Its fine, if you have a weak backbone in Canada you can get that sorted with our free healthcare.
Its not a handout if are paying into the system. Canadians are literally scared shitless to cross the boarder without travel health insurance, even for a daytrip.
archietechie - What's your issue with a state that cares for its people? Do you dislike migrants? I'm sure you or your family were migrants at one point.
I don't understand how you can support a orange oompa loompa that's openly racist and sexist at all.
I haven't completely read everything above so forgive me if I'm out of context.
I'm fighting on FB today with someone who says it's not right to call all trump voters racists. I disagree. Racism is a sharp, bright line that cannot be crossed. If you voted for someone who had every public media opportunity to *strongly* disavow the endorsement of the KKK, the waving of the confederate flag at his rallies, and the support of pepe the frog memes but chose not to do so, then you are aligning yourself with a racist and are thus racist yourself.
I won't pussy-foot around this language. If you voted for trump then you are OK with suspecting someone of not really being an American because they have a Mexican-sounding name. That is racist. Own it.
Right now there is an effort to try to normalize Trump and make him seem not as radical as he really is. We see it for the complete BULLSHIT that it is.
@archiwutm8 I never said I had an issue with migrants, my longstanding issue is with ILLEGAL migrants i.e. not registered; not paying taxes; placing stress on an already volatile infrastructure etc.
You need to catch up on this thread if you're going to make a leap in logic like that, frankly you're embarrassing yourself.
@z1111 Do you invite squatters into your home? Can they reach into your fridge without your permission? If not, you're a hypocrite.
jla-x, if Wikileaks if your benchmark of truth, I am sure wikipedia is your benchmark for knowledge. If you had even a bit of intellect, you would realize that CNN is NOT a liberal channel. They blow which way the wind blows.
I agree with Donna, anyone that supports Dump or is OK with him taking office is a racist tool. And that includes you, jla-x, closeted trump supporter.
^ I understand that this will be a difficult concept for you to grasp, but give it a try.
Trump did not win the popular vote. There is no mandate for the radical immigration policy you are proposing. Over half this country does not have your view and fear of immigrants. It is our *home* too.
Trump is a demagogue who has leveraged income disparity by demonizing *the other* for his own pursuit of wealth and power.
sod, you're a moron and a closet racist. I do not support trump in any way, nor did I support Clinton. You allowed a shit candidate to run on the dnc ticket. It's your fault trump won. Anyone else could have beat her.
And you didn't want 3rd party candidates to be in debates. They would have likely drawn undecided/fu/protest of status quo votes away from trump. You perpetuated the narrative that people had to vote for one of the two. And they did. Good job
@ Zee - Nice strawman there. Seriously, let's stop tiptoeing the issue because I don't give a damn whether you and the others like/dislike the immigrants or not. Do you think the 11million illegal immigrants SHOULD be above the law? Again, I reiterate I don't have anything against migrants but rather ILLEGAL migrants. Because from what I'm understanding, you seem to want to let that slide.
Funny, your second para seems to be describing HilLiary, again with her list of scandals.
And again, the only reason why trump had my vote is because bernie was out of the running.
jla-x, stop digging your own grave, and stop giving excuses for not going out to vote, you petulant 5-year old. As i said, say what you will and drown yourself in your PBR. As for you, you didnt even vote for the 3rd party candidates, so what do you care if they were in the debates or not. Fucking joker.
Architechie, your facist, fascist, nationalist Trump voters would have NEVER voted Bernie in. Or are you also looking for a reason to not having voted?
^ Hey fuckwit, do you have problems reading too? Hint: Refer to last para of previous post.
If there's any lesson to be learnt during this election, it is to never insult the voters, least of all, accuse them of being "xenophobes/racist", for your own gains, when they aren't.
Edit: That chart doesn't prove shit when the issues aren't just with racism but with a myriad of other factors as well. All the libtards racial harmony bs agenda clearly got to the minorities though.
Your making of a false equivalency between Hillary and Trump is getting risible.
I am 65 and there has never in my life time been a clearer choice for president. This was a choice between sanity and insanity.
If someone voted for Trump simply because they are a greedy fuck who could care less about anything but themselves and then makes a pathetic rationalization about being worried about the influx of immigrants or some shit so they don't have to say they are just a greedy fuck who doesn't care about anything but themselves, ok, I get it.
