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Rage Against Autodesk Revit - The BIM Scam

179
alikatircioglu

ArchiCAD? lol

Jun 12, 20 2:18 pm  · 
 · 
Almosthip7

Love how users who don’t understand how to utilize a program effectively and efficiently and so quick to blame the program instead of their inability to use it.

Jun 12, 20 2:32 pm  · 
1  ·  1
Almosthip7

Damn apparently I don’t understand how to use forums because this was supposed to be a response to the tread not this comment. I blame myself not archinect

Jun 12, 20 2:33 pm  · 
1  ·  1
Non Sequitur

I just love that alikatircioglu's only reason to exist is to give me thumbs downs.

Jun 12, 20 2:51 pm  · 
2  ·  1
BulgarBlogger

I love ArchiCAD- but you know what sucks? GDL!

Nov 1, 20 2:07 pm  · 
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harbir1975

To me revit is a good software ..I have no doubt about it ..i am into BIM as BIM Coordinator  for more than 8 years now..but to me when comes to CD ..revit is still not there yet to handle by its self  ..where revit can replaced Autocad as production  drawings  ..no mater what we still need revit and autocad to work the CD together.

but in the future yes ..one day revit might can runs a one man show software's to replace autocad and others software's .  

but in revit we know they are controlling in the market now and lucky me ..when I learn BIM software's ..I was using revit ..but not others software's ..before than I was a Project architects which runs quite a big scales projects such as shopping malls ,complex's , high rise residential apartment and etc ...its starts by revit ..and again I was lucky ..coz its was a new things  to me in the market . 

But there also have cons and pros about revit ..we all know that ..when coordination BIM models translating into documentation construction  drawing its really pain in the ass ..lol..but to me I got used to it ..but some firms preferred to be fully BIM but some firms not really. Its all depends what firm you are working with and what typology of project you are working on ..also important who is your bosses or director..CEO ..etc ..they need to be educated first what is BIM!!..

Thanks 

Harry 


Dec 23, 20 8:58 pm  · 
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Koww

I love how there's a whole setting page to override visibility... but it's disabled so you can't override visibility

Mar 10, 21 3:13 pm  · 
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Only if you don't know what you're doing.

Mar 10, 21 3:18 pm  · 
2  · 
Koww

you're ignored mate. have fun with your stupid face

Mar 10, 21 3:43 pm  · 
1  ·  2
tduds

Can't say I've ever had that problem.

Mar 10, 21 4:20 pm  · 
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natematt

Try turning off the view template :)

Mar 10, 21 4:23 pm  · 
4  · 
Koww

i know... but then you lose all the other parts of template you don't want to override

Mar 10, 21 5:13 pm  · 
 ·  1
Almosthip

You could always change the template setting or apply temporary view properties


Mar 10, 21 6:09 pm  · 
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☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

Yep, and there's still another way around it, in a view.

Mar 10, 21 6:09 pm  · 
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tduds

The more replies in this thread the less I understand what the problem is.

Mar 10, 21 6:18 pm  · 
3  · 
Non Sequitur

Just learn how templates work and all your problems will be solved. It’s really not that hard.

Mar 10, 21 6:20 pm  · 
1  · 
natematt

NS.

Sometimes I wonder. I cannot count the number of times I've had to explain to people how they should be using templates... or not using templates. 

I once put together a dynamo script to remove all templates from a project so that the executive architect we were sending our files to didn't have to deal with them, because they didn't want them. Was like, sure we can do that, as long as I never have to look at these files again... 

I'm not a BIM/Cad person though, just an architect, and I don't think it's that hard. 

Mar 10, 21 7:48 pm  · 
4  · 
☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

speaking of cool revit shit, anyone else running pyrevit?

Mar 10, 21 8:05 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

How can you work without it?

Mar 10, 21 8:20 pm  · 
1  · 
☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

SP is that to me?

Mar 10, 21 8:24 pm  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

Beta, I have not but I have spent the last 10minutes looking into it.... just having the option to select multiple sheets when adding a revision is sweet enough.

