First i will apologize for any ortographic error in this post, Im an Architect from Dominican Repulic, Based in Buenos Aires Argentina, so my english its not very well. \
Im writting this pushed for my fustration working with Revit in the last 3 Month, im an expert user of Archicad, and i dont want to compare because i have 12 years using archicad.
The Political implementation of Revit in the Region as a Marketing and Sales extrategies are pushing architects to work on it against the Freedom of choose any plattaform to work on BIM Systems, Autodeskt its implementing a dirty strategy, direct selling to the Investors of the projects, whom didnt know about workflow on Design Apps, but they manage the money of the build enviroment, so if a investor ask you to work on Revit because a Sales man come to him office and told him he will save money so you need to kill yourself, othe Cases its the RealState Offices ( Whom didnt know about workflow on Design App), Constructors (They Know a little bit about the Workflow ) and the most serious move of Autodesk Black Machinary its going directly to the City Council and makes alliance with the council to push the architects to presents their projects in specific REVIT, not in BIM system i notice that in Barcelona, Buenos Aires, Chile and others country they are poisoning the market with their App.
And here we go
My goal its set to found "101 Things that i hate from Autodesk Revit", as a manifesto of their BAD development of Apps.
1 - Beams Projection you cant see it on Plans, unless you create a messy duplicate of the plan with the view proyection settled to cut the Beam. ( Architets we need projections what happend above and below our world)
2 - Rotate a Title on a Sheet its a Nightmare, you have to swim over the Familly of the Family of the Family to just Rotate a 2D logic Tag.
3- Beams doesnt have Strenght Hierarchy Over Walls Substraction Automaticly, Thats mean you need to control manual de Join of Elements and thats brings human errors on Cuantities Schedules so Unaccurrate cuantifications because the dependancy of the Human control of well Join of Elements.
4- The Same in Point 3 but floors over Beams Juntion.
5- View Templates / Visibiblity Graphics / Filters, you can access the same configuration throught differents way making this sometimes Confusing.
6- Interoperatibility its not well if you are not in autodesk enviroment, for example 3d conversion model from other app its not well imported to Revit if its not a Solid Model, Revit doesnt work with external mesh models.
7 - Too Many Differents Popup Menues.
8 - To model something special you neet to go out of the project, go to a family editor and fights with cateogories, Parameters, Types, Properties, Variables, etc etc etc. ( so you need an extra training in revit family to be a proeficient modeler.
9 - If you rotate a viewport in a sheet, drafting filled region on your drawing rotate against your original displacement for wrong Vizualization.
10 - Basic Family Library of the Program its really poor.
11- To change a family its not easy for a novice user, you nned to know a tricky specific place where something specific work, Generality control command its not allowed in this Program, once again Too Many popup Menues.
12 - Model Line Vs Detail Lines Why ? line its a line this increase memory consuming in the Kernel of the Program.
13 - View Scale Depends of the Scale in Plans. Why i cant nod model, and document in differents scales ?
14 - 2d Family DWG Clipping Mask its difficul to understand.
15- Theres not Booleans Operations.
16 - Not Perspective Mode work Allowed in 3D.
17 - Wall Joint control its really messy, you need to click, click, click on Blue dots to control this ( too many Click = Time Consuming = Cost )
18 - Its not posible to draw a anotate masking region inside a block in editing mode, you need to unblock, then draw and reblock again.
19 - Wall Opening Tool doesnt have Osnap to correct aproximation of the opening
20 - In sections, Same Hatch Materials doesnt Joint Automatic this is product of problems 1 and 3 in this list.
21 - 2D documentation Tools. Really ? its a dissaster
22 - External Family Manager Creator its needed because you spend to much time modeling or making something.
23 - To Model Something you must need to open a New project exclusive family creationg, thats increase the amount of computer consuming resourses, making the app too heavy.
24- REzise a family 2D tag its a nightmare once again Click in the famliy of the Family of the Family.
25 - Copy Elements to clipboard and paste aligned to selected Levels, Sometimes doesnt work as supose it
26 - 3D its not a good place to edit your model.
Im stop here for Today.
Help Will be welcome to find 101 Things that I hate from Revit.
People said that same kind of shit back in 1990 when firms were trying to decide to go with CAD or stick with hand drafting. Technology sucks sometimes, but it sure beats being a Luddite. Sounds like you need some more experience in the software and/or training.
When I transferred from Autocad to Revit I wanted to throw my computer out the window 3x a day. After countless tutorials, a 1100 page book, a few temper tantrums mixed with self pity I got the hang of it. Now a year and a half later I still have things to learn (screw your view range Revit! And your stairs sucks donkey jizz) All in all, it's more intuitive than most of the programs out there. BIM is awesome! It's the future of the construction industry. Finding manufacturers specs for downloadable items is still hit and miss. I rarely use the family editor, typically I model in place with enough LOD to suffice. Sorry for your bureaucratic nightmare. It sucks you are forced to use something while trying to make a profit. Good luck, if you are stuck with it, try your best to learn how to manipulate its functions to your will. Arizona Wood Warrior out.