If only one of two candidates can win and one is a dedicated public servant and the other is an odious hairball and you vote for a candidate that can not possibly win you do not get to make an argument that you voted on principal.
It is just that simple.
I do not think you are a bad person, but in my opinion, you sure fucked that up.
Calling Trump supporters racists is what lost the Democrats the election. Can't you see that? Not only is it inaccurate, it is as ideologically narrow as the Tea Party. You are becoming your own worst enemy.
I don't know about all of you individuals, but the Democratic party is really going to have to assess why large numbers of people in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Michigan, people who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012, decided to vote Trump. That's going to take some real soul searching, and it goes well beyond calling half the country racists.
Oh god, the liberal guilt that comes after the tears. The sweet sweet liberal tears.
This is seriously the best part of this whole thing. These fucking over-emotional men-children who act like avery minor disagreement is the effing apocalypse finally got bitch slapped on a national level and you don’t know what to do now, other than blame everyone else for your fucking mistakes.
This is so good drinking your tears morons.
Please say it with me: SAVIOR OF THE WESTERN WORLD, GOD EMEPEROR: DONALD TRUMP.
There, and be grateful we saved your asses from an impending nuclear holocaust (a real one). You got at least 8 years to reflect on this and uncuck yourselves.
won and done, I surely hope all the people in PA, OH, WI and MI get played for fools yet again and realize that voting in a NY elite fuckup will never fix any of their issues. Trump supporters are racist, undeducated toolbags that are afraid the "foreigners" have taken their jobs.
Guess what , under Trump their jobs, whatever is left of it, will go to foreign lands much faster. Then see who starts weeping about outsourcing again.
Cadomestique, plug ur verbal diarrhea before draining the swamp. Fuck off.
You clearly think that Clinton will be the "dedicated public servant " you'd like to imagine her to be and never have you been more wrong. You seriously need to look her up beyond the racial rhetoric.
You're banking on an individual that: used her private email for communications on a national level; was caught funding ISIS; was linked to a political assassination in Honduras; accepted "donations" from high profile individuals through the a "charity" foundation that which funded her daughter's wedding as a cherry on top.
I'm only picking between the lesser of the 2 evils.
"You're banking on an individual that: used her private email for communications on a national level; was caught funding ISIS; was linked to a political assassination in Honduras; accepted "donations" from high profile individuals through the a "charity" foundation that which funded her daughter's wedding as a cherry on top."
All of these are unproven. Go play with your flab.
I did not say Hillary will be a dedicated public servant. I am saying she has been, is now, and will be in the future, a dedicated public servant. I voted for her and voted against Trump.
Your inability to see the real deal and to be taken in by such an obvious con man is both troubling and astounding.
Russia hacked the DNC and conducted a disinformation campaign in a successful effort to influence the election in favor of Trump. How could you not be aware of this?
Actually I did vote. I voted for Johnson and voted on all local issues which I actually read quite a bit about...and I don't drink PBR. It's shit. As for Good old Gary...not the brightest bulb but wanted to get him to 5% to get the libertarian party funding...his position on immigration and most civil liberties was farther left than even Bernie. Agree with 60% of his policies and about 40% of bernies. Not an ideologue.
And sod, according to your own chart....are you saying that 33% of Latino men and 13% of black men are racist against themselves? And are the 52% of white women and 25% of Latino women sexist against themselves? Seems a more likely narrative is that they just can't stand Hillary.
Zee - "I did not say Hillary will be a dedicated public servant. I am saying she has been, is now, and will be in the future, a dedicated public servant." lolwut?
Doc - "...you lazy redneck." And the irony's lost in you. Too many to post but I'll entertain the case for her foundation:
According to your own chart he took about a third of the minority vote (excluding blacks)...and had a larger white female vote than Hillary...black people also voted at very low numbers according to polls...
Look, I hate trump as much as you, but he is an inevitable result of hillarys shitty campaign strategy and corruption. No one to blame but the dnc. Bernie surely would have beat him
Don't you know any Trump supporters? It seems like you either do not know any, or you are just very invested in maintaining some naive stereotypes. Do you really think that Trump supporters are all anti-Jewish? Have you paid no attention to how much conservative Republicans work to demonstrate loyalty to Israel? Did you ignore when Donald Trump spoke at AIPAC?
