By switching off the floodlighting we want to make those on the march stop and think. It is a challenge: consider who you are marching alongside. — theguardian
Cologne cathedral to switch off lights in protest at anti-Muslim march.
Two strong reads are possible, one with the actual intent of the official response to racist march to show church's disapproval, the other is more involuntary, perhaps recalling the core of the situation as the idea of crusades are reflamed across Europe in recent times. Perhaps it will never be possible to take marchers' cross away.
A quote from
" Most Pegida followers insist they are not Nazis but patriots who worry about the “watering down” of their Christian-rooted culture and traditions. They often accuse mainstream political parties of betraying them and the media of lying."
Given the 'scale' of the gesture though, I need to conclude this news bit by saying architecture is a powerful medium for public to read messages and the off switch is always there to say yea or nay.
43 Comments
the 'watering down' notion (2nd qoute) is hilarious, unless you argue western secularism has it's roots in Christianity, which you arguably could via Martin Luther to Humanism, etc.
So the lights and the church are a reminder of a mostly forgotten conscience, an Easter or Christmas service type of thing, for when things get a little out of control.
_
Freedom of Religion = Freedom of Sports Team Choice
It's the same thing really, and DirectTV lets you enjoy this freedom like the open planes of North America during the days of Colonization. DirectTV makes money and you enjoy your freedom ;) Everyone wins, especially the Banks who have NO sport team affiliations.
If you're a born and bread a diehard Philadelphia Eagles fan and maintain your fanaticism when you move to New York City expect to be harassed, heckled, mocked and maybe when you run into other diehard fanatics, expect to get into a fight and even end up in the hospital or dead.
If you're a politician and you want to distract the locals from real topic you should always bring up sports. Being a Sports Fanatic is good for votes and a cause, it gets the crazies going and the mild manner citizens into it.
Lastly, if the meat heads get out of control and start beating up other mea theads or even an innocent casual Sunday football fan - that's when we turn off the stadium lights and remind everyone - its just a game.
Are you a meat head or a casual fan?
Orhan, this also begs the question would the 'light off' of a modern building be as effective? (One link I think says a museum did same) and could a Rem Koolhaas diagram of embodied capitalism be as effective? Is this a Tschumi moment?
to your second comment, yes. but someone (maybe you) has to build a good case on the weaponization of mass art.
would turning off the lights on cctv building symbolize anything? imagine all the possibilities. who's got the switch? a meathead manipulated by the illuminati?
Orhan I do have a project related to your first point, and if it becomes successful and my partner on this project decide anonymity should cease I will clarify retroactively, and I think I can build a case.................'illuminati' is a rational conversation killer, dude......but since you suggest it in the same post as CCTV. See this March 17 Quondam forum post - http://archinect.com/forum/thread/95866847/17-march sorry on phone, can't link.
Something different but more to the core, a political cartoon from a Turkish political humor magazine Akbaba in 1935, when invasion was to the south of Gibraltar and Malta. I am all for these hypertexts. How much more rational you want to be, pure data? Do you laugh at the pun, illuminati with the control of the light switch, lol...? Buildings they control are overscaled and powerful. CCTV is powerful, Pentagon is powerful, art museums on the other hand are currently more about entertainment and belong to an actual market even though they think they are powerful and widely public. Funny enough, same day this was revealed. Benevolent ping pong is the term I was looking for. Now that new church in Turkey should have digital billboard.
It is sad when multi-culturalism is seen as an invasion.
The illuminati is such a joke. I think it was John Buchanan , who made it for his spy novel THE 39 Steps (also a movie wo the illuminatiion reference) Flemmings James Bond CHAOS came out of this fiction, Good novel anyway.
and tonight, amazingly clear image in the dark.
It's hard for me to ever imagine a group of one percenters getting together like community organizers or socially driven groups....but that was a good pun none the less...................
The lights are now literally going out on European civilization, I guess.
what do you guess/mean gwharton? can you elaborate?
I mean that European civilization is dying, and having the lights on a grand cathedral shut off in nominal support of part of the process that is killing it is depressingly symbolic.
ok, do you think and/or agree muslims are the ones who are responsible for killing european civilization because church was opposing to islamophobic march?