Estoy contigo. Revit se vende como lo ultimo en la moda, pero no es tan bueno. La cuestion es que eso solo lo sabemos los que conocemos a su competencia o somos usuarios de otras aplicaciones BIM (Yo uso ArchiCAD y estoy aprendiendo Vectorworks). Es cuestion de tiempo para que los demas se den cuenta.
Adding to your rant against autodesk; when revit came about, autocad was left like the 5th child, unattended and doing really poorly, Have you noticed hatch patterns hadn't changed/improved in 25 years?
the thing that might annoy me most about autocad is that it's still built on various 10+ year old builds of c# (and probably c too), so you have to have all the old libraries. it just doesn't work. it's not like they're developing revit any better. just lazy. kids today, amiright?
mark, I've worked in all versions of autocad to date, even civil; never seen or worked in revit, no need to, we do mostly custom residential, really custom. And there are patterns out here by the materials manufacturers, but when you do install them in autocad, the pos doesn't like it and crashes every 5 minutes. For us, autocad is not a production tool for multiplying floor plans, but jus more convenient than having to erase pencil on mylar, and you can keep older versions of stuff for backup.
I can only agree with half of this sentiment. "hey, go pour that 10,000 SF floor slab with this shovel sized for a dwarf and this wheelbarrow with a broken wheel. For water you can use that hose over there that I put 100 holes into so that my kids could have a sprinkler."
May 21, 18 2:13 pm ·
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JonathanLivingston
No problem. as long as you are prepared for it to take forever and it will probably end up costing you more because you didn't invest in the right tools I'm going to mix and lay about 3 sf at a time. You will end up with a sort of patchwork, parquet look. totally unique, amazing craftsmanship.
I have a feel you will be going back and erasing some of these as you try and grow your list of 101 things. I hardly think 3 months is enough time to be this critical. Especially when many of your points are simply not true.
I tell all of my Revit students that if it feels like the process you are using is extremely long and clunky, there is probably a different way.
Come back after three years of using the program and re-evaluate your list. You may be surprised...
Give an imbecile the best tools and they will still fail. Give someone with intelligence the worst tools and they will still succeed.
+++ 'Pete
Mar 12, 15 1:38 pm ·
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theSudden
True or not, it's irrelevant. even if you are "intelligent", it's still a pain to have to use workarounds. Things should just work right and be intuitive.
I hate the messy wall join command. and I hate how complex some simple things become with Revit.
AutoCAD usually does not take more than a year to learn and be fully functional in, Revit is so very complex and in some instances not very intuitive. There are probably twice as many world wide users of CAD than Revit but we seem to have hundreds more Revit help blogs and websites than CAD.
I also hate how you can not spell check all the text in a drawing, if it is part of a tag or title block it doesn't have a spell check option. It should not be too hard to add a spell check to anything you can enter text into.
I, too, cannot believe how lame the spell checking is. I cannot tell you how many times I wanted to spell check a schedule!
I would argue that comparing learning Revit to CAD is comparing apples to oranges. Obviously learning a BIM authoring tool is going to be more complex and difficult than learning a drafting tool.
Having used AutoCAD for 5 years and Revit for 5 years after that I would still choose the Revit wall joining functionality than AutoCAD's red target of death!
So, fun fact. If say you downsized from 3 seats to 1 five years ago. And now you have work again and need to add 2 seats back. The fuzzy math is those 2 seats, rather than being new seats, are handled like past due subscriptions. They add together each years subscription rate going back 5 years... so it's 5 years x $2400 x 2 seats = $24,000 to get current. I laughed, pointed out the folly since a new seat is cheaper; they didn't get it.
btw; I'm lying about the fee because the subscription renewal rates change yearly and I wanted to use simple math. The actual upgrade proposal was $32k to bring 3 seats current and that was supposedly using special upgrade pricing... it was special alright...
So I hung up the phone since they wiped out the possibility of hiring someone to actually use the license. And to be honest, I've never really wanted to cheer on the pirate community as much as I do when it comes to pirating from Autodesk. I hate the company.
Just ranting on the subscription rates too. It's something like $2800 per seat annually. I absolutely do not see $2800 worth of 'betterment' in the product from one version to the next. I see simple upgrade/patching the older version with just a handful of new features I don't think I'll use or need. That means, if they sell 100,000 annual subscription seats... Autodesk has $280 million dollars worth of development.... um... I don't see that sort of development or support. I see a sick amount of greed. And that's just upgrades.
So... according to opensecrets, in 2011 alone autodesk spent a million on lobbyist just on the federal level. I'd imagine it was twenty-fold marketing and selling the 'need' to local governments, colleges, etc. They are part of the problem with the industry using money we give them to influence policy. Think about it next time you submit for a job and Revit is the required format.
Mar 13, 15 1:22 pm ·
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apscoradiales
Lawmakers should charge Autodesk with monopoly - surprised EU hasn't done that already.
I fully understand your frustration. I have been working on Revit for many years, taught it at the university, wrote blogs and tutorials and still cannot understand why it is so bad and why Autodesk - the giant behind does not want to improve it.