Also noticed there is a feature that will tell you which user moved that column off grid (or created 8 million rooms in-lieu of office cubicles).  

Mar 10, 21 8:34 pm  · 
4  · 
☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

Plus, the way you can print sheets! Genius.

Mar 10, 21 9:21 pm  · 
2  · 
Non Sequitur

that 10min turned to 30 quickly...

Mar 10, 21 9:27 pm  · 
2  · 
joseffischer

back up.... wait what? you guys named fixes to multiple problems I have weekly..daily even. I was not looking to getting into anything dynamo/coding/etc at this point in my career, but I guess I'll have to look into pyrevit

Jun 25, 21 9:44 pm  · 
1  · 
SlammingMiruvor

Pyrevit is a game changer, their keynote manager is pretty slick, and free. A lot of other great tools in the software, but that one in particular is worth using alone. Off the top of my head viewport renumbering and custom pattern creation are very useful. 

Jun 28, 21 5:34 pm  · 
 · 

MARCH 11, 2015 was the day I posted this. 

Let me resurect this thread. and give it a bit of context. 

I'm a 20 years experience architect by the time of this post I was 11 years of experienced. 

I have Masters in Architectural Advanced Design, Bachelour in Architecture with concentration in Building Systems and Construction and an Associate Diploma in computer Science. as well Studies in Parametric Design, Digital Fabrication and advanced computer simulations. 

I've been in front of a computer since I'm 10 so I'm been dealing with Software since Command promt and when computer were only amber, green, or orange letters screens. 

I speak 2 languages, I have worked in more than 100 projects in my entire career, I can draw, design, code, etc etc etc.   I consider myself a Power User of any digital design technology in the AEC industry out there. 

9 years after my 101 things I hate from Revit. 

NOTHING HAS CHANGED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Project Teams spend 30% of their time throubleshoothing in the following areas. 

View Templates.
Syncronization. 
Model Coordinations. 
If you look to my 23 points of 9 years ago AUTODESK is the worst company out there driving us crazy and forcing architects and designers to do whatever they want. 

On august 24th 2020
this was a huge header in the AEC world. 

"Open letter to Autodesk swells to over 100 signatories and supporters"

https://www.archpaper.com/2020...

I think I was 5 years ahead with this post. 

so Happy thursday to everyone and compasion to everyone who has a deadline this week. 


Jan 25, 24 1:47 pm  · 
8  · 
bowling_ball

Yup. And before anybody blames the user - that's an excuse. I have a dozen well-paid, highly technical designers and drafters in my office, and we still have trouble with the same things we did 10 years ago - and still aren't able to find permanent, stable fixes.

Jan 25, 24 2:05 pm  · 
8  · 

Revit has it's issues. I can think of several things that would be improvements to the programs. That being said, we don't have issues using Revit. Maybe we're not doing cool enough buildings.

On a serious note, BB - what issues are you having? Maybe we can help here?

Jan 25, 24 2:14 pm  · 
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gwharton

There is a solution to this problem, but most architectural firms are unwilling to implement it: you need to standardize and pre-implement all your Revit families, views, and templates before you ever try to use them on a project. But doing this means investing a lot of non-billable time and money into getting it set up right. If you try to make it up as you go, that list of problems from the OP and 2020 letter will never go away.

Jan 25, 24 2:18 pm  · 
7  · 
Non Sequitur

I have very little of these issues on my Revit projects but I also have most of the things Gwharton mentions. I took the initiative years ago and now all revit models follow the templates and rules I established. Those who don't/can't because they are lazy or incompetent don't get any sympathy.

Jan 25, 24 2:44 pm  · 
3  · 
square.

But doing this means investing a lot of non-billable time and money into getting it set up right.

this alone is an indication that the software is seriously flawed; surely we should expect more from software that costs an arm and a leg just to have the privilege of using (via subscription, forget about owning it anymore). 

revit sucks and is not an enjoyable, intuitive, or accessible piece of software to use. just because you can jerry rig it to make it work with "no issues" doesn't mean there shouldn't be something far better.

