The big hit is coming, I am not sure what it will be but she will go so negative as to never be able to come back, possibly endangering Obama and even herself as a democratic nominee.
[T]here is a little-known episode Clinton doesn't mention in her standard campaign speech in which those two principles collided. In 1975, a 27-year-old Hillary Rodham, acting as a court-appointed attorney, attacked the credibility of a 12-year-old girl in mounting an aggressive defense for an indigent client accused of rape in Arkansas - using her child development background to help the defendant.
[snip]
[Clinton's] account leaves out a significant aspect of her defense strategy - attempting to impugn the credibility of the victim, according to aNewsday examination of court and investigative files and interviews with witnesses, law enforcement officials and the victim.
Rodham, records show, questioned the sixth grader's honesty and claimed she had made false accusations in the past. She implied that the girl often fantasized and sought out "older men" like Taylor, according to a July 1975 affidavit signed "Hillary D. Rodham" in compact cursive.
I don't understand the criticism - that speech excerpt in the Huffington Post piece sounds like the words of a perfectly rational human being. Hmm.
I'm Canadian so I don't have a say, anyway, but I do think that Hilary's going to do more damage to her own campaign in the next several months.
And all this mud-slinging about something she said as a lawyer 30 years ago? Leave that alone. I wasn't even born yet. I'd rather decide based on recent actions. It seems most peoples' memories are only about a week old anyway, so I'm not sure how bringing something like that up will help her opponents.
Well the criticism is that the flyers shes holding are entirely accurate and it seems bat-shit insane to goad the press into reiterating that fact for the next 3 days just so she can put on this showy 'shame on you' victim card.
I think its tremendously sad the road she has taken in the last few days especially. I just dont understand it, I mean they played both routes in the debate, and everyone saw how much better she played when she was magnanimous than when she was petty. Doesnt she know this is exactly what has killed her campaign? I dont think anyone has the right to ask her to end the campaign before the 4th, or really even before it becomes mathematically impossible for her to win, but for her to go out in this sad, desperate, self-destructive campaign implosion, and demoralize the party in the bargain is just reprehensible.
Can you guys please go find some political web forums to talk about this stuff? I'm sick of it, and I;m checking in to Archinect less and elss altely because of it. I still don't know if I'll vote for Obama or Clinton, but I won't figure it out via what everyone here has to say.
Don't bother responding directly to me here, because I'm not going to check this thread again.
Im sorry, but a lot of us enjoy talking about politics and enjoy fighting with each other, if you do not like them just dont look at them. Please do not try to tell us what to do, we are not spaming you, this forum belongs to all of us afterall.
Starting multiple threads on an architecture forum about a single topic that is not architecture is a form of spam. Less malicious perhaps, but a form of spam, nonetheless. And most people would avoid them, if they didn't occupy the top positions on the forum so often. It's hard to avoid them when they keep showing up at the top.
Elimelech, I agree with you on most things you post, however I'd ask you to respect those Archinectors who actually want to talk about other things besides the Presidential race by not telling them to buzz off. I enjoy talking about politics as well, but I don't need 20 threads in which to do so.
WK. I guess I got upset this afternoon, but this is only the second thread I start. The other one was the vice-presidential guessing game which is bipartisan and seems to be fun.
I thought long before posting this thread but the 'run hillary run' thread did not seem like the right place to post this, and I did not want to put filthy actions in the VOTE OBAMA thread. If the people that control this forum feel this one goes too far let them take it away, but I felt like I needed to make a serious point and it needed a new thread.
It does upset me that this is being said by the same people that defended the ridiculousness by some posters of this forum this past spring/summer. It is like only a few people have rights around here.
It's not about rights, it's about common courtesy. Everyone on the forum has rights, which means that you have a right to post a new topic, and everyone else has the right to complain about it if they feel like it. But you have to recognize that when you start to annoy people by beating the same drum over and over again, if people say they are coming to the forum less and less because of it.....well, it's a forum. You don't want less people, you want more, ergo, you don't want to drive people away.