I am based in Hong Kong and recently initiated an official letter to Autodesk, which was signed by 15 major (really big) Hong Kong architectural companies. Please visit my website re-vit.com, where you can read and sign this letter. Similar initiative was also organised by Australian and New Zealand architects two years ago.
It looks like the movement against Autodesk greediness and, most importantly, BAD QUALITY of their products (I refer here mostly to Revit) is slowly gaining ground. It is still to slow however and not heard enough. Not surprisingly Autodesk does not seem to pay much attention.
So maybe it is time to consolidate the efforts of all frustrated, angry and ripped-off Autodesk users into a movement, which could make a change?
Jun 30, 16 4:55 am ·
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apscoradiales
They fix some of the issues in the next version.
Then, they'll fix some more in the subsequent version, and so on.
Each version or upgrade will cost you $5,000, but who cares, you can always charge that to the client - a client such as the government - private sector guy won't pay it, "You are f stupid if you think I'm paying you extra to fix spelling in your drawings".
A lot of the shit in the original post points to not taking the time to understand how Revit works.
If you can't fucking understand why detail and model lines are different and why each of them exists independently, you're either a moron, or haven't taken the time to think through it. And you can always model a family in place unless you're in LT (LT is a scam, you won't get any pushback from me on that)... the OP is just stupid or just doesn't know how to use Revit.
Also, 2.8k is pocket change in terms of how much less time I waste on fixed fee work on Revit vs CAD. Probably paid for itself 3 times over if I were to quantify it that way.
Revit is not making your life better You cannot draw in 3d mode Too many dialouges to change a colour of an item No preloaded library of families for a simple essential column Customization is a kaos Placing or rotating or moving text is a time wasting process
No way to differentiate between items above you and items below you such as walls or columns
Revit needs a lot more development
May 19, 18 8:49 pm ·
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Non Sequitur
none of those items are problems for me. Maybe you just need to learn how to use the tools.
May 19, 18 8:55 pm ·
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Sammumas2006
Iook in autocad you can move text smoothly and you can see exactly where it is placed
May 19, 18 9:01 pm ·
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Sammumas2006
Besides how to distinguish between lower ended columns and continuous columns and new starting columns
May 19, 18 9:04 pm ·
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Non Sequitur
learn to use the software
May 19, 18 9:05 pm ·
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Sammumas2006
It seems that you are expert I have already invested a lot of time working with it and I have asked a lot of its instructor to help me with such problems simply nobody answered me in how to show items from 3 successive floors in one plan users expected too much from revit becuase of autodesk marketing luckily my company switched back to
Commercial fit outs mostly. Know your shit. Setup Revit to work like it should. Be crazy organized. Stuff used to take about the same time as with CAD for the first 3 projects, then after that, when all my libraries and templates were set, shit just started rolling fast.
I've used ArchiCad since 1997 through 2012. Fast forward to 2018. I have been using Revit 17, selected by this current firm, and will say that the 2012 Archicad16 was better, and flowed smarter than today's version 17 Revit, hands down.
Oct 23, 18 12:01 pm ·
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tduds
Or maybe 15 years of familiarity with a platform makes things seem more intuitive than they might after a few months with a different platform.
Oct 23, 18 3:00 pm ·
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tduds
"I'm a native English speaker and after two semesters of Mandarin lessons I will say that English makes much more sense."
I have been using revit for the last 4 years. Our firm usually worked on large scale and complex projects. I can say for sure that yes revit is sure better then autocad.
4 month ago I started to work at another firm that uses Archicad (22) instead. And although I’m still learning to work with Archicad I can say for sure that it is way better software for architects .
With revit it was all slow and clumsy, besides it’s high cost the firm had to employ so called BIM specialists or revit “gurus “ to constantly sort problem out. The work flow was horrible and most of the workers just called revit a “world full of pain” nobody liked it especially even the more experienced architects that worked with it
There is though some things I loved with revit and wanted to see in Archicad as well like active dimensions groups and design options . But even without them i think Archicad is a better software for architects
Get over yourself and learn the program. I too was an autocad expert of 15 years. Now I am an Autocad Certified Revit Professional. Learn, grow and adapt, or be left behind.
Dec 3, 18 11:01 am ·
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randomised
Wouldn't expect anything else from an Autodesk Certified Revit Professional :)
Dec 3, 18 11:23 am ·
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Almosthip7
Whoop! Hey you have to come home with something more than a hangover when the company sends you to autodesk university in Vegas.
Dec 3, 18 11:40 am ·
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apscoradiales
They actually sent you to vegas and paid for it all?!!!
For those of you who dislike CAD, including me, just don't practice architecture. I promise you that you'll never see it again for the rest of your life.
I do not want people to call me a "CAD Technician", OK Maybe when 25 years ago I was 17. I call my self "functional design expert" I have specialized myself in "Industrial Piping", some 3 years ago I got a request from a Mechanical Design Build contractor to design a complicated Mechanical Room (about 60 equipment in a 1/8 floor)
Being industrial piping designers who are subject to stringent Engineering review and norms, working for overrated plumbers initially seemed easy, then we found their lack of knowledge was slowing us down. Neither they will accept our piping nor they will go to the consultant. Anyway coming to the point. This company is biggest in Vancouver. Now the owner has been blackmailed to buy Revit. I said "you dont need rivet, you are a plumber". He ha snow employed a "BIM Manager", I said "why do you need a BIM Manager"? We have strongly resisted that we will do piping only for MEchanical room, they can go to hell with the floors, we will do only in Isogen based system of our choice.