Yeah, you guys can keep claiming that racism didn't play a huge part in this election, or in the wholesale rejection of Obama's presidency by many white people, but you'd be, and are, wrong.
The USA is a deeply racist country. Deeply, dangerously, appallingly racist. This election has brought me to terms with that, and with my own embarrassing complicity of not understanding just how bad it is for others.
I DGAF if it hurts your feelings: voting for trump - or for a 3rd party knowing the promise of a trump presidency - was a vote for racism to take a stronger hold in this country than it has already. That is on your conscience.
Good grief, the republicans have been after the Clintons for 30 years.
Did you read any of that?
Nothing, repeat nothing has been found.
You have unfortunately bought into the bullshit that because an opposition party is intentionally looking for shit there must be ipso facto something there.
Donna, it may have for some...but not for most. And why is voting 3rd party racist? I just don't understand that logic. Jill Stein and Johnson were both far far more progressive than Clinton....
The USA is a deeply racist country. Deeply, dangerously, appallingly racist. This election has brought me to terms with that, and with my own embarrassing complicity of not understanding just how bad it is for others.
Donna, if you want to take this argument to its natural conclusion, you could say that everyone is racist - Trump voters, Clinton voters, whites, blacks, hispanics, you, and me. While on some level true, it's incredibly reductive. Yes, race played a role in Trump's win, but it was bigger than that.
How about this? I will try to better acknowledge the racism that went into the rise of Trump, if you will ask yourself honestly what are the conditions that brought about the racism that underlies Trump's support.
So Donna, I agree. But here's the deal this has been a really really hard election on me personally. My whole family, it seems voted for trump or at least not for Clinton while I was a strong supporter. So now I have to put up with what has turned into some pretty obnoxious gloating posting all these articles about how out of touch liberal elites are, How they are sick of getting called racist, how no one has paid attention to the people in their communities. You are not wrong but the approach is.
People need to learn about what it means to be biased. My friends and family are certainly not racist or sexist but they most certainly have racial and gender bias that they refuse to admit.
To gain the ability to confront your own bias is an incredibly astounding accomplishment for most humans because quite frankly it goes against human nature. our bias, as passed to use through the institutions of our society are really what made human life possible. allowed us to pass along knowledge, to survive and to thrive without a in-depth understanding of every nuance of the world.
I like same old doctors "All Trump supporters are not racists, but all racists are Trump supporters." So true. But it is also true that being complicit in forwarding the agenda of actual racists is a serious problem. But calling people racist because they refuse to confront their own bias is what helped stoke the anger that fueled the populist message.
the one other factor that I think contributes to this election is nostalgia. You just can;t get around it. It is again human nature to remember the past more fondly then we can imagine the future. Global progress has accelerated and this emotion grows stronger the fast change happens.
And Ii think that is the real outcome of this election. The USA will be less of a global leader as a result. We will be more protectionist. More nostalgic. and the rest of the world will pass us by. America will be less great. But still pretty great, just as it always was.
Also, let's talk about sexism as an institutional bias. It is far far larger than any other bias a human can have. It has existed from literally the beginning of time and spanned every race culture and creed to some extent. It is huge. Everyone of us has some kind of gender bias. Period. Even Women. Even Donna. But we can take actions that account for that bias. We can choose to act against our bias. This election just drove home for me how hard it is for people to do that. to admit to themselves that they are biased and force themselves to counteract that bias.
Lets first assume that we are all well aware of the ugly legacy of racism in the US and we are all offended by Trump's racist statements.
What I don't understand is how we can claim to see an effect in the poll numbers. Wouldn't we have seen more a dip in the share received by the first black president than in the election of a white woman? Obama was on par with other popular Democratic Presidents. Hillary underperformed slightly.
All in all, some of us will lose our healthcare, some of us will never be able to get a green card after 10+ years of working here, some of us unfortunate ones living in the red states will face huge discrimination walking up and down the streets again.
Make absolutely no mistake, the next 8 years will result in a thorough dismantling of Obama's legacy, which includes job growth and healthcare, and will probably result in a massive recession like 2008. Then we will wake up and try to fix shit again. Till then, keep discussing what went wrong, not acknowledging that the real reason was, jonathon says, protectionism (which includes racism) and a hankering for the past.
