I have been out of work for 13 months in the SF bay area. I am told I do not have recent experience. I do have some real- estate to sell in La Jolla and will sell it this year. That being said. I offer $50,000 for a one year paid internship to create more recent experience.
basically - yes - I am offering to cover the salary - at this point in the game, I consider it an investment. What do I offer? 4 years of Revit experience, 2 years architectural office experience - last position at SOM + $50K up front .
Thats craaazy! Have you thought of doing something else career wise? Cause that 50k can go a long way in getting a new degree in something more useful than arch right about now. Just my two cents.
These times are a lot like the 1930's depression era. I don't know - maybe I am too big of an idiot to get a job - that being said, many, and maybe they were idiots also during the great depression, paid FLW to work at Taliesin. Just a thought. perhaps I should get a degree in something else - then someday, I will look back with regret about " what I have might have been too" I would rather pay the 50K and keep going then just capitulate to circumstances.
you sir are the reason this profession rots from the inside. suck it up hemorrhoid, i am unemployed too, but if i have to, i'll work two jobs, in other fields.
There are way too many obstacles in this profession compared to other fields. I am tired of all the snarky attitudes and pretensions of "I am here and you never will be" type attitudes. What a labyrinth of obstacles - really? I teach friends how to do stuff in Revit, they get the job I applied to, and then once inside, they pull up the ladder and laugh in my face. I am just trying to level the field anyway I can and nobody wants to help out - it's just "go get a job in some other field and suck it up" Whats with all the resistance? the obstacles?
well, then there's one solution; quit. don't lower the bar, thereby making it more difficult for the next person to get a job. i can hear the hiring manager now; you know, i'd like to hire you, even at 40k, but there's this guy and others willing to pay me, for the opportunity to sit in that chair, and frankly, given these hard times, i'd rather not have the expenditures going to salary, when i can get free money.
"you sir are the reason this profession rots from the inside"
"Guess it's true what they say about there always being a bigger idiot out there"
???
Are u guys fucking brain-dead? YOU are the reason there are so many pretentious snots running around architecture. over-inflated, over complicated and as a result the man sticks it to you and you get underpayed. all wanna-be a big shots, no team playeres, let alone good designers. fake-ass bustahs.
rverk.ini has a good idea
Thanks for the replies - that settles it - I will just go back to school- 50k buys another round. There are too many people ahead of me as it is. They are there and I am not - it's that simple.
F2B, when this economy wasn't in the tank people were paying architects to work for them, it's wrong then, and it's wrong now. there is nothing new here, but someone cutting off his nose to spite his/my face.
B3ta, I think this is a very interesting dynamic here.
When people were "paying to work" not to long ago, they were doing so by subsidizing their own personal expenses and not receiving compensation for basically staying alive and showing up to work.
What makes this different is that there really is nothing I can skim from employment law that hints that this would even be illegal.
This could fundamentally change the way an architecture school functions if employers were willing to take cash for students.
Well I prefer to believe that this is a joke, but if you are serious and you want to work for free, I would sign a contract for 1 year in which you cannot get fired and will be paid with the 50k that you invested up front. Or
I would get licensed and invest the money in my own business. Or
Go to school for 2 more years and get a health profession certification, nursing or such…and make pretty good money.
I just consider working for free for charities and help the ones in need.
Thats' basically what I am getting at. It's a form of education via an employer really. I think Vinoly has some kind of internship/education program were you pay them - I might look into it also. I read a lot about Taliesin and how that model might work today with signifigant modification of course.
Taliesin was treated as a school at a time when working as an apprentice was the common route toward becoming an architect.
Just to be clear you are not asking us for our advice on this, correct? You are actually posting this to find someone interested in taking $50k from you in exchange for work experience?
If you're serious about it, this is not the sort of thing people come to archinect discussions looking for so I'm not sure it's the most effective place to advertise, local AIA office might be better.
But honestly for $50k why don't you just use that money look for a paid job outside of SF and move? Especially if you know Revit well many people are hiring for that.
And beyond that I'd have to agree you should look at other lines of work, I'd seriously... no joke... work fast food before I did that. It wouldn't take long to get into management with your abilities and be making as much as you would at any arch firm. There's nothing wrong with looking elsewhere, many of us have been.