Mar 2, 19 11:33 pm ·
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atelier nobody
LOD 400 (or at least 300+) Revit models are increasingly becoming a project deliverable. Like it or not, piping is one of the more important parts of a complete model, especially when conflict checking.
Although I haven't used Arhcicad,I want it to give it a try.
There a few things about Revit that makes makes it non user friendly like the if you create custom materials, they materials don't stay inside the file like families or imported families end up in grey colour and don't retain their texture unlike how when you import your model into 3ds max,it retains it's texture.
May 19, 19 7:26 am ·
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SneakyPete
You're conflating issues. Likely the reason your export to rendering programs has grey revit objects is due to phasing overrides, and imported objects don't generally like to have revit materials on them at all, depending on the format. If I send my revit file to a third party, the materials go along for the ride, but the image files that are used within the appearance sets are external to the model. Considering some texture files can be quite large, I prefer that.
Love ArchiCAD! ArchiCAD is a design tool.. REVIT has superior documentation.
May 20, 19 1:58 pm ·
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atelier nobody
I'm not impressed with Revit documentation - I can still bang out a set of CDs in 2D CAD in less time.
May 20, 19 4:19 pm ·
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tduds
Depends on what you're doing. Kitchen renovation? Probably makes sense to just line draw everything. 30 story tower? If CAD is faster then you just haven't learned BIM.
Fine, if american's don't want to learn the depths of Revit, plenty of outsourcing firms in Mexico, Argentina, China and Russia will just take all of our jobs away.
Trying to hammer out a few sheets in AutoCAD today, after a decade or so of successfully avoiding it. All I can say is if BIM hadn't come along right around the time I got into the profession, I might have quit by now.
Love ArchiCAD. REVIT is purely a documentation tool. And for everyone who says its also a design tool because "technical drafting and coordination is design also," you can go kiss it. REVIT's graphics suck and it is incredibly difficult to really get a sense of what a space feels like in this software.
Meh, - it's just a tool. I design using Revit all the time. Also trace and marker, physical models, sketches, and even Formit.
Jun 12, 20 11:43 am ·
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Non Sequitur
graphics in revit suck if the user sucks. You can do plenty if you know what you're doing. Also worth noting that you don't need software to design, if so, you're a pretty shitty designer.
Bulgar, dont blame revit because you haven't mastered all the trick and tools.
Jun 12, 20 1:06 pm ·
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BulgarBlogger
Totally true: Revit is just a tool. However, you have to balance design with efficiency- right? Otherwise you'd be broke like Louis I Khan. The point is, that if you are going to use a software, why filter it through sketchup/rhino, only to then bring it into 3D Studio to render, and then ultimately into Revit to document? Makes no sense. Use one software from the beginning. ArchiCAD is your answer.
Jun 12, 20 1:17 pm ·
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Almosthip
I start the project in revit, design in revit, render in revit and document in revit. WhoTF is using that workflow. Only other program I use is Gimpshop for some post production of the renderings. Going on 10 years now ......smh
Surprised this thread got necro'd without Non complaining. I'll say I'm guessing Almosthip and Non don't actually do much designing. (no worries, neither do I). If we're going to start gatekeeping what designing is, saying construction details don't count, then I'm definitely not counting the phase where my bosses and the client play around with moving single-line boxes all over the place. That's really just programming/space-planning.
Rage Against Autodesk Revit - The BIM Scam
First i will apologize for any ortographic error in this post, Im an Architect from Dominican Repulic, Based in Buenos Aires Argentina, so my english its not very well. \
Im writting this pushed for my fustration working with Revit in the last 3 Month, im an expert user of Archicad, and i dont want to compare because i have 12 years using archicad.
The Political implementation of Revit in the Region as a Marketing and Sales extrategies are pushing architects to work on it against the Freedom of choose any plattaform to work on BIM Systems, Autodeskt its implementing a dirty strategy, direct selling to the Investors of the projects, whom didnt know about workflow on Design Apps, but they manage the money of the build enviroment, so if a investor ask you to work on Revit because a Sales man come to him office and told him he will save money so you need to kill yourself, othe Cases its the RealState Offices ( Whom didnt know about workflow on Design App), Constructors (They Know a little bit about the Workflow ) and the most serious move of Autodesk Black Machinary its going directly to the City Council and makes alliance with the council to push the architects to presents their projects in specific REVIT, not in BIM system i notice that in Barcelona, Buenos Aires, Chile and others country they are poisoning the market with their App.
And here we go
My goal its set to found "101 Things that i hate from Autodesk Revit", as a manifesto of their BAD development of Apps.
1 - Beams Projection you cant see it on Plans, unless you create a messy duplicate of the plan with the view proyection settled to cut the Beam. ( Architets we need projections what happend above and below our world)
2 - Rotate a Title on a Sheet its a Nightmare, you have to swim over the Familly of the Family of the Family to just Rotate a 2D logic Tag.
