't any money in it and I had to do other things to supplement. I've busted my ass but it is finally paying off. I'm not flying a Learjet or anything but my passive income surpasses my main gig income when I did have one, currently laid off and looking for work.

Apr 30, 20 10:29 am  · 
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randomised

Add some skills to your set that are hard to come by or annoying to most, maybe spec writing or something.

Apr 28, 20 8:16 am  · 
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I was lucky enough to still be finishing up school in the last one so that's how I survived it ... but I was also unlucky enough to be getting out of school and looking for work amid a really bad employment market where employers were reluctant to hire. When they did want to hire, they were inundated with over-qualified candidates. Standing out with that kind of competition was tough. 

For me though, it was never about what software you could use or how proficient you were in it. Rather, it was all about my background and specialties that I could bring to the firm. In other words, there wasn't a magic bullet ... you just had to be yourself and know and emphasize your strengths.

The plus side of breaking through and finding success as a recent grad in the early recovery ... a lot of my peers had left the profession so all the job opportunities for people with my experience 5 or so years later were really easy to find and pick and choose which firms you wanted to work for. This meant that I could find a firm without a toxic work culture pretty easily. Also meant that I could find a firm with a broad revenue stream so we haven't had to lay off anyone (yet?) and we are still quite busy.

Apr 28, 20 11:53 am  · 
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atelier nobody

I had a similar experience getting into the field in '95 after the '92-'93 recession.

Apr 28, 20 2:10 pm  · 
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Wood Guy

Going into the Great Recession, I had been a foreman building custom oceanfront homes for a residential design/build firm. I had been itching to move back into the office, and when our construction workload slowed down I switched over to design and construction project management. At the same time, the office laid off two architects. I never lost a day of work. The key, I believe, was that I was cross-trained.

I like drawing houses. It’s what I do for fun when I’m not doing it for work. But I could do many other things that made me indispensable to a small firm, while the architects only wanted to architect: I’m a designer but also did construction estimating and project management, expanded and streamlined our estimating and specifications systems, directed marketing efforts (from coordinating and styling photo shoots to writing website content), beefed up our safety program, went on “fishing expeditions”--sales calls for clients that were not well qualified, so my sales-genius boss could focus on the good leads--etc.. Specialists can make more money in a good economy, but generalists may be more valuable in a slow economy.

If you are not cross-trained now, that advice may not be helpful. But you can make yourself indispensable another ways. Be easy and fun to work with. Write about your expertise. Network like crazy, whether you enjoy it or not. Learn, learn, learn, and share what you learn.  

Apr 29, 20 1:01 pm  · 
1  · 
Chad Miller

Bringing in baked goods for the office helps as well. :)

Apr 30, 20 10:12 am  · 
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mightyaa

You can break into my niche; forensic architect.  I figure out what went wrong on buildings as well as construction litigation defect lawsuit support; expert witness stuff.  Since I deal with existing buildings, it doesn’t slow.  The big money litigation side usually happens 2-10 years after occupancy; otherwise, mother nature could care less about the economy and still does her thing.  Downside: Not much design.  Upside: Pays about 30% more than ‘normal architecture’, and you go out in the field a lot.  So if you like CA, this is similar.  Finding these positions can be difficult; most are engineering firms since architects gave up promoting technical expertise… so they are pretty crappy at marketing toward architects.  

Apr 30, 20 11:17 am  · 
2  · 
archanonymous

man this actually sounds awesome. Are you tied to a physical location/ market or do you do travel lots for projects? Are you in court all the time, or just giving written statements/ reports mostly?