I think you can find a job for $50k but I think you're going to find a company who needs the money and will not value you or your time and will dump you at the end of the year and you'll probably have just as much trouble finding a job then and be out the $50k. Shit for $50k you should invest in development or start you or company, develop an iPhone app that all architects need, or a web based Ruby on Rails app, ANYTHING.
so, the point being? what is an education worth, if we have to pay for both the degree and the job?? there is nothing remotely sane in this proposition, ever. what this does prove is this; those that have, can pay, those that don't go on food stamps.
so when you go to interviews after this paid internship expires and they find out you paid someone FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS to WORK for NOTHING, you'll get laughed right out of the conference room.
why don't you design and build some sort of megalomaniacal-and or social welfare structure?
50 large ones isn not a large sum for architecture but its not much less than what PS1 offers...
...You could pull some Columbia grad moves, and throw down on a laser cutter/cnc router and hire some unpaid interns to design bull-shit parametric fantasies which you can show off with a self funded publication.
...Or purchase a broke ass down structure...think design, refurbish...possibly sell for money or give to a family in need.
Or cut the house purchased above in half like Gordon Matta Clark did. (i do not condone copying...just an idea)
"4 years of Revit experience, 2 years architectural office experience".
seriously? and you can't think, design, and build on your own...you want to pay to be a sheep.
This is Capitalism, where if you work hard and get your college degree, you get to work at Home Depot for minimum wage while people with money or connections take the better jobs.
Don't blame rverk, this problem is the profession's own making, it's what they want. When every "entry level" job out there requires 2-5 years prior experience. You have a bachelors degree? In architectural studies? That's nice, but I'd rather hire someone that's worked in a firm for 4 years than someone that's spent 4 years drawing pretty pictures.
Met with a university adviser today, told me I would have to spend $4,000 out of pocket before I could be considered for grad school.
Fuck working hard, trying to be the best person you can be, nobody cares if you don't have the $$ to back it up.
agree w/ tk.arch--If you're actually willing to do this pay for working thing, then you're a tool, and you need to radically change your thought process. going back to school won't do it. you'll just end up taking a bunch more wonky classes, and at best, come out knowing revit better (not good). go to central america; build some kind of shrine. some jersey devil shit.
rverk, I feel bad for you, that you cannot get a job. But honestly you should take that money and invest it in more education, so years from now, when things start to get better, you don't have to have that awkward conversation with a potential employer. Instead they will say, "look at all the letters rverk has behind their name".
how about heading to Africa or south America or even Sri Lanka with a group like architecture for humanity, use your money to fund volunteering building some schools or community centres.
I'm sure most employers would view that as great relevant experience + i shows varying construction /life experience.
WonderK the "letters behind your name" are pretty well meaningless, unless you're a registered architect, then you can start at the bottom at some firm.
Experience is what counts, I don't care if you have an M. Arch, if you've never worked in a firm, only the most mediocre firms will consider hiring you, if that.
What do you think school sponsored internships are? Paying for experience!
I would recommend that you go back to school with a good internship program (if there are any), then you can pay for your experience and those letters behind your name at the same time.
Or go to some Ivy League school, do they have problems getting experience?
Volunteer for Habitat for Humanity for a year, if you can't live off 50k for a year there's something wrong with you, I've lived (barely, but still) off 15k a year.
Milwaukee, the letters behind my name, specifically the ones indicating my Master's degree, are what got me my job. Which is what's funding the many additional letters.
Also I had school-sponsored internships all through undergrad, and every single one of them was paid. Fortunately I went to a school that instilled in me a sense of worth such that I never even considered taking an unpaid internship.
Now the suggestion to return to school is not going to work if all you guys are limiting your field of vision to "all architecture, only architecture"-types of Master's degrees, in which case, don't bother, save your money, and do the Architecture for Humanity volunteering thing. They would love your help! There's just no market for architects, in school or in the field, at this time.
Volunteering makes sense,s/he doesn't even have to go to Africa,there must be some projects in New Orleans. Also I think rverk should still be able to find unpaid internships without "paying to work"! This is unheard of. I would spend that money on either travelling and volunteering(first choice) or getting a masters degree in another field,doesn't have to be medical field..People keep telling me to go become a nurse,I HATE it!
Also,I know it is easier to say than doing it but you can consider moving to another country temporarily and work there? I'm sure it would be a much cheaper option and most countries accept US citizens without a hassle.
