Hmmm. Let's see. What happened in 1848 that upset right wingers and led to them organizing a successful backlash? What about 1970?
Feb 24, 16 1:20 pm ·
·
gwharton,
For architects, the whining began in 1836 beginning with the formation of the American Institution of Architects when was the predecessor to the American Institute of Architects. The prior, ran into financial problems and then the later was formed a little later.
Arguably, the whining may have technically began a few years earlier during a regional or national recession in the 1820s and 1830s.
1939 was when ww2 started. hitler reference/godwin's law invoked
1861 was the start of the civil war. because slavery.
1848, people's spring, i don't see the connection to trump
1970, pinochet used violent revolt to overthrow a democratically elected president because that's what capitalists do when they don't get their way.
1836, remember the alamo. edited per RB's comment above, i guess 1836 and 1822 are not about texas.
1822, texas declared independence from spain
just thought i would help. obviously the "historical illiterates" comment implied some of us are too slow to try to understand what the others are saying.
i didn't list who declared what date gwharton. i figured you could scroll up, but if you're having trouble:
1939 - from gwharton's comment above, "LOL. For the lefties, it will always be 1939." was when ww2 started. hitler reference/godwin's law invoked. hitler reference was of course mile's post above gwharton's post.
1861 - from beta above "For the righties, every day is 1861." was the start of the civil war. because slavery.
1848, - from gwharton above. people's spring, i don't see the connection to trump
1970, - gwharton's reference to the election of Salvador Allende as president of chile. pinochet used violent revolt to overthrow a democratically elected president because that's what capitalists do when they don't get their way.
1836, from RB above. he says it has something to do with the aia. i have no idea what he's talking about, which is typical
1822, i guess marc can explain why he chose this year, if not related to texas's independence.
our lack of literacy of historic events can start to be clarified now.
since we've started to work out our dates, perhaps we can have a normal conversation where we simply call each other 'hitler' or 'racist' or whatever else is on our mind without trying to obfuscate our intent behind some wikipedia page.
Feb 24, 16 1:53 pm ·
·
gwharton,
1836 was when they were creating the institution but when they ran into money problems, they didn't have much choice. They then attempt the process again and now we have the AIA but as you should know even the most right wing architects aren't always that good at running a sustainable business until they crash & burn a business or organization at least once.
we could say the anonymous street artist in london (who you did give credit to in your original post) was the first to invoke godwin's law if you want. gwharton still gets credit for attribution of 'it's always 1939' to 'the lefties.'
Feb 24, 16 2:01 pm ·
·
curtkram,
In 1836, the first incarnation of the AIA was created. This inherently lead to the movement that formed the AIA we know today and was instrumental to the creation of the architectural licensing. They were whining then and they are whining today. Only difference maybe what they are whining about but there is still some of the same old whining even after 180 years.
There is still the same old whining about money. Whining about competing with those who are not academically trained such as the architect-builders of the day.
i'm pretty sure the conversation is that trump is a fascist with racist tendencies like hitler. gwharton blames 'lefties' basically for invoking godwin's law, while beta reinforces the position by claiming 'righties' tend to be racist.
i believe gwharton wanted to distance himself from the racist overtones of the dates presented by bringing in some kind of populist uprising into the conversation. obviously trump is not a populist, so hard to tell how it relates. maybe gwharton thinks trump is a populist. i don't know. i'm pretty sure his comment was a couple dates in response to a couple dates in a way that suggest whatever trump is trying to do is acceptable behavior.
you're talking about the aia. not particularly racist (though the case could be made if that's your intent?). not much of a populist movement. just trying to get your post count up?
Feb 24, 16 2:11 pm ·
·
curtkram,
I was trying to keep a little bit of architecture relevancy to the thread. There was certainly a period of time where the AIA and the architecture profession could be described as having a little more 'racism' going on but that kind of is passe even with the current politics.
Trump is a celebrity. The traditional measures of what makes a person a populist or non-populist doesn't apply. He can be the most hated person and yet be the most populist because he is a celebrity which is a GOD in American popTV/celebrity-idolizing culture.
