A new interactive documentary from the BBC explores the Venezuelan shopping center that became one of the country's most notorious torture centers for political prisoners. Through interviews from ex-detainees, relatives, lawyers and human rights activists, the BBC aims to bring its mysterious history to light.
Designed by Pedro Neuberger, Dirk Bornhorst, and Jorge Romero Gutiérrez—and topped with one of Buckminster Fuller's geodesic domes—El Helicoide was intended as the world's first drive-through mall. Conceived at the height of Venezuela's economic growth, the ambitious project promoted a narrative of progress centered around consumerism, car culture, and social mobility.
However, the economic and political upheaval in 1950s Venezuela caused the project to fall apart, halting construction and leaving it empty for many years. Eventually, it was taken over by the government, who used it as a temporary flood shelter before adapting it as the headquarters for Venezuela's intelligence agency.
Under their control, the spiraling structure has been used as an overcrowded jail, holding prisoners in converted offices, retail stores and even staircases. What was once a futuristic fantasy has instead become an infamous torture site with one NGO reporting 145 cases of cruel and inhumane treatment.
117 Comments
socialism rocks!
oh yeah, this is so much better, getting them when they're young.
what is that pic ?
right click, search google for image
Oh, that’s bad too, but what does it have to do with Venezuela being a much much worse place to live because of socialism?
study a little, venezuela was not even close to being socialist in 1950, when this crap was already abandoned. My picture points out that unchecked capitalism can also "rock" and convert their temples into prisons.
Yeah I know. Venezuela was one of the best places in SA to live before the socialists ruined it.
Are you saying a singular failed project in 1950 is the moral equivalency of the tyranny of Maduro?
Life in Venezuela wouldn't be half as bad if it weren't for the American led sanctions. It's very easy to say socialism failed when you're the one effectively pushing the country over the edge of the cliff.
jla-x , read the whole thing lazy bum. you come out cheering for capitalism on an article where only the last 10 years of a building abandoned in the 60's has been used as a prison, the previous 50 years was dilapidated by greedy bastards nothing to do with politics, same as anywhere
It has everything to do with politics. A police state is a requirement for socialism because the end of a gun is how you cease private property. It’s very simple. Yes, greedy bastards with military power are more dangerous than greedy bastards with yachts.
Even if you think you can put “good guys” in government, which you likely can’t, how do you keep them in government in a democracy. You can’t. The AOC’s of the world are the “useful idiots.”
Ask yourself, would you want Trump to possess the expanded powers that come with a socialist state?
Trump would've never been elected in a socialist state...
LOL!!! How do you stop that in a democracy?
Do you think that leftist trump like figures don’t exist? Uhhh It’s a long long list of horrible socialists that have killed millions of people. Socialist dictators way way way worse than trump. Chavez and Maduro were elected.
First idiot know nothings who can’t do math like AOC win by charisma and feel good rhetoric, then once they ruin the economy, more controls are put in place by a strongman, then we are all eating dogs and shitting in the street. FOH
It sounds like you're getting your political analysis from the Daily Caller.
jla only has a hammer in these conversations, so everything is a nail. Nuance is lost, and you may as well stop wasting your time.
It’s apparently a good hammer, you can’t seem to refute the points I made.
I choose not to waste my time. You also assume you make points. I see it more as incoherent rambling.
jla-x, could you maybe be more specific whom you're replying to? You've lost me with all your replies and replies to your own replies etc. Thanks!
Sneakypete, I don’t care.
At last we agree on something.
Sources say that the worst abuses took place at Hot Dog on a Stick, followed closely (and ironically) by Banana Republic.
I hear you can still get a good wienerschnitzel.
Well that's the dystopian picture of the year - and we aren't even out of January yet.
you need to see more pictures if this is the worse you've seen this year.
Socialism is the leavening element of capitalism. Neither destroyed Venezuela, a corrupt military dictatorship did, (and the apathy of its population.) The people are great and the country is beautiful. Wish them the best as they go through this horrible ordeal.
