martini+1: HKS buying Hill/Glazier was one of the few smart firm acquisitions the home office in Dallas made. H/G was/is a powerful entity. Not knocking the other firms acquired in the last few years, but I ponder how all involved would have faired this downturn if not for overhead and titles.
file: Very interesting find. Arch firms have reduced their payrolls by 14%, yet in general payrolls have been reduced by 4.3% - that's some disparity. I am curious if another sector, i.e. engineering, accounting, etc. have higher reduction in payrolls. I know architects who've gone to a "4-day" work week and taken 20% paycuts.
I guage the economy by Architecture Want Adds posted in the Sunday NYT.....and it has been bleak compaired to a year ago. There have been few sparks....but really dead in the water.
Good news is I met with a client whom I have done work with in the past and well they are thinking long range and want to spend some money planning....so this is a good sign. He is one of the most conservative people I know and well he must be weathering the storm or he would not be talking to me.
This discussion inspired me to join. A good friend of mine got laid off at HKS last month. Incredibly talented individual. I have been observing the firm for a while as I know many people who work(ed) there.
My opinion is that HKS, as a top international firm, is finished.
1. Greed.
Top level compensation is based largely on bonuses. So the faster you grow and absorb other firms the more profits you make. Absolutely no consideration was made to the "workhorse" employees if, lets say, the economy soured.
The similarities of the business structure of this firm and the American sub-prime mortgage debacle are striking. Like Countrywide and Wachovia - HKS created a bubble for itself that was unsustainable.
2. The brand is tarnished
Its roster has been depleted 50% since the downturn began. When a firm lays off half of its employees in less than 1 year it show incompetence in management. Perhaps if management paid more attention to economics and industry cycles then distributing out "best places to work" forms they would be in a better place. (Funny they still received the best place to work in DF/W award while they were slashing payrolls) What a twisted ego to pursue such things.
3.Nepotism
HKS has always been famous for office politics. But in this economy you must place the health of your firm above such frivolous things. HKS, of course, is not. While they are shedding some of the most talented people in the industry they are retaining vast amounts of mediocrity simply because they are related to or otherwise associated to someone in upper management. If the new HKS that emerges from this recession wishes to re-build itself on a foundation of sand, then so be it. On the other end, I know of a few firms that are preparing for an upturn by actively reaching out to former HKS employees. This level of experience and talent normally is not available to them.
4. New signature projects? Any?
The W hotel, Colts Stadium, and Cowboys Stadium... Whats next?
It has been years since HKS landed these projects. What major project has the firm brought in that is actually being built and will create buzz in the industry? I have yet to hear anything (and I doubt we will for some time).
Firmcom, SOM has been doing the same thing as HKS since it was founded -- that's just who they are! So don't count them out! They have their clientelle and their niche market with healthcare, sports, and comercial. As a matter of fact, in the last recession, HKS hemhoraged quite a bit of jobs. It's been a hire-fire firm for a long time.
BlueGoose, I have long thought that you seem to be an exception to the rule of architecture principals / upper management, for what it's worth. You sound reasonable, level-headed, and as though you put the good of the firm first (over personal good, for example, or short-term good). Question for you : are you a sole proprietorship, or do you have partners? I get the feel it's the latter, am I right?
firmcom: You hit the nail on the head. It sounds like your friend was from the Dallas office. Lots of great people "lost" - but not just at HKS, lots of firms across the globe. Tell your friend there is a linkedIn group of ex-hks employees - the ranks grow. I have mixed feelings about management at HKS. What sucks is that they've prided themselves on diverse project types and would insure the firm that we'd always have work. Of course with the global economy in the tank, how can you shuffle commercial people into the hospitality game or healthcare? Before late 08, the last time there were layoffs was post 9/11/01 (maybe 20 people total). The nepotism is a tough thing. When it's a "mom-pop" / sole proprietorship, the boss keeping his relatives is one thing, but for a firm gunning for "tier one" status in the architectural world, it dilutes their efforts. I hope the ship is righted soon - too many friends are in my shoes and it's not good company for any of us to be in at the moment.
dots and dashes- you mentioned you were freshly unemployed... where are you located?
as far as HKS and SOM... you can add many other "initial" firms which fit the same profile. what might happen to HKS is what happened to RTKL... they get bought by some international environmental/engineering/civil firm - like in RTKL's instance, ARCADIS.
someone above compared financial firms to architecture firms ... and the same thing will happen to US firms that happened to banks- they'll get bought by some foreign firm- and then we'll all be too big to fail, right?