That said, I appreciate your enthusiasm and that you thought about where to place your thoughts before you posted the topic. Please note that no one is suggesting that you be stoned or banned or that a poll be started to vote you off the island, I think there is just a bit of political fatigue going on. I am as annoyed by Hillary's current actions as you are, but I can't subject myself to it anymore.....it seems like a really messy downward spiral and I'm hoping that she doesn't take anyone else down with her.
we need more threads about politics because nobody else will talk to us about politics.
when you talk about politics in real life with friends or acquaintances, everyone tends to just get pissed at each other because they don't agree. here, it doesn't matter if we get pissed at each other because most of us have never met each other anyways.
we are architects so it's relevant to architecture.
you could start a blog or start commenting on blogs. there are a lot of (non architecture) people out there (some intelligent some not so much) who are REALLY opinionated about politics. i'm sure some of them would love to discuss with you. or else you can keep trying to talk on architenect, because despite a few annoyed people, lots of archinectors obviously wanna talk about politics.
Aw, I sympathize, eli. I guess I agree with WK but its not your fault.
Most of the time politics comes up the people I know really like talking about it. Its just about being reasonable and honest and sympathetic to people who see things differently.
I'm a political junkie as well, and I share Elimelech's enthusiasm for Obama, but I agree with others in that the number of redundant political threads seems a bit overwhelming. It's probably too late now, but some sort of "2008 POTUS Election Thread Central" would have been a good idea. Maybe in 2012, I guess.
Patrick, Huffington is actually pretty good and I have to confess to be a closet Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Malkin, Neal Boortz listener/reader. I listen/read a lot of the stuff out there.
I was just pissed about Hillary, but I think that McCain has been careless in his words though out the election season. singing 'bomb bomb bomb bomb iran' is one of the stupidest things I have seen come out of a candidate thus far (including Keyes and Gravel). The 100 year thing just shows that he is a bit delusional and thinks that this is still WWII. If we stay in the middle east for that long we will be in MAJOR trouble, they are not Korea or Germany.
On this: And now I hear Barack defending his worthiness as a campaign candidate simply because the popularity and momentum of his religious revival style campaign.
You KNOW you are wrong. You keep asking for specifics we give it to you, he gives it to you, at the end of the day you just don't like him.
better yet, give me some of McCains proposals. he has changed them so much over the past 6 months I do not even know which McCain is running anymore. Can you tell me one (besides his policy of Iraq until we... I dont even know until when).
i wish he was. i live for the day that right wing fanatics get over their self-righteousness and accept humans for what they are and believe in. perhaps a decent running prop could be an effing mirror.
Dude, we can read and surf the internet without your constant shoving of non architectural info. You are annoying folks who already support Obama...I am in Texas...don't make me so irritated that I vote for Clinton merely to spite you.
Elimelech - don't let anyone tell you what not to post on archinect. Looking at the threads right now thread central is still up at the top with a bazillion posts. A complete waste of space if you ask me, and the novelty - a thread about other threads - wore off months ago. I notice far more threads about "what grad school should I pick" or "my university is ranked #1" or "Sciarch kicks ass" compared to political threads. Frankly, those all bore me to death. It's a presidential election year. It's part of the news. Archinectors are just gonna have to get used to it.
It's absolutely gross that HRC has released that photo. What was the point of doing this? She is just playing off the fears of the ppl in Ohio and Texas. Even if she could make it as the party's nomination, I could not vote for her. And this would be the first election that I have ever sat out of. So sad.
aquapura, i agree the private club that is TC, as barely architectural as it is, can move forward but if someone outside their group dares to post something we catch hell. Since 3 of the head honchos of Thread Central have told me to shut it, I will, I dont want to be annoying.
Hillary has always been irrational, shit she lets her husband cheat around and she sold out her values for 200 million dollars and is constantly in bitch mode, nobody attacked her she is attacking. what a projectionist
She is pulling a publicity stunt to initiate some sort of change in her policy (because she's loosing). He has said clearly, in front of her face, a million times that her plan forces everyone to join. It has made me respect her less. Desparate times call for desparate measures.
Lots of flaming going on in this thread, not just in Hillary's direction....I don't appreciate the negative energy directed towards your so-called "private clubbers" of TC. We may not post about architecture on there, but that's kind of the point of that thread, and notice we keep it to that thread and don't start 15 others and annoy the hell out of everybody.
