This week Amelia, Paul, Donna and Ken discuss the somewhat controversial Google Headquarters design by BIG and Heatherwick. On a completely different note, we also discuss the new, and the nation's first, slavery museum, Whitney Plantation, in Louisiana.
As always, you can send us your architectural legal issues, comments or questions via twitter #archinectsessions, email or call us at (213) 784-7421. And if you can, we'd love for you to rate us on iTunes or Stitcher!
Listen to episode nineteen of Archinect Sessions, "Don't be Evil, Don't Throw Stones":
19 Comments
Donna I wish you could lecture at Howard University school of Architecture next time you are in DC!
Thank you, j_maxim! I'm enjoying DC so much, even with the snow. It feels like an important place.
I will be here for Grassroots next year too, but I think it's being shifted to July instead of March...
Great show guys.
I hope you're not too frozen out of DC Donna. I'm glad you guys touched on the issue of Google's hi-tech office park. Not to take away from the surely innovative and cool aspects of the glass skin they envision, but to actually question creating a 'corporate campus', when companies like twitter have relocated to where the employees seem to prefer living, ie, old San Francisco. Speaking of a "better environment through design", there was an interesting posting of a video on a local DC site, Greater Greater Washington, that speaks this very idea and especially relevant looking at how cutting edge Google is trying to market it self.
http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/25957/what-makes-a-city-attractive-heres-how-to-know-for-sure/
btw, I especially appreciated Amelia's take on the Slavery Museum/Park, or whatever you'd like to call it. The importance of his having saved the sight and including recordings of how slaves felt, with-in the site reminds me of how the pile of shoes in the Holocaust museum works in bringing the victims humanity into our face. Personally, I don't care how it's done, but a very important piece of our history was preserved which couldn't be transported to DC, all though I see Ken's point. It is all of our history though, and the fact that a rich white guy did this speaks volumes to our common humanity.
Given how engaged everyone was with the topic, I think the Slavery Park/Museum deserves more time on the show with one addition- voices of color.
Furthermore, while I respect Ken's commitment to his beliefs, he totally fell into the classic binary trope of "our history" and "their history." This is one of the underlying problems of regarding these spaces. Once you separate (architectural) history into separate stories you are more than capable of editing and omitting stories. To put this in perspective, there are already a number of precedents for slave quarters and landscapes being used for educational purposes. One of the most prominent would be Monticello, Thomas Jefferson's residence and The accompanying slave quarters on Mulberry Row.
If this is indeed a definitive cultural and architectural legacy of the United States- more so than modernism, I think it would be great to hear more about this from multiple perspectives. It's a problematic topic and exciting to hear the discussion in this venue.
Lscapeisaverb, I think that's a great point—a collection of white people are sitting around saying that a white guy's not the right person to tell this story, but isn't that a bit of a tail-chaser? I mean, if it's not white people's story to tell, who are white people to judge whose story it is to tell? And is it being "their history" a gracious way for white people to sidestep an uncomfortable topic, or the right thing to say to be respectful of people who it impacted in a negative way, or is it as much of a burden to them as it is a respectful recognition?
I don't say this to give the people putting this together too hard of a time, because I appreciate that they took on the topic and are giving a platform to this conversation. Just some questions it left me with, particularly in light of the point above.
Erin, I also appreciate that the project was brought up and that they were all very engaged in the discussion, that's exactly why I want to hear more.
Nor am I trying to suggest that one American sub-group has the right to tell "the story." My point is that a diverse group could be pulled together to discuss this project as a collective. This is one of those cases in which architecture and landscape embody American cultural history and mores in a very clear way. I just think it's an opportunity to really explore that relationship in a meaningful way.
Lscape, thanks for the great comments. Sometimes it's difficult on a podcast to speak with clarity and conviction, without sounding like an idiot. First, you're right, our discussion about this should've included a black perspective. My essential point is that this experience is not one white mans to tell, and some of the comments on the piece in the Times bear this out, and that he should be careful to tell the story and not a skewed view, sanitized view, or privileged view. One of the comments on the NYT site notes about the important themes left out. I feel this museum is a National burden, and shame, and it shouldn't be left to private citizen, in state, it should be on the Mall and be a collective experience, that's how we can educate future generations. Something of this importance can't be left to the whims of private foundations and or citizens. We need to own our past.