Oh, except we're architects, not $$$ advisors worth billions... and nobody gives a rat's ass...
: yes - I have several partners - some founders / some second generation. we are far from perfect and, based on firmcom's post above we're probably "incompetent" since we're also down about 50% since a year ago.
these are genuinely hard times -- the hardest I've seen in my 30+ years in the profession. contraction in times like these doesn't indicate either a lack of vision or ability. survival does, IMHO, convey a certain connection to the marketplace and some competence in managing difficult circumstances.
when there is little to no work, survival generally means staff reductions in our profession. those are incredibly painful for everybody, but more so for those who lose their jobs. I don't much enjoy owning a firm when these conditions exist.
Bad times are bad times -- it is what it is. Kudos to you for staying afloat, BlueGoose. The reason I ask is because I am keenly interested in matters of management as I hope to own my own firm some day and am hoping, frankly, to create a firm that people want to work for, and a firm that is vastly different than many of those I have worked for myself. Not sure yet how to go about doing that, but I'm in the process of forming some ideas... in any case, I find your comments interesting, although as I said I think (in my experience) your attitude might put you in the minority of arch. managers.
: you are very kind in your comments. In my experience, the values you notice are not that rare - I know many principals, in our area and beyond, who care about their staff and act accordingly. But, I also know many who don't.
I'm not sure what accounts for the difference. Certainly regional cultural characteristics are a factor. I tend to think it has more to do with the type of person who goes into architecture. There's a fairly high percentage of self-absorbed individuals who don't care much about, or see the value in, strong personal relationships. Combine this with a lack of business acumen and you don't really have a great foundation for building, and sustaining, a strong firm.
Can anyone name a firm that hasn't laid off at all? Or a firm who has had limited layoffs?
I know of some firms that have gone to 4 day work weeks and paycuts across the board, top to bottom.
Those of us that have been laid off, may have resentment. But firms don't generate their work - must have clients. When banks don't loan moneys, developers' "dreams" don't even get to the drawing board.
Yes, hard feelings to a degree - I could lose my home - a home to a wife and two kids. But what about the recent grad, trying to get started? Getting no where? Or the more experienced architect / designer who is just trying to get to retirement? I see it as a cross-section of people with varied experience. It stinks. Hang in there!
blackflag - I know of a couple very small firms local to me that haven't laid anyone off, but they are all firms under 10 people. Once their one or two active jobs are finished with nothing new in the hopper they could be at zero staff in short order.
One fault I do find with management at the larger firms like HKS, etc. is that they haven't been good at breaking down the autonomy of their different studios, i.e. layoffs have appeared very reactionary based solely on how much work each individual/studio has and not so much on the skills and merits of each individual employee. I have not personally seen a strong effort to keep the BEST employees regardless of how busy they may be at the current time.
The principal level answer I've been given about this is because it's hard to move staff to different project types. Why a 50 person offices can move staff around so easily while a 200 person office cannot just boggles me.
I do not buy the notion that you cannot move production staff between project types. Actually I think it's ideal to move staff around even in good times. It leads to more flexible staff planning and also keeps your staff more diverse in marketable skills. Over time this leads to reduction in downtime and/or overtime expenses and much expanded ability to serve clients. You can also acheive qualitative benefits of more inter-office transparency, increased morale, etc.