I would vote for neither the Republican or Democrat candidate if none of them are viable. I am not sure I would want Mr. Trump as President.
Are you kidding? Every plumber and electrician I know loves the guy, and if appearing on reality television doesn't de facto make you a populist, I don't know what does.
Feb 24, 16 2:26 pm ·
·
Donald Trump isn't a populist. He is a CELEBRITY which is basically a GOD in our celebrity idol-worshipping culture that permeates the American culture and way of life.
you may be right won and done. hard for me to understand how someone like that could say 'he's a trust fund baby just like me.' but then, there are some things i just don't understand.
Feb 24, 16 2:48 pm ·
·
If I had the money he had to start, I wouldn't have any issue getting into architecture schools anywhere in the U.S.
1822- Denmark Vecsey and 34 freed slaves were executed by hanging for conspiring to take over Charleston NC to prevent slave trade based on bodies and goods. In addition to the hanging the Church, Emanuel AME, was burned to the ground because it was where the conspiracy was supposed have been developed. Money and Architecture...
Are people here seriously comparing Trump to Hitler? There is plenty to criticize with Trump, but to go nuclear with a Hitler comparison sorta undermines your argument.
I think y'all need to be taking Trump much more seriously than you are:
From everything I hear in the Midwest, his message really resonates with working class people regardless of political affiliation. Hillary doesn't have a good answer to this (and one could argue that Bill was a major part of the problem); Bernie does have a compelling counterposition, but I'm not sure his appeal is broad enough take down Trump. It's gonna get real, folks.
the democrats are fighting between each other right now, and the republicans are fighting between each other (because it's the primary)
as pointed out in the article, both sides will change when they go after each other.
republican's can't criticize trump for being born with a silver spoon in his mouth. monetary policy that protects inheritance and legacy wealth like his is one of the fundamental cornerstones of the party. you could suggest that hillary will be unable to pivot her policy positions or that she will be too timid to go on an offensive attack, but really?
donald trump 'the builder' got rich with his daddy's money and immigrant labor. that crane plant is shutting down so he could shave money off his budget. if you're working at a plant that's shutting down and is somehow involved in the building industry, donald trump is the bad guy in pretty much every conceivable way. when his property company declares bankruptcy, who do you think loses the money he isn't paying?
Exactly how is it that comparing Trump with Adolf is wrong again? Didn't Adolf tell the masses that he would make Germany Great Again? Didn't Hitler blame the country's problems on an unwanted class, race, and ethnic group? I mean you're right, Hitler gassed Jews, and Trump only wants to exterminate Muslims with pig blood covered bullets, so you got me there.
Love him or hate him, but he’s the only candidate in the bunch that has a thread dedicated to him on this Forum. Recently read this in an article in The New Yorker....
"Who is Donald Trump?" The better question may be, "What is Donald Trump?" The answer?
A giant middle finger from average Americans to the political and media establishment.
Who cares if he wins or loses, just keep your middle fingers up!!
hillary has always been an exciting topic here. trump is just the shiny new thing to complain about for those who are getting tired of the empty bjarke ingels hate. when the trump crap dies out, hillary will still be here.
curtkram, first, you necroed a bunch of threads from 2008 that were fundamentally more about Obama than they were about Hillary. I know; I participated in most of them as about the only Hillary supporter on archinect at the time. beta called me every name in the book back then as he still does now. Obama in 2008 was a force, and it became clear that he had all the momentum, all the enthusiasm, and road that to the presidency. (I eventually came around and voted for him in both 2008 and 2012.) What you're seeing in 2016 around Trump is very similar to what was going on with Obama in 2008; obviously their politics are vastly different, but in terms of momentum, voice, and enthusiasm, there is no campaign that is even close. Hillary seems like a stale bagel in comparison.
And Trump's campaign strategy whether intentional or not is incredibly smart. The election is not won in the red states or the blue states; it is won in the purple states. The Republicans could run a slug in most of the southern states and they would still go red as long as the slug's name is not Hillary Clinton. Same goes for Dems in the blue states. Obama won by taking Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, etc. Trump's message is specifically tailored to purple voters in purple states.