The result will be that the US will become more self centered which is not necessarily a bad thing. We have spread ourselves too thin around the world and we need to stay the fuck out of every foreign conflict. The race debate will probably go on for a while...but that too is good. His trade policies are actually very sensible imo. It's about the only thing I agree with him on. We may possibly come to a peaceful resolution in Syria via his bromance with Vlad. Hopefully. Along the way he may grab a cooch or two and say some inflammatory and offensive shit, but we will all survive and get a redo in 4 years...where his second term campaign will be impossible to treat the same way as his first and he'll probably lose....life goes on.
Yea I agree. It's not that bad. But I can say that cause I'm a white male. It has a very different effect even if emotional on women, people of different genders, people of different races. And really us saying it's not that bad is the perpetuation of that exact institutional bias.
It has a very different effect even if emotional on women, people of different genders, people of different races.
I actually agree with this and think it was the hardest thing coming out of the Trump win. When my daughter asked me who won the election and I said Trump, she was disappointed that we were not going to have our first "girl" president - that hurt. Not a Clinton fan, but that hurt. I do hope that our leaders, whoever they may be, can inspire us to be proud, strong, and confident in our gender, race, identity, and beliefs.
Thump the Trump
^ Yeah, I should totally be proud of relying on the state for handouts/welfare/healthcare, kay.
Just curious, how do you get around without a backbone?
My point above stands correct.
Its fine, if you have a weak backbone in Canada you can get that sorted with our free healthcare.
Its not a handout if are paying into the system. Canadians are literally scared shitless to cross the boarder without travel health insurance, even for a daytrip.
archietechie - What's your issue with a state that cares for its people? Do you dislike migrants? I'm sure you or your family were migrants at one point.
I don't understand how you can support a orange oompa loompa that's openly racist and sexist at all.
I haven't completely read everything above so forgive me if I'm out of context.
I'm fighting on FB today with someone who says it's not right to call all trump voters racists. I disagree. Racism is a sharp, bright line that cannot be crossed. If you voted for someone who had every public media opportunity to *strongly* disavow the endorsement of the KKK, the waving of the confederate flag at his rallies, and the support of pepe the frog memes but chose not to do so, then you are aligning yourself with a racist and are thus racist yourself.
I won't pussy-foot around this language. If you voted for trump then you are OK with suspecting someone of not really being an American because they have a Mexican-sounding name. That is racist. Own it.
^A lack of empathy.
edit was referring to archiwutm8.
Right now there is an effort to try to normalize Trump and make him seem not as radical as he really is. We see it for the complete BULLSHIT that it is.
@archiwutm8
I never said I had an issue with migrants, my longstanding issue is with ILLEGAL migrants i.e. not registered; not paying taxes; placing stress on an already volatile infrastructure etc.
You need to catch up on this thread if you're going to make a leap in logic like that, frankly you're embarrassing yourself.
@z1111
Do you invite squatters into your home? Can they reach into your fridge without your permission? If not, you're a hypocrite.
jla-x, if Wikileaks if your benchmark of truth, I am sure wikipedia is your benchmark for knowledge. If you had even a bit of intellect, you would realize that CNN is NOT a liberal channel. They blow which way the wind blows.
I agree with Donna, anyone that supports Dump or is OK with him taking office is a racist tool. And that includes you, jla-x, closeted trump supporter.
^ I understand that this will be a difficult concept for you to grasp, but give it a try.
Trump did not win the popular vote. There is no mandate for the radical immigration policy you are proposing. Over half this country does not have your view and fear of immigrants. It is our *home* too.
Trump is a demagogue who has leveraged income disparity by demonizing *the other* for his own pursuit of wealth and power.
You and his supporters are fools.
sod, you're a moron and a closet racist. I do not support trump in any way, nor did I support Clinton. You allowed a shit candidate to run on the dnc ticket. It's your fault trump won. Anyone else could have beat her.
https://www.google.com/amp/observer.com/2016/11/new-dnc-emails-expose-more-dnc-media-clinton-campaign-collusion/amp/?client=safari
And you didn't want 3rd party candidates to be in debates. They would have likely drawn undecided/fu/protest of status quo votes away from trump. You perpetuated the narrative that people had to vote for one of the two. And they did. Good job
@ Zee - Nice strawman there. Seriously, let's stop tiptoeing the issue because I don't give a damn whether you and the others like/dislike the immigrants or not. Do you think the 11million illegal immigrants SHOULD be above the law? Again, I reiterate I don't have anything against migrants but rather ILLEGAL migrants. Because from what I'm understanding, you seem to want to let that slide.
