A requirement to be eligible to participate in Disaster relief ie Honeybee Insurance is too ALREADY HAVE crop and or livestock insurance. Also, not all plants are pollinated by bees. Some like maize you call it corn are not. in other cases native bee populations have disappeared.
martin+1, I hear you on alot of your points... What we need in the stimulus is to get the money working fastest... How do you get the most multiplier effect in your stimulus to get money flowing the fastest.
But IMHO the point of the stimulus is not just to inject money into the system, it is also to create jobs, and produce real useful and needed production that puts money to work.
Tax cuts may help, but they don't do enough, we've tried this already... Tax cuts alone don't create jobs and they don't ensure that the money is being put to work to support industries that employ people. The problem is that credit is not flowing, and consumer confidence is down. If you give people an $8000 tax cut, they are not going to go out and renovate their bathroom or buy a large flat screen tv if they have just been laid off and are barely paying their bills and making their housing payments... They will put it into savings or pay down debt, but that does not mean that this money will be made available by the already struggling banks and financial institutions to companies and individuals, because the banks are beaten up...
Even the impact of the increased consumer spending from a $8000 tax break would not mean that companies are going to start hiring again. Consumer confidence is down, and companies are looking to control costs and reduce risk based on future expectations, they won't jump in and start creating jobs again just because of a tax cut... The problem is also that credit for companies is tight, businesses need access to credit to employ people or to put money to work. The scary thing is that the effects of all of the recent job losses haven't yet hit the economy, this will get much worse if we don't create jobs.
The credit market needs to be fixed, credit needs to flow, but regulation needs to be put in place to prevent this housing / investment bubble cycle from recurring...
Crowbert, this is what I've been saying the whole time and most of these people don't get.
We're being made to suffer for someone else's fuck up. Whether it's from the piss-poor management of the firm, whether it's from the government, or from the actions of selfish wall street criminals -- it's not our fault. And anyone saying that we "should" blame ourselves in some way are just blind and need to never speak again.
All someone has to do is tell me why a prominent Chicago firm was working people to death until midnight every night and then axed 1/3 of their entire staff the next day. Everyone I talked to there were busy and trying to meet all kinds of crazy deadlines sacrificing their lives practically and then just like that everyone was cut like it was some kind of game. And it's not just that firm but a bunch of other firms as well that pulled the same kind of kidney blow tactics. Yes it's really ALL the employees fault -- especially those rotten and no good interns!
archmed...while i can appreciate some of your sentiments and share in some of your anger, I tend to think its larger than absent governement regulation and greedy wall street swindlers.
In was the inevitable outcome of a consumption based economy. faster, cheaper, and more of it mentality could not sustain itself forever. While none of us was personally "at fault", we've all been contributing to it for as long as we've been alive.
My only hope is that some good comes out of it. A shift of values.
"am not into fox, cnn, abc, nbc, or cbs. make my own decisions. fox is running away with the ratings so they must either be doing something right or spot on with their coverage."
Father Coughlin had a pretty big following in the 1930s too.
Fox just lost a bundle of money. They are the right-wing station where everything goes through filter of stupidity. The other stations don't have as big a bias. They let Bush ruin the country.
We're talking about an $800 billion stimulus when we have a $2.9 trillion hole.
Holy Living Mother of Shit - that's more than half of the U.S. GDP for 2008. You can imagine though, if this isn't some epic conspiracy that is, that almost $10 trillion in just imagined capital still isn't enough to save the economy, what is?
revaluation sure....but I was talking more about a broader cultural shift. less focus on the numbers themselves and more on what the numbers mean.
encouragement of something beyond a "profits trump all as fast as we can" mindstate. more value and appreciation of "things" that people create and less value in gaming the system.
creating complex derivatives that skim micro percentages off billions of mortgages and the like are done. So what now?
Its a closed system. John Q. Public is too fucking broke and scared to risk putting any (big) money back in. So let them trade worthless bank stock amongst themselves for awhile. Sure taxpayer money will be used to fill in some gaping holes and line some pockets. That won't last forever, and our "captains of industry" will have to find a new game.
Maybe at that point they will find the game thats never truely been tested. The game of quality and longevity.
: "We're being made to suffer for someone else's fuck up. Whether it's from the piss-poor management of the firm, whether it's from the government, or from the actions of selfish wall street criminals -- it's not our fault."
Come on, Archmed - grow up a littlle. What's the point of this whiney, 'I'm an innocent victim' crap?
At the end of the day, we each have to stand on our own two feet. You can't go through life blaming everybody else for every little bump in the road.
Grow a pair and take at least a little responsibility for your own miserable life!
"Grow a pair and take at least a little responsibility for your own miserable life! "
that's hilarious. Seriously Archmed it aint that bad.
My dinner tonight consists of a $9 six pack of kronenbourg and $1.29 can of chef borardee meat tortellini. If things get really bad I can always cut back on the tortellini.
take that unemployment check and buy a case each: tortellini, ravioli, tuna, campbells chunky soup, chili, etc. and supplement with some fresh veggies. that should last you a couple months and reduce your daily food cost to $5 a day or less.
pay only select bills: credit cards, rent/mortgage, utilites, car payment, health insurance, car insurance...in that order.
anything left over is spread equally between beer, chinese equities, the roulette table, or anything else that helps get you through.
read the stimulus bill and extract something stimulating...
one of my investment buddies tells me to put everything i have into gold. not stock or an etf. real gold bullion! swears the bill will do nothing except devalue the dollar. since gold is priced in dollars it will require more dollars to buy gold.
snippets:
$25M cash to be distributed to each Filipino ww2 veteran living in america. can't be too many left. empty gesture by a senator from hawaii.
$150M for golf carts and other ngv for various government agencies.
funds for a national coordinator of health information technology, with associated bureaucracy.
not all is so bad. from a news report today that notes some of the benefits of the bill. "the latest version contains $2 billion for a clean-coal power plant with specifications matching one in Mattoon, Ill., $10 million for urban canals, $2 billion for manufacturing advanced batteries for hybrid cars, and $255 million for a polar icebreaker and other "priority procurements" by the Coast Guard." icebreakers are awesome! and, 'urban canals" pique my interest.
there is very little anyone here can do about the economy except rant. times of crisis are times of opportunity. we can either give in to whatever fate holds for us or challenge ourselves to the fullest. if we open our minds and venture outside of our little boxes we can embrace new possibilities of professional, personal and, possibly, financial growth.
other stations? less bias? a reference to npr?
"Father Coughlin had a pretty big following in the 1930s too." as did lenin, mao, and castro. demagogues of any stripe eventually find themselves in the dustbin of history.
martin+1: you have a point that we ought to hold the government accountable for where the stimulus money is going, make sure that the money isn't going to useless and ineffective projects...
But you are only pointing out the "soundbite" questionable projects in the stimulus (which is important) but is a mischaracterisation of what the stimulus is intended to do.
More broadly, by general categories, this is a general breakdown of what was originally proposed in the house:
Energy:
$32 billion: Funding for "smart electricity grid" to reduce waste
$16 billion: Renewable energy tax cuts and a tax credit for research and development on energy-related work, and a multiyear extension of renewable energy production tax credit
$6 billion: Funding to weatherize modest-income homes
Science and Technology:
$10 billion: Science facilities.
$6 billion: High-speed Internet access for rural and underserved areas.