I was trying to be helpful and I was doing it in a constructive way, and snide comments are the thanks I get? Classy.
Elimelech, how dare you post a topic about politics in a sub-forum called "POLITICS: Discussions about politics and government issues not related to architecture and/or design."
droog I have paid my penance for such a transgression.
Anyway, Hillary has already stole this election, she has ALREADY lost yet she is still in, she knows something we do not.
Obama is not tied with Hillary he already won. For the 'black' man with the funny name that half this country (helped by Hillary) thinks is some sort of muslim manchurian candidate, there was never going to be a blow out. He has won the popular vote and the delegate count, this is done.
She can only win by tearing Obama down so badly that the Super Delegates cannot vote for him, thus stealing it.
i don't know if hil has lost or not. she seems to have some steam and is effectively bashing mc cain whereas barack needs to quit talkin hope and change and deal some body blows to mccain.
you mean like the ones Obama started to deal on McCain when he won Wisconsin? That while Obama was beginning to engage the Republicans Hillary used that opportunity to release photos? Hillary is HELPING McCain and only landing punches on Obama, hurting him on the general.
i agree that it's not that easy trace. over the summer, while i already knew i was voting for obama, i would've still voted for hill if she became the nominee. today i'm not so sure and i know this could help give mc cain the office. i know a lot of people who feel the same way as i do. i've also heard a number of people say the same here. if it comes to hill being the nominee, it maybe the first election i'll sit out.
over the last several months she has just said/not said a number of things that do not sit well with me going back to the racial tinged comments prior to south carolina. just this week she tip-toed around whether Obama was a muslim or not in an interview to further fuel fear in the minds of the less informed voter. i would have respected her if she had actually said "come on steve, that is a ridiculous question and you know it. it's obvious he is not muslim." instead:
Again, elimelech, it's not soviet style, it's very much all American - see my comment on the Obama thread about convention fights and particularly Reagan's attempt to steal the 1976 Republican convention.
Emilio, are you seriously defending these tactics? If Obama were using these tactics I would be pissed, why do we give Hillary a pass? I smell something fishy in all this, if Hillary wins this way there is NO way she will win the general.
No, Eli, I'm just pointing out that the gloom and doom scenario of a convention fight is not so gloom and doom: it has historic precedent, and the people who did make power grabs at the convention were not reviled by history. On the contrary, in Reagan's case, they set up his triumphant wins of the 80s. It's not a matter of "giving passes", man, it's politics as it's played by the big boys....c'mon.
Hillary Clinton will destroy the Democratic Party
If she doesn't get what she wants. So much for those that thought she would go in a high note.
Hillary is acting irrational
Giving Republicans talking points:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/24/hillary-clinton-mocks-bar_n_88194.html
The big hit is coming, I am not sure what it will be but she will go so negative as to never be able to come back, possibly endangering Obama and even herself as a democratic nominee.
HILLARY GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL HAVE DIGNITY AND DEMOCRATS HAVE A SHOT.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/114725
http://www.thestar.com/News/USElection/article/306400\
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-barol/clintons-zidane-moment_b_88198.html
if not welcome to the 100 year war, McCain 08
OH and TX archinectors please stop the madness, the rest of us, hit the phones:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/phonebankmap
Hillary's advisors:
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/24/kristol-politics-of-fear/
REAL CLASS ACT
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Clintons_client.html#comments
[T]here is a little-known episode Clinton doesn't mention in her standard campaign speech in which those two principles collided. In 1975, a 27-year-old Hillary Rodham, acting as a court-appointed attorney, attacked the credibility of a 12-year-old girl in mounting an aggressive defense for an indigent client accused of rape in Arkansas - using her child development background to help the defendant.
[snip]
[Clinton's] account leaves out a significant aspect of her defense strategy - attempting to impugn the credibility of the victim, according to aNewsday examination of court and investigative files and interviews with witnesses, law enforcement officials and the victim.
Rodham, records show, questioned the sixth grader's honesty and claimed she had made false accusations in the past. She implied that the girl often fantasized and sought out "older men" like Taylor, according to a July 1975 affidavit signed "Hillary D. Rodham" in compact cursive.