Oh Orhan stop digging....a bunch of assholes shot 12 people today. Enough dude.
enough what? why are you being rude to me?
can't I condemn the terror and be critical of racism? here is a beautiful piece my friend javier arbona wrote today if you are interested looking at today's carnage via a wider perspective.
#JeSuisCharlieHebdo?
digging. that's like pseudo-meathead journalism. not rude, just honest.
"ok, do you think and/or agree muslims are the ones who are responsible for killing european civilization because church was opposing to islamophobic march? "
you can't come up with better questions? really?
was this really an architecture post or a piece to promote and propagate your agenda?
what is your agenda Orhan? How do you intend to 'illuminate' our minds?
lots of work today, so I'll just point out some serious journalistic problems with your post(s) so that you can understand where some people are coming from.
Propositions by Orhan:
1. "can't I condemn the terror and be critical of racism?"
2. "..perhaps recalling the core of the situation as the idea of crusades are reflamed across Europe in recent times."
Conclusion based on Orhan's Logic:
Orhan is suggesting that Islam is a race and not a religion, moreover the rejection of this race's rituals and practices is similar to the days of the crusades over 1000 years ago.
Based on your logic you are providing to those who would counter you:
If it's fair to say Europeans are acting like the crusades, or regressing culturally a 1000 years, it's also fair to say, by your very same logic, that terrorism is a regression culturally within the race of Islam.
(again I don't think Islam is a Race, but you're saying that, see point 1).
enjoy your day and concentrate on architecture, I recommend it.
Thumbs UP for the retort Chris.
It's easy to defend delusions if every problem is an "islamaphobe" one.
so you come here as if you are the superior race, don't even hesitate to write why you hate turks (me included) because of a skateboard incident, and keep insulting me using cowardly ways of calling meathead and you bring it up again, and basically tell me I can't write what I want to write (interesting that freedom of press thing isn't it) and bring up race-nation stupid logic of yours ... and the other certified racist, a known child-killer supporter, joins you... haven't i seen this before?
chris teeter, you are a nuisance and a bully. if there is more in your head, i don't read it from your posts, from your word salads and use of a bad rhetoric.. i tried to talk to you but you are impossibly and surprisingly uninteresting debater. i suggest you don't participate in things i write. this is more about ideas. go discuss decorative lines on a tailor remodel... you are more equipped and fit to read yearly report of architectural gossip.
"heeey frank gehry raised another finger, this time it is with zaha"
go ahead have an awful day.
The invasion of Islamic and other non-European peoples into Europe is a secondary consequence of the social and cultural sickness which is killing European civilization, not the cause. But that doesn't mean it's a good thing or not harmful, either.
The harm is pretty obvious now, and growing.
gwarton, can you be more specific about social and cultural "sickness" killing europe?
well that escalated quickly. Came here for the article and it's interesting read not accusations of child killings support...
I'll look more closely at an article's author next time I guess. A real shame Orhan, you've had some good pieces before. You've inability to see anything other than some shade or another of islamaphobia is pretty sad. Bad ideas, bad demands, and bad expectations are what people criticize, most of which, only return vile comments from the likes of you. This cathedral-lights thing could have been even more interesting if you had not pasted your stench over it and let a discussion evolve by itself. I trust you won't understand this, but that's not something I'll lose anymore time with.
But, more to the point, freedom of expression and of the press are paramount. More of those great french cartoons depicting the ridiculousness of all religions should be printed with pride.
It is imperative, at this frightening intersection, to resist the coercive call to stand behind a vacuous, hypocritical, shallow slogan about “free speech.” The response to the horrible tragedy in Paris already seems to become folded into the same previous mode of thinking that enabled the magazine to exist and thrive. It is a mode in which there is no deliberation of better or worse ideas; just a liberal “freedom” excuse to embrace hate (albeit hate selectively applied, despite liberal disclaimers otherwise).
some might say we should end free speech. i call for any thread where 'child killing' is brought in, unless it's actually somehow related to child killing, should be immediately banned by archinect and/or their editors. we don't need a free an open area of discourse. we need people like the person who wrote the above paragraph to tell us what we are or are not allowed to believe. generally speaking, that of course means western beliefs should be suppressed while non-western beliefs are lightly touched with kid-gloves for fear of offending overly sensitive readers and editors.