The Midwest has been decimated by global trade policy and the collapse of U.S. industrial production - look at Flint, Youngstown, Eerie, Allentown. These are union towns that almost always break blue, but right now, neither the democrats nor the unions have the message to appeal to these voters who are genuinely pissed off at what's become of their communities and blame Democrats as much as the Republicans for their situation. Obama actually put Hillary in a hell of situation endorsing the TPP; she is already trying to overcome her husband's involvement with NAFTA. Trump owns the message that he can flip the switch and help these people. (Whether true or not is debatable.) Many of these working-class voters who have historically broken blue are not gonna move that direction in this election unless the Democrats can shore up their message, and I don't think Hillary Clinton is the one to do that.
Donald Trump is not trying to win the support of the unions; he is trying to win the support of union members. Big difference. And the unions are worried.
there is support for donald trump from union members because they think what he's said about trade deals will help them. i think there is a fair chance that if he follows through, what he has said could help manufacturing and production in the US.
hillary has a long history of actually being involved with trade deals, which isn't necessarily good for her. she actually knows how the trade relationship between the US and china or india works, which trump may not (or at least it doesn't come through when shouting one-line slogans). hillary has supported nafta, tpp, and other open international trade deals while opposing others for various reasons, but she's also been an advocate of having the US take a stronger position on enforcing even trade agreements, so india and china have to follow the same tax, intellectual property, environmental, labor, etc. rules that we do here. of course hillary's position on free trade isn't limited to 'they're taking our jobs' either. she's concerned about how trade deals effect our country's influence in the countries we work with, and how that effects national security.
as is often the case, hillary's legislative history is long and complicated so it's hard for her to really take a protectionist xenophobic stance. trump has no history, so he can have a much more simple policy position, because he's a simple person. or at least that's his branding. either way, he doesn't really support unions, so it won't be hard for the democrats to create some one-line catch phrase to say 'maybe trump will bring manufacturing jobs back, but you'll lose union representation and the security and benefits that brings.'
Do you trust a guy whose history is of dirty deals for personal profit?
Or a woman - Hillary was paid over $20m by big banks between 2013-5. She stopped when she announced her candidacy. Does that mean she should not recuse herself for conflict of interest?
Aside from the fact that presidents are largely crippled by congress. That would effect Hillary less than Trump as she's already busy sucking off Wall Street. Trump on the other hand could invoke martial law and disband congress. With an 86% disapproval rating the public would probably support him. But it's all rainbows and marshmallows because neither of them give a rat's ass about us.
Hitler was obsessed with building really big things to solve people problems (big guns, tanks, planes, forts). Trump wants a big wall.
My family is actively working on our second citizenship. He scares me because of citizenship tests. My wife and I were married before she became a citizen, and our child born before my wife was a citizen. This obsession with classes of citizens is unamerican and dangerous-we see the writing on the wall and are ready to leave if it becomes reality.
Hitler didn't start out with gas chambers; he started out by spewing the same rhetoric that Trump is now spewing. Do we really have to wait until there's gas chambers before making historical comparisons? Trump doesn't yet look like the Hitler of 1945, but he sure sounds a lot like the Hitler of 1929. And people in 1929 thought Hitler was a joke candidate with no chance of getting elected, either.
Architects for TRUMP
Street art, London.
I hear Trump and Adolph shared this too.
LOL. For the lefties, it will always be 1939.
Nah. 1848.
Or maybe 1970.
I'm not.
B3ta, arguably it was 1822.
I thought it was 1836
.
Double LOL at the historical illiterates in this here thread.
Gwharton, what is the year then?
gwharton,
I had a purposeful meaning behind 1836 statement that actually is architecture field related IF you know what I am referring to.
Hmmm. Let's see. What happened in 1848 that upset right wingers and led to them organizing a successful backlash? What about 1970?
gwharton,
For architects, the whining began in 1836 beginning with the formation of the American Institution of Architects when was the predecessor to the American Institute of Architects. The prior, ran into financial problems and then the later was formed a little later.