Infrastructure:
$30 billion: Transportation projects
$31 billion: Construction and repair of federal buildings and other public infrastructure
$19 billion: Water projects
$10 billion: Rail and mass transit projects
Education:
$41 billion: Grants to local school districts
$79 billion: State fiscal relief to prevent cuts in state aid
$21 billion: School modernization ($15.6 billion to increase the Pell grant by $500; $6 billion for higher education modernization)
Health Care:
$39 billion: Subsidies to health insurance for unemployed; providing coverage through Medicaid
$87 billion: Help to states with Medicaid
$20 billion: Modernization of health-information technology systems
$4.1 billion: Preventative care
Jobless Benefits:
$43 billion for increased unemployment benefits and job training.
$39 billion to support those who lose their jobs by helping them to pay the cost of keeping their employer provided healthcare under COBRA and providing short-term options to be covered by Medicaid.
$20 billion to increase the food stamp benefit by over 13% in order to help defray rising food costs.
*****
Percentage Breakdown:
1. Infrastructure - Rebuilding our highways, bridges, schools, etc. alongside creating more renewable energy (39% of total)
2. State Relief - Helping the states with unemployment benefits, budget shortfalls, medicaid, and the like (13% of total)
3. Struggling Citizens - Increase food stamps, unemployment insurance coverage, and provide insurance for the jobless (12% of total)
4. Tax Cuts - Tax cuts to individuals and business (36% of total)
*****
Another version of the breakdown:
Construction projects: $90 billion. Fund the rebuilding of crumbling roads and bridges, build clean water and flood control mechanisms and provide funding for mass transit systems.
Education: $142 billion. Rebuild thousands of schools by modernizing classrooms, labs and libraries. The plan would also increase funding for Pell Grants.
Renewable energy: $54 billion. Double production of alternative energy in the next three years. Weatherize low-income homes, modernize 75% of federal buildings and update the nation’s electrical grid with a new, cost-efficient “smart” grid.
Medicaid: $87 billion. Increase Federal Medicaid Assistance Percentage so states do not have to cut eligibility for Medicaid due to budget shortfalls.
Unemployment benefits: $43 billion. Extend through December 2009 emergency unemployment insurance assistance to states. Increase weekly unemployment benefits by $25, and provide incentives for states to expand unemployment coverage.
Middle-class tax cut: $145 billion. Tax cut amounting to $500 a year for individuals and $1,000 for couples. The full credit would be limited to those making $75,000 or less ($150,000 or less for workers filing joint returns).
Tax cuts for companies suffering losses: $17 billion over 10 years. Obama would temporarily broaden the “net-operating loss carryback” to five years, up from two years currently. The provision would let companies apply their 2008 and 2009 losses to past and future tax bills so they can get money back on taxes they’ve already paid or would otherwise have to pay.
I'm surprised that the media is not covering the broad breakdown of the stimulus, instead looking for "soundbites" to drum up some kind of partisan emotions...
Why doesn't Fox News or MSNBC or CNN or any of the mainstream news media articulate very clearly this kind of breakdown... They're just squabbling to play political games... Their websites should really have charts, broad categories and figures in graphic representation on their websites... We don't need talking heads to tell us what people are thinking, why doesn't the media let people think for themselves... Post the breakdown on their front page for people to see, and let people speak out for themselves regarding the stimulus rather than describing generalized totals numbers... Sorry to rant, but I'm sick and tired of the ideological BS spewed by both the right and the left, for f*cks sake show us some meat not more hot wind and talking heads...
IMHO there's a psychological economic benefit to telling consumers and workers or those unemployed where money is going to build confidence and support.... If I were the Obama administration, I would post this for all to see. If there are controversial items, then so be it, the good the bad, this is taxpayer money so full transparency is what will give the thing support and hopefully weed out the waste. Let people see for themselves what they are buying, so that they are not hearing everything second or third hand...
The Obama Administration is putting the entire stimulus plan on the web... Taxpayers will be able to track the distribution of the stimulus money online as it happens...
"one of my investment buddies tells me to put everything i have into gold. not stock or an etf. real gold bullion! swears the bill will do nothing except devalue the dollar. since gold is priced in dollars it will require more dollars to buy gold."
The thing with investment buddies is they are as wrong as everyone else...look at the past year. I had a financial "genius" tell me the EURO would fail in 10 years back when it was begun in the late 90's...and look where we are now.
Almost all of your judgement and rhetoric is based on hearsay and personal opinion...about as informative as Per.
I suppose a few good things have come out of this... even though the list is obviously endless for the bad, there are a things we've been wanting or designing for and yet couldn't figure out how to make it happen until the economy crashes- getting people to drive less and walk/bike/use transit more, less fatalities from car crashes because less cars on the road, less rfp's for shopping malls and asphalt miles of parking lots for said malls, sticking it to OPEC, more people going veggie (meat is too expensive), more people applying to grad school and seeing what else is out there, thrift store/craigslist shopping, starbucks stores failing and more people grinding at home, people actually saving money in a savings account...
I don't know...IMO it seems pretty awful- but there are some good things that have come from this
chupacabra, I'm not sure I'd put everything in gold, but it is an inflation hedge, so it never hurts to have some coins stashed away. Also, gold will never go to zero, like many stocks have.
The problem with the "stimulus" is that it's money we don't have. Running deficits has been no problem when foreign countries buy that debt, but the signs are that the likes of China and Japan will quit doing that. If the fed decides to monetize the debt we're looking at either oppressive taxes, oppressive interest rates or hyper-inflation. None of which is a good thing and will further cripple our industry.
The problem isn't that they're investing money- the problem is where the government is choosing to invest and who will be regulating it. Inflated interest rates are going to happen irregardless of a small, medium, or large stimulus. We were already at a deficit before this bill, and we will continue to run one for a long time.
Case in point:
$15,000 for homebuyers. Except it's not like the $7,500 "interest free loan" version passed a few months ago. There are no refunds from this bill. If your tax owed is less than that amount you don't get anything in return. It's just a way to break even. So don't expect to see a return in housing anytime soon...
"The average taxpayer pays considerably less than $15,000 a year in federal income taxes and so would not qualify for the entire credit. For example, if your total tax bill is $8,000, your debt would be zeroed out, but you wouldn't receive the remaining $7,000 as a refund."
Here's a thought- bring back the down payment assistance program instead. THAT helps people get into homes. My rent is the equivalent of a $350,000 mortgage, which I can pay comfortably. But I can't buy a $350,000 house right now because I can't come up with both the down payment AND the closing costs. (And $350k is super cheap in DC). A year ago I would have been fine- there was the down payment program. But Bush reversed that- and now I'll have to wait a few more years.
And as far as investments and what to buy now- I think every day there is a new "strategy" on every single money manager's website/blog.
A few months ago it was buy ETF's, then treasuries, now it's gold... then you can cash out your gold for cash... like Ed McMahon and MC Hammer
I want to repost or rephrase a previous question for the senior designers and firm owners out there, I think it got lost in the shuffle.
Will the economic difficulties we are all slogging through change or shape your policy and or opinion on interns and junior architects holding a 2nd job?
The reason for this query is to decide on weather to go for a degree or certification in another field that is not as exposed to economic downturns. This could be a variety of things from getting a degree in culinary arts, nursing, daycare or teaching. The problem with these alternate or parallel careers, when using them to bridge the hard times in the design professions, is that you need to stay up to date and you have to maintain certification which can be costly and requires you to be working.
If or when the demand picks up for the design services and the thousands of out of work or under employed interns and junior architects start applying to vacancies will you look at a 2nd job as a waiter, nurse, substitute teacher, day care provider, eldercare provider, bus driver, Truck driver, line cook, EMT, firefighter or some other service type job requiring some specialized skills as a negative? Will you insist on them giving up those 2nd jobs as a condition of employment or advancement?
