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Rage Against Autodesk Revit - The BIM Scam

First i will apologize for any ortographic error in this post, Im an Architect from Dominican Repulic, Based in Buenos Aires Argentina, so my english its not very well. \

Im writting this pushed  for my fustration working with Revit in the last 3 Month, im an expert user of Archicad, and i dont want to compare because i have 12 years using archicad.

The Political implementation of Revit in the Region as a Marketing and Sales extrategies are pushing  architects to work on it against  the Freedom of choose any plattaform to work on BIM Systems, Autodeskt its implementing a dirty strategy,  direct selling to the Investors of the projects, whom didnt know about workflow on Design Apps, but they manage the money of the build enviroment, so if a investor ask you to work on Revit because a Sales man come to him office and told him he will save money so you need to kill yourself,   othe Cases its the RealState Offices ( Whom didnt know about workflow on Design App), Constructors (They Know a little bit about the Workflow )  and the most serious move of Autodesk Black Machinary its going  directly to the City Council and makes alliance with the council to push the architects to presents their projects in specific REVIT, not in BIM system i notice that in Barcelona, Buenos Aires, Chile and others country they are poisoning the market with their App. 

 

And here we go 

My goal its set to found "101 Things that i hate from Autodesk Revit", as a manifesto of their BAD development of Apps. 

 

1 - Beams Projection you cant see it on Plans, unless you create a messy duplicate of the plan with the view proyection settled to cut the Beam.  ( Architets we need projections what happend above and below our world)

2 - Rotate a Title on a Sheet its a Nightmare, you have to swim over the Familly of the Family of the Family  to just Rotate a 2D logic Tag.

3- Beams doesnt have Strenght Hierarchy Over Walls Substraction Automaticly, Thats mean you need to control manual de Join of Elements and thats brings human errors on Cuantities Schedules so Unaccurrate cuantifications because the dependancy of the Human control of well Join of Elements.

4- The Same in Point 3 but floors over Beams Juntion.

5- View Templates / Visibiblity Graphics / Filters, you can access the same configuration throught differents way making this sometimes Confusing.

6- Interoperatibility its not well if you are not in autodesk enviroment, for example 3d conversion model from other app its not well imported to Revit if its not a Solid Model, Revit doesnt work with external mesh models.

7 - Too Many Differents Popup Menues.

8 - To model something special you neet to go out of the project, go to a family editor and fights with cateogories, Parameters, Types, Properties, Variables, etc etc etc.  ( so you need an extra training in revit family to be a proeficient modeler.

9 - If you rotate a viewport in a sheet, drafting filled region on your drawing rotate  against your original displacement for wrong Vizualization.

10 - Basic Family Library of the Program its really poor.

11- To change a family its not easy for a novice user, you nned to know a tricky specific place where something specific work, Generality control command its not allowed in this Program, once again Too Many popup Menues.

12 - Model Line Vs Detail Lines  Why ?   line its a line this increase  memory consuming  in the Kernel of the Program. 

13 - View Scale Depends of the Scale in Plans.  Why i cant nod model, and document in differents scales ?

14 - 2d Family DWG Clipping Mask its difficul to understand. 

15- Theres not Booleans Operations. 

16 - Not Perspective Mode work Allowed in 3D.

17 - Wall Joint control its really messy, you need to click, click, click on Blue dots to control this ( too many Click = Time Consuming = Cost )

18 - Its not posible to draw a anotate masking region inside a block in editing mode, you need to unblock, then draw and reblock again.

19 - Wall Opening Tool doesnt have Osnap to correct aproximation of the opening

20 - In sections, Same Hatch Materials doesnt Joint Automatic this is product of problems 1 and 3 in this list.

21 - 2D documentation Tools.   Really ?  its a dissaster

22 - External Family Manager Creator its needed because you spend to much time modeling or making something.

23 - To Model Something you must need to open a New project exclusive family creationg, thats increase the amount of computer consuming resourses, making the app too heavy. 

24- REzise a family 2D tag its a nightmare once again Click in the famliy of the Family of the Family. 

25 - Copy Elements to clipboard and paste aligned to selected Levels, Sometimes doesnt  work as supose  it  

26 - 3D its not a good place to edit your model. 

 

Im stop here for Today. 

Help Will be welcome to find 101 Things that I hate from Revit. 

 
Mar 11, 15 8:20 pm
verticalgaze

Seriously,  just post this on your blog or something. If you can't say it in one paragraph, then you clearly can't say it in a hundred trite point.

Mar 11, 15 8:31 pm
chigurh

People said that same kind of shit back in 1990 when firms were trying to decide to go with CAD or stick with hand drafting.  Technology sucks sometimes, but it sure beats being a Luddite.  Sounds like you need some more experience in the software and/or training.   