There is this company called University of Dreams and they set you up with an internship for about $5,000 to $9,500 but it doesn't only cover the internship, it covers the housing,meals,transportation etc. From what I read on the comments some of the folks even got a trip to Las Vegas. You can check it out as a last resort,it is better than paying 50,000$ but the internship is only for a couple of weeks.
i'll overlook the professional ethics issues as best i can, and go on to say, i think this is a great idea, but you need to be deliberate about how you do this. most medium to large firms will not take this offer seriously. they have their own concerns in this economy and $50k will not even touch their problems (it's unlikely that most firms of this size will do anything unconventional anyway.) you need to find a 1-5 person office to take you up on this offer. an office of this size needs the cash. showing this type of commitment to a firm is in some ways closer to buying in rather than buying an internship. if you lived in detroit, i would take you up on the offer and consider you a financing partner despite your lack of experience. (ultimately you will still need to prove your worth as a contributor to the office.) good luck. with the right taker, i think the idea's got some legs.
I think it is an interesting idea also. This is certainly not why this profession has declined so rapidly. Just look at all the stararchitects that had resources to build/design for their families, thereby catapulting themselves to the top. I see this as no different - you have resources and you want to use them to help your career.
Personally, I'd go get an MBA to diversify your experience and make you more desirable (to the architecture world).
The other thing is the future of the economy. Many are concerned we'll be hitting the double dip down soon. If that happens, you'll really, really want the money for living.
There will be a glut of architects out there for many, many years to come (considering the massive number of unemployed and new grads that are adding up). Even if you get experience, there is no promise of a job at the end (same goes for grad school, which I can't see helping tremendously).
Interesting proposition, though. I think jafidler's comment about being very deliberate is crucial if you do choose to pursue this. I'd also start lower, $50k is a lot of money to anyone. I'd offer to work for free, first and work up from there. Free is pretty good with your Revit experience, just make it clear that you are there to learn.
Good luck.
Oh, lastly, checkout some developers. Most are as bad off as architects (those that are still alive). Find a big one that is used to having an architect or two on staff and you might be able to get some good experience in the business/dev world. They are used to paying more and would probably drool at a 'for free' employee.
i think rverk is gone, but i'll say what i've said elsewhere: recent experience can be what you want it to be. start a studio called 'rverk associates', print some cards, and start doing competitions and home entertainment racks for friends. as long as you're thinking about architecture and using your skills, it doesn't matter if you're in a firm.
...and you can maybe wrap these new projects into your portfolio. since you've got the luxury of time, they should be GREAT!
I think he is already offering to work for free, since the $50K would be used to pay his salary. rverk gives them $50K, and they give it back as salary over the course of the year. so the net to rverk is $0.
agree with the other comments that this should first be approached as investing in a firm from an equity or financing partner position.
this is genuinely the most inspiringly ludicrous thing i've seen on archinect yet...
rverk - i'll take your intentions at face value. so, the question as I see it is that you feel like you can't get a job right now because you lack 'recent experience'. not knowing who you've interviewed with, my opinion is that what you're being told is the 'polite' form of blowoff.
regardless, if you're trying to create some leverage for yourself, in terms of getting future work opportunities, i'd suggest investing in something that has greater value long term. prostrating to a firm right now won't do a whole lot. if need be, work for free for just any old firm. if you want to work for a peter zumthor, then throw the money at him. but to work at the equivalent of som? free would be enough, even for the smaller firms.
personally, i'd think about a couple of other options - you could create, prototype, and fully do a few pieces of furniture with that. spend some of the money wooing the right people in that industry, and see if you can get them into production. why does that matter? you'd potentially show an employer an alternative revenue stream for them (a huge plus these days).
you could also offer to work with non-profits, doing work you're qualified for (maybe planning, predesign, etc). again, if it's something that leads to 'real' work, any owner is going to be impressed. you'd also probably be given a chance to run the project.
point is this: do something that shows an employer an entrepreneurial drive and a sense of self initiative. that'll pay bigger dividends long term than paying someone like som to take you on for a year of bathroom details.
I sell you my position for one year. You pay me $50k and you get my job and my salary (and even my salary that's slighlty higher than those 50,000 bucks) :)
Both of us win!... I have plenty of free time I can use for something else and I get $50k :P
Look.. it seems like you have some equity as well as good skills and eperience as a SOM building designer. Why don't you finance and execute your own residential develop/design/build, perhaps by partnering up with a couple of other entrepreneurs - engineer, contractor, etc, all of who are probably in the same boat as you are? This way you'd get the experience, the returns (since you'd be your own developer), and the bragging rights to having done something reall cool. If you opted to do something sustainable and affordable, you'd also probably qualify for various tax credits and subsidies as well as could apply for grants from CDCs and other community-based not-for-profits.