^^ Yo lets not resort to that.
I don't understand the criticism - that speech excerpt in the Huffington Post piece sounds like the words of a perfectly rational human being. Hmm.
I'm Canadian so I don't have a say, anyway, but I do think that Hilary's going to do more damage to her own campaign in the next several months.
And all this mud-slinging about something she said as a lawyer 30 years ago? Leave that alone. I wasn't even born yet. I'd rather decide based on recent actions. It seems most peoples' memories are only about a week old anyway, so I'm not sure how bringing something like that up will help her opponents.
She is the one saying that ALL her 35 years of service should count.
that is not mud, it shows a pattern of very unwise decisions.
Well the criticism is that the flyers shes holding are entirely accurate and it seems bat-shit insane to goad the press into reiterating that fact for the next 3 days just so she can put on this showy 'shame on you' victim card.
I think its tremendously sad the road she has taken in the last few days especially. I just dont understand it, I mean they played both routes in the debate, and everyone saw how much better she played when she was magnanimous than when she was petty. Doesnt she know this is exactly what has killed her campaign? I dont think anyone has the right to ask her to end the campaign before the 4th, or really even before it becomes mathematically impossible for her to win, but for her to go out in this sad, desperate, self-destructive campaign implosion, and demoralize the party in the bargain is just reprehensible.
Can you guys please go find some political web forums to talk about this stuff? I'm sick of it, and I;m checking in to Archinect less and elss altely because of it. I still don't know if I'll vote for Obama or Clinton, but I won't figure it out via what everyone here has to say.
Don't bother responding directly to me here, because I'm not going to check this thread again.
We don't need any more threads about politics. Please stop.
Im sorry, but a lot of us enjoy talking about politics and enjoy fighting with each other, if you do not like them just dont look at them. Please do not try to tell us what to do, we are not spaming you, this forum belongs to all of us afterall.
Starting multiple threads on an architecture forum about a single topic that is not architecture is a form of spam. Less malicious perhaps, but a form of spam, nonetheless. And most people would avoid them, if they didn't occupy the top positions on the forum so often. It's hard to avoid them when they keep showing up at the top.
Elimelech, I agree with you on most things you post, however I'd ask you to respect those Archinectors who actually want to talk about other things besides the Presidential race by not telling them to buzz off. I enjoy talking about politics as well, but I don't need 20 threads in which to do so.
WK. I guess I got upset this afternoon, but this is only the second thread I start. The other one was the vice-presidential guessing game which is bipartisan and seems to be fun.
I thought long before posting this thread but the 'run hillary run' thread did not seem like the right place to post this, and I did not want to put filthy actions in the VOTE OBAMA thread. If the people that control this forum feel this one goes too far let them take it away, but I felt like I needed to make a serious point and it needed a new thread.
It does upset me that this is being said by the same people that defended the ridiculousness by some posters of this forum this past spring/summer. It is like only a few people have rights around here.
Finally, politics also affect designers...
I think it only seems bad after the fucking endless obamatroll trainwreck plowing through this place.
It's not about rights, it's about common courtesy. Everyone on the forum has rights, which means that you have a right to post a new topic, and everyone else has the right to complain about it if they feel like it. But you have to recognize that when you start to annoy people by beating the same drum over and over again, if people say they are coming to the forum less and less because of it.....well, it's a forum. You don't want less people, you want more, ergo, you don't want to drive people away.
That said, I appreciate your enthusiasm and that you thought about where to place your thoughts before you posted the topic. Please note that no one is suggesting that you be stoned or banned or that a poll be started to vote you off the island, I think there is just a bit of political fatigue going on. I am as annoyed by Hillary's current actions as you are, but I can't subject myself to it anymore.....it seems like a really messy downward spiral and I'm hoping that she doesn't take anyone else down with her.
we need more threads about politics because nobody else will talk to us about politics.
when you talk about politics in real life with friends or acquaintances, everyone tends to just get pissed at each other because they don't agree. here, it doesn't matter if we get pissed at each other because most of us have never met each other anyways.
we are architects so it's relevant to architecture.
nicholas i agree the people in my life will not talk to me any longer about politics.