i hope we should be able to agree, 'western' or not, that killing children is a sensitive topic and worthy of being banned on archinect. at least if we're going to start restricting free exchange of ideas, it's a pretty good place to start. perhaps posts including the term 'superior race' should be banned as well.
shit is stuck on your pants clean it, and use your time wisely.
i have no more involvement and approval of anything in paris than you have with columbine shooting. you guys are an army of foreign name haters especially when it is a muslim sounding name. if this was posted by a jack or jill you'd start your posts on whole different way instead of dumping your hatred of the "other" on me. i have seen countless examples of that here and endured over the years. now get lost and don't comeback. i am done with trying to communicate with your kind of veiled hate mongers. you offend me on purpose and you always blame the other for that hate.
you seek freedom for the cartoonists and the like but have no room for someone who writes like me you fucking hypocrites... yes that is what you are to the core!
Doubtful I implied you had anything to do in Paris. I see no reason for that.
I criticize how you imply that everything said is against certain people of a Muslim cultural background. I criticize ideas first and foremost and you can't stand to have this particular one criticized.
And Orhan shows his true colors once again.
all i did was ask you a few questions gwharton... is it that hard to take?
non sq and you , that's all you know.., colors... as in skin colors and anatomy... there is nothing hidden about me (from colors to shoe size) here. yet we have no idea who you are other than you are a hate mongering no one, hidden behind a wanna be name.., who hates myself, tammuz because it is easy and nobody questions that racist act and we always confront your hateful beliefs. i wouldn't want to be you. you are cold, spineless and ultimately, hooligans...
Orhan, you are a trip and so full of hate, I don't think anyone can have a rational conversation with you. You also appear to be slightly paranoid and schizophrenic, unless you are joking about this whole 'illuminati' stuff...
"By switching off the floodlighting we want to make those on the march stop and think. It is a challenge: consider who you are marching alongside."
That qoute is for you Orhan, who you marching with these days?
You are correct I will not participate in your racist intolerant accusations and poorly edited and created posts that have one goal in mind, which is to get some 'white westerner' to say something slightly 'politically incorrect' so you can berate their culture and history since you essentially are 'racist'.
You embarass yourself, Turks, and Muslims. The 'white westerner' hate mongers, your doppelgangers, thank you for this.
everything you say about me is your making. you are ugly, low and desperate. i am sorry i was kind to you. why would otherwise say this unfounded stuff to polish your hatred for me.
Ironic: Javier's lovely piece about how using intentionally hateful rhetoric should trigger a desire for more reasoned, nuanced debate rather than an inflaming of the hateful rhetoric leads to a bunch of people flinging hateful rhetoric.
It's a beautiful, thoughtful article, and in no way calls for suppressing free speech: it calls for us all to be smarter about what kind of speech we're willing to consume (which is why I've skimmed/skipped most of this thread).
The original thread here is about public monuments and how the physical objects in our cities - like architecture! - can be used to temporarily express civic ideas. Turning off the church lights is no different from Indianapolis changing the lights on the Bank One Tower downtown to Colts Blue during the Super Bowl. I hate the NFL and don't support the gesture, but I can still discuss how these kinds of civic gestures are related to architecture.
curtkram, you are duplicitous. Few months ago when Palestinian children were actually blown up to pieces in Gaza you had no interest in banning it nor you speak against it other than saying it was Israel's right to defend itself. Now you want the mention of the killing banned? Shame on you.
i was absolutely interested in banning that thread orhan. you just weren't listening.
are you really that upset with me because i don't want to get rid of a group of people based on their ethnicity and/or religion? my position is pretty consistently in support of tolerance and support of accepting people into our communities without concern for their ethnicity, religion, or the sound of their last name. if you were able to get over whatever it is you're hung up on, i think you'd find i'm pretty moderate and accepting.
of course you still aren't listening, so you'll continue thinking i'm the racist one for not picking the side i think should be committing genocide against the other. i still think a person has a right to exist even if they're born a white jew. i suppose that means you'll throw another tantrum and call me names like 'baby killer.'