Given how desperate things are in Californian inner city and urban real estate markets, there should be plenty of very good sites and gut rehabable or trashed-foreclosure buildings you could short sale into for the amount of equity you could pull out of your home sale in La Jolla. Think of it as financial arbitrage, doing good and an experience-getter-all rolled into one. And if it works out, we'll all want to work for you.
That is MUCH MUCH MUCH easier said than done. Even if you have a net worth of millions and sign it all on the line, you'll be really hard pressed to find a bank that'll finance new res development now. That, and you'll still have to have at least 50% presold before they'll consider you.
If you know someone with a TON of money, go for it, but if not that would be incredibly difficult in this market.
You'd need at least 25-30% of the construction costs in cash, about 50% of any land costs in cash (outside of the networth requirements).
Just an FYI, it isn't a walk in the park and requires large resources to even start something like that. In this market, it also takes a lot of prayers.
trace, I wasn't thinking about a big project.. or even market rate for that matter. Even in San Diego you could short- or bank-sale your way into a small but as-of-right-subdividable inner city house at $100 a square feet including the price of the land (actually, that's virtually all going to be land price), which would require $120 in improvements in a gut rehab. Break the 2000-3000 sq ft into 2 or 3 units. New, good, architecturally-interesting construction in the poorest neighborhoods in your area go for about $250/sq ft in today's climate.
The average home in La Jolla (which your selling out of) sells for $450-550/sq ft, based current sales.
Assuming you don't have a big mortgage on the La Jolla property you're selilng, I'm wagering you could do this with your equity, perhaps with a small construction loan from a community based organization secured by your own pre-commitment to live and lease one o the units.
You can start by investigating programs and go in and talk to a few local CDCs. There are abuot 300 CDCs in the San Diego area the last time I checked. Heck, one of them might even be hiring on their own.
Yes.. it's hard to do.. but it is well worth doing if you have the time on your hands.
i don't know what you are talking about CDCs providing cash to fund projects. where i live the CDCs are the ones writing the grants, not doling out the cash.
similarly, $450-550/sq ft???!!! dear god, you are living in an alternate reality in california. we may be economically battered here in michigan, but at least we have a sense of reality.
La Jolla (92037), where the poster said that he was selling, was at a peak of $750-$1,000 per square feet pre-crisis. It is one of the three most expensive zip codes on the entire US. My friend just sold a development there for $650, closing out in November. My $450-550 is very conservative. Check Zilla if you don't believe me. The recession rule of thumb for San Diego is now $250 for inner city, $350 for prime suburban and Downtown, $450-$550 for La Jolla/Del Mar/parts of Rancho.
Remember, you're not aiming to achieve a windfall. You're targeting 15% and you'll probably hit $10%. Actual cashflow will be slightly better than that since, if you have the right team, 30-40% of the construction hard costs will be sweat equity.
Interesting concept. Willing to work long hours on competitions? 50.000 should be more than enough for me to start an own studio, hire 2 extra "interns" and do a full year of competitions with those four people.
Would that be slightly dodgy, or making use of ressources available?
Buy a job
I have been out of work for 13 months in the SF bay area. I am told I do not have recent experience. I do have some real- estate to sell in La Jolla and will sell it this year. That being said. I offer $50,000 for a one year paid internship to create more recent experience.
So basically you'd pay them to cover the costs of your "salary"?
I suppose this thread was inevitable.....
Do You Want An Internship? It'll Cost You
basically - yes - I am offering to cover the salary - at this point in the game, I consider it an investment. What do I offer? 4 years of Revit experience, 2 years architectural office experience - last position at SOM + $50K up front .
Thats craaazy! Have you thought of doing something else career wise? Cause that 50k can go a long way in getting a new degree in something more useful than arch right about now. Just my two cents.
Hmm, basically you want to a vassal to some arch firm just to gain some experience?!?
Actually I'm not sure there is a definition for what you want to do. This goes above and beyond working for free.
Guess it's true what they say about there always being a bigger idiot out there....
Actual exchange between a stararchitect i know and intern placement officer from a small oil-rich state
IPO - "Do you have any openings for interns this summer?"