3- Beams doesnt have Strenght Hierarchy Over Walls Substraction Automaticly, Thats mean you need to control manual de Join of Elements and thats brings human errors on Cuantities Schedules so Unaccurrate cuantifications because the dependancy of the Human control of well Join of Elements.
4- The Same in Point 3 but floors over Beams Juntion.
5- View Templates / Visibiblity Graphics / Filters, you can access the same configuration throught differents way making this sometimes Confusing.
6- Interoperatibility its not well if you are not in autodesk enviroment, for example 3d conversion model from other app its not well imported to Revit if its not a Solid Model, Revit doesnt work with external mesh models.
7 - Too Many Differents Popup Menues.
8 - To model something special you neet to go out of the project, go to a family editor and fights with cateogories, Parameters, Types, Properties, Variables, etc etc etc. ( so you need an extra training in revit family to be a proeficient modeler.
9 - If you rotate a viewport in a sheet, drafting filled region on your drawing rotate against your original displacement for wrong Vizualization.
10 - Basic Family Library of the Program its really poor.
11- To change a family its not easy for a novice user, you nned to know a tricky specific place where something specific work, Generality control command its not allowed in this Program, once again Too Many popup Menues.
12 - Model Line Vs Detail Lines Why ? line its a line this increase memory consuming in the Kernel of the Program.
13 - View Scale Depends of the Scale in Plans. Why i cant nod model, and document in differents scales ?
14 - 2d Family DWG Clipping Mask its difficul to understand.
15- Theres not Booleans Operations.
16 - Not Perspective Mode work Allowed in 3D.
17 - Wall Joint control its really messy, you need to click, click, click on Blue dots to control this ( too many Click = Time Consuming = Cost )
18 - Its not posible to draw a anotate masking region inside a block in editing mode, you need to unblock, then draw and reblock again.
19 - Wall Opening Tool doesnt have Osnap to correct aproximation of the opening
20 - In sections, Same Hatch Materials doesnt Joint Automatic this is product of problems 1 and 3 in this list.
21 - 2D documentation Tools. Really ? its a dissaster
22 - External Family Manager Creator its needed because you spend to much time modeling or making something.
23 - To Model Something you must need to open a New project exclusive family creationg, thats increase the amount of computer consuming resourses, making the app too heavy.
24- REzise a family 2D tag its a nightmare once again Click in the famliy of the Family of the Family.
25 - Copy Elements to clipboard and paste aligned to selected Levels, Sometimes doesnt work as supose it
26 - 3D its not a good place to edit your model.
Im stop here for Today.
Help Will be welcome to find 101 Things that I hate from Revit.
Seriously, just post this on your blog or something. If you can't say it in one paragraph, then you clearly can't say it in a hundred trite point.
People said that same kind of shit back in 1990 when firms were trying to decide to go with CAD or stick with hand drafting. Technology sucks sometimes, but it sure beats being a Luddite. Sounds like you need some more experience in the software and/or training.
When I transferred from Autocad to Revit I wanted to throw my computer out the window 3x a day. After countless tutorials, a 1100 page book, a few temper tantrums mixed with self pity I got the hang of it. Now a year and a half later I still have things to learn (screw your view range Revit! And your stairs sucks donkey jizz) All in all, it's more intuitive than most of the programs out there. BIM is awesome! It's the future of the construction industry. Finding manufacturers specs for downloadable items is still hit and miss. I rarely use the family editor, typically I model in place with enough LOD to suffice. Sorry for your bureaucratic nightmare. It sucks you are forced to use something while trying to make a profit. Good luck, if you are stuck with it, try your best to learn how to manipulate its functions to your will. Arizona Wood Warrior out.
I still prefer Revit over ArchiCAD. None of your points are of any concern to me.
I don't care about your stupid feelings.
Good to know, but no one asked you anything.
I still prefer the Pencil over any CAD. Don't you just love globalization?
...and i prefer my stylus over your pencil. my ears are bleeding now... ;)
Estoy contigo. Revit se vende como lo ultimo en la moda, pero no es tan bueno. La cuestion es que eso solo lo sabemos los que conocemos a su competencia o somos usuarios de otras aplicaciones BIM (Yo uso ArchiCAD y estoy aprendiendo Vectorworks). Es cuestion de tiempo para que los demas se den cuenta.
ArchiCAD rules!!
I have heard great things about ArchiCAD
Adding to your rant against autodesk; when revit came about, autocad was left like the 5th child, unattended and doing really poorly, Have you noticed hatch patterns hadn't changed/improved in 25 years?
Miles & Larchinect
I'm rather fond my 6b 6mm dia graphite stick along with my 3" wide paintbrush and pallet knives.