I'm not talking about banning a thread but boycotting (banning) the perpetrator who killed those children and other innocent people. That's what I'm talking about. The thread was fine until it got smeared by the hooligans, some of them are still here posting about what's right what's wrong about architecture but were at a point of cheering the awful indiscriminate bombing of the innocent and defenseless.
and chris teeter, that confused wanna be intellectual swine no talent with words turk hater.
how ridiculous you sound when you tell me to shut up ("enough dude") for posting what i posted, asking peacefully a poster to clarify what he said on a relevant issue on this news thread which i started. what makes you any different than someone asking not to draw a cartoon? what makes you think i hate "white" people? do you have any proof anywhere in here in my 10+ years in architect i hate white people? my wife is white you asshole. how dare you say i am schizophrenic? dirty irresponsible bastard. why are you holding me responsible for some turkish kids possibly beat you up for a skateboard incident in your teenage life? how ridiculous is that on top of everything which fuels your hatred.
you are a swine.
Is everyone getting upset at each other over similar views? I feel like everyone is saying the same thing but still getting mad at each other. I'm assuming we all agree that civilizations should be tolerate and accepting of all cultures, whether it is Jewish vs Muslim, Muslim vs Jewish, European vs Muslim, European vs Jewish, etc. Tolerance. Just like we can have between each other in a thread, possibly?
Orhan buddy calm down, you are using some seriously hateful words here. You should read my words better like I read yours. I qualified the paranoid schizophrenic sentence, see after 'unless'. I noted prior that your pun was fantastic. I too have been on archinect for over 10 years and I would not have to go much further back than a year to build my case here. The skateboard incident was a story to test what is important to Orhan and you walked right into the journalistic "entrapment", maybe you know how that works, maybe you don't? You also did not do your due diligence, information clearly available on the Internet would indicate I have worked with/for, had friends, of all races including Turkish, Palestinians, and even Iranians (could you imagine) all with names that are not jack and jill. When you are talking about architecture you are a funny guy. Not like Joe Pesci funny, your political commentary is a little more Joe Pesci funny (that is a Goodfellas ref). That is all I am really saying here isn't it? So the anger and 'swine' accusations seem a bit harsh. I would also like to note that the "politically correct" or "socially acceptable" response to my noting with "enough dude" on your entrapment-islamaphobia-case-building journalistic posting that ensued on this thread while the shootings occurred - would have been for you to not acknowledge that as an event representing anything you are saying, moreover you should have said you are saddened by such a tragedy, instead as gwharton is saying you EXPRESSED your true colors by not addressing it on your own really. What gwharton's statement means Orhan, is who you are deep inside comes out when someone questions your nature and intent. I will not post on anymore of your political posts, I promise, as my critique apparently inflames you and calls out your intent clearly. But if you want to talk architecture without layering it in other bullshit I may comment assuming you approve. Have a great weekend and I do love me some swine, nothing like bacon and beer!
I am not playing any games of entrapments or straw man. These are very serious matters for me and it is not easy to lace it with occasional humor if it needs it. I am subjected to difficult side of being the other. I am confronted with various amounts of racial slurs, entrapments and other lowly behavior in my normal daily life, especially after 9/11. It is certainly not a game, joke or any other recreational pastime.
If you want to play journalist, here is an advice for you: don't play those games if you seriously want to report anything matters. At the end, you are just fooling yourself in a juvenile game of winning an argument. I am not interested in that. If you need to think more about what I am saying, then be it. I am not interested in educating you nor write a product report. Not everybody gets what I write pronto. It is okay. Don't be so snide and childish to win an internet argument, it is boring. Don't target the writer (or anybody else for that matter) with irrelevant ad hominem. If you want to write well, don't write anything unless there is an idea or image in it. You need to enjoy what you are writing. It is not all that easy to write unless you are constantly congratulating yourself making derivative word salads. Write something from your heart and then comeback and counter me. I won't be offended. I don't write to be right or wrong. That is very dreadful and uninteresting to me.