Starchitect - "No, we don't have much work right now and don't need summer interns."
IPO - "Well, the government of small oil rich state is prepared to pay you $5,000 for each intern you take on."
Stararchitect - "I'll take 6."
These times are a lot like the 1930's depression era. I don't know - maybe I am too big of an idiot to get a job - that being said, many, and maybe they were idiots also during the great depression, paid FLW to work at Taliesin. Just a thought. perhaps I should get a degree in something else - then someday, I will look back with regret about " what I have might have been too" I would rather pay the 50K and keep going then just capitulate to circumstances.
you sir are the reason this profession rots from the inside. suck it up hemorrhoid, i am unemployed too, but if i have to, i'll work two jobs, in other fields.
b3ta should hire rverk.
good point. i am licensed and you can complete your idp, plus i need some reviting; like how to create wood framing models for walls...
grad school
b3tadine
There are way too many obstacles in this profession compared to other fields. I am tired of all the snarky attitudes and pretensions of "I am here and you never will be" type attitudes. What a labyrinth of obstacles - really? I teach friends how to do stuff in Revit, they get the job I applied to, and then once inside, they pull up the ladder and laugh in my face. I am just trying to level the field anyway I can and nobody wants to help out - it's just "go get a job in some other field and suck it up" Whats with all the resistance? the obstacles?
well, then there's one solution; quit. don't lower the bar, thereby making it more difficult for the next person to get a job. i can hear the hiring manager now; you know, i'd like to hire you, even at 40k, but there's this guy and others willing to pay me, for the opportunity to sit in that chair, and frankly, given these hard times, i'd rather not have the expenditures going to salary, when i can get free money.
"you sir are the reason this profession rots from the inside"
"Guess it's true what they say about there always being a bigger idiot out there"
???
Are u guys fucking brain-dead? YOU are the reason there are so many pretentious snots running around architecture. over-inflated, over complicated and as a result the man sticks it to you and you get underpayed. all wanna-be a big shots, no team playeres, let alone good designers. fake-ass bustahs.
rverk.ini has a good idea
I think rverk.ini is playing you
Thanks for the replies - that settles it - I will just go back to school- 50k buys another round. There are too many people ahead of me as it is. They are there and I am not - it's that simple.
F2B, when this economy wasn't in the tank people were paying architects to work for them, it's wrong then, and it's wrong now. there is nothing new here, but someone cutting off his nose to spite his/my face.
B3ta, I think this is a very interesting dynamic here.
When people were "paying to work" not to long ago, they were doing so by subsidizing their own personal expenses and not receiving compensation for basically staying alive and showing up to work.
What makes this different is that there really is nothing I can skim from employment law that hints that this would even be illegal.
This could fundamentally change the way an architecture school functions if employers were willing to take cash for students.
Well I prefer to believe that this is a joke, but if you are serious and you want to work for free, I would sign a contract for 1 year in which you cannot get fired and will be paid with the 50k that you invested up front. Or
I would get licensed and invest the money in my own business. Or
Go to school for 2 more years and get a health profession certification, nursing or such…and make pretty good money.
I just consider working for free for charities and help the ones in need.
Orochi
Thats' basically what I am getting at. It's a form of education via an employer really. I think Vinoly has some kind of internship/education program were you pay them - I might look into it also. I read a lot about Taliesin and how that model might work today with signifigant modification of course.
Taliesin was treated as a school at a time when working as an apprentice was the common route toward becoming an architect.
Just to be clear you are not asking us for our advice on this, correct? You are actually posting this to find someone interested in taking $50k from you in exchange for work experience?
If you're serious about it, this is not the sort of thing people come to archinect discussions looking for so I'm not sure it's the most effective place to advertise, local AIA office might be better.
But honestly for $50k why don't you just use that money look for a paid job outside of SF and move? Especially if you know Revit well many people are hiring for that.
And beyond that I'd have to agree you should look at other lines of work, I'd seriously... no joke... work fast food before I did that. It wouldn't take long to get into management with your abilities and be making as much as you would at any arch firm. There's nothing wrong with looking elsewhere, many of us have been.
