Michael Rotondi joins us in-studio this week, for a special conversation with Orhan Ayyüce about architecture education and Rotondi's Los Angeles roots. Paul, Amelia, Donna and Ken also discuss ol' fashioned southern contextualism in Charleston, South Carolina, in response to Clemson University's scrapped modern building plans.
Listen to episode eight of the Archinect Sessions podcast, "A Sense of Place":
Shownotes:
Clemson scraps its modern building plan
Renzo Piano will design the new Kum & Go corporate HQ in Iowa
Yaohua Wang wins 2014 Harvard GSD thesis prize with “Salvaged Stadium”
Alexandra Lange’s Saving Buildings with Social Media (Or Not)
Invasion: A First-Hand View of Gentrification in San Francisco
Privately Owned Public Spaces (POPS) in San Francisco
Michael Graves' Team Disney building in Burbank, California
14 Comments
Charleston was bypassed by Sherman on his march through the South. The rest of South Carolina, since they were the first state to secede, was pretty much burnt to the ground. Charleston isn't the only picturesque historical area where this building wouldn't get built. This building wouldn't see the light of day in Santa Fe or Santa Barbara either.
Thanks vado. I knew we were shaky on the war history.
I need to add: I fully intended to say this in the podcast, even had it in my notes, but we ran out of time:
I enjoy that we have these debates on Archinect about historical notions of beauty and preservation and whether or not contemporary architecture is good. That's the entire point of a discussion forum - to bring different points of view to light and talk about them! For everyone who posts here on Archinect there are hundreds who just read - and I feel that the more in-depth discussion we have is helpful to the many, many students and non-architects who come to the site to learn.
I pretty much totally disagree with ThayerD and EKE on historic preservation, but I agree with them on lots of other architecture-related things, and I don't want anyone to feel that their voice isn't welcome. It wouldn't be any fun if we all agreed!
Ugh, oops: mistake on my part. I said Bush Library by Richard Meier and OF COURSE it's Robert A. M. Stern. My mistake - see, we don't edit!
Nice Interview and discussion on contexturalism.
Mr. Rotondi sounds like a very nice and thoughtful person. I completely agree with his observations of working with one's hands and the limitations of technology. I wonder if his enthusiasm for a child's creative spirit would hold if a student of his wanted to design something contextual that worked with pre-modernist styles.
"Aren't we supposed to trust people in power?!?"
I didn't think so, but being a conservative reactionary, what do I know.
Another interesting one concerning the Clemson building was
"Maybe the community didn't like it...but...."
As in, who gives a shit if the people there don't like it. Once again, two distinct worlds, one which happens to look down its nose at the other. Then I think someone asked the very interesting question if this kind of controversy had ever happened in reverse. In other words, had a community ever protested a classical or traditional building in favor of a modernist (one that didn't fit in aesthetically with it's surroundings?). Nobody could think of an example which is no surprise. The more interesting question might have been why not? The old book of San Francisco buildings comes to mind, "A Gift to the Street", so named becasue traditional buildings can be full of all sorts of ornament, historically correct or not, done for the pleasure of the passer by.
"If you're going to do classical design, it needs to be done well" Donna, I would never say something like that. My point was that when you see a simulcrum of traditional detailing on strip malls or residential developments, that they would stand to improve from schooling that taught some basics of proportioning etc. In abstract minimalism, proportioning etc. aren't even considered becasue of the arbitrary nature of abstraction. But even if one was well aquainted with Vitruvian or Palladian proportioning systems, you'd have to be a real stick in the mud not to love the riot of decorations on a typical San Francisco or Amsterdam or any older main street.
I can't speak for EKE who besided writting wonderfully, but in the end, whatever rules or theories you subscribe to, if it makes people smile, then go for it. A gift to the street, not a bad motto, assuming you've got the flashing details right.