And to answer lb, i actually post in every major political blog, but it is just not as much fun as archinect.
I am a certified political junkie, what can I do?
you could start a blog or start commenting on blogs. there are a lot of (non architecture) people out there (some intelligent some not so much) who are REALLY opinionated about politics. i'm sure some of them would love to discuss with you. or else you can keep trying to talk on architenect, because despite a few annoyed people, lots of archinectors obviously wanna talk about politics.
Aw, I sympathize, eli. I guess I agree with WK but its not your fault.
Most of the time politics comes up the people I know really like talking about it. Its just about being reasonable and honest and sympathetic to people who see things differently.
is it just me, or did it seem that all the political threads disappeared for a moment?
CNN has a poll out on Barack Obama's patriotism. This is a disgusting attack on a presidential candidate, who is obviously patriotic.
please fill out the poll
http://www.cnn.com
and contact CNN to complain about the poll
http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form1.html?35
I'm a political junkie as well, and I share Elimelech's enthusiasm for Obama, but I agree with others in that the number of redundant political threads seems a bit overwhelming. It's probably too late now, but some sort of "2008 POTUS Election Thread Central" would have been a good idea. Maybe in 2012, I guess.
Korea and Japan huh? Yeah, it's worked swell in Korea....
Patrick, Huffington is actually pretty good and I have to confess to be a closet Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Malkin, Neal Boortz listener/reader. I listen/read a lot of the stuff out there.
I was just pissed about Hillary, but I think that McCain has been careless in his words though out the election season. singing 'bomb bomb bomb bomb iran' is one of the stupidest things I have seen come out of a candidate thus far (including Keyes and Gravel). The 100 year thing just shows that he is a bit delusional and thinks that this is still WWII. If we stay in the middle east for that long we will be in MAJOR trouble, they are not Korea or Germany.
On this:
And now I hear Barack defending his worthiness as a campaign candidate simply because the popularity and momentum of his religious revival style campaign.
You KNOW you are wrong. You keep asking for specifics we give it to you, he gives it to you, at the end of the day you just don't like him.
read this and let's let that rest:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-obama-speeches-analyzed-feb24,1,3150697.story
better yet, give me some of McCains proposals. he has changed them so much over the past 6 months I do not even know which McCain is running anymore. Can you tell me one (besides his policy of Iraq until we... I dont even know until when).
I am officially depressed, today I got the 'Obama is a muslim' email from my MOM.
sad.
i wish he was. i live for the day that right wing fanatics get over their self-righteousness and accept humans for what they are and believe in. perhaps a decent running prop could be an effing mirror.
OBAMOMMY don't believe everything you read on the internets
:'(
free, that actually lifted my spirits a bit.
After Hillary's meltdown in the video above Hillary is trying to swiftboating Obama because he travels to other places and uses local dress;
http://youdecide08.foxnews.com/2008/02/25/photo-showing-obama-in-somali-garb-circulated-by-clinton-campaign-source/
This is going to get out soon, so I might as well post it:
but...
and
Hillary has accepted that she is sending the email with the picture, tries to spin it:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Clintons_response_the_days_Drudge.html#comments
Dude, we can read and surf the internet without your constant shoving of non architectural info. You are annoying folks who already support Obama...I am in Texas...don't make me so irritated that I vote for Clinton merely to spite you.
Elimelech - don't let anyone tell you what not to post on archinect. Looking at the threads right now thread central is still up at the top with a bazillion posts. A complete waste of space if you ask me, and the novelty - a thread about other threads - wore off months ago. I notice far more threads about "what grad school should I pick" or "my university is ranked #1" or "Sciarch kicks ass" compared to political threads. Frankly, those all bore me to death. It's a presidential election year. It's part of the news. Archinectors are just gonna have to get used to it.
It's absolutely gross that HRC has released that photo. What was the point of doing this? She is just playing off the fears of the ppl in Ohio and Texas. Even if she could make it as the party's nomination, I could not vote for her. And this would be the first election that I have ever sat out of. So sad.
aquapura, i agree the private club that is TC, as barely architectural as it is, can move forward but if someone outside their group dares to post something we catch hell. Since 3 of the head honchos of Thread Central have told me to shut it, I will, I dont want to be annoying.