Funny, your second para seems to be describing HilLiary, again with her list of scandals.
And again, the only reason why trump had my vote is because bernie was out of the running.
jla-x, stop digging your own grave, and stop giving excuses for not going out to vote, you petulant 5-year old. As i said, say what you will and drown yourself in your PBR. As for you, you didnt even vote for the 3rd party candidates, so what do you care if they were in the debates or not. Fucking joker.
Architechie, your facist, fascist, nationalist Trump voters would have NEVER voted Bernie in. Or are you also looking for a reason to not having voted?
As for racism, I think you need to learn the definition of what it means - it is usually against a certain minority, not majority, you numbnut.
But in the meantime look at this, and remember that all of us minorities are giving this chart a solid, good look.
^ Hey fuckwit, do you have problems reading too? Hint: Refer to last para of previous post.
If there's any lesson to be learnt during this election, it is to never insult the voters, least of all, accuse them of being "xenophobes/racist", for your own gains, when they aren't.
Edit: That chart doesn't prove shit when the issues aren't just with racism but with a myriad of other factors as well. All the libtards racial harmony bs agenda clearly got to the minorities though.
Your making of a false equivalency between Hillary and Trump is getting risible.
I am 65 and there has never in my life time been a clearer choice for president. This was a choice between sanity and insanity.
If someone voted for Trump simply because they are a greedy fuck who could care less about anything but themselves and then makes a pathetic rationalization about being worried about the influx of immigrants or some shit so they don't have to say they are just a greedy fuck who doesn't care about anything but themselves, ok, I get it.
If only one of two candidates can win and one is a dedicated public servant and the other is an odious hairball and you vote for a candidate that can not possibly win you do not get to make an argument that you voted on principal.
It is just that simple.
I do not think you are a bad person, but in my opinion, you sure fucked that up.
Calling Trump supporters racists is what lost the Democrats the election. Can't you see that? Not only is it inaccurate, it is as ideologically narrow as the Tea Party. You are becoming your own worst enemy.
I don't know about all of you individuals, but the Democratic party is really going to have to assess why large numbers of people in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Michigan, people who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012, decided to vote Trump. That's going to take some real soul searching, and it goes well beyond calling half the country racists.
Oh god, the liberal guilt that comes after the tears. The sweet sweet liberal tears.
This is seriously the best part of this whole thing. These fucking over-emotional men-children who act like avery minor disagreement is the effing apocalypse finally got bitch slapped on a national level and you don’t know what to do now, other than blame everyone else for your fucking mistakes.
This is so good drinking your tears morons.
Please say it with me: SAVIOR OF THE WESTERN WORLD, GOD EMEPEROR: DONALD TRUMP.
There, and be grateful we saved your asses from an impending nuclear holocaust (a real one). You got at least 8 years to reflect on this and uncuck yourselves.
Your are welcomed. Lets start to drain the swamp
won and done, I surely hope all the people in PA, OH, WI and MI get played for fools yet again and realize that voting in a NY elite fuckup will never fix any of their issues. Trump supporters are racist, undeducated toolbags that are afraid the "foreigners" have taken their jobs.
Guess what , under Trump their jobs, whatever is left of it, will go to foreign lands much faster. Then see who starts weeping about outsourcing again.
Cadomestique, plug ur verbal diarrhea before draining the swamp. Fuck off.
A completely delusional rant.
Hillary won the popular vote by the way
One last thing i strongly believe in: All Trump supporters are not racists, but all racists are Trump supporters.
Choose which side you are on.
"Please say it with me: SAVIOR OF THE WESTERN WORLD, GOD EMEPEROR: DONALD TRUMP."
this. is. fascism.
"but all racists are Trump supporters." Eric Holder is a Trump supporter?
Ok Zee, I see the problem here now.
You clearly think that Clinton will be the "dedicated public servant " you'd like to imagine her to be and never have you been more wrong. You seriously need to look her up beyond the racial rhetoric.
You're banking on an individual that: used her private email for communications on a national level; was caught funding ISIS; was linked to a political assassination in Honduras; accepted "donations" from high profile individuals through the a "charity" foundation that which funded her daughter's wedding as a cherry on top.
I'm only picking between the lesser of the 2 evils.