The same groups of people who want us to go to war are bringing their lay criticisms to this Clemson building??? Who is that dope who know's shit about history and thinks it's cool to denegrate a whole section of our country? Wow, talk about a sense of entitlement. We white wash our past for a fake version of a quaint past? This guy is no designer if his head is filled with all that garbage. Maybe he should go into sociology, but to write off a style like classicm because it's "imbedded with lynchings"?
So, Charleston's nefarious culture is responsible for axing this building while still glossing over the fact that this building would have been rejected in Beacon Hill or some other location. I'm amazed you get away with such sloppy logic. And contextualism is taught in schools? You mean like IM Pei's window proportions in his Society Hill towers that mimiced the surrounding colonial fabric's window proportions? Or how the cheese grater side of this building is like a louvered shutter? Not sure lay people might agree.
"A history that isn't rigidly adhered to in all aspects" Isn't that what you where claiming classicists wouldn't stand for? You're not 'elitist' for liking modernism, you're elitist when you denigrate a community, a region, a lay person's opinion.
"I'm hopeful that the next generation likes 'contemporary' architecture" Donna, I'm hopeful also, but as long as today's parent's pass along their irrational hatred of contemporary buildings, I just don't have much hope. Allthough, 'modern' developers seem to like shear glass walls, so there is hope.
Some of you have this bad habit of re-phrasing criticism's of your points to suite your re-buttal, but it's so transparent that I wonder if you secretly feel ashamed for such blatant manipulations. That said, I appreciate you all having this open discussion on this site, but I am always amazed about how differently we approach the whole design process and how divergent our priorities seem to be. It would be wonderful to hear you all get a southern classicist on the panel, just for the sake of diversity.
Rotondi's trick re: how to divert folks by "misunderstanding" their intent/question in a conversation and redirecting, is genius...
Also love his admission re: how he remembers things versus "facts". Great episode!
apparently as sherman burned his way through the south, and he really did burn down south carolina, charleston was bypassed because it held a confederate force and because the union gained control of all of the railroad lines out of charleston making the capture of the city a mute point.
i propose a hybridization of the classical and modern with a kardashian caryatid.
"Rotondi's trick re: how to divert folks by "misunderstanding" their intent/question in a conversation and redirecting, is genius..."
That was his least appealing moment in my opinion, but very useful in politics which he seems to have mastered at a young age. The politics of architecture is fascinating. One of the reasons I love archinect.
OMG someone mock up a Kardashian caryatid (really, Karyatid) ASAP, please! Love it.
t-d, it might help to look at things differently from the norm and eventually might lead to new ideas. that was the proper context in the conversation and not necessarily the politics but that's okay too.
I see what you are saying Orhan. I'm all for looking at things differently for exactly the reason you mention. I also don't want to exclude anything some might bring to the design process becasue one never knows where the kernel of genius might come from.
But the 'norm' you speak of isn't the norm in academia, if I understand you correctly. I'd like to see schools teach students the everyday programs of many clients that, while not revolutionary, are out there and certainly valid. Unfortunatly, I don't see a lot of enthusiasm for this kind of thinking in academia (broadly).
Ideally, I think there is room for many points of view, but unfortunatly in politics, it's usually about power, and academia is no different. If one point of view gains prominance, then an opposite view feels threatened. That seems to be the reality of the situation, so I don't know if my ideal is even possible. Eitherway, it was an interesting interview.
I hate being wrong about history.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-destruction-of-charleston-in-the-civil-war-1113419/
t-d, oh yeah, the unmistaken relationship of academia and corporate politics. rotondi is a strategist but there is a loose cannon side to him which i admire. so, he cannot be all that political. just enough political for management of an institution and life survival.
but i also know those in academia who carry full time daggers in their neo liberal and educated put on. those people are not that productive and creative. not interested talking about them nor talking to them.
Thayer-D, we are trying to get opposing voices on the podcast. It's harder than you might think, especially as we record and make it live on a very short schedule.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.