I think you can find a job for $50k but I think you're going to find a company who needs the money and will not value you or your time and will dump you at the end of the year and you'll probably have just as much trouble finding a job then and be out the $50k. Shit for $50k you should invest in development or start you or company, develop an iPhone app that all architects need, or a web based Ruby on Rails app, ANYTHING.
so, the point being? what is an education worth, if we have to pay for both the degree and the job?? there is nothing remotely sane in this proposition, ever. what this does prove is this; those that have, can pay, those that don't go on food stamps.
welcome to the free market.
bring on Karl.
FTW!
interpret that, how ever you see fit.
SF is not a good place to be an Architect unless you're networked in with the rich.
this is an asinine idea
so when you go to interviews after this paid internship expires and they find out you paid someone FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS to WORK for NOTHING, you'll get laughed right out of the conference room.
i call troll, anyways
why don't you design and build some sort of megalomaniacal-and or social welfare structure?
50 large ones isn not a large sum for architecture but its not much less than what PS1 offers...
...You could pull some Columbia grad moves, and throw down on a laser cutter/cnc router and hire some unpaid interns to design bull-shit parametric fantasies which you can show off with a self funded publication.
...Or purchase a broke ass down structure...think design, refurbish...possibly sell for money or give to a family in need.
Or cut the house purchased above in half like Gordon Matta Clark did. (i do not condone copying...just an idea)
"4 years of Revit experience, 2 years architectural office experience".
seriously? and you can't think, design, and build on your own...you want to pay to be a sheep.
This is Capitalism, where if you work hard and get your college degree, you get to work at Home Depot for minimum wage while people with money or connections take the better jobs.
Don't blame rverk, this problem is the profession's own making, it's what they want. When every "entry level" job out there requires 2-5 years prior experience. You have a bachelors degree? In architectural studies? That's nice, but I'd rather hire someone that's worked in a firm for 4 years than someone that's spent 4 years drawing pretty pictures.
Met with a university adviser today, told me I would have to spend $4,000 out of pocket before I could be considered for grad school.
Fuck working hard, trying to be the best person you can be, nobody cares if you don't have the $$ to back it up.
agree w/ tk.arch--If you're actually willing to do this pay for working thing, then you're a tool, and you need to radically change your thought process. going back to school won't do it. you'll just end up taking a bunch more wonky classes, and at best, come out knowing revit better (not good). go to central america; build some kind of shrine. some jersey devil shit.
rverk, I feel bad for you, that you cannot get a job. But honestly you should take that money and invest it in more education, so years from now, when things start to get better, you don't have to have that awkward conversation with a potential employer. Instead they will say, "look at all the letters rverk has behind their name".
Good luck.
how about heading to Africa or south America or even Sri Lanka with a group like architecture for humanity, use your money to fund volunteering building some schools or community centres.
I'm sure most employers would view that as great relevant experience + i shows varying construction /life experience.
WonderK the "letters behind your name" are pretty well meaningless, unless you're a registered architect, then you can start at the bottom at some firm.
Experience is what counts, I don't care if you have an M. Arch, if you've never worked in a firm, only the most mediocre firms will consider hiring you, if that.
What do you think school sponsored internships are? Paying for experience!
I would recommend that you go back to school with a good internship program (if there are any), then you can pay for your experience and those letters behind your name at the same time.
Or go to some Ivy League school, do they have problems getting experience?
Volunteer for Habitat for Humanity for a year, if you can't live off 50k for a year there's something wrong with you, I've lived (barely, but still) off 15k a year.
Milwaukee, the letters behind my name, specifically the ones indicating my Master's degree, are what got me my job. Which is what's funding the many additional letters.
Also I had school-sponsored internships all through undergrad, and every single one of them was paid. Fortunately I went to a school that instilled in me a sense of worth such that I never even considered taking an unpaid internship.
Now the suggestion to return to school is not going to work if all you guys are limiting your field of vision to "all architecture, only architecture"-types of Master's degrees, in which case, don't bother, save your money, and do the Architecture for Humanity volunteering thing. They would love your help! There's just no market for architects, in school or in the field, at this time.
Volunteering makes sense,s/he doesn't even have to go to Africa,there must be some projects in New Orleans. Also I think rverk should still be able to find unpaid internships without "paying to work"! This is unheard of. I would spend that money on either travelling and volunteering(first choice) or getting a masters degree in another field,doesn't have to be medical field..People keep telling me to go become a nurse,I HATE it!
Also,I know it is easier to say than doing it but you can consider moving to another country temporarily and work there? I'm sure it would be a much cheaper option and most countries accept US citizens without a hassle.