Jan 25, 24 3:32 pm  · 
4  ·  3

You had to do the same thing for AutoCAD. Any drafting software will require your firm to set it up to meet your standards. If you think the software company should be doing this for you I can't help you except to say good luck.

Jan 25, 24 4:14 pm  · 
3  ·  1
ivanmillya

I think the difference though is that, for example, with CAD, if I want to note a sink in plan, I just draw a rectangle, put an x through it, and I'm done. In Revit, I have to either make or find the sink family, ensure it's suitable for my project's use (since it's visible in all 3 views as is), and then potentially edit the family using detail items/masking regions/etc in plan view to get the very simple symbol. Yes, they both require set-up, but the work involved in that is vast for Revit in comparison to CAD.

Jan 25, 24 4:19 pm  · 
3  · 
Non Sequitur

Also, it's really not that hard to make minor global changes. Far too many just think it's a magic box that should do everything automatically.

Jan 25, 24 4:20 pm  · 
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ivanmillya

On a related note, one thing we're struggling with at our firm is that we started adopting rendering programs (Enscape here), which means that a lot of stuff we wouldn't really care about for our 2d drawings, suddenly we have to spend an inordinate amount of time making work for realtime renderings. It's tiring.

Jan 25, 24 4:21 pm  · 
3  · 
sameolddoctor

Yes Jovan, and when clients get used to it (as they usually do for free work), every simple design decision needs to be validated with multiple enscape views/vignettes. It is tiring and most times quite unnecessary.

Jan 25, 24 4:29 pm  · 
5  · 

Jovan - Revit comes with standard families. for your sink example you just need to have the provided sink family in your project.

Jan 25, 24 5:16 pm  · 
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Jovan - you know that several sink families come preloaded into Revit. You can even change the size easily.


Jan 25, 24 5:17 pm  · 
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Non Sequitur

Chad I found that all versions after R2019 dropped the stock families and I was still using my R2019 family database (plus all my custom shit) until R2024. R2024 has a built in link to autodesk families straight from the dealer. No more turning tricks in a dark alley to get your fix.

Jan 25, 24 5:26 pm  · 
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ivanmillya

Chad: Yes I'm aware of standard families and manufacturer families. I'm just saying it's something I've noted in my years of using the program and teaching others to use it. It's one of the problems that's more annoying than the solution we had for CAD. I swear sometimes you guys get so defensive about an imperfect program.

Jan 25, 24 5:41 pm  · 
3  · 
ivanmillya

SOD: I remember at the old firm I worked at, where Revit wasn't very common for us, we rarely did mockup renderings for our custom SFR clients. When we did, it was a sketchup rendering of the kitchen, or the master bath or something. We relied on 2d drawings (sometimes rendered with color and shadows in CAD/Photoshop), and we never really had issues. At the current firm I work at, we adopted Enscape as part of the firm's transition to Revit (which is one of the reasons I was hired at the time). Ever since that adoption, I've seen us sink further and further into "well we have to model [x] correctly because you can see it in the walkthrough". The struggle doesn't end, and it certainly doesn't go backward.

Jan 25, 24 5:44 pm  · 
2  · 

Oh I'm not defensive. I know Revit has issues. I don't think having a preloaded, parametric sink that is automatically classified as a plumbing fixture is one of the issues. You know that you could simply use detail lines and draw in a sink (box with an x) if you want. Why not do that?

Jan 25, 24 5:45 pm  · 
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ivanmillya

All that to say... I am far happier using Revit for my work than I was using CAD. The fact that I can reliably generate building elevations and sections from my model, knowing that they'll be correct to each other, is invaluable. I've personally glanced at Archicad a few times to see what's on the other side of the fence, and some of the architectural features do wonders in comparison to Revit (stairs, railings, window & door framing & closure, etc.). But I don't know if it's a case of "the grass is always greener".