Apr 30, 20 12:48 pm  · 
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mightyaa

How long you are in the field depends on the project size. Some I’ve spent a solid couple months out there, most are about a week. Some are overnights, most are regional. I’ve had a couple out of State. I’d say on any given project the field to report writing split is 30/70 for me (grey hair). Swap that for the younger guys who tend to gather the information for me to use in the report. So they’ll be out there all day versus I’ll show up to review what they are finding and hit a couple projects while I’m out. Very few get as far as depositions and court is rare; a lot of that is our clientele. We don’t do frivolous, so I’ve got lots of damage which is hard to rebut. So they settle. Most go like that; everyone agrees on the underlaying issues, and the fight is ‘who is to blame’. On defense, that is the report; example, my mason I’m defending provided weeps, but the landscaper buried the bottom of wall and the WRB sub did a bad bottom of wall termination. No one argues the rotten sill plate isn’t bad or repairs aren’t needed.

May 1, 20 9:44 am  · 
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Bench

I find this fascinating - is it a singular specialty that you concentrate on? Or can you split time in a firm, IE, this is just one service you or your office can offer. Im trying to imagine a scenario where you have some 'normal' architecture projects, and this is an additional niche specialty you do that isn't exactly promoted to clients, but provides an additional revenue stream.

Also - did this require additional education? Or are you just highly proficient in technical observation/etc?

May 1, 20 9:50 am  · 
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mightyaa

When I had my own firm, I did this and normal practice stuff; it was just another revenue stream. Training varies; I don’t have any special certifications. It kind of evolved out of HOA work and getting a reputation for being able to fix problem buildings. There are guys here with various degrees, doctorates, and certifications. Occasionally I’ll see a well known retired architect jump in; might be a good side gig for retirement aged architects. But even within this field, there are niches… Somehow I became the ‘fire guy’ (assemblies). Basically, architects can do well because we’re the only profession with a lot of crossover education. How you and I look at buildings are much different than a mechanical engineer, civil or structural or contractor. We’re simply better at standing back, looking at the whole, and forming a hypothesis of why the building has ‘that’ problem which 90% of the time is how all the various trades/professionals failed to interact or missed. It’s also why I’m pissed at the AIA who has made the focus ‘design’ and downplayed/denied technical expertise… now attorneys & insurance don’t look to architects as knowing how buildings go together… we ‘make it pretty’, engineers ‘make it work’. Argh…

May 1, 20 3:17 pm  · 
1  · 
flatroof

I've noticed anecdotally in my time the most boring work like renos, fitouts of corporate chains/offices with deep pockets tend to keep going when times are tough and the interest rate in borrowing money is close to 0%. Also AE/EA firms seem to keep afloat better than pure A.

Apr 30, 20 12:38 pm  · 
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zonker

Being agile and responsive, be good with Zoom presence. Host zoom meetings as a way o increase visibility. you are selling yourself, it like being a TV personality - is a ratings game

Apr 30, 20 12:39 pm  · 
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Dokuser

As a final year uni student, posts like these make me wonder if going into architectural practice is worth it.

Apr 30, 20 1:28 pm  · 
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Chad Miller

I think it was. I enjoy what I do and learn a lot each day. I think the key is to find a good firm with a culture you enjoy - that or create your own firm. I personally do not believe in the view that you have to work overtime to create good architecture.

Apr 30, 20 1:51 pm  · 
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Define what metric you're using to determine whether it is "worth it." Is it just about the money? Work-life balance? Working environment? Impact on people? Impact on the environment? Other?

Apr 30, 20 2:50 pm  · 
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Dokuser

I love architecture and it is, without a doubt, the only field I see myself pursuing in the future. I was just referring to overall job satisfaction/happiness. I guess that’s kind of a broad gesture though.

May 1, 20 1:58 am  · 
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midlander

job satisfaction goes up and down, but i think it's between 6-9 out of 10 about 90% of the time.

May 1, 20 2:12 am  · 
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square.

i wouldn't trade anything for the education, the degree is invaluable for how it teaches you to think. the job, less so, but as long as you're not swimming in excessive debt it's still worth it, especially because it's not hard to pivot to something else.

