i am a staunch pacificst...
but i do think that women should be required to sign up for the draft, AND have the option of serving in combat.
i don't know if things have changed, but women were not allowed to fly combat airplanes, which was my argument in not joining when military recruiters were harassing me on the phone in high school.
1. There is currently no draft.
2. Recent proposed legislation to reinstate the draft and/or have compulsory military or civil service have all been proposed to apply to both men and women - though it is unclear as to whether identical types of service would be open to both.
i am also a pacifist, but a patriot is a patriot no matter their chromosomal makeup. gay, straight, as well. and everyone should have a right to express that patriotism as they see fit (within bounds of others rights). those that want to engage in ground combat should be able to do so. that said, in an equal society there should be an equal draft, or registration for a draft.
Before I go on, I wanna just get one thing out of the way: like others here, I'm a pacifist that feels than anyone should be able to fight. As far as the draft is concerned, I don't even think it matters that there is no draft at the moment. Regardless of if there is or not, being a male I was required by law to register for such once I turned 18. Why haven't women been required to do the same thing? At the current time they can serve in non-combat roles which are often just as (if not more) important than those on the front lines. These positions are in need of people to fill them just as combat roles are. Why aren't their groups lobbying for this form of equality between the sexes?
But what if there is a draft, or cumpulsory military service, and men are sent to die in hand-to-hand combat, while women are spared that risk because of gender? Is that fair?
Dont get me wrong, I would never ask a woman to die in a battlefield, so why then, should I?
she was defended by her lawyer as she was not doing anything different than mothers putting a leash on their babies in shopping malls and the airports..
serious.
Women can fly in combat, and they can serve in direct combat support roles. Look at the list of US war dead in iraq, and tell me there haven't already been women in combat.
STANCE DISCLAIMER: i am not advocating anyone being in combat, but it is undeniable that people are/will be in combat....BUT...
ArchAngel,
i don't understand your stance...
you wouldn't "ask a woman to serve in combat" because you don't want to either?
which sort of implies that you don't think women should serve (although we all understand you are of the DISCLAIMER) for some sort of gender/societal reason....
or
you don't understand why women are prohibited from combat? (which i am still unclear of whether this is true or not)
or
something else?
Last time I looked at that web site with the names of those killed on it looked like a pretty good number were women and plenty of those reservists getting hit with stop-loss are women.
I don’t know anything about the butch action movie stuff you guys are getting all hot and bothered about but it seems like the tough, sucky part of combat is hanging out in Iraq getting killed or mutilated and women are doing more of that than ever.
Some poor kid signing up for money for college, leadership, two weekends a month and ending up getting shipped off to die or kill for insanity an bullshit just seems like an absurd tragedy to me whether he’s an ultra-violent, racist, meat head or just some chick trying to get out of West Virginia. I don’t see any honor or patriotism here.
However, I think there still taking suckers if any of you desk-jockies feel like going out an trying to prove something about your masculinity.
Has anyone read “The Body in Pain†by Elaine Scary? That’s what I mean.
Jan 12, 05 5:16 pm ·
·
Women should be drafted, so in case there is a draft, Barbara and Jenna Bush can get drafted first.
Yeah, and what’s all this big-government draft stuff coming from the right-wingers here. If you like compulsory military service why don’t you move to France with the rest of the pinko sissies?
Steph
Thanks for the op to say it.
Women should be protected, or let to do whatever they want.
Most men think all women are beautiful in some way, and for them most men have an intrinisic sense of respect, and with them a different way of interacting - naturally.
Sending women off to war to die is actually more self-destructive than not defending your self against the enemy, as sacrificing the females is no way to perpertuate a species, group, race, political party - whatever - a cause, so historically women just haven't done certain things (women and children first). I also believe some women are able to do anything a man can do, and therefore, should be allowed to if they want and if they can "do".