Jan 25, 24 5:46 pm  · 
1  · 

I think Archicad has better graphic options. Unfortunately not enough people use it so coordinating with consultants is a nightmare with Archicad.

Jan 25, 24 6:26 pm  · 
2  · 

I’ll say it again I suppose because now that I’m old, I like to be curmudgeonly. Revit is what drove me out of the field after 30 years of professional practice. Jovan, your sink example is perfect: I became an architect because I like to *draw* in a language the field understands collectively. I don’t like to model.

Jan 26, 24 7:40 am  · 
3  · 
gwharton

I agree that Archicad and even Chief Architect are easier to use and generate better graphics than Revit. The deciding factor for implementing Revit for us was the extended platform ecology (ACC) and interoperability is just way, way better than the other options. It's also a lot easier to find people who know how to use Revit than the others.

Jan 26, 24 12:11 pm  · 
2  · 

This is not 100% accurate, the Platform ecology of Autodesk is a closed platform trying to monopolize the free information across disciplines/softwares or why do you explain AUTODESK has been doing little or nothing on implement IFC format in their software

Jan 26, 24 5:46 pm  · 
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ivanmillya

True but that doesn't devalue GW's point, which is that (at least here in North America; can't speak to Europe or Asia, don't know), Revit is the de-facto BIM program. I guarantee that most competent structural engineers will have staff that use Revit. I have less faith that a lot of them use ArchiCAD. That said, I have heard some great things about interoperability between the two with recent updates to ArchiCAD's importing features, so maybe the gap isn't as wide as it used to be.

Jan 27, 24 8:39 am  · 
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ivanmillya

I'd love to take this discussion to a place of "what do we do to make our lives better as architects", rather than just arguing about whether or not Revit is good for our industry. The fact is that the program (or a future iteration of it) is here to stay, for better and for worse.

At my firm, we're actively implementing changes to our workflow this year, and I'd like to guide our team to make the following modifications:

1. Revit is a documentation tool, first and foremost. Starting from design development, we should be using Revit almost exclusively for project documentation. Continuing to use CAD and Sketchup intermingled just makes the process more chaotic and a hassle for project managers.

2. We should double down on our 2d detail library and our 3d asset (family) library, such that when an asset (whether 2d detail or 3d family) is used on more than one project, it gets some QA done to it and is put into the company library.

3. Avoid unnecessary modeling. Stop trying to find the perfect light fixture that's exactly per-spec, and instead use a generic representation of that light fixture category. Stop modeling baseboards, when a simple 2d line in interior elevations and a standard detail/specification item will suffice.

4. Move AWAY from using too many smart annotations, specifically when it comes to things like interior finishes and accessories. These items (for us) are so subject to change, even multiple times within a project before CDs, that using dummy tags for them is actually a lot easier than keeping track of dozens of separate Revit materials.

5. This one's going to be tricky, but I'd like for our firm to strongly reconsider the implementation of real-time rendering software. It's proven to be a downhill plummet as far as the amount of work we do vs. the benefit we get from it. We do use Enscape as a great tool during in-house design to make sure elements aren't colliding with each other where they shouldn't; but I'd like to see us step down our use of Enscape for client presentation. It only seems to make everyone less satisfied and more anal about details that really don't matter at that particular stage of development.

What about y'all? Any takes on how to improve our relationships with BIM rather than harping on the negatives?

Jan 26, 24 9:21 am  · 
2  · 

Item 4 - use keynotes with a linked keynote legend for plans only. Other than that use text notes.

Jan 26, 24 9:57 am  · 
1  · 
ivanmillya

I currently just use a generic annotation for a finish key symbol, and then coordinate it with excel spreadsheets (since our interiors scheduling is done via excel outside of revit anyway; no need to duplicate information like that in an architectural drawing).