JLC-1, doesn't revit use the same .pat file?
the thing that might annoy me most about autocad is that it's still built on various 10+ year old builds of c# (and probably c too), so you have to have all the old libraries. it just doesn't work. it's not like they're developing revit any better. just lazy. kids today, amiright?
mark, I've worked in all versions of autocad to date, even civil; never seen or worked in revit, no need to, we do mostly custom residential, really custom. And there are patterns out here by the materials manufacturers, but when you do install them in autocad, the pos doesn't like it and crashes every 5 minutes. For us, autocad is not a production tool for multiplying floor plans, but jus more convenient than having to erase pencil on mylar, and you can keep older versions of stuff for backup.
Give an imbecile the best tools and they will still fail. Give someone with intelligence the worst tools and they will still succeed.
I think you're experiencing a PEBKAC error.
I can only agree with half of this sentiment. "hey, go pour that 10,000 SF floor slab with this shovel sized for a dwarf and this wheelbarrow with a broken wheel. For water you can use that hose over there that I put 100 holes into so that my kids could have a sprinkler."
No problem. as long as you are prepared for it to take forever and it will probably end up costing you more because you didn't invest in the right tools I'm going to mix and lay about 3 sf at a time. You will end up with a sort of patchwork, parquet look. totally unique, amazing craftsmanship.
Imbeciles WROTE the software.
^ not sure what you're trying to say or why you suggest I'm a failing imbecile, are you a software engineer?
and there is no "problem between the chair and keyboard" ( look it up next time you try to be a smartpants, got the letters in the wrong order),
I'm just saying autocad and revit are not the "best" tools for what I do, and autocad fails in some of the ways I need it.
Thanks for a completely unnecessary comment.
I have a feel you will be going back and erasing some of these as you try and grow your list of 101 things. I hardly think 3 months is enough time to be this critical. Especially when many of your points are simply not true.
I tell all of my Revit students that if it feels like the process you are using is extremely long and clunky, there is probably a different way.
Come back after three years of using the program and re-evaluate your list. You may be surprised...
I think it's telling that you took my comment as directed at you, JLC.
It wasn't.
you are very sneaky, pete
Give an imbecile the best tools and they will still fail. Give someone with intelligence the worst tools and they will still succeed.
+++ 'Pete
True or not, it's irrelevant. even if you are "intelligent", it's still a pain to have to use workarounds. Things should just work right and be intuitive.
I hate the messy wall join command. and I hate how complex some simple things become with Revit.
AutoCAD usually does not take more than a year to learn and be fully functional in, Revit is so very complex and in some instances not very intuitive. There are probably twice as many world wide users of CAD than Revit but we seem to have hundreds more Revit help blogs and websites than CAD.
I also hate how you can not spell check all the text in a drawing, if it is part of a tag or title block it doesn't have a spell check option. It should not be too hard to add a spell check to anything you can enter text into.
And I hate the outrageous cost of the software
Over and OUT
Peter N
Peter,
I, too, cannot believe how lame the spell checking is. I cannot tell you how many times I wanted to spell check a schedule!
I would argue that comparing learning Revit to CAD is comparing apples to oranges. Obviously learning a BIM authoring tool is going to be more complex and difficult than learning a drafting tool.
Having used AutoCAD for 5 years and Revit for 5 years after that I would still choose the Revit wall joining functionality than AutoCAD's red target of death!
Cost ...
So, fun fact. If say you downsized from 3 seats to 1 five years ago. And now you have work again and need to add 2 seats back. The fuzzy math is those 2 seats, rather than being new seats, are handled like past due subscriptions. They add together each years subscription rate going back 5 years... so it's 5 years x $2400 x 2 seats = $24,000 to get current. I laughed, pointed out the folly since a new seat is cheaper; they didn't get it.
btw; I'm lying about the fee because the subscription renewal rates change yearly and I wanted to use simple math. The actual upgrade proposal was $32k to bring 3 seats current and that was supposedly using special upgrade pricing... it was special alright...
So I hung up the phone since they wiped out the possibility of hiring someone to actually use the license. And to be honest, I've never really wanted to cheer on the pirate community as much as I do when it comes to pirating from Autodesk. I hate the company.
^amen. you might want to look at dassault systemes, draftsight. Haven't tried the paid software, but the trial is pretty good.
AutoCAD usually does not take more than a year to learn and be fully functional in.
Revit doesn't either.
Just ranting on the subscription rates too. It's something like $2800 per seat annually. I absolutely do not see $2800 worth of 'betterment' in the product from one version to the next. I see simple upgrade/patching the older version with just a handful of new features I don't think I'll use or need. That means, if they sell 100,000 annual subscription seats... Autodesk has $280 million dollars worth of development.... um... I don't see that sort of development or support. I see a sick amount of greed. And that's just upgrades.
So... according to opensecrets, in 2011 alone autodesk spent a million on lobbyist just on the federal level. I'd imagine it was twenty-fold marketing and selling the 'need' to local governments, colleges, etc. They are part of the problem with the industry using money we give them to influence policy. Think about it next time you submit for a job and Revit is the required format.
Lawmakers should charge Autodesk with monopoly - surprised EU hasn't done that already.
XDXDXDXD... Paciencia
Dear Touissaint,
I fully understand your frustration. I have been working on Revit for many years, taught it at the university, wrote blogs and tutorials and still cannot understand why it is so bad and why Autodesk - the giant behind does not want to improve it.