I've seen firms lay off entire studios because of lacking work. None of the talent was retained for a future pick up in the economy. Wouldn't management rather have a workforce with broad based experience over potentially having to rehire and train an entire studio at great expense?
blackflag - we're at 6 people but had to let one person go last february (well, technically, they resigned but we gave them about 3 months of advance warning the work just wasn't there and that they needed to do whatever they needed to do to find something more secure. luckily they were able to get a much higher paying government job).
small firms are generally going to be in a little better shape than the larger firms in this. payroll for 6-7 people every two weeks can be done, while payroll for 50 or 200, if the work isn't there, is impossible.
how those firms are deciding who to cut is another story. one of the large (250+) offices here in town we heard first hand that they basically have a 'list' that was developed after performance reviews last year, which ranks employees from 1-250, based on their relative 'value'. when they had to make cuts earlier this year, they figured out the number and then just took the first 50 from the bottom. now, that's not the way i'd do it, but that's one way i suppose...
med - I had read that - shocking but having come from HKS; I knew of one of Gehry's big projects that was put "on hold" back in late 08 and we had to shuffle staff.
aqua & outed - thanks for the feedback. I agree with the sentiment that firms of the size of HKS should be able to move staff around better from project type to project type. The healthcare type is a hard nut to crack - for those that are in it, don't get rid of the goose that lays the golden egg. I too have heard of some firms in Dallas doing multi-family that are running on vapors - projects are in CA and it won't last.
I do not buy the notion that you cannot move production staff between project types. Actually I think it's ideal to move staff around even in good times.
i completely disagree with this. clients work closely with project architects and design staff. they grow to rely on and trust these individuals. if you are continually shuffling staff, you degrade these relationships. often times clients are confused and frustrated by staff changes, let alone frequent staff changes.
additionally shuffling staff assignments means that you have to teach fresh eyes an entire project history. large projects take years to evolve. if a decision was made two years ago, you want to have people on your team that were present when that decision was made. the idea of being "nimble" is a good one, but it only works within certain contexts. the key for a good project manager is to know when to be nimble and when to be consistent.
jafidler - I think you mis-understood me. By no means would I condone shuffling staff mid-project, unless you were ridding a project of a underperforming member. And the PA/PM's that have close working relationship with repeat clients shouldn't be replaced, or moved, away from that client on a regular basis. What my gripe is that production staff that isn't management should get some broad based exposure. The "teaching" does cost some money in terms of efficiency but give greater flexibility in getting the most productive staff where they are needed. In a downturn you can eliminate the under performers without worry of the expense of moving someone over from a different team. Clearly the larger firms are going to have issues when the economy rebounds as many have let go of top staff while retaining some of their lesser staff. This should never happen, no matter what the size of the firm is.
We shuffle around our staff between studios quite a bit. We're a pretty stealthy group -- we only have about 15 production-level people, a slew of principals and senior associates, and a handfull of PMs. So we don't have an enormously unweildy staff to constantly feed work. We get slow at times but we get swamped REALLY quickly. People here are pretty good about keeping people busy with just about anything. They want to teach all of us youngins every possible thing so we can be very versatile when we are needed suddenly. Another thing is that all our studios are traditionally niche markets such as justice, federal and state, military, university, and science and technology. We don't do any mix-use, retail, hospitality, comerical, or residential and I think that's why we've been able to come this far.
I will say that we are very top heavy! However the senior people all have extremely impressive credentials and capabilities. Not to mention they are paid to make it rain and they've done a good job at that so far.
If nothing else, this information might help readers understand the relative prospects of various sectors of the industry and the possible timing of recovery.
So what is really happening out there? This thread seems to be dying. Lately everyone is posting articles or giving there opinions on other threads. Has anyone noticed that no one has submitted info on any firms laying of recently. Only heard that P+W laid off 9-10 people about a month ago. Apart from that nothing else. They aren't laying off like Oct 08 - Mar 09. So maybe the layoffs are slowing down for now. Work doesn't seem particularly great with lots of work but things are popping up. Ran into a recent grad of arch school the other day working at whole foods. Said that he hasn't been able to find anything and is going home in Sep. when his lease is up. Another grad said that out of 100 undergrad plus grad students that recently graduated only 2 found jobs another 15 had been working as interns while at school and just got absorbed full time. I really feel for them, but it wasn't that much better when I got out of school.
the big layoffs have somewhat subsided though firms are still skeptical about hiring. some people are probably just sick of this thread (or taking a break from it) and just attempting to divert attention to more positive things where possible.
i have a few friends who were recently hired - competition is fierce. you've gotta have the right smile and perfect personality to go with your license and LEED AP certification. you blink funny during any of the multiple interviews and the interviewer continue's considering the other 100 people knocking on their door.
