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oops - that should be "formal tie-dye"
So seriously does anyone get what is going on in that thread about licensing of non-degree holders? Am I just confused? Admittedly I haven't read the whole thing.
Which reminds me of a time when someone was whining about something and called out vado to which vado non-nonchalantly replied "I don't know I don't read these threads."on a thread in which he had commented several times. It was deadpan brilliance.
By the way I spent some time last night teaching my husband to use Draftisght aka Autocad. It was humbling to realize just how ridiculously un-intuitive that program is! Makes me wonder how thinking of the world in Autocad's form for the last 15 years has impacted how I perceive things int he real world.
the OP is all over the place. They were first really concerned about people without college degrees getting licenses but really didn't understand that this "concern" comes from either a place of prejudice against certain people and/or some sort of resentment over having to pay for and spend time in architecture school. Then they backpedaled and are now talking about lack of professionalism in architecture (which I am also concerned about), but this is far more complicated and not just about schooling.
People kept responding to the pretty blatant snobbery - the OP sounds pretty young and inexperienced and doesn't really understand that they're being naive.
Hi Donna! I read all your comments, even on threads i don't read. Anyone who attended UIC probably took the Pro Practice class taught by taught by attorney Mark Friedlander. His entire class is available online and very interesting. It is full of lawsuit anecdotes etc. Anyway he really talks about how underpaid the profession is. An example, he used was between himself and Helmut Jahn. He said something along the lines of..."Helmut Jahn is one of the most famous architects in the world. Not just Chicago, but the world. And yet he bills at around 250 dollars and hour. Whereas, I bill at 600 dollars an hour." also... "If you're lucky enough to get a job in this environment, you'll make, what, forty thousand, if you're lucky. A new intern at our office starts at 125,000 dollars with much much much less knowledge about their field than you guys have." He said nothing about being quirky or wearing hipster doofus suits at 55!
i already bought my hipster doofus suit for my 55 b-day. it's awesome.
i don't know any lawyers who made that much as starting wage. would love to earn 600/hr though. where do i go to arrange that?
sign me up to please...
also will i'd like to see that suit.
We may have a new Per on our hands with this one.
My job is confusing. I'm a pinball in a machine at this point. Will let you all know if I stop.
I was gonna ask how many points you get with each bang, Donna, thinking of pinball, but then realized that it just didnt sound right.
his grammar is better than per, so at least that's easier to follow.
i think i figured something out. sometimes he's being either sarcastic or ironic (i think they changed the definition of one of those fairly recently), but not putting his statements in <irony> tags. so sometimes it sounds like he's contradicting himself, but he's actually trying to prove his point by stating a counter-point. it doesn't work in text (or in real life). having said that, i don't know what the point is and i don't have the interest to figure it out.
good luck donna. a rolling pinball gathers no moss.
i think i just took care of the problem, you can thank me later.
Hi guys, I forgot how much WORK architecture is. I mean, it's fun, but damn, the long hours! I didn't even have time to pee today. Literally. I went from 8:30am to 9:30pm without having time to pee.
that sounds dangerous manta. maybe you should put a bucket beside your desk, just in case...
nam, my 55 b-day super suit is totally top secret, but comes with a wig for my inevitable baldness. its under the bed with my 35 b-day hipster suit, which was also way awesome, but didn't get a chance to wear because i couldn't take time off from work to enjoy my aging in an appropriate setting.
hang in there donna!
I've been quietly lurking and nursing my wounds after being laid off from a hellish job right before the holidays. Now I'm finally getting some resume interest and I have a second interview with a large corporate firm and will be presenting a digital portfolio.
Any portfolio tips for those of us who are 8 years in, more technical, than design? I have projects I've worked on but I wasn't a big part of the design team. Mostly production with a some project management.
Manta, you should get on of those old people potty chair. Will, you might need one too!
get one? i have two! one for the office and one for home.