I am based in Hong Kong and recently initiated an official letter to Autodesk, which was signed by 15 major (really big) Hong Kong architectural companies. Please visit my website re-vit.com, where you can read and sign this letter. Similar initiative was also organised by Australian and New Zealand architects two years ago.
It looks like the movement against Autodesk greediness and, most importantly, BAD QUALITY of their products (I refer here mostly to Revit) is slowly gaining ground. It is still to slow however and not heard enough. Not surprisingly Autodesk does not seem to pay much attention.
So maybe it is time to consolidate the efforts of all frustrated, angry and ripped-off Autodesk users into a movement, which could make a change?
They fix some of the issues in the next version.
Then, they'll fix some more in the subsequent version, and so on.
Each version or upgrade will cost you $5,000, but who cares, you can always charge that to the client - a client such as the government - private sector guy won't pay it, "You are f stupid if you think I'm paying you extra to fix spelling in your drawings".
So, guess how Autodesk makes money....
The only benefit of revit is that it's an easy term for job seekers to screen out various software architect positions
A lot of the shit in the original post points to not taking the time to understand how Revit works.
If you can't fucking understand why detail and model lines are different and why each of them exists independently, you're either a moron, or haven't taken the time to think through it. And you can always model a family in place unless you're in LT (LT is a scam, you won't get any pushback from me on that)... the OP is just stupid or just doesn't know how to use Revit.
Also, 2.8k is pocket change in terms of how much less time I waste on fixed fee work on Revit vs CAD. Probably paid for itself 3 times over if I were to quantify it that way.
This is a year old now, did we have to resurrect it?
"technology only sucks when you don't know it"
This right here ^^^^^
I believe Google is working on a replacement to Revit - called Fusion
Revit is not making your life better
You cannot draw in 3d mode
Too many dialouges to change a colour of an item
No preloaded library of families for a simple essential column
Customization is a kaos
Placing or rotating or moving text is a time wasting process
No way to differentiate between items above you and items below you such as walls or columns
Revit needs a lot more development
none of those items are problems for me. Maybe you just need to learn how to use the tools.
Iook in autocad you can move text smoothly and you can see exactly where it is placed
Besides how to distinguish between lower ended columns and continuous columns and new starting columns
learn to use the software
It seems that you are expert I have already invested a lot of time working with it and I have asked a lot of its instructor to help me with such problems simply nobody answered me in how to show items from 3 successive floors in one plan users expected too much from revit becuase of autodesk marketing luckily my company switched back to
l believe google will crate a superior software to dominate the market
Actually sketchup is a hit and it's users and popularity are increasing dramatically
Doubt google would have sold off sketchup if that was truly in the works. Keep on dreaming...
autodesk has to create from scratch a new bim
sure... much easier to demand they make something for simple-minded folks
With my simple mind i can guess that you recieve monthly checks from them
Look my brother other products like autocad or inventor or max or advance steel or robot are o.k. but revit I belive it can be much better
when it comes to architecture bim we have to suffer
Autodesk advance steel is dowing exactly what is expected its a good choice indeed
Autodesk inventor is amazing
Autodesk 3d max is perfect
But when it comes to revit actually Iam frustrated.
Fuck you I won't purge what you tell me.
Repeat 8 times for maximum effect.
Revit is like that old quip about democracy.
It's the worst software, except for everything else we've used.
There is better BIM software out there...
For example?
don't say archicad... don't say archicad... don't say...
sketchup
sketchup =\= BIM. FormZ on the other hand...
Sketchup is slowly getting more and more banned in our office, yay!
that gives me hope bench. good luck getting it permanently banned.
archicad!
Time to do a permit set in CAD: 5 days.
Time to do a permit set in Revit: 2 days.
I am not joining this bitchfest.
2 days! Are you permitting a cabinet?
2 days per drawing sheet perhaps...
Commercial fit outs mostly. Know your shit. Setup Revit to work like it should. Be crazy organized. Stuff used to take about the same time as with CAD for the first 3 projects, then after that, when all my libraries and templates were set, shit just started rolling fast.
Awesome
That's less design and more reprographics.
I've used ArchiCad since 1997 through 2012. Fast forward to 2018. I have been using Revit 17, selected by this current firm, and will say that the 2012 Archicad16 was better, and flowed smarter than today's version 17 Revit, hands down.
Or maybe 15 years of familiarity with a platform makes things seem more intuitive than they might after a few months with a different platform.
"I'm a native English speaker and after two semesters of Mandarin lessons I will say that English makes much more sense."
@YoAdrian 100%
I have been using revit for the last 4 years. Our firm usually worked on large scale and complex projects. I can say for sure that yes revit is sure better then autocad.
4 month ago I started to work at another firm that uses Archicad (22) instead. And although I’m still learning to work with Archicad I can say for sure that it is way better software for architects .
With revit it was all slow and clumsy, besides it’s high cost the firm had to employ so called BIM specialists or revit “gurus “ to constantly sort problem out. The work flow was horrible and most of the workers just called revit a “world full of pain” nobody liked it especially even the more experienced architects that worked with it
There is though some things I loved with revit and wanted to see in Archicad as well like active dimensions groups and design options . But even without them i think Archicad is a better software for architects
Get over yourself and learn the program. I too was an autocad expert of 15 years. Now I am an Autocad Certified Revit Professional. Learn, grow and adapt, or be left behind.