3rd quarter of the year is coming up, folks who are still employed are wondering what's around the corner.
I'm still unemployed in architecture. going on 15 months in cites on both coasts. yippee. I'm starting to think my IDP window may be in jeopardy now. not only the pressure of getting a job with a swiss cheese resume, keeping it, but cramming in idp within time too. it just keeps getting better.
Overall I have not seen any increases in hiring where I am (Portland, or). everybody is still hurting.
There are still layoffs happening out there. Most of my friends in the buiz work for mid to smaller sized firms so the names wouldn't mean much but they are still shedding jobs. Know of firms cutting people within the last month in Houston, Dallas, Chicago, Minneapolis, Denver and Kansas City....and that's just from the old classmates and friends I keep in touch with.
What I've noticed is what little work is coming in isn't the same scale of the work we were doing a year or two ago. Small projects that really don't justify the already reduced staff we have. People get really nervous around the begining of a new month. Things are tense to say the least.
Almost on a weekly basis I try contacting a consulting engineer or contractor or developer only to find that they no longer are employed. This downturn is sweeping across the whole spectrum of the industry, however it sounds like Architects are taking a particular beating.
A couple weeks ago several old friends and I got together over a few beers and brainstormed on "alternative careers" since we were all either unemployed already or on reduced hours. One friend's employer showed him the stack of resumes they've received within the past year. There were over 1000 of them. He's been studying them trying to get his own resume looking unique. Still, that's hopeful thinking in this market.
I alone recieve about five resumes a week from other friends and former colleages. I cannot imagine what the volume of resumes some of the big wigs are getting!
I've still been hearing about layoffs here and there around the city. The main reason you're not hearing about things being as bad as they were int he fall and winter is because most firms right now including the large corporate ones are operating with skelleton staffs. A lot of these firms still have a lot of work to get finished but with significantly reduced staff. So as much as they'd love to reduce their payrolls, they still have to get this work out the door! I know other people who are still employed and are making 20k less than they were a year ago and are ready to walk out the door if there is even one more paycut.
Oh and my firm just had layoff a couple weeks ago -- our first round believe it or not! It was small compared to the others I've heard. However since we are AE it affected engineers, architects, and CAD draftspeople.
Just so you guys know, a lot of our consultants have shed jobs in huge numbers as well. For example, one of the big name engineering firms in the city, reduced their staff by over 50% recently.
On the plus side, I've heard of people getting hired here and there!
Also take in to mind that some of the large firms hire college students for the summer. I always assumed these summer interns were making minimum wage or slightly better. Once they go back to school, who knows what the firms will do. I applied for a job a few weeks back and actually got a call for an interview. Basically I'd be switching sides of the table and becoming an owner's rep. I was told that there were 70 applicants for the position alone.
Also a tip for some of you that may have not updated your portfolio since graduating college...IF you have professional experience, by all means DOCUMENT it! If you're from my early Gen_X generation, the cut and paste route doesn't work these days. Make it like a brochure - in other words clean, crisp and eye candy. Don't fudge about what you've done, honesty is the best policy. I had some critique my folio and it was harsh but honest opinions that I valued and have since implemented. Good luck!
being a full-time academia worker now,
imho, during these restructing periods, big or small sharks made very quick decisions and laid off many talented, fast, highly skilled people...thats a fact.
to be fair, things are still slow and no recovery, might be the -plus- reason, whoever left ,quite slow too ? :)
At my last office they were far too eratic and fired waaaaay to many people. Now they are scrambling to staff projects but everyone is peacing out because they are working 12-hour days with a significantly truncated salary.
