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Dubai's Thyssen Krupp competition...discussion and results

nils

Hi, since we just finished and sent our proposal for the signal Dubai tower competition, was wondering if any of archinect's readers took part in it besides us. With 2500+ registrants, it should be :).

I'll try to post some pics of our work after jury has stated.

Nils
Playtime Architects
Lyon, France

 
Jan 30, 09 2:31 pm
shtu4ka

Hello Nils :) I took part in that competition :)
I would like to come to Dubai to see other works.... I hope there`ll be some exposition? How do you think?

Apr 27, 09 2:20 pm
nils

Hello,
I have no intention of going there, unless invited ( meaning we'd win a prize somehow :) ).
Lets hope they build a decent website after the jury so everyone can see other's work...

Nils

Apr 28, 09 3:18 am
shtu4ka

Why not? Isn`t it interesting for you to come to Dubai having such an occasion? Have you ever been there? I think it is a very interesting city to see...

Apr 28, 09 6:15 am
nils

Because i am running a business with loads of work !
We do so many competitions that if we go to each place after we finish them we'd be on vacation all year long!
:)
N

Apr 28, 09 8:53 am
shtu4ka

really? It is very ineresting... which other competitions you took part at? is there some pictures to show?

Apr 28, 09 9:58 am
shtu4ka

really? It is very interesting... which other competitions you took part at? is there some pictures to show?

Apr 28, 09 9:58 am
shtu4ka

really? It is very interesting... which other competitions you took part at? is there some pictures to show?

Apr 28, 09 9:58 am
form1

Is that Nils from the Stockholm competition? I'd like to see your entry to this one -

May 6, 09 1:49 pm

the result is out, and the winner is -



All I have to say is - what the fuck is that?!
Full results here. Dubai Thyssen Krup Elevator Architecture

May 6, 09 2:13 pm
form1

I rather like the Mirage scheme. The others seem to be on the level of fantasy, which is really strange considering that the winner was supposedly intended for construction.

May 6, 09 3:04 pm
theids

YEah....What is that? How do the people get up there??

May 7, 09 12:41 am
blah

Elevator? Duh! ;-) It's Thyssen Krupp, right?

I kind of like the framed view. It's simple.It twists to take the lateral loads. That makes sense.

I am not sure that the span works without curving it. I think it will deflect. It will attempt to become a catenary or latin for chain. Hmmmm...

May 7, 09 1:22 am
form1

I wouldn't put much stock in the constructability of any of the schemes other than Mirage(at least in their award winning forms). Both of the framed schemes are way too slender to work - remember, these things are 150 meters high! The span on the first place scheme is over 100 meters in a very shallow simple span. I don't know of too many (or any) structures that achieve that, much less with occupiable space. The ring scheme may avoid some lateral loads by spinning, but it would nonetheless be an outrageous cantilever, and would still face severe overturning which would be a big problem for the rotating joint to handle. The big beam is way out of scale for a lighter than air structure. Recall how much occupiable space the Hindenburg was able to accomodate. The flying colors - well, I'm not sure what that is, so I guess I'd have to pass on saying you can't build it, so I'll give it a maybe.

Overall, I'm a bit disappointed. I think I've lost the sense that better architecture comes out of competitions than the typical development process. No sense in getting too upset though - I'll just hope that things turn out ok if they ever build it.

May 7, 09 1:46 am
form1

link to the st louis arch wikipedia entry - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway_Arch

That arch was only around 90 meters high, had a much stouter base, and had the advantage of strength of form.

May 7, 09 1:53 am
form1

oop - I made an error. Overall height is 192 meters. Still, I think the dimensions of its legs are more realistic than the 6 or 7 meters that the framed schemes seem to show.

May 7, 09 1:59 am
hillandrock

Assuming people not being having access to any part of the inside or rooftop, I'd assume it was workable. Otherwise, I don't got no architecture knowledge that would say it could work like the Gateway Arch.

But moreso, if that's what the framing will look like from the vantage point... my god that's awful. Like... really bad. It's like a mugshot that cuts the face off in the middle of the forehead? (I don't know how to phrase this any better).

And what does the arch frame from those buildings in the distance? Does it frame the work camps? Because... well... that would be genius.

May 7, 09 2:14 am
nils

Form1,
yes its me
another lost one :)

Basically we did architecture when most of the projects are just a concept / shape almost unbuildable.
Another lesson learned: next time spend 5 hours drawing a shape, 5 more hours in pshop and hit render and print.