Wouldn't expect anything else from an Autodesk Certified Revit Professional :)
Whoop! Hey you have to come home with something more than a hangover when the company sends you to autodesk university in Vegas.
They actually sent you to vegas and paid for it all?!!!
Holly shiet!
For those of you who dislike CAD, including me, just run your business and hire someone else to do the CAD things for you.
For those of you who dislike CAD, including me, just don't practice architecture. I promise you that you'll never see it again for the rest of your life.
I do not want people to call me a "CAD Technician", OK Maybe when 25 years ago I was 17. I call my self "functional design expert" I have specialized myself in "Industrial Piping", some 3 years ago I got a request from a Mechanical Design Build contractor to design a complicated Mechanical Room (about 60 equipment in a 1/8 floor)
Being industrial piping designers who are subject to stringent Engineering review and norms, working for overrated plumbers initially seemed easy, then we found their lack of knowledge was slowing us down. Neither they will accept our piping nor they will go to the consultant. Anyway coming to the point. This company is biggest in Vancouver. Now the owner has been blackmailed to buy Revit. I said "you dont need rivet, you are a plumber". He ha snow employed a "BIM Manager", I said "why do you need a BIM Manager"? We have strongly resisted that we will do piping only for MEchanical room, they can go to hell with the floors, we will do only in Isogen based system of our choice.
LOD 400 (or at least 300+) Revit models are increasingly becoming a project deliverable. Like it or not, piping is one of the more important parts of a complete model, especially when conflict checking.
Although I haven't used Arhcicad,I want it to give it a try.
There a few things about Revit that makes makes it non user friendly like the if you create custom materials, they materials don't stay inside the file like families or imported families end up in grey colour and don't retain their texture unlike how when you import your model into 3ds max,it retains it's texture.
You're conflating issues. Likely the reason your export to rendering programs has grey revit objects is due to phasing overrides, and imported objects don't generally like to have revit materials on them at all, depending on the format. If I send my revit file to a third party, the materials go along for the ride, but the image files that are used within the appearance sets are external to the model. Considering some texture files can be quite large, I prefer that.
Love ArchiCAD! ArchiCAD is a design tool.. REVIT has superior documentation.
I'm not impressed with Revit documentation - I can still bang out a set of CDs in 2D CAD in less time.
Depends on what you're doing. Kitchen renovation? Probably makes sense to just line draw everything. 30 story tower? If CAD is faster then you just haven't learned BIM.
I'm just glad there's so many people who take themselves out of the employment pool.
Fine, if american's don't want to learn the depths of Revit, plenty of outsourcing firms in Mexico, Argentina, China and Russia will just take all of our jobs away.
and Canada :P
Canadian firms outsource to Bangladesh.
Swear to God.
no we don't and you can swear to whatever invisible non-existent deity you want. Means nothing.
Trying to hammer out a few sheets in AutoCAD today, after a decade or so of successfully avoiding it. All I can say is if BIM hadn't come along right around the time I got into the profession, I might have quit by now.
What an inefficient process this is.
Autodesk = Criminal Organisation worthy of Mafia.
Any client (particularly the government) requiring that drawings be done in latest version of ACAD or Revit are complicit in the crime.
Love ArchiCAD. REVIT is purely a documentation tool. And for everyone who says its also a design tool because "technical drafting and coordination is design also," you can go kiss it. REVIT's graphics suck and it is incredibly difficult to really get a sense of what a space feels like in this software.
Meh, - it's just a tool. I design using Revit all the time. Also trace and marker, physical models, sketches, and even Formit.
graphics in revit suck if the user sucks. You can do plenty if you know what you're doing. Also worth noting that you don't need software to design, if so, you're a pretty shitty designer.
Bulgar, dont blame revit because you haven't mastered all the trick and tools.
Totally true: Revit is just a tool. However, you have to balance design with efficiency- right? Otherwise you'd be broke like Louis I Khan. The point is, that if you are going to use a software, why filter it through sketchup/rhino, only to then bring it into 3D Studio to render, and then ultimately into Revit to document? Makes no sense. Use one software from the beginning. ArchiCAD is your answer.
I start the project in revit, design in revit, render in revit and document in revit. WhoTF is using that workflow. Only other program I use is Gimpshop for some post production of the renderings. Going on 10 years now ......smh
I do start to finish in revit. no issues.
Surprised this thread got necro'd without Non complaining. I'll say I'm guessing Almosthip and Non don't actually do much designing. (no worries, neither do I). If we're going to start gatekeeping what designing is, saying construction details don't count, then I'm definitely not counting the phase where my bosses and the client play around with moving single-line boxes all over the place. That's really just programming/space-planning.
Like I said ....I design and document in revit.
Joe, I do a bit of everything including design and can do it all within revit.
Funny...
My blood pressure rises when I read about issues with Revit.
So, I will not read nor comment on this thread any more.
Bye!
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