The reason I ask this is that I’m gazing into my crystal ball and seeing no rapid turnaround in our industry for some time, but I do see the above mentioned fields being both stable and flexible. If I showed up with my eldercare license or certificate and said I can only work some nights, weekends, and holidays, I don’t think that would put me out of the running for those kind of jobs. I am thinking of this not as a means to supplement income as it is a safety net since such service oriented jobs can easily change from part time to full time if work at the firm slows down or another bubble burst in the real-estate market.
The goal is to be and Architect/ designer first, while having some economic security or safety net. If the answers turns out to be a resounding no I will not let you into my firm if you keep a 2nd job then I will know where to direct my time and limited resources, if it is a yes we welcome you as long as you can meet the deadlines then I might put some money and time into getting an associates in nursing, or get my EMT training.
Jabber, why on earth should we take responsibility for something that was not our fault? It would be like the employees of enron taking responsibility for those greedy scumbags who caused the mess in the first place.
I know of an architecture firm that axed most of their junior level people and the remaining ones got 30% paycuts whille the principals, PMs and senior associates got 5% paycuts. And apparently this seems to be a common occurance when I brought it up to some friends of mine.
I'm sure some of you "brilliant" senior level people will have some ridiculous explaination for that one! I don't mean to be offensive to some of you but the reason I've been using this abrasive tone is because we have heard you guys do all of the talking while the rest of us have been completely silenced. This forum is a good opportunity for US to voice our concern for once and hopefully allow you to understand the pain that you put people through when you axe their jobs. You just have to understand that you are categorically sabatoging the lives of hundreds of people. I don't see you guys taking the hit or taking any responsibility so why are you suggesting we should take all of the responsibility and blame ourselves?
I saw at least one firm in my area completely shut its doors putting at least 80 people out onto the streets while the three partners just ran off and are set for life! Very heroic. Don't you think?
archmed: I'm not particularly an apologist for anybody and I really have no clue where you live and work, but the situations you describe are so far beyond my reality that I really don't know how to respond.
In my world, the people who own firms generally make substantial sacrifices when the economy declines. Sure, they don't necessarily lose their jobs, but they do generally take huge pay cuts (usually a higher percentage than the rest of the staff) and they underwrite any loses the firm incurs and they are the people who provide personal guarantees on the firm's lease and other indebtedness. These are serious liabilities and not to be sneezed at. I know several firms in our area that have shut down altogether in recent days ... I know for a fact that the people who own those firms are not "set for life" ... they are unemployed and they have huge debts to pay.
I get your belligerant tone, but I think you may not have a clear understanding of how limited the options are for those who run firms. Firm owner's didn't screw up the economy -- all they did was provide employment for guys like you when there was work to be had. There was no implicit "lifetime guarantee" about that and they simply cannot carry the payroll for underutilized employees for any significant period of time when the work goes away. In this economy, no amount of marketing can produce new work if it simply doesn't exist.
You might want to rail against the boogey man here but, IMHO, much of your invective is off base. I've had to make decisions about terminating jobs in the past and I've had to deliver those messages in person ... I can tell you it is a gut-wrenching, sleep-losing proposition. I'm no hero, but I can tell you that I still feel that pain years afterwards. We're not all insensitive boobs -- but, as firm owners, we sometimes have to make very hard decisisions that sometimes have very unpleasant results.
It's simply wrong to suggest that all firm owners mismanage their way into these situations and it's also wrong to suggest that firm owners are unfeeling and insensitive to the pain they inflict when them must reduce the size of their staff.
You have the luxury of being young and inexperienced and arrogant ... I doubt you will think about these issues the same way 25-years from now, if you stay in the profession that long.
Archmed, all of the conditions you mention are quite rare. It is much more typical that a principal takes a 50 to 100% paycut before asking staff to take a paycut. I know many owners of companies in all types of businesses who are doing just that. They are trying to help cash flow. Owners also put money back in the company on a regular basis. They borrow money putting their own homes at risk to keep a firm going. Lets say you get a line of credit in case you need to make payroll for a few months (something I just did) while waiting for a client to pay his bills. The client goes belly up, and you will not receive payment, EVER. You already paid staff. You still owe the money to the bank. It is not all roses and flashy cars as you think it is.
And so what if the firm closes and the person who spent their life efforts and money building the firm is set for life???? They deserve it, they spent the most productive years of their life building the firm, making it successful, keeping value in the firm, just so they could do that. If I closed the doors to my firm today I could walk away with over $1 million in cash and receivables. Guess what, that is my money, that I left in the business and grew for the last 15 years. It is my retirement fund. And oh by the way, I already paid taxes to the IRS on it as income. Should I turn around and split it with employees who were with me for two years???
You don't have to take the responsibility or blame for a bad economy, but you can't blame it on the boss who was forced to lay you off due to a bad economy. Perhaps they could have managed the firm better, but in this economy, there is going to be a lot of suffering no matter how well you are run.
I understand- to a point- where both you, Archmed, and jabber are coming from. To a point. One of the basic misunderstandings of the entire economy is one of entitlement.
We are not entitled to credit. It is a privilege. The banks, the corporations, the CEO's, the principals, and yes, even the lowly interns are under a false assumption that we are "entitled".
Being entitled to credit means to buy something- no matter how big or small, since it's relative to your own income- that we can't really afford at that moment and then leverage it against future earnings.
Every large architecture firm does this in human capital... and so does every single architecture student who takes out a student loan against his/her own future income potential.
So when the future earnings don't come to fruition, we see a loss (although technically on paper) and attempt to be bailed out- whether it's the Feds doing it... or the bank of mom and dad.
You can't place all blame on CEO's, government, or architectural firm owners. But neither can you expect the younger generation to pick up the pieces. As someone else mentioned, it's a "re-valuation" of our economy.
Actually, it did change our policy and one of my employees is working part-time here and part-time with another firm.
It is a way to hold on to valuable people and not to lose history
for a project as it moves forward. It helps us both firms out.
Other people in the firm could not make that adjustment and wanted a full-time position, so unfortunately we had to let them go, even after securing a part time position.
As someone that has been laid off three times I can now admit that I see both sides. The first time I was let go, after 9|11, I took it quite hard. But, my firm did lots for me. I got four weeks severance and they wrote me a letter of recommendation. Seven years later, I focus on the positives. I realize that they didn't want to let go 14 people. They lost two projects that they were counting on that week.
The second time I was let go, I just didn't fit in there. I tried to work within their system. And, they were never going to see me for my potential. So, since I was too stubborn to quit they did us both a favor.
The most recent time was ugly. There were lots of petty politics involved. I took the high road. The company had pay cuts before the layoffs. Now, they are on their last legs. In a way, they did me a favor by letting me go early when I could find another job. Those that get let go now are screwed.
Without going into everything, I see where Archmed is coming from and there are those horrible experiences out there. But, hind sight makes you realize where management is coming from. You hope that they are like the people that have spoken up here. Always remember how you felt if you ever get put in the other side of that position.
It is absolutely ridiculous to expect that firm owners take a pay cut before laying off employees. If they do, its a calculated move to retain talent or they are simply being generous. This is capitalism after all.
So you heard about some firm owners who cut their entire staff loose and still have enough capital to live comfortably? Good for them! They were the ones who put the capital at risk after all, not the 9 to 5'ers.
we can b*tch all day about how unfair everything is, but it's simple supply and demand. architecture is a slave to the market much like anything else. we have more architects than are needed right now...unfortunately most of us are in the wrong place at the wrong time. my office cut salaries today, i'm sure layoffs are next.
Architecture eats their young, no question about it. On the other hand, if you've spent 15 yrs building a firm, are you going to risk all to keep a bunch of snot nosed interns in spagetti -os?
let me ask you:
1. Will said interns be so grateful that they will stay with you when things recover?
2. Will they hurry up and get their license and start pounding the pavement to bring in work?
3. Will they stop boozing it up afterhours, so they can be at work before 9 and not hungover?
4. will they stop surfing the web, archinect, i tunes, etc. and focus more on not making mistakes in the drawings?