Dapper, good to see you! I used pretty images of projects - properly credited to the firm, of course - that looked great even when I was just doing production. The point is you did the production work AND it was on a sexy project. Just be honest about your role, but don't be overly modest.
manta, I didn't have time to pee today either. But your post made me realize that you DID get the job, yes? I can't remember if we congratulated you about it yet or not.
feeling very stressed with workload lately. strangely enough mostly because i am taking two days off next week.
manta peeing is important, try not to skip in future. Will I feel like this "enjoy my aging in an appropriate setting" is a lesson i am trying to learn ever since I entered my 30s... but its hard in a mostly college town, especially when you went to college and spent your 20s there already.
Take Time To Pee, TC. Life is short!
Question for you TC folks in academia land (might post this to the forum at large)- that recent licensure thread made me think about the difference between the skills you learn in a degree project vs a thesis project. I know there are some programs that used to be a 5-year B.Arch that switched to a 4+1 "MArch" but still do the degree project instead of thesis... which, in my opinion, devalues the masters degree for other schools that do the thesis project (also, screws these students over in terms of financial aid...).
My understanding is that the whole thesis process is designed to teach the student how to lead and initiate an independent research-based design investigation (there's a lot more responsibility placed on the student - for example, I believe most programs require you to find and retain your own panel of experts). the degree project is essentially like a glorified studio project - where you might get to pick from a few different topics, but you really don't have as much autonomy as you would for thesis. I've heard the arguments against thesis for a professional program, but, to me - there should be some clear difference between an M.Arch and the B.Arch - and I think it should be thesis vs. degree projects.
I'd like to bring this up with NAAB, but I need a little more insight from people who might know a little more than I.
btw - this has absolutely nothing to do with restricting access to a license - which, for all I care, you can go through 15 years of an apprenticeship straight out of HS, sit for the exams, and then wait another 6 years to gain reciprocity in other states. B.Arch simply ensures someone is likely to be more technically skilled as a designer - and the M.Arch would mean that this person would likely be more skilled at a certain kind of thinking and rigor in their process (in addition to all the basic stuff you need to learn before you head out to work in the real world).
I think if we all understood just what these degrees are actually designed to do - maybe there'd be less resentment surrounding schooling. Right now it's mostly "I did it, so you have to do it" or "the degree will get you a job" from the peanut gallery - which is pretty pointless - and I think also diminishes the REAL value of an advanced education which, perversely, causes us to believe we are worth less to firms when we graduate and to clients when we start our own practices.
I did a 4+2 masters and while everyone called it a thesis, it really isn't. We had a lot of autonomy in choosing our topic and doing our research, but if I'm not mistaken, the key to a thesis is "original research" not regurgitated research (which is what we all did anyway). When we turn in our application for degree at the end of the program we fill out paperwork for a "non-thesis masters."
toaster, i agree with you on every point. brian, my experience was similar. i don't think we had "non-thesis masters;" i think a masters is a masters but i'm not positive. that was a long time ago. from my limited perspective, the only reason we didn't do more original research is because our studio professors, who were also thesis advisers, just didn't have any interest in pushing things that direction. they wanted the thesis to be a personal studio with a book at the end, and perhaps they lacked the experience to lead or direct a more focused thesis. i suppose that's a part of education that could be improved.
i would be afraid of letting that topic into the public while the flame war, or whatever it is, with not enough kitty pictures is still going on. maybe give it a few days to see if the one going dies down.
I know I have always hated that Texas Tech offered a Masters degree in 5 years, and the guys I personally know with a TT masters sucked at design, and that whole thought process. I have a 5 year pro-degree, and had a much more rounded education; I hated that on paper, the others looked better.
I chose not to do thesis, opting for the hands on design build class, but sometimes wish I had. I know I got a lot more sleep, but I also wonder if I missed out on something. Maybe I could have created something great.
Then again, I don't know that this would've helped me much, now.
The only thing that would help me at this point in time is a single malt Whiskey.......I have been battling the cold from Hell since yesterday. Throat hearts so be It is very painful to swallow. Head is plugged up eyes are watering...getting the chills and then getting hot flashes. Think I have to give this optimum time to sort its self out.