Venezuela has been subject to economic warfare from the US and its puppets for decades. In the past few years by crashed global oil prices (courtesy of Saudia Arabia) designed to destroy the economies of Syria, Russia, Iran, and Venezueal, among others. The newly implemented US economic sanctions against Venezuela are designed to foster regime change, illegal under international law, and horrific to the people there.
Stop talking about things you know nothing about.
Don't presume that I don't know what I'm talking about. I've spent summers of my childhood there and half my family is still there, starving, getting shot, kidnapped and pistol whipped. Even the people of the ranchos don't believe the crooks anymore. If you think America is an imperial force and Russia, Iran, and Syria victims, your entitled to your opinion, but I'd suggest looking beyond ideologies and instead see what they have wrought. Venezuela was corrupt and segregated before Chavez and America hardly perfect, but nobody is clamoring to move to Russia, Iran, and least of all Venezuela. Almost 10% of the country has fled to wherever they can. You and I have been very fortunate, no small thanks to the opportunities afforded by our great country, which is now suffering through a tough period, but this will soon pass, unlike the hell my family is living through in the Bolivarian paradise of Venezuela. All the best.
Thayer, I agree, but socialism was the means in which that dictatorship ceased power and depleted the economy. Chavez came into power spewing marxist rhetoric and getting the support of the poor and middle class. He promised social welfare, demonized the rich, etc. same rhetoric is being spewed here by the leftists. Socialism increases the power of the state and paved the way to dictatorship always.
People spew all sorts of things. Chavez was able to fool people because the previous regimes where super corrupt, even with the largest middle class in Latin America, essential for Democracy. Look at what the right has done in this country since Nixon, attacking the free press and slamming government at every turn, or the Church hiding abuse all these years. All I'm saying is the proof is in the pudding. Plus, 'socialist' ideas have rescued this country several times, under both Roosevelts and recently under Bush and Obama's bailout. Did they let the bankers off the hook, you betcha, they should be sent to do hard time for all they robbed and broke, but you have to look at the little guy and if he and she has enough food and security to raise the next generation relatively free of trauma. I don't care where a good idea comes from, as long as it does good. Everything in moderation.
“Corporations are corrupt! Let’s give the government control of them!” Next sentence...”Us government is a corrupt military state....” Where’s the hand to head emoji on here?
^thats not directed towards you Thayer...
Government control of corporations doesn't work, that's how you get dictatorships, be they communist or fascist . Good oversight of them does, and a legal system not rigged in favor of the powerful.
What's going on in Venezuela is a humanitarian disaster. But it is beyond foolish to ignore the long history of US interference in their internal affairs (starting with the Monroe Doctrine), or the fact that Venezuela has some of the largest proven oil reserves, or that socialism is the enemy of capitalism, and must be destroyed in every form.
One shouldn't ignore those facts as well as understanding that every society since time started has tried to do the same. Imagine Russia or China being the dominant power. The lesser of two evils doesn't let anyone off the hook, it just means we need a way to check the tyrants and balance the selfish interests that seem baked into our nature. Spread the wealth, but don't kill the goose.
"Government control of corporations doesn't work"
Nonsense. Just because we don't have it doesn't mean it doesn't work.
Where does it work? Regulation is another thing, especially for the long term survival of our planet.
Trump is part of government. Would you want him to control corporations? How do you keep trumps and hillaries out while maintaining democracy?
Northern Europe. The battle now is between the corporate/government establishment and citizens. Yellow Vests and a variety of other popular movements are vastly under-reported by corporate media. Look at the efforts to disparage/derail Octavia-Cortez, she even hasn't been in office for a month.
Northern Europe is a market economy with expanded social welfare programs....they are ranked higher in terms of economic liberties than you think. The yellow vests is mostly a reaction to gas prices that are a result of carbon taxes...similar to the ones being pushed by the person you discuss in the very next sentence...
AOC is a threat because she is far left, and also very likable/charismatic. Personality beats politics in elections, especially in today’s social media world.
Miles is right. The mainstream press gives very little time to populist movements and developments that run counter to the establishment DC/NYC viewpoint.
"Government control of corporations doesn't work" but corporations controlling the government does? let's see how they do if we repeal citizens united and ban superpacs from buying legislators.