1. Will said interns be so grateful that they will stay with you when things recover? They'll stay until they get bored or a slightly better offer or someone promises them a faster computer.
2. Will they hurry up and get their license and start pounding the pavement to bring in work? Hell no!
3. Will they stop boozing it up afterhours, so they can be at work before 9 and not hungover? Actually, this sort of behavior, if focused, could turn them into rainmakers.
4. will they stop surfing the web, archinect, i tunes, etc. and focus more on not making mistakes in the drawings? One need only look around here for the answer to that one.
if you do not have a job, stop whining and get your ass out on the streets and find a job. if you only focus on the past you will stay in the past.
if you have a job, do your best to keep it. if it is going down the tubes, get your resume and portfolio together and start looking. you are up against those who should be looking full time. but, by having a job you have a leg up on the competition. there are often reasons why you still have your job and others do not.
most owners of small and mid-size firms truly care about your futures. they have invested in you and want you to succeed. it is impossible for me to explain the warm feeling when i read of the success of someone who used to work for me. and, i cherish the memories of time spent with those employers who spent their time with me.
in some large firms employees can be little more than numbers, another head or a body to help on a project and move on to another. it happens until you can latch on, or be latched on to, someone who can take you under their wing. just do your best and establish positive working relationships with everyone. unless you are soooo good, and you probably are not, do not try to be the nail that sticks up.
"in some large firms employees can be little more than numbers, another head or a body to help on a project and move on to another." ---this is the truth. Martini + 1, let me help you finish your statement in other words (I know you would not say that since you are a gentleman):
The people who treat employees as numbers, or close to numbers, are a$$holes.
And in large firms "employees can be little more than numbers".
So, there can be a little more a$$holes in large firms.
Good friend was just put on reduced hours ~ 30hrs/week. She's doing three 10's with a 25% pay cut which I'm told is $15k gross per year lost. Tomorrow is the start of her "days off" or 4 day weekend. She's planning to apply for hourly work at retail and fast food places. I was trying to figure out how I'd live on $1,000 +/- less each month. Yeah, hard to imagine. The new reality I guess.
One problem with a 30 our week is that for most health insurance group policies, you can only have employees on a plan who are full time, which most define as 32 hours. So that employee could be losing her health care. Also, be aware that if you are a salary employee, and employer (under federal law) cannot cut your salary due to lack of work. The employee could possibly collect partial unemployment depending on the state. Salary employees are supposed to be paid full salary if they show up, unlike hourly employees that can be directly paid for their work on an hour to hour basis. If the employee was salary, she could possibly go back and collect overtime for any hours she worked above 40 since the employer now is treating her like an hourly employee. There are ways around this for the employer- they can basically fire the employee, and then renegotiate a new deal on an hourly basis.
I think this "us against them", employee vs. employer caricature is simply a choice... Maybe some workplaces are like that, but I don't think it's the standard.
It comes down to fundamentally what kind of organization are *you*? What are you (we) trying to build for ourselves, where is it the organization wants to go, what kind of culture do we create through our own example, in good times and in bad, whether junior intern or partner of the firm...? A firm isn't just the owner or employer, it's an organization comprised of diverse people big and small.
Even as we are seeing an economic downturn, and in days of layoffs, I'd like to believe that we are what we make of ourselves, and if we choose, people will look out for each other, not just "number 1", that we can support one another and help each other out in different ways, live and learn together, and that we don't wait for what comes our way, or look out for our own skins... Working is more than just a contract, it's a relationship...
IMHO work is basically social... There's professionalism that is carrying out individual responsabilities, taking ownership of things in that way, IMHO that's basically the contract of labor, as well as personal sense of responsibility. But it's the social aspect of work that develops loyalty and trust, that pushes individuals to go above and beyond for the people they work with, to teach and learn from each other, and that pushes teams to do the best work and enjoy it and not see it as sweat labor but something greater. In bad times, the relationships we build in work can endure even after people "graduate" onto other things if they are genuine friendships built on trust... I think if you face day to day in this way, you'll be happier whether times are good or times are rough...
We are basically defined by our relationships and the people around us, and how we treat others and affect others. Or coworkers and clients and business partners, etc. I'm not saying people are or should be selfless, but what's best for the firm as a whole is also best for me or you as the individual. Looked at in this way, even if you get laid off, or if your firm is struggling, or you lose your well loved employees and colleagues, it's sad but you can find strength in the comradery that you've built with the people you've worked with (and played with because that is equally important), and want to work with again in the future.
Loyalty and trust and respect can also cut both ways, and if you have that, it's not about blame, or finger pointing or cynicism, bitching about others or what you get out of it. It's about what you do next, on any particular day, and about what you can do individually or collectively to try to do better, regardless of whether you or the firm succeeds or fails, you own a piece of it... Shared successes and failures that you can learn from are better. That's basically IMHO the kind of tight ship that can weather storms, the ideal firm, the sort of organizations that are "best places to work"... Good management and strong grass roots basically...
martini+1, good advice -- what's your advice to someone who's been pounding the pavement for months and still have come up with nothing? Have you ever been in this situation?
archie - my friend works at a smaller firm that doesn't have a group health insurance plan. They give her a monthly stipend for benefits and she buys on the open market. That benefit they did not cut. And she's always been hourly, even as a registered architect. In better times she was paid time and a half over 40, which was very lucrative, but your're right, in bad times it gives the employer more leverage...probably by design.
"if you do not have a job, stop whining and get your ass out on the streets and find a job. if you only focus on the past you will stay in the past."
Spare people the Dr. Phil impression. Job openings have declined 35% in the last year in this country. For all jobs. It's likely far worse in architecture/construction. This is already worse in numbers and severity than any recession in decades. *There are NO jobs right now* And it will likely get worse this year before it begins to improve. Blaming this on the people that are actually looking for work as if it's their fault that the credit markets tightened up is really callous and insensitive. Losing a job is bad enough, don't pile any more on them. Who knows, you could be next.
'redundant' - that right there suggests that Foster and his office should cease to exist.
What a repugnant term. 'Redundant'. More repugnant is the USE of that term, suggesting we all just comply with their use of it as legitimate and honorable.
relax guys -- "redundancy" is a term long used in Britain to reflect an excess of staff relative to the available work. It has no origins in Foster's office.
I saw this article at BD online a British Architectural publication.
Indicating that Perkins & Will have been hiring- any truth to that?
To quote below:
But one practice is bucking the trend. Chicago-based Perkins & Will is recruiting aggressively, with more than 25 positions currently advertised on its website.
Bill Viehman, Perkins & Will principal and chief marketing officer, said: “These conditions are conducive to staff recruitment, but staff retention is equally important. Stability creates a sense of success and confidence.
Layoffs....layoffs......
A requirement to be eligible to participate in Disaster relief ie Honeybee Insurance is too ALREADY HAVE crop and or livestock insurance. Also, not all plants are pollinated by bees. Some like maize you call it corn are not. in other cases native bee populations have disappeared.
martin+1, I hear you on alot of your points... What we need in the stimulus is to get the money working fastest... How do you get the most multiplier effect in your stimulus to get money flowing the fastest.
But IMHO the point of the stimulus is not just to inject money into the system, it is also to create jobs, and produce real useful and needed production that puts money to work.