Arguably, the whining may have technically began a few years earlier during a regional or national recession in the 1820s and 1830s.
Rick: Yes, but the right wing is generally in favor of creating institutions, not destroying them. So 1836 doesn't quite resonate.
1939 was when ww2 started. hitler reference/godwin's law invoked
1861 was the start of the civil war. because slavery.
1848, people's spring, i don't see the connection to trump
1970, pinochet used violent revolt to overthrow a democratically elected president because that's what capitalists do when they don't get their way.
1836, remember the alamo. edited per RB's comment above, i guess 1836 and 1822 are not about texas.
1822, texas declared independence from spain
just thought i would help. obviously the "historical illiterates" comment implied some of us are too slow to try to understand what the others are saying.
LOL curtkram. You got some of your dates and events wrong. And Miles was the one making the Hitler references. Try again.
i didn't list who declared what date gwharton. i figured you could scroll up, but if you're having trouble:
1939 - from gwharton's comment above, "LOL. For the lefties, it will always be 1939." was when ww2 started. hitler reference/godwin's law invoked. hitler reference was of course mile's post above gwharton's post.
1861 - from beta above "For the righties, every day is 1861." was the start of the civil war. because slavery.
1848, - from gwharton above. people's spring, i don't see the connection to trump
1970, - gwharton's reference to the election of Salvador Allende as president of chile. pinochet used violent revolt to overthrow a democratically elected president because that's what capitalists do when they don't get their way.
1836, from RB above. he says it has something to do with the aia. i have no idea what he's talking about, which is typical
1822, i guess marc can explain why he chose this year, if not related to texas's independence.
our lack of literacy of historic events can start to be clarified now.
since we've started to work out our dates, perhaps we can have a normal conversation where we simply call each other 'hitler' or 'racist' or whatever else is on our mind without trying to obfuscate our intent behind some wikipedia page.
gwharton,
1836 was when they were creating the institution but when they ran into money problems, they didn't have much choice. They then attempt the process again and now we have the AIA but as you should know even the most right wing architects aren't always that good at running a sustainable business until they crash & burn a business or organization at least once.
Actually it is street artists in London (among many others) who've made the parallel between your golden boy and the Chancellor of the Third Reich.
Make America Great Again! With hatred and fear. Give the disaffected something to rally around.
we could say the anonymous street artist in london (who you did give credit to in your original post) was the first to invoke godwin's law if you want. gwharton still gets credit for attribution of 'it's always 1939' to 'the lefties.'
curtkram,
In 1836, the first incarnation of the AIA was created. This inherently lead to the movement that formed the AIA we know today and was instrumental to the creation of the architectural licensing. They were whining then and they are whining today. Only difference maybe what they are whining about but there is still some of the same old whining even after 180 years.
There is still the same old whining about money. Whining about competing with those who are not academically trained such as the architect-builders of the day.
180+ years of whining and it still going strong.
RB,
i'm pretty sure the conversation is that trump is a fascist with racist tendencies like hitler. gwharton blames 'lefties' basically for invoking godwin's law, while beta reinforces the position by claiming 'righties' tend to be racist.
i believe gwharton wanted to distance himself from the racist overtones of the dates presented by bringing in some kind of populist uprising into the conversation. obviously trump is not a populist, so hard to tell how it relates. maybe gwharton thinks trump is a populist. i don't know. i'm pretty sure his comment was a couple dates in response to a couple dates in a way that suggest whatever trump is trying to do is acceptable behavior.
you're talking about the aia. not particularly racist (though the case could be made if that's your intent?). not much of a populist movement. just trying to get your post count up?
curtkram,
I was trying to keep a little bit of architecture relevancy to the thread. There was certainly a period of time where the AIA and the architecture profession could be described as having a little more 'racism' going on but that kind of is passe even with the current politics.
Trump is a celebrity. The traditional measures of what makes a person a populist or non-populist doesn't apply. He can be the most hated person and yet be the most populist because he is a celebrity which is a GOD in American popTV/celebrity-idolizing culture.