Nils

May 7, 09 5:42 am
nils

another remark: most winning projects are from spain, most jury members too.....

May 7, 09 5:42 am
nils

btw where can we see all projects?
N

May 7, 09 5:45 am
nils
http://www.lofta.com/dotclear/index.php?2009/05/07/85-concours-dubai-une-tour-embleme-pour-dubai

here is our project...done in a huge rush grrr
n.

May 7, 09 6:36 am
form1

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work like the gateway arch, though the arch does seem to give a good feel for what it would take to make the legs. The open span is what seems particularly impossible to me, especially as thin as it is.

I like the scheme nils - simple and powerful. I'm torn on wanting an opening of some kind. On the one hand, it could be cool to have a giant operable occulus of some kind, on the other it might detract from the "wallness" of the tower.

I've posted mine up on my LinkedIn page - http://www.linkedin.com/in/lawrencedoyle
. You can find it on the boxnet section.

May 7, 09 9:54 am
form1

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work like the gateway arch, though the arch does seem to give a good feel for what it would take to make the legs. The open span is what seems particularly impossible to me, especially as thin as it is.

I like the scheme nils - simple and powerful. I'm torn on wanting an opening of some kind. On the one hand, it could be cool to have a giant operable occulus of some kind, on the other it might detract from the "wallness" of the tower.

I've posted mine up on my LinkedIn page - http://www.linkedin.com/in/lawrencedoyle
. You can find it on the boxnet section.

May 7, 09 9:54 am
form1

scratch that - the boxnet thing seems to be crap.

May 7, 09 10:04 am
nils

i like the mirage best, the 3D is not convincing, but the night views are just perfect...

did not get to see your project ( could not find the link)
N

May 7, 09 10:35 am
nils

btw: how do you fit an elevator in the ring??
lol

this is just crap grrr
N

May 7, 09 10:39 am
form1

The linkedin site is somewhat convoluted, for reasons unkown to me. If you want to see my entry, go to the link above, click on "view full profile" in yellow to the right, right-click on "dubai tower" under Lawrence Doyle's files, select "get web link", and then "open".

I would suppose that the ring scheme didn't have an upper level cafe, which is the same conclusion I came to. For goodness sake, there are certainly plenty of towers in Dubai much taller than this project. Go climb one of them.

May 7, 09 1:17 pm
fulcrum

wow, they are giving away money for that? They must have a lot of spare change. The building will frame the global recession/depression forever, with all the unfinished towers and empty buildings in it, eh? (IF they can fund to build it)
I haven't seen form 1's yet, but nils, your entry is way better than all the winners.
I do enter competitions, but you don't really know what they are looking for until it's over.

May 7, 09 5:55 pm
form1

I also have to say I liked Nils' renderings a lot -

May 7, 09 6:20 pm
redent

Sorry...

Prefiero expresarme en español para poder explicarme mejor. Es una broma...?
Me parece una auténtica tomadura de pelo y falta de respeto al resto de los concursantes que el jurado pretenda valorar este tipo de propuestas por su simplicidad, sencillez,... realmente se ha de valorar como ganador, por mucho que sea una concurso de ideas, una propuesta en la que ni siquiera hay un pequeño esquema estructural, cuando la idea del concurso es Estructura Emblemática?
Que tiene esto de historia del pueblo de Dubai? Lo ponemos en New York y explica lo mismo...

De vergüenza!!! No es un concurso serio!!!

May 7, 09 7:09 pm
form1

Well, Redent, try not to let it eat at you. I agree, it doesn't seem too serious, but that's their issue to deal with now. If the thing eventually turns out great, I can enjoy it. If it turns out awful, I can't see it from my house.

May 8, 09 12:41 am
wsarch

img]http://www.image.com/image.jpg[/img

May 8, 09 2:18 pm
form1

Still stewing on Nils's project - If I was to put an opening in it, I might have liked a vertical slot, something like an arrow slit with tapered sides only much bigger. MAYBE that would have not interfered with the purity of the wall, but would have also provided another level of interaction. The tapered side would have been towards the park, so that as you moved you could get a changing view through the slot, though strongly edited by the wall. Also, the shadow effect would have been pretty cool.

Just an idea, since I threw it out there before.

May 8, 09 2:33 pm
form1

mwsarch - I couldn't make that link work. can you try again?

May 8, 09 2:56 pm
wsarch

how can I post an image?