Mar 11, 15 9:28 pm
Non Sequitur

I still prefer Revit over ArchiCAD. None of your points are of any concern to me.

Mar 11, 15 9:52 pm

I still prefer the Pencil over any CAD. Don't you just love globalization?

Mar 11, 15 10:09 pm
Larchinect

...and i prefer my stylus over your pencil. my ears are bleeding now... ;)

Mar 12, 15 2:53 am
JHPorras

Estoy contigo. Revit se vende como lo ultimo en la moda, pero no es tan bueno. La cuestion es que eso solo lo sabemos los que conocemos a su competencia o somos usuarios de otras aplicaciones BIM (Yo uso ArchiCAD y estoy aprendiendo Vectorworks). Es cuestion de tiempo para que los demas se den cuenta.

ArchiCAD rules!!

Mar 12, 15 7:07 am
JLC-1

Adding to your rant against autodesk; when revit came about, autocad was left like the 5th child, unattended and doing really poorly, Have you noticed hatch patterns hadn't changed/improved in 25 years? 

Mar 12, 15 9:51 am
Non Sequitur

Miles & Larchinect

I'm rather fond my 6b 6mm dia graphite stick along with my 3" wide paintbrush and pallet knives.

Mar 12, 15 10:05 am
curtkram

JLC-1, doesn't revit use the same .pat file?

the thing that might annoy me most about autocad is that it's still built on various 10+ year old builds of c# (and probably c too), so you have to have all the old libraries.  it just doesn't work.  it's not like they're developing revit any better.  just lazy.  kids today, amiright?

Mar 12, 15 10:36 am
JLC-1

mark, I've worked in all versions of autocad to date, even civil; never seen or worked in revit, no need to, we do mostly custom residential, really custom. And there are patterns out here by the materials manufacturers, but when you do install them in autocad, the pos doesn't like it and crashes every 5 minutes. For us, autocad is not a production tool for multiplying floor plans, but jus more convenient than having to erase pencil on mylar, and you can keep older versions of stuff for backup.

Mar 12, 15 11:34 am
SneakyPete

Give an imbecile the best tools and they will still fail. Give someone with intelligence the worst tools and they will still succeed.

 

I think you're experiencing a PEBKAC error.

Mar 12, 15 11:56 am
joseffischer

I can only agree with half of this sentiment. "hey, go pour that 10,000 SF floor slab with this shovel sized for a dwarf and this wheelbarrow with a broken wheel. For water you can use that hose over there that I put 100 holes into so that my kids could have a sprinkler."

JonathanLivingston

No problem. as long as you are prepared for it to take forever and it will probably end up costing you more because you didn't invest in the right tools I'm going to mix and lay about 3 sf at a time. You will end up with a sort of patchwork, parquet look. totally unique, amazing craftsmanship.

JLC-1

^ not sure what you're trying to say or why you suggest I'm a failing imbecile, are you a software engineer? 

and there is no "problem between the chair and keyboard" ( look it up next time you try to be a smartpants, got the letters in the wrong order), 

I'm just saying autocad and revit are not the "best" tools for what I do, and autocad fails in some of the ways I need it. 

Thanks for a completely unnecessary comment.

Mar 12, 15 12:20 pm
TheRevitKid

I have a feel you will be going back and erasing some of these as you try and grow your list of 101 things.  I hardly think 3 months is enough time to be this critical.  Especially when many of your points are simply not true. 

I tell all of my Revit students that if it feels like the process you are using is extremely long and clunky, there is probably a different way. 

Come back after three years of using the program and re-evaluate your list.  You may be surprised...

Mar 12, 15 12:40 pm
SneakyPete

I think it's telling that you took my comment as directed at you, JLC.

 

It wasn't.

Mar 12, 15 12:51 pm
JLC-1

you are very sneaky, pete

Mar 12, 15 12:56 pm

Give an imbecile the best tools and they will still fail. Give someone with intelligence the worst tools and they will still succeed.

 

+++ 'Pete

Mar 12, 15 1:38 pm

I hate the messy wall join command. and I hate how complex some simple things become with Revit.

AutoCAD usually does not take more than a year to learn and be fully functional in, Revit is so very complex and in some instances not very intuitive. There are probably twice as many world wide users of CAD than Revit but we seem to have hundreds more Revit help blogs and websites than CAD.

 

I also hate how you can not spell check all the text in a drawing, if it is part of a tag or title block it doesn't have a spell check option.  It should not be too hard to add a spell check to anything you can enter text into.

And I hate the outrageous cost of the software

Over and OUT

Peter N

Mar 12, 15 1:43 pm
TheRevitKid

Peter, 

I, too, cannot believe how lame the spell checking is.  I cannot tell you how many times I wanted to spell check a schedule!  