We did get delivery of our new couch today like late in the day. I LOVE IKEA DIRECTIONS~~~Actually it took us longer to unpack all the cardboard, plastic, foam, and some sort of synthetic fabric they use to wrap it than it did to put the legs on the thing.
Mrs. Snooker is a very Happy Lady...not that happy cause I'm a fricking Man with A Cold and I should be shipped off to some war front.
Why is it that men, when sick, revert back to 6 year olds?!
*edit: get better soon, Snook.
why do i have this urge, this overwhelming urge, to get in a plane, right now, and fly to nyc, just to jamb cupcakes down the gullets of the partners of avroko??
sarah, men will typically take any excuse to revert back to 6 year olds.
I feel out of the loop. I've never even heard of avroko and I have no idea why they need cupcakes. Ah well.
Sarah H - didn't you make some kind of pineapple vodka back in the day? Or am I imagining things? Bon Appetit has a recipe for it in this month's issue and it rang a bell in my mind.
Avorko has a job posting for freelance/contract workers but ONLY IF YOU ARE IN NY METRO! Goddammit, DON'T contact us if you are not NY METRO!!
At least I think that's what beta was on about. I'm really hung over today. What a lovely, wonderful night but oooch I'm paying for it today. And I'm on my own tonight, boys are at Monster Truck Jam, so I had planned to curl up with a bottle of wine and Sports Night. May just drink tea all night instead.
I just finished reading The Devil In Silver. Did I talk about this already? It's a novel that takes place in an insane asylum, but the main character is being wrongly held there. Or is he? And there might be a monster. In fact, there is definitely a monster. But maybe not really. It's wonderful.
Donna, Knicks in Philly tonight. Should be a good game if they play like they did in Boston Thursdy.
I used to make pineapple vodka every year for Christmas gifts to friends, but I don't have any friends that would appreciate it any more. Sad.
Just took Abe to a 30 minute jack and the beanstalk opera, and after, had desert and a French martini. I wish I could be the person that has season tickets to the opera, and had French Martinis all the time. Well, maybe not ALL the time, but you know.
I can't imagine anyone who wouldn't appreciate pineapple vodka. I'll take some if you're offering! ;-) Also - look - you were so ahead of the trend that it has taken Bon Appetit years to catch up. Well done SH!
I have tried to get into opera and just can't.
My friends either don't drink liquor, or don't drink at all, anymore. Welcome to parenthood in suburbia.
I took opera appreciation class, for lack of a better term, while studying in Rome. We learned about the stories first, and the style second. Still, the first opera I saw was terrible. It was in Rome, so there were no subtitles, and it was a rare performance, like a b-side if you will.
What I love about opera is the costuming, the sets, the stories, and the spectacle. It's like prom for grown-ups!
I have been careful when introducing my husband and son to opera, choosing stories I felt they could get behind: Don Giovanni for Husband, and Jack and the Beanstalk for Abe. Husband thoroughly enjoyed Don Giovanni, and since this year TDO is doing Turrandot, I'm excited to go again. They're also doing Aida, but I'm not as familiar with that story.
I don't listen to opera CDs or anything like that. And I couldn't tell you the differences between Pucinni and Verdi.
Donna, tea or wine, don't skip the Sports Night. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0165961/?mode=desktop
Thanks, Vado for reminding me of this. It was just the break i needed while reading Crime and Punishment - the 1900s translation.
opera very cool, sarah. would love to take my kids. they get squeemish with ballet and much more enjoy hip-hop so haven't tried yet. lion king would be best chance, except it seems so weird in japanese (worse than opera in english) so i haven't taken them to that yet either.
about edumacation, i don't think thesis is the right word for north american style 4+2 final project (which i did - except we called it a practicum). my education was pretty representative i think, but left me seriously unprepared for phd because its just a studio with yourself as the crit in the end. no academic-ready skills.
here the style is usually a proper research project for thesis, although a bit light i would say for a master's degree. still, the students learn a different skill set that is actually fairly useful if you ever do a job that requires a bit of information gathering or innovation seeking. this is why profs without phd aren't allowed to have graduate students, at least at my uni. don't think it is so necessary to be that strict but do understand the point. research and a thesis requires different kind of rigour than design rigour and only way to learn it is to go through it...