May 8, 09 3:26 pm
wsarch

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3335/3513059129_c4bd00106b.jpg?v=0

May 8, 09 4:08 pm
form1

Okay - I posted a low grade jpg to my myarchn profile. It's not too great, but its what I can do right now

http://www.myarchn.com/profile/form1

May 8, 09 5:06 pm
wsarch


I like the winner project, I think it is very ellegant and conceptual, but I don't think it is very unique.

This is a sculpture that was built more that ten years ago and you find it once you leave Bogota's airport and drive towards the city. The artist concept (Carlos Rojas-abstract artist) is to provide a frame for the city and the mountains beyond.

I respect the jury's decision, but in my mind both projects are exactly the same. Just because it is bigger it doesn't make it different.
Most of the teams were trying to come up with something really different and unique, and you can see a lot of work and creativity in some of those proposals.

This just makes me think if architecture is still a creative discipline or it has become more a task of re-interpretation

May 8, 09 8:03 pm
form1

Just a bit of trivia I didn't know - Fernando Donis is actually an associate at OMA, and has done a good bit of work in Dubai already.

May 9, 09 10:41 am
ticato

It is in our hands to stop this nonsense! This year edition of thyssenkrupp award was described as a huge success.
We should leave a clear statement to thyssenkrupp award organization and others that we appreciate the opportunity that is given to all of us, but our work should be respected and compared following the brief competition requirements available to all.
Otherwise, in some years architecture competitions will be insanely useless and a huge time/money black hole.
Because we care about this, and the world needs REAL ARCHITECTURE, we should leave a clear statement. If we don't participate in the next editions there will be a clear message, I think.

Jorge Luis Borges had this sentence;
Reality doesn't have the minimum obligation to be interesting but fiction does.

If we consider the winning proposal as being on a fictional context (due to its clear unfeasibility)
we have to consider that it is not very interesting.

I think we should create a public gallery were we can post our fictional and interesting version of the winning proposal.

Even if you don't have hands!!!! You will be able to do better renders using only your feet!!!

May 9, 09 6:09 pm
cll123

Bios Design Collective has just posted an entry they collaborated on. Submitted by Thom Faulders of Faulders Studio. www.biosarch.com

May 9, 09 7:00 pm
form1

No person forming part of the Promoter Groups, Jury, Coordinators, their members, collaborators, colleagues
or employees or close relatives may enter the competition, nor may they make any professional contact
with any participants in the Competition phase.

May 11, 09 12:27 am
form1

No person forming part of the Promoter Groups, Jury, Coordinators, their members, collaborators, colleagues
or employees or close relatives may enter the competition, nor may they make any professional contact
with any participants in the Competition phase.

May 11, 09 12:27 am
evilplatypus

nils those colors and tones are great

May 11, 09 12:33 am
nils

aww thnx guys :)
actually the goal was:
1. get rid of reflectiveness that is mandatory in today's buildings...hence the use of an adobe wall ( the first nickname of the project was adobai hehe)..adobe : local colors and integration. First sketches was more like a huge babylon like tower with very very few openings. That main idea ( mass building) was kept in the structure despite the thinness, and is also kept in all materials that is mostly cyclopean stones.
The main target is also to try ( that is also true in other work we try to achieve) to get back to simple shapes, that are not computer generated, by created by men. ( hypeness of nurbs, meshes and other 3d grids will pass as soon as they are overseen / overused and show their lack of spatial/architectural continuum.

2. get rid of transparency in order to provide shelter, and get a hand on the mass plan / google view instead of skyline (overrated view).

3. provide a second hand view, with the screen / darkroom like system on the shadow side. Daytime: huge shadow on the garden ( who is using this garden at noon today???), white screen with focused views of the surroundings using simple optic solution. Night view: digitally enhanced view of the skyline / dubai highlight.


Form1: saw your entry: pretty similar idea ( mass building), like the hand drawing, lacking a bit of nicely lit 3D renders / colors..what is missing from the rendering is what they wanted to see: a glorification of the urbanistic choices they have done over the last decade ( the skyline).

Nils

May 11, 09 3:24 am

nice renders nils. nice concept too.

you shouldn't take it personally though. no one here should.


May 11, 09 3:42 am
nils

lol ok ;), will try to forget, once again...

http://tiny.cc/Nm9cO

PDF of our 5 panels can be seen here (2.5 mb) ( with explanatory texts)

May 11, 09 4:07 am
fulcrum

that's pretty sweet, nils.

May 11, 09 7:11 am
nils

yes well tried to come up with something even sleeker but lacked time and the computer doing the render was an old machine that took too much time to experiment...next one will be more achieved.
thnx :)
N

May 11, 09 10:03 am

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