Jan 26, 24 11:22 am  · 
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Non Sequitur

To your points: 

  1. We will use whatever software is available that gets our point across. If that means we insert site plan CAD or model in SU, or export to 3DS for rendering... whatever, does not matter. At the end of the day, we produce instructions in PDF for the GC to build. Not everyone and not every project is suitable for a revit-only world.
  2. Set up your expected LOD at the very fucking start of the project and let all team members know what gets modelled to what level. Same goes with consultants. What's the point of 3D details at LOD300/350 when everyone is struggling to get above 100?. 
  3. Same as point 3. Use simple modelled in place components instead of endlessly googling/downloading shit. Not only will it keep the model lean and free of random garbage, you'll get more comfortable making simple 3D families that then become part of your default template library.
  4. Hard disagree with moving away from smart annotations. This is the bread and butter of BIM. Have a short and simple list of finishes and materials with the correct tag info built in. Have simple and easy to use annotation families. Use them and establish a system that's easy to change (ie. never refer to shit like GB1 in a text note).  With that said, keynote text needs to die a painful death.  No one reads those and leads to contractor confusion all the time.
  5. I don't care much about inside-revit rendering because it forces you to waste time modeling things that don't matter for the construction docs. It's so much easier for us to export the model to 3DS or sketchup and get our inhouse graphics team to whip up glossy renderings in half a day then it is to ensure the BIM model is suitable. I have a few 3D template overrides that make my revit model look good when I do live 3D passes and section cut boxes to discuss issues with GC and clients but that's the extent I'm willing to go. I am however interested in the cloud rendering option.
Jan 26, 24 12:07 pm  · 
1  · 
gwharton

Again, I think a lot of these issue go away if we put some effort in up front to make getting the model right as a path of least resistance. Baseboards shouldn't need to be modeled independently. Include them in the wall profile instead, with a parametric setting to switch types easily. That kind of thing. Another example: dropping a light fixture on an RCP shows up as a 2D symbol and appears in the electrical schedule. It also is pre-configured to appear in 3D as the correct type of light fixture with included batwing profile so it shows up in the rendering software the way it should.

Jan 26, 24 12:23 pm  · 
2  · 

We don't use finish schedules. We do finish plans with a special room tag that has the basic finish information. All the information is tied to the space. 

Our keynote information is used equipment, fixtures, ect. We've never had issues with contractors being confused by them.  For example, here is the keynote legend for the fire station we're working on:


Jan 26, 24 12:48 pm  · 
3  · 
ivanmillya

Chad: I think our problem with really needing finish schedules is that because a lot of our work is custom SFR, it means that our finishes are too complex to summarize as "north wall = x, east wall = y, floor = z" etc. Often, we'll have a portion of one wall be covered floor to ceiling with a tile, which then also continues as an adjacent countertop finish.

Our problem with the material tags (built-in smart annotation feature) is that, randomly it seems, those tags will disassociate themselves from what they originally pointed at and result in a blank box. I don't know why this happens, but I suspect it has to do with shifting elements that are hosted to the wall where the material tag is placed? Not sure. Using a generic annotation with a modifiable text parameter seems to fix the issue.

Jan 27, 24 8:49 am  · 
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ivanmillya

GW: One task I've given some of our new hires (as an ongoing process) is to go through our Revit library and start replacing plan views in plumbing, appliance, etc. families with standardized drafting symbols (taken from our old CAD library). So the family will appear accurate to its 3d representation in elevations, sections, and 3d, but as the very simple symbol we want in plan views. I'm also kind of against the onslaught of seemingly endless variations of faucet and sink designs in drawings that can come from using manufacturer-specific models. The library I've developed for kitchen & bath fixtures & appliances is based on a limited selection of models from Wolf, Sub-Zero, Ruvati and Kohler. I figure our schedules can do the talking when it comes to exact model specs.