Ken, so I googled "Slavery Memorial" and found this on Wikipedia -
The National Slave Memorial is a proposed memorial to honor the victims of slavery in the United States. It was introduced during a 2003 Congressional session.[1] Professor Ira Berlin noted that the proposed memorial is an example of the interest Americans in the early 21st century still have in the facts and legacy of slavery.[2] The legislation has not been adopted; instead Congress supported the creation of the National Museum of African American History and Culture,[3] which is in the process of being erected on the National Mall.
definition search by google says -
memorial - something, especially a structure, established to remind people of a person or event.
museum - a building in which objects of historical, scientific, artistic, or cultural interest are stored and exhibited.
i will go check it out if my car ever gets out of the f'ing shop.
Ken,
Thank you for making that point in the podcast. I agree with the notion that this should be something more than one persons exclusive narrative as historic documentation.
I'm beginning to think that this endeavor should be considered as a long term project, instead of in this immediate moment. If that's the case how will it compare to other learning landscapes run by private not for profit organizations such as Monticello and similar cultural facsimiles. Or would a more appropriate comparasion be the Disney USA proposal?
And Olaf, your reference to the Smithsonian project is right in line with the question at hand. The project was "designed" by David Adjaye, who is of African origin, and British in traning. Is his voice more appropriate to that of Davis Brody Bond or the Freelon Group, firms that were also part of the winning proposal?
So it's interesting that in this discussion we've not mentioned the fact that this museum, the Whitney Plantation, is a cultural remembrance entirely embedded in PLACE, in other words, in the buildings themselves in which these events happened. The Adjaye project in DC, however well it tells a tragically important story, won't have that power. The existing plantation museums gloss over or hide the fact of slavery; this is (reportedly) the first time the slaves' point of view is being told from the place their story happened.
When I visited the Colosseum in Rome it was overwhelmingly emotional; I couldn't stay for long and left feing very agitated and dismayed. I assume the Whitney will have similar power.
Apologies, I was trying to suggest place by referring to the landscape, point well taken.
But does the fact that some of the slave quarters are not from that plantation dilute the power of the place (an honest question)? At what point do all the substitutions and sculptural embellisments begin to contaminate the history of the place? Those are honest questions.
Donna, very good points, but as I noted in the podcast, I would say that what should happen to all plantation sites is that they should fall under the National Parks service, I think the Revolution, and Civil War fields have become parks sites. My central argument is that a Slavery Museum, or Memorial, is national priority, and as such should be placed in DC. With this particular plantation, and museum, it's my sense that as a private investment, it's subject to the whims of private individuals, no matter how well intended.
Below is a comment on the NYT section, referencing one of my concerns;
"Having reviewed the website, it appears that the museum catalogues the history of the plantation without addressing how the slaves were treated. Nothing is said of daily life -- were there whippings, rapes, murders? Nor is there a reference to the historiography of slavery, where giants of history like Elkins, Beard, and Genovese characterize daily life based on historical research. The website suggests that the museum merely catalogues names, numbers, dates and prominent events. If you want to know where the master was born, who he married, and how wealthy he became, it's all here. Whether he was sadistic, a rapist or a murderer we do not know. This is not a slavery museum. It's the history of a plantation told from records of the owners."
If the museum is a place sanitized, so as to not offend, then it fails. I can't imagine not seeing images of the mass graves, or stock piles of shoes at any on the concentration sites in Europe, I just can't.
let me be a little less subtle....As a fairly well read American I was not aware of a national monument to those who suffered and perished under slavery, so when I googled "Slavery Memorial" I was expecting maybe a national monument in DC I wasn't aware of....I was not mocking Ken.
It appears congress skipped the Memorial and went straight to a Museum, seems very convenient to me, no?
From what I read this Cummings is a freak of nature, scrappy Irish Catholic (8 children, $5 billion in legal settlements as a lawyer)....it takes a person like him to do possibly what congress or any joint committee is unwilling or capable of doing...
also from the NYTimes piece - Not Sanitized I might add..
"Before leaving the grounds, Cummings stopped at the edge of the property’s small lagoon. It was here that the Whitney’s most provocative memorial would soon be completed, one dedicated to the victims of the German Coast Uprising, an event rarely mentioned in American history books. In January 1811, at least 125 slaves walked off their plantations and, dressed in makeshift military garb, began marching in revolt along River Road toward New Orleans. (The area was then called the German Coast for the high number of German immigrants, like the Haydels.) The slaves were suppressed by militias after two days, with about 95 killed, some during fighting and some after the show trials that followed. As a warning to other slaves, dozens were decapitated, their heads placed on spikes along River Road and in what is now Jackson Square in the French Quarter.