JLC, I agree with that sentiment. We can’t let corporations control govt either. Any merging the two is bad. They need to be kept separate. Socialism does not keep them separate.
David, Populist movements are often emotionally driven and reactionary. I prefer slow logical reasoning over populist fads.
We can’t cease control to intellectually lazy mob think.
hey, not talking about socialism, I'm talking about the united states today - corporations control all aspects of our lives and have a stronghold in congress and the white house, how do you propose we move forward with that? with a corporate controlled supreme court?
Miles, this might help with your understanding of Venezuela . https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/bernie-sanders-is-dead-wrong-about-whats-happening-in-venezuela/2019/01/31/16360e8c-256d-11e9-ad53-824486280311_story.html?utm_term=.58a8c807e3fb
WaPo is owned by Jeff Bezos, who has a $600m CIA contract and sits on a Pentagon "advisory" board. WaPo was the original source of PropOrNot, which anonymously cited some 200 independent media sites as Russian propaganda, coinciding with Google's action delisting those same sites. You need to upgrade your information sources.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/01/25/opinion/venezuela-maduro-socialism-government.amp.html
How predictable that you would reject the Washington Post, a paper that publishes all sides of an argument. I proved you wrong, yet no apology and no retreat. The far left and the right, waiting for the purest of the pure to free us while good has only been accomplished by imperfect souls. It must be nice to pontificate from a privileged perch. Having looked at your bio, you're one to talk about the oppressed of our world. I don't begrudge you, but please spare me the sanctimony.
The WaPo info is fact, sorry to burst your bubble. Reread this thread, you haven’t proven anything
you’ve only resorted to personal attacks in a futile effort to defend an untenable position.
We'll have to agree to disagree. Just please remember that whatever our differences, they shouldn't get in the way of stopping demagogues like Trump. Let's make sure that doesn't happen again.
Disagreeing won’t make you correct any more than your insult will. You want an apology when you should be offering one.
Sorry you're so angry, what with all those advantages you started out in life with. I'll remind you that you told me to "Stop talking about things you know nothing about" when I actually know a hell of a lot more about Venezuela than you ever will . Like I said, tone it down and move on. We've got bigger fish to fry.
Trump will get re-elected if the dems run on far-left rhetoric. They are so dumb.
Trump won by beating Hillary Clinton, who is a centrist. Trump has not won against an economic populist message. In fact, he sort of used it to win by railing against NAFTA and TPP.
Thayer-D
Tell me, and all the rest here on architnect, exactly what "advantages" I started out in life with?
You keep talking about things you know nothing about. Not exactly a sign of intelligence.
Give it a rest Miles.
trump didn't beat hrc, the electoral college did.
We all know he didn't win the popular vote. But we also all know that the popular vote doesn't decide the winner. So its a little hard to say that "Trump didn't beat her" because if the rules had been different she would've won.
And if the real problem is the electoral college, why are Democrats not elevating that as a problem alongside gerrymandering. I never hear about the electoral college until there is a presidential election.
.
.
Thayer-D: Adios, dipshit.
Hillary defeated Hillary.
Has the US closed Guantanamo Bay detention camp yet?
Which self identifying socialist/communist state would you rather live in than the US?
There are only 5 communist states in the world: China, Vietnam, North Korea, Laos, and Cuba. Of those 5, I could probably be comfortable in all of them except North Korea, obviously.
But to say that I'd "rather" live in the US is a little misleading. I would rather live in New York than Shanghai. But I would rather live in Shanghai than, lets say, Syracuse or Greensboro or Scranton.
But why are those the two choices? Why can't we be a less imperialistic and exploitative country?
Do you realize that China is full of all sorts of human rights violations. It’s not an environment conducive to anyone wishing to be free, or engage in artistic expression. Ask AiWeiWei.
And Shanghai is a capitalist pocket, which is why it doesn’t suck. Nice try.