I hope this helps with your writing ambitions. Bon appetit. There is no charge for this.
well thank you for calming down and rationally explaining a few things...I guess it could just be your style of writing then that tends to offend and suggest multiple 'edgy' possible 'racist' sub-tones with weed like paranoia? like Alex Jones maybe? (i like the guy for many reasons, but don't take him too seriously...)
your post above doesn't help me here though, now I'm more conflicted, ha!
you say - write from your heart and I'm saying if you were writing from your heart in this post and the posts that proceeded above, you then are all those things I am proposing which got you really pissed off...it's gwharton's quote over and over and over...
I'll eat some swine and have a beer in the meantime. (actually working, but I like to imagine I am having a weekend)
toodles
- Chris
looks like you fast recovered from the excruciating emotional pain of charlie hebdo assassinations and moved on. great ... great.. enjoy your dinner. try carnitas, my favorite. if you already didn't order one maybe you want to wear one of these tee's they are the talk of the town.
Orhan I am pretty sure we are not even in the same room when we discuss..or more appropriately - attempt to have a conversation, let alone rational and in the form of a debate based on documented statements as I attempted from the get go, which swirled into swine accusations quickly...
Since you are talking about selling t-shirts instead of condemning anything ( related.) or noting that giving out the t-shirts would be more appropriate than selling them, and wearing the t-shirt is important - people who wear them are making a political and social statement you know...
For the record, any action that is destructive to society based on any religion is condemned. I'd condemn religion in general, but since it makes some people happy and peaceful I will tolerate any religion.
are you suggesting the people who buy and wear the shirts are 'lemmings' doing the trendy thing, as your 'talk of the town' comment suggests or are you suggesting Capitalism gobbles everything up, including tragedy and finds a method for making money?
"if you already didn't order one maybe you want to wear one of these tee's they are the talk of the town." - is this statement coming from your heart?
hey, maybe we can have Paul tell us the 'hit' count for this post and the ensuing discussion?
yes. most people are doing the trendy thing which is.., flattening the problem. find the religion as a cause is flattening the problem as one of my dear israeli friend called it. in the very beginning of this thread i carefully referred to an anti flattening paradox which still exists.
when the politicians walk hand in hand in the streets of paris (what a great photo op for all the usual suspects, if i was there today, i would be protesting them to begin with) and plus minus million people following their steps, now.., did this many people gathered to protest air and drone strikes on afghani, yemenite, iraqi, syrian and pakistani civilians, did this many people gathered to stop terrorizing, imprisoning the gazans, killing thousands just this past summer, did this many people gathered to protest the coalition of the willing assaulting the middle east since the 90's, did this many people gathered to protest boko haram killings in africa, anybody say anything about us hacking the north korean internet for a movie "commercial" in my opinion? i can go on, violence are bountiful. i understand you can't protest everything and all, but...
...do we ever ask ourselves "why" are these things we see as a threat to our civilization happening? do you?
but here i cut short, like yourself i need to go to work/ing too this weekend.
In those terms, don't you think you 'flattened' the problem here specific to the politics around the turning off of the church lights. It's not 'jihad' as you tagged it and as I suggested European religion is seriously watered down - Nietzsche pointed this out 150 years ago...... The problem is essentially German immigration policy, which is considerably more complicated and sensitive than the luxury of pure discrimination that many European Nations can practice, so any debate on religion is frankly a distraction, see my sports analogy.........................I used your logic to indicate that you were flattening the problem, in essence calling religion a race (intentionally or not) which in turn via deductive reasoning suggested religion could be the problem..............with that said, none of this has really anything to do with architecture or what an architect could do professionally.
The problem of it was I took on a flattened problem already. By that I mean a transference to social problem Europeans having to see the issue as a religious one. Muslims are reacting and using it as an identity issue.
Didn't we discussed this before? From the original item.
" Most Pegida followers insist they are not Nazis but patriots who worry about the “watering down” of their Christian-rooted culture and traditions. They often accuse mainstream political parties of betraying them and the media of lying."
So it s Pegida. They have chosen to flatten it. Look what Murdoch said. He is the voice for millions more.
Whether or not it is useful to architects is relatively unknown. These things are rather digestive issues that my show up someday in the future or not, on a project or a conversation. Just like theory. You may not have an immediate use for it on a, let's say, commercial project somewhere.
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