I would argue that comparing learning Revit to CAD is comparing apples to oranges. Obviously learning a BIM authoring tool is going to be more complex and difficult than learning a drafting tool.

Having used AutoCAD for 5 years and Revit for 5 years after that I would still choose the Revit wall joining functionality than AutoCAD's red target of death!  

 

Mar 12, 15 4:06 pm
gruen
It took me a solid year to like revit. I'd still use it if I could afford it.
Mar 12, 15 5:50 pm
mightyaa

Cost ...

So, fun fact.  If say you downsized from 3 seats to 1 five years ago.  And now you have work again and need to add 2 seats back.  The fuzzy math is those 2 seats, rather than being new seats, are handled like past due subscriptions.  They add together each years subscription rate going back 5 years... so it's 5 years x $2400 x 2 seats = $24,000 to get current.  I laughed, pointed out the folly since a new seat is cheaper; they didn't get it.  

btw; I'm lying about the fee because the subscription renewal rates change yearly and I wanted to use simple math.  The actual upgrade proposal was $32k to bring 3 seats current and that was supposedly using special upgrade pricing... it was special alright...

So I hung up the phone since they wiped out the possibility of hiring someone to actually use the license.  And to be honest, I've never really wanted to cheer on the pirate community as much as I do when it comes to pirating from Autodesk.  I hate the company.

Mar 12, 15 6:30 pm
JLC-1

^amen. you might want to look at dassault systemes, draftsight. Haven't tried the paid software, but the trial is pretty good. 

Mar 13, 15 10:11 am
natematt

AutoCAD usually does not take more than a year to learn and be fully functional in.

Revit doesn't either.

Mar 13, 15 10:52 am
mightyaa

Just ranting on the subscription rates too.  It's something like $2800 per seat annually.  I absolutely do not see $2800 worth of 'betterment' in the product from one version to the next.  I see simple upgrade/patching the older version with just a handful of new features I don't think I'll use or need.  That means, if they sell 100,000 annual subscription seats... Autodesk has $280 million dollars worth of development.... um... I don't see that sort of development or support.   I see a sick amount of greed.  And that's just upgrades.

So... according to opensecrets, in 2011 alone autodesk spent a million on lobbyist just on the federal level.  I'd imagine it was twenty-fold marketing and selling the 'need' to local governments, colleges, etc.  They are part of the problem with the industry using money we give them to influence policy.  Think about it next time you submit for a job and Revit is the required format. 

Mar 13, 15 1:22 pm
JHPorras

XDXDXDXD... Paciencia

Mar 13, 15 6:40 pm

Dear Touissaint,

I fully understand your frustration. I have been working on Revit for many years, taught it at the university, wrote blogs and tutorials and still cannot understand why it is so bad and why Autodesk - the giant behind does not want to improve it. 

I am based in Hong Kong and recently initiated an official letter to Autodesk, which was signed by 15 major (really big) Hong Kong architectural companies. Please visit my website re-vit.com, where you can read and sign this letter. Similar initiative was also organised by Australian and New Zealand architects two years ago. 

It looks like the movement against Autodesk greediness and, most importantly, BAD QUALITY of their products (I refer here mostly to Revit) is slowly gaining ground. It is still to slow however and not heard enough. Not surprisingly Autodesk does not seem to pay much attention.

So maybe it is time to consolidate the efforts of all frustrated, angry and ripped-off Autodesk users into a movement, which could make a change?

Jun 30, 16 4:55 am
shellarchitect

The only benefit of revit is that it's an easy term for job seekers to screen out various software architect positions

Jun 30, 16 6:29 am
null pointer

A lot of the shit in the original post points to not taking the time to understand how Revit works.

If you can't fucking understand why detail and model lines are different and why each of them exists independently, you're either a moron, or haven't taken the time to think through it. And you can always model a family in place unless you're in LT (LT is a scam, you won't get any pushback from me on that)... the OP is just stupid or just doesn't know how to use Revit.

Also, 2.8k is pocket change in terms of how much less time I waste on fixed fee work on Revit vs CAD. Probably paid for itself 3 times over if I were to quantify it that way.

Jun 30, 16 11:01 am
archiwutm8

This is a year old now, did we have to resurrect it?

Jun 30, 16 11:13 am
Xenakis

"technology only sucks when you don't know it"

Jun 30, 16 11:42 am
Almosthip7

This right here ^^^^^

Xenakis

I believe Google is working on a replacement to Revit - called Fusion

Jun 30, 16 12:08 pm
Sammumas2006

Revit is not making your life better
You cannot draw in 3d mode
Too many dialouges to change a colour of an item
No preloaded library of families for a simple essential column
Customization is a kaos
Placing or rotating or moving  text is a time wasting process


No way to differentiate between items above you and items below you such as walls or columns


Revit needs a lot more development





May 19, 18 8:49 pm
Non Sequitur

none of those items are problems for me. Maybe you just need to learn how to use the tools.