I would vote for neither the Republican or Democrat candidate if none of them are viable. I am not sure I would want Mr. Trump as President.
obviously trump is not a populist
Are you kidding? Every plumber and electrician I know loves the guy, and if appearing on reality television doesn't de facto make you a populist, I don't know what does.
Donald Trump isn't a populist. He is a CELEBRITY which is basically a GOD in our celebrity idol-worshipping culture that permeates the American culture and way of life.
you may be right won and done. hard for me to understand how someone like that could say 'he's a trust fund baby just like me.' but then, there are some things i just don't understand.
If I had the money he had to start, I wouldn't have any issue getting into architecture schools anywhere in the U.S.
1822- Denmark Vecsey and 34 freed slaves were executed by hanging for conspiring to take over Charleston NC to prevent slave trade based on bodies and goods. In addition to the hanging the Church, Emanuel AME, was burned to the ground because it was where the conspiracy was supposed have been developed. Money and Architecture...
Are people here seriously comparing Trump to Hitler? There is plenty to criticize with Trump, but to go nuclear with a Hitler comparison sorta undermines your argument.
I think y'all need to be taking Trump much more seriously than you are:
http://www.thenation.com/article/why-donald-trumps-populism-is-dangerous/
From everything I hear in the Midwest, his message really resonates with working class people regardless of political affiliation. Hillary doesn't have a good answer to this (and one could argue that Bill was a major part of the problem); Bernie does have a compelling counterposition, but I'm not sure his appeal is broad enough take down Trump. It's gonna get real, folks.
One thing is for sure, Republicans are going to go to a super-delegate system ASAP.
the democrats are fighting between each other right now, and the republicans are fighting between each other (because it's the primary)
as pointed out in the article, both sides will change when they go after each other.
republican's can't criticize trump for being born with a silver spoon in his mouth. monetary policy that protects inheritance and legacy wealth like his is one of the fundamental cornerstones of the party. you could suggest that hillary will be unable to pivot her policy positions or that she will be too timid to go on an offensive attack, but really?
donald trump 'the builder' got rich with his daddy's money and immigrant labor. that crane plant is shutting down so he could shave money off his budget. if you're working at a plant that's shutting down and is somehow involved in the building industry, donald trump is the bad guy in pretty much every conceivable way. when his property company declares bankruptcy, who do you think loses the money he isn't paying?
Exactly how is it that comparing Trump with Adolf is wrong again? Didn't Adolf tell the masses that he would make Germany Great Again? Didn't Hitler blame the country's problems on an unwanted class, race, and ethnic group? I mean you're right, Hitler gassed Jews, and Trump only wants to exterminate Muslims with pig blood covered bullets, so you got me there.
Who's that with Schicklgruber?
Love him or hate him, but he’s the only candidate in the bunch that has a thread dedicated to him on this Forum. Recently read this in an article in The New Yorker....
"Who is Donald Trump?" The better question may be, "What is Donald Trump?" The answer?
A giant middle finger from average Americans to the political and media establishment.
Who cares if he wins or loses, just keep your middle fingers up!!
http://archinect.com/forum/thread/55236/run-hillary-run
http://archinect.com/forum/thread/125212864/is-hillary-a-champ
http://archinect.com/forum/thread/82715/hillary-clinton-secretary-of-state
http://archinect.com/forum/thread/71815/hillary-clinton-will-destroy-the-democratic-party
hillary and shubow in one thread? how can you beat that?
http://archinect.com/forum/thread/144342503/was-hillary-mocking-shubow-the-new-world-order-not-greek
hillary has always been an exciting topic here. trump is just the shiny new thing to complain about for those who are getting tired of the empty bjarke ingels hate. when the trump crap dies out, hillary will still be here.
If the choice comes down to Hillary or Trump?
Peru is looking pretty good these days.
or canada
http://cbiftrumpwins.com/#intro
curtkram, first, you necroed a bunch of threads from 2008 that were fundamentally more about Obama than they were about Hillary. I know; I participated in most of them as about the only Hillary supporter on archinect at the time. beta called me every name in the book back then as he still does now. Obama in 2008 was a force, and it became clear that he had all the momentum, all the enthusiasm, and road that to the presidency. (I eventually came around and voted for him in both 2008 and 2012.) What you're seeing in 2016 around Trump is very similar to what was going on with Obama in 2008; obviously their politics are vastly different, but in terms of momentum, voice, and enthusiasm, there is no campaign that is even close. Hillary seems like a stale bagel in comparison.