To your questions, the answer is very simple. You cannot suppress the free exchange of goods and services without suppressing civil liberties. Leftism is NOT compatable with liberalism despite how the media is spinning it. I care about civil liberties, and they are not sustainable with an all powerful state. Capitalism is the necessary, sometimes messy, requirement for a liberal social order. Can we incorporate some degree of public assistance, sure, but it cannot become the ideal. Socialism embraces this at the ideal.
Every time I get into this discussion with right wingers, they always try to push a narrative that confines the presence of socialism in the world to places where Americans look down upon. But the reality is that socialists are governing in many places around the world, including in the US. It does not need to be a "communist state" in order to have socialist programs, strong labor unions, worker-owned companies, cooperative or public housing, etc etc.
If fact, the examining places with a mixed economy with a stronger leftist political culture is probably more relevant to the American discussion than dwelling on the extremes as Fox News tends to do for propagandistic reasons.
Every time I get into this discussion with right wingers, they always try to push a narrative that confines the presence of socialism in the world to places where Americans look down upon. But the reality is that socialists are governing in many places around the world, including in the US. It does not need to be a "communist state" in order to have socialist programs, strong labor unions, worker-owned companies, cooperative or public housing, etc etc.
David, I agree that we can and do have some social programs, but we cannot change the tone and spirit of the narrative towards social-ism or Marxism. There is a huge difference between saying “you can be as rich as you want, do what you want, be a high achieving individual, but if you fall and get too poor we will help you” vs “rich people are evil and we are entitled to their stuff until we are all equal”. The latter is a socialist goal that ends in disaster. The current dem party is adopting that rhetoric. I am not against something like a UBI for instance as long as people can move up as far as they desire from that base safety net, and so long as it can be done without ceasing the fruits of other people’s labor and achievements. That’s just theft and tyranny of the majority, and it results In violence by the state always.
I’m actually in favor of a casino economy if the math can work. Everyone gets a basic livable income...get rid of bloated state and all its stigmatizing welfare programs...you can sit home and paint unicorns all day if you want, write a book, be an architect, or become a millionaire
businessman...that’s a much truer form of freedom.
But we have to get the “spirt” right, stay devoted to maximizing liberty, and not just regurgitate bad ideas of the past.
jla-x:
In China when they do executions they do it en masse and have hundreds of doctors standing by to harvest the organs of the recently executed prisoners. Just a thought.
sure, not the same as being executed, but not far off:https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/16/health/drug-overdoses-organ-transplants-study/index.html
Nice list of countries that still murder their prisoners, here's the top ten:
1. China
2. Iran
3. Saudi Arabia
4. Iraq
5. Pakistan
6. Egypt
7. UNITED STATES
8. Somalia
9. Bangladesh
10. Malaysia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment#Capital_punishment_by_country
Randomised, there is a big difference between killing someone like Ted Bundy in US, and killing someone for being gay like in Pakistan. This list lacks nuance. Not that I necessarily agree with capital punishment, mostly because of potential for innocent people to be wronged, but there is no moral equivalency between US and most of the others on the list.
Nope, there's no difference. State sanctioned killings of people for simply breaking the law is wrong no matter how you try to spin it.
Simply breaking the law? Wrong. In the US capital punishment is reserved for the true monsters. There is no equivalence between executing a serial murder or mass killer vs a marijuana dealer or a person who criticizes their government. Cultural relativism is another dubious belief of the far left.
You literally started that statement explaining how our system is better due to the relative levels of cultural violation we require for the death penalty and then claim cultural relativism is a dubious belief of a group of people you love to demonize. Irony alert. Again.
Huh? So thinking that a mass killer is worse than a person who grows marijuana is a matter of culture? Doesn’t make sense.
A society that executes someone for Being gay is worse than one that executes someone for being a serial killer. That’s obvious to anyone with a brain.
research how many marihuana users/"dealers" are in jail for even one spliff vs death row inmates, please. And see if you can find how much money does the corporation running the prisons gets for each, you'd be surprised how profitable it is to jail people, when you - "taxpayer"- are in fact paying those ceo's for it.
don't talk about socialism in a country that subsidizes capitalism with taxpayer money, it's embarrassing for you and the country
We shouldn’t subsidize anything. And pot should not be illegal. Still can’t draw a moral equivalency between US justice system and Pakistan. We are better.