Also I found this: http://blogs.wsj.com/juggle/2009/01/28/should-you-pay-for-your-kids-job-internship/
There is this company called University of Dreams and they set you up with an internship for about $5,000 to $9,500 but it doesn't only cover the internship, it covers the housing,meals,transportation etc. From what I read on the comments some of the folks even got a trip to Las Vegas. You can check it out as a last resort,it is better than paying 50,000$ but the internship is only for a couple of weeks.
i'll overlook the professional ethics issues as best i can, and go on to say, i think this is a great idea, but you need to be deliberate about how you do this. most medium to large firms will not take this offer seriously. they have their own concerns in this economy and $50k will not even touch their problems (it's unlikely that most firms of this size will do anything unconventional anyway.) you need to find a 1-5 person office to take you up on this offer. an office of this size needs the cash. showing this type of commitment to a firm is in some ways closer to buying in rather than buying an internship. if you lived in detroit, i would take you up on the offer and consider you a financing partner despite your lack of experience. (ultimately you will still need to prove your worth as a contributor to the office.) good luck. with the right taker, i think the idea's got some legs.
...despite the fact that lots and lots of the architectural firms, don't have much of recent experience for the last couple of years either.
I think it is an interesting idea also. This is certainly not why this profession has declined so rapidly. Just look at all the stararchitects that had resources to build/design for their families, thereby catapulting themselves to the top. I see this as no different - you have resources and you want to use them to help your career.
Personally, I'd go get an MBA to diversify your experience and make you more desirable (to the architecture world).
The other thing is the future of the economy. Many are concerned we'll be hitting the double dip down soon. If that happens, you'll really, really want the money for living.
There will be a glut of architects out there for many, many years to come (considering the massive number of unemployed and new grads that are adding up). Even if you get experience, there is no promise of a job at the end (same goes for grad school, which I can't see helping tremendously).
Interesting proposition, though. I think jafidler's comment about being very deliberate is crucial if you do choose to pursue this. I'd also start lower, $50k is a lot of money to anyone. I'd offer to work for free, first and work up from there. Free is pretty good with your Revit experience, just make it clear that you are there to learn.
Good luck.
Oh, lastly, checkout some developers. Most are as bad off as architects (those that are still alive). Find a big one that is used to having an architect or two on staff and you might be able to get some good experience in the business/dev world. They are used to paying more and would probably drool at a 'for free' employee.
i think rverk is gone, but i'll say what i've said elsewhere: recent experience can be what you want it to be. start a studio called 'rverk associates', print some cards, and start doing competitions and home entertainment racks for friends. as long as you're thinking about architecture and using your skills, it doesn't matter if you're in a firm.
...and you can maybe wrap these new projects into your portfolio. since you've got the luxury of time, they should be GREAT!
trace,
I think he is already offering to work for free, since the $50K would be used to pay his salary. rverk gives them $50K, and they give it back as salary over the course of the year. so the net to rverk is $0.
agree with the other comments that this should first be approached as investing in a firm from an equity or financing partner position.
this is genuinely the most inspiringly ludicrous thing i've seen on archinect yet...
rverk - i'll take your intentions at face value. so, the question as I see it is that you feel like you can't get a job right now because you lack 'recent experience'. not knowing who you've interviewed with, my opinion is that what you're being told is the 'polite' form of blowoff.
regardless, if you're trying to create some leverage for yourself, in terms of getting future work opportunities, i'd suggest investing in something that has greater value long term. prostrating to a firm right now won't do a whole lot. if need be, work for free for just any old firm. if you want to work for a peter zumthor, then throw the money at him. but to work at the equivalent of som? free would be enough, even for the smaller firms.
personally, i'd think about a couple of other options - you could create, prototype, and fully do a few pieces of furniture with that. spend some of the money wooing the right people in that industry, and see if you can get them into production. why does that matter? you'd potentially show an employer an alternative revenue stream for them (a huge plus these days).
you could also offer to work with non-profits, doing work you're qualified for (maybe planning, predesign, etc). again, if it's something that leads to 'real' work, any owner is going to be impressed. you'd also probably be given a chance to run the project.
point is this: do something that shows an employer an entrepreneurial drive and a sense of self initiative. that'll pay bigger dividends long term than paying someone like som to take you on for a year of bathroom details.
Jeezaloo the idiocy seems to be contagious in our field.