And Trump's campaign strategy whether intentional or not is incredibly smart. The election is not won in the red states or the blue states; it is won in the purple states. The Republicans could run a slug in most of the southern states and they would still go red as long as the slug's name is not Hillary Clinton. Same goes for Dems in the blue states. Obama won by taking Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, etc. Trump's message is specifically tailored to purple voters in purple states.
The Midwest has been decimated by global trade policy and the collapse of U.S. industrial production - look at Flint, Youngstown, Eerie, Allentown. These are union towns that almost always break blue, but right now, neither the democrats nor the unions have the message to appeal to these voters who are genuinely pissed off at what's become of their communities and blame Democrats as much as the Republicans for their situation. Obama actually put Hillary in a hell of situation endorsing the TPP; she is already trying to overcome her husband's involvement with NAFTA. Trump owns the message that he can flip the switch and help these people. (Whether true or not is debatable.) Many of these working-class voters who have historically broken blue are not gonna move that direction in this election unless the Democrats can shore up their message, and I don't think Hillary Clinton is the one to do that.
does trump actually support unions in his own businesses, or does he just want to get their votes?
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/02/23/3752619/trump-hotel-dispute/
Breaking news - David Duke endorses Trump.
Donald Trump is not trying to win the support of the unions; he is trying to win the support of union members. Big difference. And the unions are worried.
there is support for donald trump from union members because they think what he's said about trade deals will help them. i think there is a fair chance that if he follows through, what he has said could help manufacturing and production in the US.
hillary has a long history of actually being involved with trade deals, which isn't necessarily good for her. she actually knows how the trade relationship between the US and china or india works, which trump may not (or at least it doesn't come through when shouting one-line slogans). hillary has supported nafta, tpp, and other open international trade deals while opposing others for various reasons, but she's also been an advocate of having the US take a stronger position on enforcing even trade agreements, so india and china have to follow the same tax, intellectual property, environmental, labor, etc. rules that we do here. of course hillary's position on free trade isn't limited to 'they're taking our jobs' either. she's concerned about how trade deals effect our country's influence in the countries we work with, and how that effects national security.
as is often the case, hillary's legislative history is long and complicated so it's hard for her to really take a protectionist xenophobic stance. trump has no history, so he can have a much more simple policy position, because he's a simple person. or at least that's his branding. either way, he doesn't really support unions, so it won't be hard for the democrats to create some one-line catch phrase to say 'maybe trump will bring manufacturing jobs back, but you'll lose union representation and the security and benefits that brings.'
Do you trust a guy whose history is of dirty deals for personal profit?
Or a woman - Hillary was paid over $20m by big banks between 2013-5. She stopped when she announced her candidacy. Does that mean she should not recuse herself for conflict of interest?
Aside from the fact that presidents are largely crippled by congress. That would effect Hillary less than Trump as she's already busy sucking off Wall Street. Trump on the other hand could invoke martial law and disband congress. With an 86% disapproval rating the public would probably support him. But it's all rainbows and marshmallows because neither of them give a rat's ass about us.
My family is actively working on our second citizenship. He scares me because of citizenship tests. My wife and I were married before she became a citizen, and our child born before my wife was a citizen. This obsession with classes of citizens is unamerican and dangerous-we see the writing on the wall and are ready to leave if it becomes reality.
to be fair, trump has not actually gassed 6 million jewish or muslim people. while his rhetoric is contemptible, it's not the same as what hitler did.
Hitler didn't start out with gas chambers; he started out by spewing the same rhetoric that Trump is now spewing. Do we really have to wait until there's gas chambers before making historical comparisons? Trump doesn't yet look like the Hitler of 1945, but he sure sounds a lot like the Hitler of 1929. And people in 1929 thought Hitler was a joke candidate with no chance of getting elected, either.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.