I spent a year working on weekends for one of my former bosses who left the firm and went back to Teaching at the UofA. I would go over to his house on Saturdays and Sundays and work out of his home studio. We worked on some rammed earth houses and one house designed with vertical air circulation chimneys built around a court yard. He always played opera when I worked with him and would explain it to me as if I would take it all in like a sponge. I recall one Saturday I was at his house and for some reason he was not about. The Phone rang and his 90 year old mother was on the other end, telling me to tell Bill she had no Batteries. I of course thought it was a strange message. I did tell Bill, when he came back and he tells me that his mom was in a nursing home and because of a conflict with room mates was not able to listen to her opera, so he bought her a sony walkman.When she didn't have batteries it was almost the end of the world so it was his job to keep her well stocked.
I'm tempted to start a new thread just to drop it off the first page.
Snook, that is such a strange story, and for you to remember it after all these years!
I miss our number of comments badges. I was curious how many I had, so I hovered, and checked. Can I really have nearly a thousand more than Snook? Wow! But Donna is quickly catching up, and she hasn't been Donna that long. I suddenly feel I am in a race. Better down shift!
We have some epic whining happening around here lately, eh?
My goodness. I do get cynical at times but I guess I'm glad when I was in my really rough employment (internship0 years I only had a few disgruntled co-workers with whom to vent rather than the entire internet. Also, we always did our whining over beers, so eventually we were laughing instead of whining.
I'm hand-drawing elevation options for a little porch project tonight. Feels good.
I hand drew the design for Abrams new desk, today. Yay for hand drawing!!
cut snook some slack - he's not feeling well.
i will pretty much take any opportunity; booze, sickness or abandon to behave like a six yr old.
Fri night i had chance to see Jeff Magnum (of neutral milk hotel fame) + Tall Firs and get quite drunk, but had a great time. Getting ready to go to beach for a couple of days mid-week.
so - glenn beck's town is called "the citadel"
reminds me of the lego town I had when I was 7 or 8 - which I vigilantly protected from constant threat of giant alien invaders (who would destroy half the town and I'd have to rebuild). I think I even had a factory that made (ever more sophisticated) guns, but I also had alien spies who would infiltrate the town - or town members who would be brainwashed by the aliens... then later the aliens turned out to be good guys who just had a bad leader and the good aliens united with the lego guys against the bad leader - then there were other bad lego guys when I got new sets (some old lego guys turned into bad guys - there were some ambiguous characters on both sides- a few lone wolfs).... come to think of it - there were constantly shifting political dynamics in my lego town - new threats - older lego people trying to restrict progress... old wars, new wars, extensive backstories - massive shifts in time...
I outgrew all this stuff by the time I was in 3rd grade - but apparently mr. beck has not.
i will pretty much take any opportunity; booze, sickness or abandon to behave like a six yr old
I outgrew all this stuff by the time I was in 3rd grade
nice. of course i have to side with nam. let's get drunk and play with legos!! hell, i'd build my own walled city too if i could afford it. maybe it would be more like citizen kane's xanadu.
I feel that the alien threat is exactly why Beck is doing what he is doing. But I have to say that Warren Jeffs already has Beck's ideal compound in Texas.
As for legos, I am a master. Abe and I play every weekend, and sometimes evenings during the week. 3 weeks ago, I build a trailor house, complete with tiny upper windows over the bath tub, bbq grill, and a play set in the back yard. And yesterday, I made a camping trailer. I think tonight, I'll probably add a dock, and a lake, to the vacation home Abram built yesterday.
Confirmed after a visit to the walk in clinic: I'm Sick! The Doctor told me not to go to work today. I told the doctor I work from home, she said no work today. Pumping me up with some antibiotics to clear out my system along with some relaxer drugs.....so I don't cough the cover off my chest.
Sounds like a vacation, Snook.