"You're banking on an individual that: used her private email for communications on a national level; was caught funding ISIS; was linked to a political assassination in Honduras; accepted "donations" from high profile individuals through the a "charity" foundation that which funded her daughter's wedding as a cherry on top."
All of these are unproven. Go play with your flab.
^ I hear denial is a good depression management tool too!
Proof please
^ Come now, don't be lazy, it's all out there (Not just wikileaks) or you can stay uneducated. I'm really fine with either.
I did not say Hillary will be a dedicated public servant. I am saying she has been, is now, and will be in the future, a dedicated public servant. I voted for her and voted against Trump.
Your inability to see the real deal and to be taken in by such an obvious con man is both troubling and astounding.
Russia hacked the DNC and conducted a disinformation campaign in a successful effort to influence the election in favor of Trump. How could you not be aware of this?
Ok, please post it here for us to see, you lazy redneck.
Actually I did vote. I voted for Johnson and voted on all local issues which I actually read quite a bit about...and I don't drink PBR. It's shit. As for Good old Gary...not the brightest bulb but wanted to get him to 5% to get the libertarian party funding...his position on immigration and most civil liberties was farther left than even Bernie. Agree with 60% of his policies and about 40% of bernies. Not an ideologue.
And sod, according to your own chart....are you saying that 33% of Latino men and 13% of black men are racist against themselves? And are the 52% of white women and 25% of Latino women sexist against themselves? Seems a more likely narrative is that they just can't stand Hillary.
Zee - "I did not say Hillary will be a dedicated public servant. I am saying she has been, is now, and will be in the future, a dedicated public servant." lolwut?
Doc - "...you lazy redneck." And the irony's lost in you. Too many to post but I'll entertain the case for her foundation:
- http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/white-house-considering-pardon-hillary-clinton/
- http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/09/exclusive-experts-question-if-clinton-foundation-will-survive/
- http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/01/fbi-releases-clinton-foundation-investigation-records/
- http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/tracking-the-clinton-controversies-from-whitewater-to-benghazi/396182/
- http://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/11/07/mr-president-its-the-corruption-not-sexism-that-is-clintons-problem/#1b90c3437390
- http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/emails-show-intersection-of-clinton-foundation-state-paid-speeches/article/2603780
- http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/clinton-foundation-scandal/
- http://goo.gl/2yVTr8 (Bonus)
According to your own chart he took about a third of the minority vote (excluding blacks)...and had a larger white female vote than Hillary...black people also voted at very low numbers according to polls...
Look, I hate trump as much as you, but he is an inevitable result of hillarys shitty campaign strategy and corruption. No one to blame but the dnc. Bernie surely would have beat him
sameolddoctor,
Don't you know any Trump supporters? It seems like you either do not know any, or you are just very invested in maintaining some naive stereotypes. Do you really think that Trump supporters are all anti-Jewish? Have you paid no attention to how much conservative Republicans work to demonstrate loyalty to Israel? Did you ignore when Donald Trump spoke at AIPAC?
Yeah, you guys can keep claiming that racism didn't play a huge part in this election, or in the wholesale rejection of Obama's presidency by many white people, but you'd be, and are, wrong.
The USA is a deeply racist country. Deeply, dangerously, appallingly racist. This election has brought me to terms with that, and with my own embarrassing complicity of not understanding just how bad it is for others.
I DGAF if it hurts your feelings: voting for trump - or for a 3rd party knowing the promise of a trump presidency - was a vote for racism to take a stronger hold in this country than it has already. That is on your conscience.
Good grief, the republicans have been after the Clintons for 30 years.
Did you read any of that?
Nothing, repeat nothing has been found.
You have unfortunately bought into the bullshit that because an opposition party is intentionally looking for shit there must be ipso facto something there.
This is all innuendo and you bought it.
You got conned, bamboozled, and taken for a ride.
Seriously, you need to wake up.
Donna, it may have for some...but not for most. And why is voting 3rd party racist? I just don't understand that logic. Jill Stein and Johnson were both far far more progressive than Clinton....
The USA is a deeply racist country. Deeply, dangerously, appallingly racist. This election has brought me to terms with that, and with my own embarrassing complicity of not understanding just how bad it is for others.