Tax cuts may help, but they don't do enough, we've tried this already... Tax cuts alone don't create jobs and they don't ensure that the money is being put to work to support industries that employ people. The problem is that credit is not flowing, and consumer confidence is down. If you give people an $8000 tax cut, they are not going to go out and renovate their bathroom or buy a large flat screen tv if they have just been laid off and are barely paying their bills and making their housing payments... They will put it into savings or pay down debt, but that does not mean that this money will be made available by the already struggling banks and financial institutions to companies and individuals, because the banks are beaten up...
Even the impact of the increased consumer spending from a $8000 tax break would not mean that companies are going to start hiring again. Consumer confidence is down, and companies are looking to control costs and reduce risk based on future expectations, they won't jump in and start creating jobs again just because of a tax cut... The problem is also that credit for companies is tight, businesses need access to credit to employ people or to put money to work. The scary thing is that the effects of all of the recent job losses haven't yet hit the economy, this will get much worse if we don't create jobs.
The credit market needs to be fixed, credit needs to flow, but regulation needs to be put in place to prevent this housing / investment bubble cycle from recurring...
Headline:
TAXPAYERS RISK $9.7 TRILLION ON BAILOUTS AS SENATE VOTES
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtonstory&sid=aGq2B3XeGKok
it makes one feel inconsequential. as noted elsewhere, "Mongo only pawn in game of life."
I for one am feeling like punching a horse in the mouth when dealing with all of this.
Crowbert, this is what I've been saying the whole time and most of these people don't get.
We're being made to suffer for someone else's fuck up. Whether it's from the piss-poor management of the firm, whether it's from the government, or from the actions of selfish wall street criminals -- it's not our fault. And anyone saying that we "should" blame ourselves in some way are just blind and need to never speak again.
All someone has to do is tell me why a prominent Chicago firm was working people to death until midnight every night and then axed 1/3 of their entire staff the next day. Everyone I talked to there were busy and trying to meet all kinds of crazy deadlines sacrificing their lives practically and then just like that everyone was cut like it was some kind of game. And it's not just that firm but a bunch of other firms as well that pulled the same kind of kidney blow tactics. Yes it's really ALL the employees fault -- especially those rotten and no good interns!
archmed...while i can appreciate some of your sentiments and share in some of your anger, I tend to think its larger than absent governement regulation and greedy wall street swindlers.
In was the inevitable outcome of a consumption based economy. faster, cheaper, and more of it mentality could not sustain itself forever. While none of us was personally "at fault", we've all been contributing to it for as long as we've been alive.
My only hope is that some good comes out of it. A shift of values.
we all contributed i agree and now we will all take responsibility
blame it on your great great grandparents for fostering this capitalism and environmental pollution but what good is that going to do?
re-valuation.
"am not into fox, cnn, abc, nbc, or cbs. make my own decisions. fox is running away with the ratings so they must either be doing something right or spot on with their coverage."
Father Coughlin had a pretty big following in the 1930s too.
Fox just lost a bundle of money. They are the right-wing station where everything goes through filter of stupidity. The other stations don't have as big a bias. They let Bush ruin the country.
We're talking about an $800 billion stimulus when we have a $2.9 trillion hole.
martini,
Holy Living Mother of Shit - that's more than half of the U.S. GDP for 2008. You can imagine though, if this isn't some epic conspiracy that is, that almost $10 trillion in just imagined capital still isn't enough to save the economy, what is?
revaluation sure....but I was talking more about a broader cultural shift. less focus on the numbers themselves and more on what the numbers mean.
encouragement of something beyond a "profits trump all as fast as we can" mindstate. more value and appreciation of "things" that people create and less value in gaming the system.
creating complex derivatives that skim micro percentages off billions of mortgages and the like are done. So what now?
Its a closed system. John Q. Public is too fucking broke and scared to risk putting any (big) money back in. So let them trade worthless bank stock amongst themselves for awhile. Sure taxpayer money will be used to fill in some gaping holes and line some pockets. That won't last forever, and our "captains of industry" will have to find a new game.
Maybe at that point they will find the game thats never truely been tested. The game of quality and longevity.
: "We're being made to suffer for someone else's fuck up. Whether it's from the piss-poor management of the firm, whether it's from the government, or from the actions of selfish wall street criminals -- it's not our fault."
Come on, Archmed - grow up a littlle. What's the point of this whiney, 'I'm an innocent victim' crap?
At the end of the day, we each have to stand on our own two feet. You can't go through life blaming everybody else for every little bump in the road.
Grow a pair and take at least a little responsibility for your own miserable life!
"Grow a pair and take at least a little responsibility for your own miserable life! "
that's hilarious. Seriously Archmed it aint that bad.
My dinner tonight consists of a $9 six pack of kronenbourg and $1.29 can of chef borardee meat tortellini. If things get really bad I can always cut back on the tortellini.
take that unemployment check and buy a case each: tortellini, ravioli, tuna, campbells chunky soup, chili, etc. and supplement with some fresh veggies. that should last you a couple months and reduce your daily food cost to $5 a day or less.
pay only select bills: credit cards, rent/mortgage, utilites, car payment, health insurance, car insurance...in that order.
anything left over is spread equally between beer, chinese equities, the roulette table, or anything else that helps get you through.
read the stimulus bill and extract something stimulating...
one of my investment buddies tells me to put everything i have into gold. not stock or an etf. real gold bullion! swears the bill will do nothing except devalue the dollar. since gold is priced in dollars it will require more dollars to buy gold.
snippets:
$25M cash to be distributed to each Filipino ww2 veteran living in america. can't be too many left. empty gesture by a senator from hawaii.
$150M for golf carts and other ngv for various government agencies.
funds for a national coordinator of health information technology, with associated bureaucracy.
not all is so bad. from a news report today that notes some of the benefits of the bill. "the latest version contains $2 billion for a clean-coal power plant with specifications matching one in Mattoon, Ill., $10 million for urban canals, $2 billion for manufacturing advanced batteries for hybrid cars, and $255 million for a polar icebreaker and other "priority procurements" by the Coast Guard." icebreakers are awesome! and, 'urban canals" pique my interest.
there is very little anyone here can do about the economy except rant. times of crisis are times of opportunity. we can either give in to whatever fate holds for us or challenge ourselves to the fullest. if we open our minds and venture outside of our little boxes we can embrace new possibilities of professional, personal and, possibly, financial growth.
other stations? less bias? a reference to npr?
"Father Coughlin had a pretty big following in the 1930s too." as did lenin, mao, and castro. demagogues of any stripe eventually find themselves in the dustbin of history.
am hoping 'defiance' comes out in dvd soon.
martin+1: you have a point that we ought to hold the government accountable for where the stimulus money is going, make sure that the money isn't going to useless and ineffective projects...
But you are only pointing out the "soundbite" questionable projects in the stimulus (which is important) but is a mischaracterisation of what the stimulus is intended to do.
More broadly, by general categories, this is a general breakdown of what was originally proposed in the house:
Energy:
$32 billion: Funding for "smart electricity grid" to reduce waste
$16 billion: Renewable energy tax cuts and a tax credit for research and development on energy-related work, and a multiyear extension of renewable energy production tax credit
$6 billion: Funding to weatherize modest-income homes
Science and Technology:
$10 billion: Science facilities.
$6 billion: High-speed Internet access for rural and underserved areas.
Infrastructure:
$30 billion: Transportation projects
$31 billion: Construction and repair of federal buildings and other public infrastructure
$19 billion: Water projects
$10 billion: Rail and mass transit projects
Education:
$41 billion: Grants to local school districts
$79 billion: State fiscal relief to prevent cuts in state aid
$21 billion: School modernization ($15.6 billion to increase the Pell grant by $500; $6 billion for higher education modernization)
Health Care:
$39 billion: Subsidies to health insurance for unemployed; providing coverage through Medicaid
$87 billion: Help to states with Medicaid
$20 billion: Modernization of health-information technology systems
$4.1 billion: Preventative care
Jobless Benefits:
$43 billion for increased unemployment benefits and job training.