Jan 27, 24 8:57 am  · 
2  · 
ivanmillya

I will admit one point of friction we've had as an office is that, being very small (we've hired on more, and are now up to 10 total including the owner), we don't have a dedicated BIM manager to set up and manage an office-wide template, etc. Since I was really the first hire in the office that knew and used Revit daily, I was bringing in some items from past work, and at the moment, we have an adequate library, but a lot of what we're doing now is simply "Oh go take that from this other project that we did that's similar". I agree, it's a nightmare. But as a small office, none of us really has the time to devote to dropping all work for a month in order to develop a sufficient template and library. I'm sure that will come back to bite us (as it has already in some regards).

Jan 27, 24 9:02 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

^jovan, we’re in the process of hiring someone to fill in the gaps in the templates I made. I know ownership have some unreasonable expectations but all I told them was to not hire a junior person.

Jan 27, 24 10:32 am  · 
1  · 

Jovan - we don't do simple interior finishes either. We elevate these conditions and detail them. 

 We're a 12 person firm. We do all commercial work topping out around $160 million. One of our partners is our 'BIM manager and IT'. 

 We don't have the issues that your firm is experiencing with Revit.. We require people to know how to use Revit to a reasonable level and follow the firm standards. One way we accomplish this is through paid Revit training and continuous mentoring / learning.  This applies to all team members.  Even the partners.  

I don't want to sound patronizing.  This is a tough situation and the long term solution isn't easy or cheap.  When I first started using Revit I too had the same issues as you Jovan.  Good luck. 

Jan 27, 24 11:47 am  · 
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luvu

What’s wrong with View Templates they do exactly the same job as Layer Combo in Archicad … weird rant

Jan 28, 24 11:27 pm  · 
3  · 
sideMan

Good intell in this post.
I feel with Revit alot of the art of drafting is gone. As a drafter that is one of things I have always enjoyed and taken pride in. Of course, at the end of the day, it really has very little bearing on bringing a project to fruition.

Feb 3, 24 11:02 am  · 
6  · 
zonker

I use Revit from concept to CA - I also use Rhino and Grasshopper, our office uses it for concept phase - The problem I have with Revit are those people who came up through autocad with this attitude of : "sonny, back when we used autocad, we knew what we are drawing, you don't" then they proceed to micromanage the Revit people - that never happens when I work with people with a Revit background - it's like saying pilots of old piston powered airliners are better pilots

Feb 3, 24 11:59 pm  · 
2  · 
luvu

i’ve got one legit rant though … why it takes forever to load up BIM 360 , especially the first  time joining the file ? 25-30 mins is unbearable. 


Rant over

Feb 4, 24 8:13 pm  · 
2  · 
Non Sequitur

I have a 2gb file that takes that much time. My other ones are less than 5min.

Feb 4, 24 9:01 pm  · 
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curtkram

do you have a bunch of images or pdfs linked to your revit file, or maybe a poorly maintained CAD file? are you accessing your model through a vpn instead of through the cloud?

Feb 5, 24 9:49 am  · 
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luvu - I open three 300mb files in 90 seconds from BIM360. What is in your files?

Feb 5, 24 10:27 am  · 
1  · 
Bench

Believe luvu is talking about the Publish process, which is definitely a longer item than seems necessary...

Feb 5, 24 11:58 am  · 
 · 

It can take a while to Share. When I publish the previously mentioned files it takes about 2 minutes before I can Share. The actual Sharing process will typically take 20 minutes or so.  

Feb 5, 24 1:53 pm  · 
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luvu

@Chad, it usually happens when a new user first open the files.( i’m told) . I crashed out of it after 30 mins and selected only some ‘ work sets’ not all to open / it helped.  The file is less than 1 GB with the usual Linked services , structures files linked into.

Feb 5, 24 3:54 pm  · 
 · 

I can't help you. 

It could be a lot of things: 

  • how you've set up BIM360 account
  • are you using design collaboration 
  • are you working in a live model 
  • are you linking directly from BIM360
  •  It could also be the speed of your internet connection (probably not), 
  • your server configuration,
  • the performance of your computer(s).
  •   how the various models and their associated links are set up

It may be a combination of several of the items above.

Feb 5, 24 6:36 pm  · 
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