If a woman wants to go to war let her, if she want 's to stay home and raise a family...great. I think the real question relating to this thread and the other 50/50 thread is; What percentage of women want to die in combat, and similarly, how many women want to be architects. You might find that the percentage of women who are architects and the percentage of women who participate in an all-voluntary Military is not the same as women in the workplace, generally.
That you are an architect does not mean all women want to be architects, but 45% do want to work, and no one is stopping them.
No women should be allowed on the front lines. Put them toward the back of the convoy where there is less armor plating. In reciprocal fairness, Palestinian women should not be allowed to strap explosive devices to themselves. Label me a sexist if you must.
i agree about no draft. an all volunteer armed force will be better than forcing people to do something they may not want to do. i do worry about how the DOD is going to solve their readiness problem if they continue to over extend the troops they have now though.
i think the thing that links the two subjects, in my mind, is about creating environments that are healthy for women >> a place that supports and not discourages women from being involved. similarly, policies like "don't ask don't tell," are not healthy for gays and lesbians in the armed forces either and thus are not healthy for the armed services in general.
I think you are on to something stephanie. After the men are dead, the women can have slapping fights to work through their grievances and all will be peace and tranquility
If women have a chance NOT to be forced to fight stupid wars then i sure won't object to that. Lucky them, that probably makes up for all the bullshit they have to deal with from their male peers on a daily basis... (and i'm probably one of them)
Jan 15, 05 4:04 am ·
·
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50/50 Campaign: Women In Combat
So Whattaya all think?
War, as ugly and harsh as it is, can be necessary....ladies?
No Women In Combat
I'm not a sexist, this is purely rhetorical to generate discourse.
Forget the front lines... what about women in the draft?
i am a staunch pacificst...
but i do think that women should be required to sign up for the draft, AND have the option of serving in combat.
i don't know if things have changed, but women were not allowed to fly combat airplanes, which was my argument in not joining when military recruiters were harassing me on the phone in high school.
1. There is currently no draft.
2. Recent proposed legislation to reinstate the draft and/or have compulsory military or civil service have all been proposed to apply to both men and women - though it is unclear as to whether identical types of service would be open to both.
i am also a pacifist, but a patriot is a patriot no matter their chromosomal makeup. gay, straight, as well. and everyone should have a right to express that patriotism as they see fit (within bounds of others rights). those that want to engage in ground combat should be able to do so. that said, in an equal society there should be an equal draft, or registration for a draft.
kato kaelin at the opening of PATRIOT (mel gibson)
kk was oj simpson's side kick in the night of murders.
Before I go on, I wanna just get one thing out of the way: like others here, I'm a pacifist that feels than anyone should be able to fight. As far as the draft is concerned, I don't even think it matters that there is no draft at the moment. Regardless of if there is or not, being a male I was required by law to register for such once I turned 18. Why haven't women been required to do the same thing? At the current time they can serve in non-combat roles which are often just as (if not more) important than those on the front lines. These positions are in need of people to fill them just as combat roles are. Why aren't their groups lobbying for this form of equality between the sexes?
scratch that it was not a big deal.
i worry about the fine line between patriotism and racisism getting more and more blurred.
I'm also a pacificst, and we definately don't need women like Lynndie England in any Army.
But what if there is a draft, or cumpulsory military service, and men are sent to die in hand-to-hand combat, while women are spared that risk because of gender? Is that fair?
Dont get me wrong, I would never ask a woman to die in a battlefield, so why then, should I?
she was defended by her lawyer as she was not doing anything different than mothers putting a leash on their babies in shopping malls and the airports..
serious.
There IS a lot of slack in the leash......
Women can fly in combat, and they can serve in direct combat support roles. Look at the list of US war dead in iraq, and tell me there haven't already been women in combat.
STANCE DISCLAIMER: i am not advocating anyone being in combat, but it is undeniable that people are/will be in combat....BUT...
ArchAngel,
i don't understand your stance...
you wouldn't "ask a woman to serve in combat" because you don't want to either?
which sort of implies that you don't think women should serve (although we all understand you are of the DISCLAIMER) for some sort of gender/societal reason....
or
you don't understand why women are prohibited from combat? (which i am still unclear of whether this is true or not)
or
something else?