May 1, 20 9:21 am  · 
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Dokuser, I’d recommend being realistic with your expectations then. I’d venture a guess that most of the dissatisfaction you’re reading about is from disillusioned recent grads who thought they were going to be the capital D designer and ended up doing more production drafting. Or from older architects who thought that running their own firm would allow them more time for design, but then found out that running the business leaves little time to sketch out ideas or whatever. Of course there are exceptions, and you may be one of them ... but just be realistic with your expectations, and flexible with your career goals and you’ll probably be fine.

May 1, 20 10:00 am  · 
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Chad Miller

On a related note I did a lot of conceptual design in the first eight years of my career. Projects in the $3-$35 million dollar range. The thing was I pigeon holed and didn't realize I was missing out on the CA, specification, and proposal side of things. When the recession hit me 2010 I found that I had a some rather large holes in my skill sets - I was a good designer but couldn't manage a project on my own. While the goal may be doing design work keep in mind that being a well rounded architect with experience in all the phases and processes of a project is vitally important to be a good / great designer. Yeah the door hardware coordination sucks, and the toilet room details are boring, but you'll be better off for the experience.

May 1, 20 11:31 am  · 
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^ excellent post Chad. great perspective.

May 1, 20 11:34 am  · 
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archanonymous

Totally agree Chad. It also helps to be able to find enjoyment in working out those seemingly inconsequential issues... especially when you see the built project and it is awesome!

May 1, 20 11:48 am  · 
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zonker

You can't have holes in your skill set, in a recession, the most specialized, are the first to go and the last to be re-hired, if at all

May 1, 20 11:50 am  · 
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zonker

Speed and accuracy become even more important as budgets and schedules shrink - Clients PMs, PAs and co-workers become increasingly intolerant of errors and work that isn't done right away - when they say right away, that means drop everything and move on it, stat. People that get behind the 8 ball get let go

May 1, 20 1:53 pm  · 
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newguy

The majority of the advice you will receive in this thread can be distilled down to two basic premises:

  1. Increase your production
  2. Decrease your compensation

Shitty, right?  But this is fundamentally what recessions do.  When margins get tight, the only way for those who own production (the bosses) can stay afloat is by squeezing more productive output from their labor pool.  In return, that same labor pool is effectively given a pay cut, either directly by having their wages reduced/eliminated, or indirectly by having their hours increased / productivity demands increased without a corresponding increase in wages.  Recessions hurt workers because they are dependent on the health of their companies, while those same companies can always use their labor pool as a shield to absorb the impacts of the downturn.  Recessions discipline the surviving workforce by thrusting more people into the reserve army of labor, thus exerting downward pressure on those still employed and reducing wages.  Any gains made by labor are effectively wiped out.

Many industries (although probably not so much architecture due to the collaborative nature) will likely see working from home as a way of reducing office floor space and company overhead.  The result will be that their respective labor pools will now absorb many of the traditional costs associated with running a business (i.e, employees will now be paying rent for their home and their share of company workspace allowing corporations to lower their seat count, paying for the internet and basic supplies and software and hardware needs, maintaining the basic IT infrastructure work, etc etc etc).  I like to refer to this as the "uber-ization" of the workplace, where the corporation will own the productive output of its workforce without paying for the means required to generate that output.  I think this will be a major trend that will be spun as "innovation" on behalf of corporations; a sort of "gig-economy" ethos that will penetrate industries across the board.  Likewise, we'll probably see an uptick in white-collar contract workers so that corporations will not be on the hook for providing benefits.


Fun fun fun.

May 1, 20 4:03 pm  · 
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zonker

It's what we had to do in 08' - 12' , it;s either that or leave the profession

May 1, 20 4:30 pm  · 
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zonker

Many firms are moving to a remote gig worker type system anyway - this Covid depression, has hastened it much like the recession made it possible for small and med size firms to go to BIM in order to reduce staff back in 10'

May 1, 20 4:46 pm  · 
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zonker

then to top it off, if you are a "temp"/gig worker/1099, the firm you do work for won't sign your IDP

May 1, 20 4:57 pm  · 
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