“It’ll be optional, O.K.? Not for the kids,” said Cummings, who commissioned Woodrow Nash, an African-American sculptor he met at Jazz Fest, to make 60 heads out of ceramic, which will be set atop stainless-steel rods on the lagoon’s small island. “But just in case you’re worried about people getting distracted by the pretty house over there, the last thing you’ll see before leaving here will be 60 beheaded slaves.”
The memorial had lately become a source of controversy among locals, who were concerned that it would be too disturbing.
“It is disturbing,” Cummings said as he pulled out past Whitney’s gate. “But you know what else? It happened. It happened right here on this road.”
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sounds like something ISIS would do, in case you needed some perspective...and from what I can tell Cummings is not sanitizing it, rather doing what hasn't happened yet really...
The sculpture is one of the things that worries me. It is sensationalizing the events that occurred and as a "historical reenactment," the location is all wrong. Put the sculpture in Jackson Square- then you've got the story. I can't imagine what thus place is, or more importantly how it manipulates your psyche. I keep imagining a mashup somewhere between Colonial Williamsburg and Marfa.
But the "not for the kids" statement suggests that there will be some inconsistencies in the history being told. Some will get the message, others will not because the content may be too graphic for them. Doesn't that defeat the purpose a little?
Ken, two questions out of curiosity.( 1) Why must this occur in DC? The Cooper-Hewitt is place inspired (in New York) and part of Smithsonian, so why can't other stories be tied to the place? Furthermore (2) Are you concerned that the Freelon, Adjaye, Davis Brody Bond Group museum for the Smithsonian will be inadequate in addressing this? If so what is your reasoning?
Finally, I would be careful of comparisons to ISIS. These are artifacts of American history and lynching is still a threat in the United States. I won't go too far out on a tangent, but just do a search for lynching truck.
Architecturally speaking, what is a museum these days especially after the Bilbao effect? I can't speak for Ken, but this may be where he is heading with the "sanitizing" point and from what I can tell the wiki page was suggesting that as well, as I tried to make more clear above. By definition a museum exhibits information right? And if the exhibit is to radical the museum can write off the artist. If it's a memorial you can't write anything off if you are the public organization that financed the memorial.......I did not know Auschwitz Birkenau is considered a museum now as well. I went probably 15 years ago and similar to the sculpture exhibit as noted above, barracks were filled with glass,shoes, clothes etc....just piled together with stories on plaques in front of the exhibits. And then there were black and white videos of kids jumping into the outhouse cesspool to avoid death....and of course there were the ovens next to the gas chambers.....I wouldn't call any of the at "sensationalized"
Lscape, my take is twofold; first, DC, as the place where national laws are constructed, and where the root of the problem emanated, and ultimately will be resolved, this would be a constant reminder to those in power how far we've come and how far we need to go. Second, this is the time of year when eighth grades around the country visit DC with an eye towards our collective civic responsibility and a museum or memorial would serve that end. Lastly, to people around the world, this would educate about our past.
I agree this should be dealt with at the national level for all the reasons Ken mentioned, but that doesn't take a cent away from what was achieved here, as Donna laid out. We can do both at the same time. Isn't the African American museum going to deal with it on a national level though? Personally, I would rather experience it in this site with the voices of those who suffered through this tragedy. Being a romantic, I prefer the sensory experience, as long as it isn't false. Also, just because something is government sanctioned, doesn't mean it won't be subject to the manipulations and sanitations worried about from private hands. If respected scholars declare the Louisiana museum a Dollyland, then that's the way it will play out. In the mean time, as a hysterical preservationist, I'm really glad this man saved a bit of our history, be him white, black or purple.
To Donna/Paul's point re: the urban/public nature of the proposed project;
If they are trying to reverse parking lots/sprawl and add greenways and make a bit more of a urban live work "campus" perhaps, does that "public" infrastructure function more like a POPs than anything else? Is it just for employees?
Also, has anyone else confirmed (or maybe to early?) I assumed these would be built with ETFE or something instead of glass.
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