Donna, if you want to take this argument to its natural conclusion, you could say that everyone is racist - Trump voters, Clinton voters, whites, blacks, hispanics, you, and me. While on some level true, it's incredibly reductive. Yes, race played a role in Trump's win, but it was bigger than that.
How about this? I will try to better acknowledge the racism that went into the rise of Trump, if you will ask yourself honestly what are the conditions that brought about the racism that underlies Trump's support.
So Donna, I agree. But here's the deal this has been a really really hard election on me personally. My whole family, it seems voted for trump or at least not for Clinton while I was a strong supporter. So now I have to put up with what has turned into some pretty obnoxious gloating posting all these articles about how out of touch liberal elites are, How they are sick of getting called racist, how no one has paid attention to the people in their communities. You are not wrong but the approach is.
People need to learn about what it means to be biased. My friends and family are certainly not racist or sexist but they most certainly have racial and gender bias that they refuse to admit.
To gain the ability to confront your own bias is an incredibly astounding accomplishment for most humans because quite frankly it goes against human nature. our bias, as passed to use through the institutions of our society are really what made human life possible. allowed us to pass along knowledge, to survive and to thrive without a in-depth understanding of every nuance of the world.
I like same old doctors "All Trump supporters are not racists, but all racists are Trump supporters." So true. But it is also true that being complicit in forwarding the agenda of actual racists is a serious problem. But calling people racist because they refuse to confront their own bias is what helped stoke the anger that fueled the populist message.
the one other factor that I think contributes to this election is nostalgia. You just can;t get around it. It is again human nature to remember the past more fondly then we can imagine the future. Global progress has accelerated and this emotion grows stronger the fast change happens.
And Ii think that is the real outcome of this election. The USA will be less of a global leader as a result. We will be more protectionist. More nostalgic. and the rest of the world will pass us by. America will be less great. But still pretty great, just as it always was.
Also, let's talk about sexism as an institutional bias. It is far far larger than any other bias a human can have. It has existed from literally the beginning of time and spanned every race culture and creed to some extent. It is huge. Everyone of us has some kind of gender bias. Period. Even Women. Even Donna. But we can take actions that account for that bias. We can choose to act against our bias. This election just drove home for me how hard it is for people to do that. to admit to themselves that they are biased and force themselves to counteract that bias.
Lets first assume that we are all well aware of the ugly legacy of racism in the US and we are all offended by Trump's racist statements.
What I don't understand is how we can claim to see an effect in the poll numbers. Wouldn't we have seen more a dip in the share received by the first black president than in the election of a white woman? Obama was on par with other popular Democratic Presidents. Hillary underperformed slightly.
All in all, some of us will lose our healthcare, some of us will never be able to get a green card after 10+ years of working here, some of us unfortunate ones living in the red states will face huge discrimination walking up and down the streets again.
Make absolutely no mistake, the next 8 years will result in a thorough dismantling of Obama's legacy, which includes job growth and healthcare, and will probably result in a massive recession like 2008. Then we will wake up and try to fix shit again. Till then, keep discussing what went wrong, not acknowledging that the real reason was, jonathon says, protectionism (which includes racism) and a hankering for the past.
The result will be that the US will become more self centered which is not necessarily a bad thing. We have spread ourselves too thin around the world and we need to stay the fuck out of every foreign conflict. The race debate will probably go on for a while...but that too is good. His trade policies are actually very sensible imo. It's about the only thing I agree with him on. We may possibly come to a peaceful resolution in Syria via his bromance with Vlad. Hopefully. Along the way he may grab a cooch or two and say some inflammatory and offensive shit, but we will all survive and get a redo in 4 years...where his second term campaign will be impossible to treat the same way as his first and he'll probably lose....life goes on.
Yea I agree. It's not that bad. But I can say that cause I'm a white male. It has a very different effect even if emotional on women, people of different genders, people of different races. And really us saying it's not that bad is the perpetuation of that exact institutional bias.
Just trying to be positive :)
It is very admirable to stay positive during such a depressing conversation.
It has a very different effect even if emotional on women, people of different genders, people of different races.
I actually agree with this and think it was the hardest thing coming out of the Trump win. When my daughter asked me who won the election and I said Trump, she was disappointed that we were not going to have our first "girl" president - that hurt. Not a Clinton fan, but that hurt. I do hope that our leaders, whoever they may be, can inspire us to be proud, strong, and confident in our gender, race, identity, and beliefs.
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