$39 billion to support those who lose their jobs by helping them to pay the cost of keeping their employer provided healthcare under COBRA and providing short-term options to be covered by Medicaid.
$20 billion to increase the food stamp benefit by over 13% in order to help defray rising food costs.
*****
Percentage Breakdown:
1. Infrastructure - Rebuilding our highways, bridges, schools, etc. alongside creating more renewable energy (39% of total)
2. State Relief - Helping the states with unemployment benefits, budget shortfalls, medicaid, and the like (13% of total)
3. Struggling Citizens - Increase food stamps, unemployment insurance coverage, and provide insurance for the jobless (12% of total)
4. Tax Cuts - Tax cuts to individuals and business (36% of total)
*****
Another version of the breakdown:
Construction projects: $90 billion. Fund the rebuilding of crumbling roads and bridges, build clean water and flood control mechanisms and provide funding for mass transit systems.
Education: $142 billion. Rebuild thousands of schools by modernizing classrooms, labs and libraries. The plan would also increase funding for Pell Grants.
Renewable energy: $54 billion. Double production of alternative energy in the next three years. Weatherize low-income homes, modernize 75% of federal buildings and update the nation’s electrical grid with a new, cost-efficient “smart” grid.
Medicaid: $87 billion. Increase Federal Medicaid Assistance Percentage so states do not have to cut eligibility for Medicaid due to budget shortfalls.
Unemployment benefits: $43 billion. Extend through December 2009 emergency unemployment insurance assistance to states. Increase weekly unemployment benefits by $25, and provide incentives for states to expand unemployment coverage.
Middle-class tax cut: $145 billion. Tax cut amounting to $500 a year for individuals and $1,000 for couples. The full credit would be limited to those making $75,000 or less ($150,000 or less for workers filing joint returns).
Tax cuts for companies suffering losses: $17 billion over 10 years. Obama would temporarily broaden the “net-operating loss carryback” to five years, up from two years currently. The provision would let companies apply their 2008 and 2009 losses to past and future tax bills so they can get money back on taxes they’ve already paid or would otherwise have to pay.
*****
wall street journal breakdown by state
I'm surprised that the media is not covering the broad breakdown of the stimulus, instead looking for "soundbites" to drum up some kind of partisan emotions...
Why doesn't Fox News or MSNBC or CNN or any of the mainstream news media articulate very clearly this kind of breakdown... They're just squabbling to play political games... Their websites should really have charts, broad categories and figures in graphic representation on their websites... We don't need talking heads to tell us what people are thinking, why doesn't the media let people think for themselves... Post the breakdown on their front page for people to see, and let people speak out for themselves regarding the stimulus rather than describing generalized totals numbers... Sorry to rant, but I'm sick and tired of the ideological BS spewed by both the right and the left, for f*cks sake show us some meat not more hot wind and talking heads...
IMHO there's a psychological economic benefit to telling consumers and workers or those unemployed where money is going to build confidence and support.... If I were the Obama administration, I would post this for all to see. If there are controversial items, then so be it, the good the bad, this is taxpayer money so full transparency is what will give the thing support and hopefully weed out the waste. Let people see for themselves what they are buying, so that they are not hearing everything second or third hand...
Spoke to soon...
http://www.recovery.gov/
The Obama Administration is putting the entire stimulus plan on the web... Taxpayers will be able to track the distribution of the stimulus money online as it happens...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/28/recoverygov-obama-putting_n_161943.html
Here is the full bill that passed the house viewable online:
http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/hr1_engrossed.pdf
"one of my investment buddies tells me to put everything i have into gold. not stock or an etf. real gold bullion! swears the bill will do nothing except devalue the dollar. since gold is priced in dollars it will require more dollars to buy gold."
The thing with investment buddies is they are as wrong as everyone else...look at the past year. I had a financial "genius" tell me the EURO would fail in 10 years back when it was begun in the late 90's...and look where we are now.
Almost all of your judgement and rhetoric is based on hearsay and personal opinion...about as informative as Per.
I suppose a few good things have come out of this... even though the list is obviously endless for the bad, there are a things we've been wanting or designing for and yet couldn't figure out how to make it happen until the economy crashes- getting people to drive less and walk/bike/use transit more, less fatalities from car crashes because less cars on the road, less rfp's for shopping malls and asphalt miles of parking lots for said malls, sticking it to OPEC, more people going veggie (meat is too expensive), more people applying to grad school and seeing what else is out there, thrift store/craigslist shopping, starbucks stores failing and more people grinding at home, people actually saving money in a savings account...
I don't know...IMO it seems pretty awful- but there are some good things that have come from this
chupacabra, I'm not sure I'd put everything in gold, but it is an inflation hedge, so it never hurts to have some coins stashed away. Also, gold will never go to zero, like many stocks have.
The problem with the "stimulus" is that it's money we don't have. Running deficits has been no problem when foreign countries buy that debt, but the signs are that the likes of China and Japan will quit doing that. If the fed decides to monetize the debt we're looking at either oppressive taxes, oppressive interest rates or hyper-inflation. None of which is a good thing and will further cripple our industry.
I know bbb is laying off big time again.
The problem isn't that they're investing money- the problem is where the government is choosing to invest and who will be regulating it. Inflated interest rates are going to happen irregardless of a small, medium, or large stimulus. We were already at a deficit before this bill, and we will continue to run one for a long time.
Perfect example of the ideas that are wasting time...
http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/09/real_estate/tax_credit_near/index.htm?postversion=2009021007
Case in point:
$15,000 for homebuyers. Except it's not like the $7,500 "interest free loan" version passed a few months ago. There are no refunds from this bill. If your tax owed is less than that amount you don't get anything in return. It's just a way to break even. So don't expect to see a return in housing anytime soon...
"The average taxpayer pays considerably less than $15,000 a year in federal income taxes and so would not qualify for the entire credit. For example, if your total tax bill is $8,000, your debt would be zeroed out, but you wouldn't receive the remaining $7,000 as a refund."
Here's a thought- bring back the down payment assistance program instead. THAT helps people get into homes. My rent is the equivalent of a $350,000 mortgage, which I can pay comfortably. But I can't buy a $350,000 house right now because I can't come up with both the down payment AND the closing costs. (And $350k is super cheap in DC). A year ago I would have been fine- there was the down payment program. But Bush reversed that- and now I'll have to wait a few more years.
And as far as investments and what to buy now- I think every day there is a new "strategy" on every single money manager's website/blog.
A few months ago it was buy ETF's, then treasuries, now it's gold... then you can cash out your gold for cash... like Ed McMahon and MC Hammer
I want to repost or rephrase a previous question for the senior designers and firm owners out there, I think it got lost in the shuffle.
Will the economic difficulties we are all slogging through change or shape your policy and or opinion on interns and junior architects holding a 2nd job?
The reason for this query is to decide on weather to go for a degree or certification in another field that is not as exposed to economic downturns. This could be a variety of things from getting a degree in culinary arts, nursing, daycare or teaching. The problem with these alternate or parallel careers, when using them to bridge the hard times in the design professions, is that you need to stay up to date and you have to maintain certification which can be costly and requires you to be working.
If or when the demand picks up for the design services and the thousands of out of work or under employed interns and junior architects start applying to vacancies will you look at a 2nd job as a waiter, nurse, substitute teacher, day care provider, eldercare provider, bus driver, Truck driver, line cook, EMT, firefighter or some other service type job requiring some specialized skills as a negative? Will you insist on them giving up those 2nd jobs as a condition of employment or advancement?