Far from perfect, but far better.
"A society that executes someone for Being gay is worse than one that executes someone for being a serial killer. That’s obvious to anyone with a brain. "
A society that executes criminals is also executing innocent people. Researchers say that 4.1% of executed prisoners were falsely convicted. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/many-prisoners-on-death-row-are-wrongfully-convicted/
Yeah, that’s why I said I don’t agree with capital punishment. Point was obvious to anyone not possesed by an ideology. Killing a person who commits mass murder is not as bad as killing someone who commits adultury. Punching a grown man who stole your dog is not as bad as punching a baby for looking at you. this is not hard to understand.
Gotta hand it to Trump, he gave all the ignorant ideologues license to spout their nonsense at top volume. Before him they were satisfied spewing their mindless garbage in bars while drowning themselves in Coors light. In a way it's a public service because now we know who they are.
So, you want populism, but not for the uncouth. What if that’s the populous?
Leftist: “power to the working class”. Also leftist: “drive your truck and shut up”.
aimless centrist: Miles Jaffe used a working class stereotype in an Archinect forum, therefore Marx was wrong.
Logical person: Every socialist and communist society ever has been a complete disaster resulting in mass poverty, oppression, and murder, therefore Marx was wrong.
aimless centrist? LOL closet libertarian.
Aw crap jla-x, my reply didn't make it past the editing time frame. Too bad...it was something about the US having the most prisoners absolutely and relatively as well, about the US putting way more non-whites in prison, and having over 1in 5 people incarcerated without trial, you know the drill...but will probably "relativate" the hell out of it.
Randomized, if you think you have more rights in the countries on that list you should go there and criticize them as you are doing in/to the US and see what happens...
Miles, I’m more of a centrist libertarian.
Ah yes, deportation as a response to criticism, classic! You're behaving more and more like those countries you seem to despise, LOL.
You can't even kneel in the US without losing your job (as a black man) when the national anthem is playing, give me a break.
random, Deportation? Horrible reading comprehension on your part. Actually they can kneel in the US. It’s called freedom of speech. If someone if fired for exercising that freedom they have legal recourse they could take. Here’s a soft ball. Who has more freedom of speech an American or a Chinese citizen? This is very easy stuff. Your blind hatred for the US is clouding your logic. You are holding the US to a very high standard, and being very generous with other nations that are clearly far more oppressive.
The leftist narrative is hilariously racist in that respect. You hold the west to a far higher standard than the “exotics” that you almost treat like beings incapable of meeting the liberal morality that you demand upon those in the West.
You bitch about relativism in the SAME POST THAT YOU CHAMPION RELATIVISM. I'm not taking issue with your moral stance, I'm pointing out how your holier-than-thou attitude is not earned. You think you've got it all figured out but can't even agree with yourself in three sentences!
I don’t think you understand what cultural relativism is, or what I wrote. I judged the laws of another culture from the perspective of my culture. That’s the exact opposite of what cultural relativism is. I’m not sure what you are talking about.
Judging from my superior cultural perspective, if killing someone warrants the death penalty, then obviously countries that sanction death penalties should be killed.
you seem to miss the nuance of the point. The West has a better and more just system than Iran, China, Saudi Arabia, etc etc. This does not mean the West is perfect. Just means it is more just and overall better in terms of human rights and liberties. This is not controversial or difficult to grasp.
Back to socialism...WHAT gives you the right to other people’s money? Why should you have 70%-90% of Floyd Mayweathers purse, or Jay-Zs record sales, or DiCaprios acting fees, or Walt Disney? What does their wealth take away from you? Or does this just apply to corporations that you don’t like? We have to apply laws evenly, so obviously we are not going to distinguish between Sam Walton and Beyoncé right? The left is inconsistent. They denounce the idea of a moral “truth” when it comes to certain things, but then hold a conviction that wealth is a immoral, that equality at all costs is moral, etc, etc...
Hope you build your buildings out of better straw than you do your arguments.
Youre not even sure what you're talking about.
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