Hillary has always been irrational, shit she lets her husband cheat around and she sold out her values for 200 million dollars and is constantly in bitch mode, nobody attacked her she is attacking. what a projectionist
GET LOST HILLARY aka the Liar.
She is pulling a publicity stunt to initiate some sort of change in her policy (because she's loosing). He has said clearly, in front of her face, a million times that her plan forces everyone to join. It has made me respect her less. Desparate times call for desparate measures.
Lots of flaming going on in this thread, not just in Hillary's direction....I don't appreciate the negative energy directed towards your so-called "private clubbers" of TC. We may not post about architecture on there, but that's kind of the point of that thread, and notice we keep it to that thread and don't start 15 others and annoy the hell out of everybody.
I was trying to be helpful and I was doing it in a constructive way, and snide comments are the thanks I get? Classy.
dubK
get back to work!!!!!!!!!!
Elimelech, how dare you post a topic about politics in a sub-forum called "POLITICS: Discussions about politics and government issues not related to architecture and/or design."
Outrageous.
I find it interesting that so many dislike her so much and yet she's almost tied with Obama.
I don't like her either, but I like the alternatives (Rep continued war reign) worse.
Not voting democratic, imho, is essentially voting for republicans. I wish it weren't so simplistic, but that's pretty much how it'll go down.
droog I have paid my penance for such a transgression.
Anyway, Hillary has already stole this election, she has ALREADY lost yet she is still in, she knows something we do not.
Obama is not tied with Hillary he already won. For the 'black' man with the funny name that half this country (helped by Hillary) thinks is some sort of muslim manchurian candidate, there was never going to be a blow out. He has won the popular vote and the delegate count, this is done.
She can only win by tearing Obama down so badly that the Super Delegates cannot vote for him, thus stealing it.
Republicans are the new Democrats!!
McCain 08
i don't know if hil has lost or not. she seems to have some steam and is effectively bashing mc cain whereas barack needs to quit talkin hope and change and deal some body blows to mccain.
you mean like the ones Obama started to deal on McCain when he won Wisconsin? That while Obama was beginning to engage the Republicans Hillary used that opportunity to release photos? Hillary is HELPING McCain and only landing punches on Obama, hurting him on the general.
Don't buy Hillary's spin
This is a good one... Remember the sleeping girl in Hillary's "3 AM" ad? She'd rather have Obama pick up the phone.
i agree that it's not that easy trace. over the summer, while i already knew i was voting for obama, i would've still voted for hill if she became the nominee. today i'm not so sure and i know this could help give mc cain the office. i know a lot of people who feel the same way as i do. i've also heard a number of people say the same here. if it comes to hill being the nominee, it maybe the first election i'll sit out.
over the last several months she has just said/not said a number of things that do not sit well with me going back to the racial tinged comments prior to south carolina. just this week she tip-toed around whether Obama was a muslim or not in an interview to further fuel fear in the minds of the less informed voter. i would have respected her if she had actually said "come on steve, that is a ridiculous question and you know it. it's obvious he is not muslim." instead:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHFREDHB-nQ
that is hilarious gin.
How to steal an election, soviet style:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/10/clinton-appears-to-raise-prospect-of-wooing-pledged-delegates/
Again, elimelech, it's not soviet style, it's very much all American - see my comment on the Obama thread about convention fights and particularly Reagan's attempt to steal the 1976 Republican convention.
Emilio, are you seriously defending these tactics? If Obama were using these tactics I would be pissed, why do we give Hillary a pass? I smell something fishy in all this, if Hillary wins this way there is NO way she will win the general.
No, Eli, I'm just pointing out that the gloom and doom scenario of a convention fight is not so gloom and doom: it has historic precedent, and the people who did make power grabs at the convention were not reviled by history. On the contrary, in Reagan's case, they set up his triumphant wins of the 80s. It's not a matter of "giving passes", man, it's politics as it's played by the big boys....c'mon.
and girls.
that should read "were not NECESSARILY reviled by history"
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