The reason I ask this is that I’m gazing into my crystal ball and seeing no rapid turnaround in our industry for some time, but I do see the above mentioned fields being both stable and flexible. If I showed up with my eldercare license or certificate and said I can only work some nights, weekends, and holidays, I don’t think that would put me out of the running for those kind of jobs. I am thinking of this not as a means to supplement income as it is a safety net since such service oriented jobs can easily change from part time to full time if work at the firm slows down or another bubble burst in the real-estate market.
The goal is to be and Architect/ designer first, while having some economic security or safety net. If the answers turns out to be a resounding no I will not let you into my firm if you keep a 2nd job then I will know where to direct my time and limited resources, if it is a yes we welcome you as long as you can meet the deadlines then I might put some money and time into getting an associates in nursing, or get my EMT training.
Your thoughts are much appreciated.
Jabber, why on earth should we take responsibility for something that was not our fault? It would be like the employees of enron taking responsibility for those greedy scumbags who caused the mess in the first place.
I know of an architecture firm that axed most of their junior level people and the remaining ones got 30% paycuts whille the principals, PMs and senior associates got 5% paycuts. And apparently this seems to be a common occurance when I brought it up to some friends of mine.
I'm sure some of you "brilliant" senior level people will have some ridiculous explaination for that one! I don't mean to be offensive to some of you but the reason I've been using this abrasive tone is because we have heard you guys do all of the talking while the rest of us have been completely silenced. This forum is a good opportunity for US to voice our concern for once and hopefully allow you to understand the pain that you put people through when you axe their jobs. You just have to understand that you are categorically sabatoging the lives of hundreds of people. I don't see you guys taking the hit or taking any responsibility so why are you suggesting we should take all of the responsibility and blame ourselves?
I saw at least one firm in my area completely shut its doors putting at least 80 people out onto the streets while the three partners just ran off and are set for life! Very heroic. Don't you think?
archmed: I'm not particularly an apologist for anybody and I really have no clue where you live and work, but the situations you describe are so far beyond my reality that I really don't know how to respond.
In my world, the people who own firms generally make substantial sacrifices when the economy declines. Sure, they don't necessarily lose their jobs, but they do generally take huge pay cuts (usually a higher percentage than the rest of the staff) and they underwrite any loses the firm incurs and they are the people who provide personal guarantees on the firm's lease and other indebtedness. These are serious liabilities and not to be sneezed at. I know several firms in our area that have shut down altogether in recent days ... I know for a fact that the people who own those firms are not "set for life" ... they are unemployed and they have huge debts to pay.
I get your belligerant tone, but I think you may not have a clear understanding of how limited the options are for those who run firms. Firm owner's didn't screw up the economy -- all they did was provide employment for guys like you when there was work to be had. There was no implicit "lifetime guarantee" about that and they simply cannot carry the payroll for underutilized employees for any significant period of time when the work goes away. In this economy, no amount of marketing can produce new work if it simply doesn't exist.
You might want to rail against the boogey man here but, IMHO, much of your invective is off base. I've had to make decisions about terminating jobs in the past and I've had to deliver those messages in person ... I can tell you it is a gut-wrenching, sleep-losing proposition. I'm no hero, but I can tell you that I still feel that pain years afterwards. We're not all insensitive boobs -- but, as firm owners, we sometimes have to make very hard decisisions that sometimes have very unpleasant results.
It's simply wrong to suggest that all firm owners mismanage their way into these situations and it's also wrong to suggest that firm owners are unfeeling and insensitive to the pain they inflict when them must reduce the size of their staff.
You have the luxury of being young and inexperienced and arrogant ... I doubt you will think about these issues the same way 25-years from now, if you stay in the profession that long.
Archmed, all of the conditions you mention are quite rare. It is much more typical that a principal takes a 50 to 100% paycut before asking staff to take a paycut. I know many owners of companies in all types of businesses who are doing just that. They are trying to help cash flow. Owners also put money back in the company on a regular basis. They borrow money putting their own homes at risk to keep a firm going. Lets say you get a line of credit in case you need to make payroll for a few months (something I just did) while waiting for a client to pay his bills. The client goes belly up, and you will not receive payment, EVER. You already paid staff. You still owe the money to the bank. It is not all roses and flashy cars as you think it is.
And so what if the firm closes and the person who spent their life efforts and money building the firm is set for life???? They deserve it, they spent the most productive years of their life building the firm, making it successful, keeping value in the firm, just so they could do that. If I closed the doors to my firm today I could walk away with over $1 million in cash and receivables. Guess what, that is my money, that I left in the business and grew for the last 15 years. It is my retirement fund. And oh by the way, I already paid taxes to the IRS on it as income. Should I turn around and split it with employees who were with me for two years???
You don't have to take the responsibility or blame for a bad economy, but you can't blame it on the boss who was forced to lay you off due to a bad economy. Perhaps they could have managed the firm better, but in this economy, there is going to be a lot of suffering no matter how well you are run.
I understand- to a point- where both you, Archmed, and jabber are coming from. To a point. One of the basic misunderstandings of the entire economy is one of entitlement.
We are not entitled to credit. It is a privilege. The banks, the corporations, the CEO's, the principals, and yes, even the lowly interns are under a false assumption that we are "entitled".
Being entitled to credit means to buy something- no matter how big or small, since it's relative to your own income- that we can't really afford at that moment and then leverage it against future earnings.
Every large architecture firm does this in human capital... and so does every single architecture student who takes out a student loan against his/her own future income potential.
So when the future earnings don't come to fruition, we see a loss (although technically on paper) and attempt to be bailed out- whether it's the Feds doing it... or the bank of mom and dad.
You can't place all blame on CEO's, government, or architectural firm owners. But neither can you expect the younger generation to pick up the pieces. As someone else mentioned, it's a "re-valuation" of our economy.
Actually, it did change our policy and one of my employees is working part-time here and part-time with another firm.
It is a way to hold on to valuable people and not to lose history
for a project as it moves forward. It helps us both firms out.
Other people in the firm could not make that adjustment and wanted a full-time position, so unfortunately we had to let them go, even after securing a part time position.
As someone that has been laid off three times I can now admit that I see both sides. The first time I was let go, after 9|11, I took it quite hard. But, my firm did lots for me. I got four weeks severance and they wrote me a letter of recommendation. Seven years later, I focus on the positives. I realize that they didn't want to let go 14 people. They lost two projects that they were counting on that week.
The second time I was let go, I just didn't fit in there. I tried to work within their system. And, they were never going to see me for my potential. So, since I was too stubborn to quit they did us both a favor.
The most recent time was ugly. There were lots of petty politics involved. I took the high road. The company had pay cuts before the layoffs. Now, they are on their last legs. In a way, they did me a favor by letting me go early when I could find another job. Those that get let go now are screwed.
Without going into everything, I see where Archmed is coming from and there are those horrible experiences out there. But, hind sight makes you realize where management is coming from. You hope that they are like the people that have spoken up here. Always remember how you felt if you ever get put in the other side of that position.
It is absolutely ridiculous to expect that firm owners take a pay cut before laying off employees. If they do, its a calculated move to retain talent or they are simply being generous. This is capitalism after all.
So you heard about some firm owners who cut their entire staff loose and still have enough capital to live comfortably? Good for them! They were the ones who put the capital at risk after all, not the 9 to 5'ers.
we can b*tch all day about how unfair everything is, but it's simple supply and demand. architecture is a slave to the market much like anything else. we have more architects than are needed right now...unfortunately most of us are in the wrong place at the wrong time. my office cut salaries today, i'm sure layoffs are next.