Last time I looked at that web site with the names of those killed on it looked like a pretty good number were women and plenty of those reservists getting hit with stop-loss are women.
I don’t know anything about the butch action movie stuff you guys are getting all hot and bothered about but it seems like the tough, sucky part of combat is hanging out in Iraq getting killed or mutilated and women are doing more of that than ever.
Some poor kid signing up for money for college, leadership, two weekends a month and ending up getting shipped off to die or kill for insanity an bullshit just seems like an absurd tragedy to me whether he’s an ultra-violent, racist, meat head or just some chick trying to get out of West Virginia. I don’t see any honor or patriotism here.
However, I think there still taking suckers if any of you desk-jockies feel like going out an trying to prove something about your masculinity.
Has anyone read “The Body in Pain†by Elaine Scary? That’s what I mean.
Women should be drafted, so in case there is a draft, Barbara and Jenna Bush can get drafted first.
Yeah, and what’s all this big-government draft stuff coming from the right-wingers here. If you like compulsory military service why don’t you move to France with the rest of the pinko sissies?
Steph
Thanks for the op to say it.
Women should be protected, or let to do whatever they want.
Most men think all women are beautiful in some way, and for them most men have an intrinisic sense of respect, and with them a different way of interacting - naturally.
Sending women off to war to die is actually more self-destructive than not defending your self against the enemy, as sacrificing the females is no way to perpertuate a species, group, race, political party - whatever - a cause, so historically women just haven't done certain things (women and children first). I also believe some women are able to do anything a man can do, and therefore, should be allowed to if they want and if they can "do".
If a woman wants to go to war let her, if she want 's to stay home and raise a family...great. I think the real question relating to this thread and the other 50/50 thread is; What percentage of women want to die in combat, and similarly, how many women want to be architects. You might find that the percentage of women who are architects and the percentage of women who participate in an all-voluntary Military is not the same as women in the workplace, generally.
That you are an architect does not mean all women want to be architects, but 45% do want to work, and no one is stopping them.
Clarification:
"That you are an architect does not mean all women want to be architects, but 45% do want to work, and no one is stopping them."
Should Read:
That you are an architect does not mean all women want to be architects, but they are 45% of the workforce and no one is stopping them.
Museschild, couldn't agree with you more.
there should not be a draft.
women should be able to volunteer for the armed sources as they wish.
personally, i'm not interested. if more men than women are interested in serving, then it won't be 50/50 or vice versa.
in architecture, it appears just as many women are interested in architecture as men, but something "happens" to them. i don't see the comparison.
yeah i dont either...
No women should be allowed on the front lines. Put them toward the back of the convoy where there is less armor plating. In reciprocal fairness, Palestinian women should not be allowed to strap explosive devices to themselves. Label me a sexist if you must.
so maybe we should make sure that we only bomb villages full of men too?
i agree about no draft. an all volunteer armed force will be better than forcing people to do something they may not want to do. i do worry about how the DOD is going to solve their readiness problem if they continue to over extend the troops they have now though.
i think the thing that links the two subjects, in my mind, is about creating environments that are healthy for women >> a place that supports and not discourages women from being involved. similarly, policies like "don't ask don't tell," are not healthy for gays and lesbians in the armed forces either and thus are not healthy for the armed services in general.
I think you are on to something stephanie. After the men are dead, the women can have slapping fights to work through their grievances and all will be peace and tranquility
has/is anyone on this board served/is serving?
e, that was fully as hell!
- you meant to say:
. . . "environments that are healthy for women"
"a place that supports and not discourages women from being (impacted by a bullet in the eye socket)"
I served my time in scouts and I hunted rabbits to eat. Not raw though, we weren't that hardcore.!
If women have a chance NOT to be forced to fight stupid wars then i sure won't object to that. Lucky them, that probably makes up for all the bullshit they have to deal with from their male peers on a daily basis... (and i'm probably one of them)
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