Sammumas2006

Iook in autocad you can move text smoothly and you can see exactly where it is placed

Sammumas2006

Besides how to distinguish between lower ended columns and continuous columns and new starting columns

Non Sequitur

learn to use the software

Sammumas2006

It seems that you are expert I have already invested a lot of time working with it and I have asked a lot of its instructor to help me with such problems simply nobody answered me in how to show items from 3 successive floors in one plan users expected too much from revit becuase of autodesk marketing luckily my company switched back to

Sammumas2006

l believe google will crate a superior software to dominate the market


Actually sketchup is a hit and it's users and popularity are increasing dramatically

May 19, 18 8:58 pm
Sam Apoc

Doubt google would have sold off sketchup if that was truly in the works. Keep on dreaming...

Sammumas2006

autodesk has to create from scratch a new bim 

May 19, 18 9:07 pm
Non Sequitur

sure... much easier to demand they make something for simple-minded folks

Sammumas2006

With my simple mind i can guess that you recieve monthly checks from them

Sammumas2006

Look my brother other products like autocad or inventor or max or advance steel or robot are o.k. but revit I belive it can be much better

Sammumas2006

when it comes to architecture bim we have to suffer


Autodesk advance steel is dowing exactly what is expected its a good choice indeed


Autodesk inventor is amazing


Autodesk 3d max is perfect


But when it comes to revit actually Iam frustrated.



May 19, 18 9:28 pm
randomised

Fuck you I won't purge what you tell me.

May 22, 18 2:32 am
Non Sequitur

Repeat 8 times for maximum effect.

tduds

Revit is like that old quip about democracy.

It's the worst software, except for everything else we've used.

May 22, 18 8:15 pm
randomised

There is better BIM software out there...

tduds

For example?

Non Sequitur

don't say archicad... don't say archicad... don't say...

curtkram

sketchup

Non Sequitur

sketchup =\= BIM. FormZ on the other hand...

Bench

Sketchup is slowly getting more and more banned in our office, yay!

curtkram

that gives me hope bench. good luck getting it permanently banned.

null pointer

Time to do a permit set in CAD: 5 days.

Time to do a permit set in Revit: 2 days.


I am not joining this bitchfest.

May 24, 18 12:04 pm
tduds

2 days! Are you permitting a cabinet?

Non Sequitur

2 days per drawing sheet perhaps...

null pointer

Commercial fit outs mostly. Know your shit. Setup Revit to work like it should. Be crazy organized. Stuff used to take about the same time as with CAD for the first 3 projects, then after that, when all my libraries and templates were set, shit just started rolling fast.

YoAdrian

I've used ArchiCad since 1997 through 2012.  Fast forward to 2018.   I have been using Revit 17, selected by this current firm, and will say that the 2012 Archicad16 was better, and flowed smarter than today's version 17 Revit, hands down.    


Oct 23, 18 12:01 pm
tduds

Or maybe 15 years of familiarity with a platform makes things seem more intuitive than they might after a few months with a different platform.

tduds

"I'm a native English speaker and after two semesters of Mandarin lessons I will say that English makes much more sense."

M. B. A. R. C. H.

I have been using revit for the last 4 years. Our firm usually worked on large scale and complex projects. I can say for sure that yes revit is sure better then autocad.  


4 month ago I started to work at another firm that uses Archicad (22) instead.  And although I’m still learning to work with Archicad I can say for sure that it is way better software for architects .


With revit it was all slow and clumsy, besides it’s high cost the firm had to employ so called BIM specialists or revit “gurus “ to constantly sort problem out. The work flow was horrible and most of the workers just called revit a “world full of pain” nobody liked it especially even the more experienced architects that worked with it




There is though some things I loved with revit and wanted to see in Archicad as well like active dimensions  groups and design options . But even without them i think Archicad is a better software for architects 







Dec 3, 18 10:52 am
Almosthip7

Get over yourself and learn the program.  I too was an autocad expert of 15 years.   Now I am an Autocad Certified Revit Professional.  Learn, grow and adapt, or be left behind.

Dec 3, 18 11:01 am
randomised

Wouldn't expect anything else from an Autodesk Certified Revit Professional :)

Almosthip7

Whoop! Hey you have to come home with something more than a hangover when the company sends you to autodesk university in Vegas.

88Buildings

For those of you who dislike CAD, including me, just run your business and hire someone else to do the CAD things for you. 

Dec 5, 18 11:57 am

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