Architecture eats their young, no question about it. On the other hand, if you've spent 15 yrs building a firm, are you going to risk all to keep a bunch of snot nosed interns in spagetti -os?
let me ask you:
1. Will said interns be so grateful that they will stay with you when things recover?
2. Will they hurry up and get their license and start pounding the pavement to bring in work?
3. Will they stop boozing it up afterhours, so they can be at work before 9 and not hungover?
4. will they stop surfing the web, archinect, i tunes, etc. and focus more on not making mistakes in the drawings?
it cuts both ways....
let me ask you:
1. Will said interns be so grateful that they will stay with you when things recover? They'll stay until they get bored or a slightly better offer or someone promises them a faster computer.
2. Will they hurry up and get their license and start pounding the pavement to bring in work? Hell no!
3. Will they stop boozing it up afterhours, so they can be at work before 9 and not hungover? Actually, this sort of behavior, if focused, could turn them into rainmakers.
4. will they stop surfing the web, archinect, i tunes, etc. and focus more on not making mistakes in the drawings? One need only look around here for the answer to that one.
If you don't like working for the man, go and hang your shingle. You can do it!
for those who know who you are...
if you do not have a job, stop whining and get your ass out on the streets and find a job. if you only focus on the past you will stay in the past.
if you have a job, do your best to keep it. if it is going down the tubes, get your resume and portfolio together and start looking. you are up against those who should be looking full time. but, by having a job you have a leg up on the competition. there are often reasons why you still have your job and others do not.
most owners of small and mid-size firms truly care about your futures. they have invested in you and want you to succeed. it is impossible for me to explain the warm feeling when i read of the success of someone who used to work for me. and, i cherish the memories of time spent with those employers who spent their time with me.
in some large firms employees can be little more than numbers, another head or a body to help on a project and move on to another. it happens until you can latch on, or be latched on to, someone who can take you under their wing. just do your best and establish positive working relationships with everyone. unless you are soooo good, and you probably are not, do not try to be the nail that sticks up.
"in some large firms employees can be little more than numbers, another head or a body to help on a project and move on to another." ---this is the truth. Martini + 1, let me help you finish your statement in other words (I know you would not say that since you are a gentleman):
The people who treat employees as numbers, or close to numbers, are a$$holes.
And in large firms "employees can be little more than numbers".
So, there can be a little more a$$holes in large firms.
Good friend was just put on reduced hours ~ 30hrs/week. She's doing three 10's with a 25% pay cut which I'm told is $15k gross per year lost. Tomorrow is the start of her "days off" or 4 day weekend. She's planning to apply for hourly work at retail and fast food places. I was trying to figure out how I'd live on $1,000 +/- less each month. Yeah, hard to imagine. The new reality I guess.
One problem with a 30 our week is that for most health insurance group policies, you can only have employees on a plan who are full time, which most define as 32 hours. So that employee could be losing her health care. Also, be aware that if you are a salary employee, and employer (under federal law) cannot cut your salary due to lack of work. The employee could possibly collect partial unemployment depending on the state. Salary employees are supposed to be paid full salary if they show up, unlike hourly employees that can be directly paid for their work on an hour to hour basis. If the employee was salary, she could possibly go back and collect overtime for any hours she worked above 40 since the employer now is treating her like an hourly employee. There are ways around this for the employer- they can basically fire the employee, and then renegotiate a new deal on an hourly basis.
2 cent rant...
I think this "us against them", employee vs. employer caricature is simply a choice... Maybe some workplaces are like that, but I don't think it's the standard.
It comes down to fundamentally what kind of organization are *you*? What are you (we) trying to build for ourselves, where is it the organization wants to go, what kind of culture do we create through our own example, in good times and in bad, whether junior intern or partner of the firm...? A firm isn't just the owner or employer, it's an organization comprised of diverse people big and small.
Even as we are seeing an economic downturn, and in days of layoffs, I'd like to believe that we are what we make of ourselves, and if we choose, people will look out for each other, not just "number 1", that we can support one another and help each other out in different ways, live and learn together, and that we don't wait for what comes our way, or look out for our own skins... Working is more than just a contract, it's a relationship...
IMHO work is basically social... There's professionalism that is carrying out individual responsabilities, taking ownership of things in that way, IMHO that's basically the contract of labor, as well as personal sense of responsibility. But it's the social aspect of work that develops loyalty and trust, that pushes individuals to go above and beyond for the people they work with, to teach and learn from each other, and that pushes teams to do the best work and enjoy it and not see it as sweat labor but something greater. In bad times, the relationships we build in work can endure even after people "graduate" onto other things if they are genuine friendships built on trust... I think if you face day to day in this way, you'll be happier whether times are good or times are rough...
We are basically defined by our relationships and the people around us, and how we treat others and affect others. Or coworkers and clients and business partners, etc. I'm not saying people are or should be selfless, but what's best for the firm as a whole is also best for me or you as the individual. Looked at in this way, even if you get laid off, or if your firm is struggling, or you lose your well loved employees and colleagues, it's sad but you can find strength in the comradery that you've built with the people you've worked with (and played with because that is equally important), and want to work with again in the future.
Loyalty and trust and respect can also cut both ways, and if you have that, it's not about blame, or finger pointing or cynicism, bitching about others or what you get out of it. It's about what you do next, on any particular day, and about what you can do individually or collectively to try to do better, regardless of whether you or the firm succeeds or fails, you own a piece of it... Shared successes and failures that you can learn from are better. That's basically IMHO the kind of tight ship that can weather storms, the ideal firm, the sort of organizations that are "best places to work"... Good management and strong grass roots basically...
martini+1, good advice -- what's your advice to someone who's been pounding the pavement for months and still have come up with nothing? Have you ever been in this situation?
archie - my friend works at a smaller firm that doesn't have a group health insurance plan. They give her a monthly stipend for benefits and she buys on the open market. That benefit they did not cut. And she's always been hourly, even as a registered architect. In better times she was paid time and a half over 40, which was very lucrative, but your're right, in bad times it gives the employer more leverage...probably by design.
"if you do not have a job, stop whining and get your ass out on the streets and find a job. if you only focus on the past you will stay in the past."
Spare people the Dr. Phil impression. Job openings have declined 35% in the last year in this country. For all jobs. It's likely far worse in architecture/construction. This is already worse in numbers and severity than any recession in decades. *There are NO jobs right now* And it will likely get worse this year before it begins to improve. Blaming this on the people that are actually looking for work as if it's their fault that the credit markets tightened up is really callous and insensitive. Losing a job is bad enough, don't pile any more on them. Who knows, you could be next.
is this going to be a 10 pager?
Anyone seen this:
Foster's to make 300 to 400 redundancies
"Foster & Partners has announced plans to make around a quarter of its workforce redundant and has closed two of its 17 offices around the globe."
'redundant' - that right there suggests that Foster and his office should cease to exist.
What a repugnant term. 'Redundant'. More repugnant is the USE of that term, suggesting we all just comply with their use of it as legitimate and honorable.
I thought the new term was "rightsize."
relax guys -- "redundancy" is a term long used in Britain to reflect an excess of staff relative to the available work. It has no origins in Foster's office.
yeah, haven't you seen the British version of The Office? :) They use the word "redundant" often.
I saw this article at BD online a British Architectural publication.
Indicating that Perkins & Will have been hiring- any truth to that?
To quote below:
But one practice is bucking the trend. Chicago-based Perkins & Will is recruiting aggressively, with more than 25 positions currently advertised on its website.
Bill Viehman, Perkins & Will principal and chief marketing officer, said: “These conditions are conducive to staff recruitment, but staff retention is equally important. Stability creates a sense of success and confidence.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.