Despite you must be a troll...
What about this deal?
I sell you my position for one year. You pay me $50k and you get my job and my salary (and even my salary that's slighlty higher than those 50,000 bucks) :)
Both of us win!... I have plenty of free time I can use for something else and I get $50k :P
Look.. it seems like you have some equity as well as good skills and eperience as a SOM building designer. Why don't you finance and execute your own residential develop/design/build, perhaps by partnering up with a couple of other entrepreneurs - engineer, contractor, etc, all of who are probably in the same boat as you are? This way you'd get the experience, the returns (since you'd be your own developer), and the bragging rights to having done something reall cool. If you opted to do something sustainable and affordable, you'd also probably qualify for various tax credits and subsidies as well as could apply for grants from CDCs and other community-based not-for-profits.
Given how desperate things are in Californian inner city and urban real estate markets, there should be plenty of very good sites and gut rehabable or trashed-foreclosure buildings you could short sale into for the amount of equity you could pull out of your home sale in La Jolla. Think of it as financial arbitrage, doing good and an experience-getter-all rolled into one. And if it works out, we'll all want to work for you.
Heck.. I'm considering doing that and I have a real job.
That is MUCH MUCH MUCH easier said than done. Even if you have a net worth of millions and sign it all on the line, you'll be really hard pressed to find a bank that'll finance new res development now. That, and you'll still have to have at least 50% presold before they'll consider you.
If you know someone with a TON of money, go for it, but if not that would be incredibly difficult in this market.
You'd need at least 25-30% of the construction costs in cash, about 50% of any land costs in cash (outside of the networth requirements).
Just an FYI, it isn't a walk in the park and requires large resources to even start something like that. In this market, it also takes a lot of prayers.
trace, I wasn't thinking about a big project.. or even market rate for that matter. Even in San Diego you could short- or bank-sale your way into a small but as-of-right-subdividable inner city house at $100 a square feet including the price of the land (actually, that's virtually all going to be land price), which would require $120 in improvements in a gut rehab. Break the 2000-3000 sq ft into 2 or 3 units. New, good, architecturally-interesting construction in the poorest neighborhoods in your area go for about $250/sq ft in today's climate.
The average home in La Jolla (which your selling out of) sells for $450-550/sq ft, based current sales.
Assuming you don't have a big mortgage on the La Jolla property you're selilng, I'm wagering you could do this with your equity, perhaps with a small construction loan from a community based organization secured by your own pre-commitment to live and lease one o the units.
You can start by investigating programs and go in and talk to a few local CDCs. There are abuot 300 CDCs in the San Diego area the last time I checked. Heck, one of them might even be hiring on their own.
Yes.. it's hard to do.. but it is well worth doing if you have the time on your hands.
i don't know what you are talking about CDCs providing cash to fund projects. where i live the CDCs are the ones writing the grants, not doling out the cash.
similarly, $450-550/sq ft???!!! dear god, you are living in an alternate reality in california. we may be economically battered here in michigan, but at least we have a sense of reality.
sorry to derail, but i couldn't let that slide.
bid on a job...
CDCs administer various municipal programs in SD.
La Jolla (92037), where the poster said that he was selling, was at a peak of $750-$1,000 per square feet pre-crisis. It is one of the three most expensive zip codes on the entire US. My friend just sold a development there for $650, closing out in November. My $450-550 is very conservative. Check Zilla if you don't believe me. The recession rule of thumb for San Diego is now $250 for inner city, $350 for prime suburban and Downtown, $450-$550 for La Jolla/Del Mar/parts of Rancho.
Remember, you're not aiming to achieve a windfall. You're targeting 15% and you'll probably hit $10%. Actual cashflow will be slightly better than that since, if you have the right team, 30-40% of the construction hard costs will be sweat equity.
Jaf,
Current sale home prices per square foot, based on actual sales
La Jolla
http://www.zillow.com/homes/comps/2134118855_zpid/
averaging $450-$600 (looks like my $550 was low, there's one outlyer below $400, at $350, and a bunch much higher than $750)
City Heights (inner city(
http://www.zillow.com/homes/comps/16957409_zpid/
averaging about $250
Interesting concept. Willing to work long hours on competitions? 50.000 should be more than enough for me to start an own studio, hire 2 extra "interns" and do a full year of competitions with those four people.
Would that be slightly dodgy, or making use of ressources available?
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