And just from my observation deck, there are layoffs still happening but people are also hiring. Even firms that aren't advertising positions are taking people in.
I'm back in architecture after leaving for 5 months for a CM job and I'm hearing less and less about layoffs. A few local firms are going flat out on stimulus projects but most are just limping along. My office is at 50% and we are holding on to about 2 months of work so those of us still here are not feeling very comfortable (in fact we have all.
It's odd but there seem to be pockets of work. On a job site yesterday I was talking with the owner of the company doing the structural steel and he told me that they are flat out and are hiring. Someone else (a contractor) was telling me that he just rented his tenant space to a residential landscape designer who can't keep up with the work either.
xaia....that's what i've heard through the grapevine amongst other things. I hope it doesn't happen - I don't want the company...prefer my former co-workers are nose to the grindstone, heck I wish I was beside them still.
tidal....i hope it's not, hope it's just a rumor. the L/O there usually take place on a wed/thurs...if this week, then it would be TODAY, probably starting before or after lunch. i had heard a few weeks back that there was going to be one in july but it was put on hold. then heard another was coming soon - could this be that one? dunno
the healthcare groups have taken a beating - my theory is not getting three h/c projects, one of which everyone thought they'd get, but didn't. there is a linkedIN group of ex-employees, it's up to 123 members and growing...
blackflag, it's not a rumor - it already went down, started tuesday.
contact of mine from the dallas office called to see if my firm was hiring, looking for leads. his specialty is "education", so hopefully he'll find something soon. he just bought a new car - i don't know why he did that given this economy but he he did.
I'm not a huge fan of linked-in. Have an account but that's about it. Lately I've been getting more and more requests from people to add me to their network. All people that I've worked with in some manner or another that have been laid off. Not surprisingly my network is growing by leaps and bounds.
that sucks to here about your contact - as for the new car, i HAD to buy one in january, my old one was dying and i assumed i was safe, an associate, licensed with 15 years experience....now if he's just buying for the sake of buying, that's just madness!
ralph hawkins, head of hks was on kera (pbs affiliate in D/FW) about 2-3 weeks ago. during the segment he stated that when he took over in 00 or 01 there were 450 @ hks in about 12 offices. they peaked @ 1450 last year before the great dip. i've heard it's been cut in half by now, if not the last layoff in june....
Blackflag, it seems like HKS has a pretty crappy business model for the outstanding work they do. I mean I've always known HKS to be in pretty stable markets such as government, state, healthcare, sports, and such. I can't imagine why they have had this much trouble. I know quite a few people in Richmond who were laid off in the various rounds.
Antisthenes, that percentage is really not possible. However there are firms that have folded by more than a half: I know SOM, Gensler, and HKS as the major firms. But I also know of a lot of smaller firms that contracted by more than 50%.
I don't know where the "fail" lies with the business model at HKS. I'm not giving out "secret" or "insider" info...HKS drafts a strategic plan every year that is not just for the year ahead but YEARS in the future. A lot of major corporations do this, it's not innovative, just damn smart. Being a former member of the empire, the only bad thing was possibly the newly acquired "overhead" from the several firms bought out across the nation in the last few years.
Layoffs....layoffs......
martini+1: HKS buying Hill/Glazier was one of the few smart firm acquisitions the home office in Dallas made. H/G was/is a powerful entity. Not knocking the other firms acquired in the last few years, but I ponder how all involved would have faired this downturn if not for overhead and titles.
file: Very interesting find. Arch firms have reduced their payrolls by 14%, yet in general payrolls have been reduced by 4.3% - that's some disparity. I am curious if another sector, i.e. engineering, accounting, etc. have higher reduction in payrolls. I know architects who've gone to a "4-day" work week and taken 20% paycuts.
add me to the tally. Freshly unemployed!
I guage the economy by Architecture Want Adds posted in the Sunday NYT.....and it has been bleak compaired to a year ago. There have been few sparks....but really dead in the water.
Good news is I met with a client whom I have done work with in the past and well they are thinking long range and want to spend some money planning....so this is a good sign. He is one of the most conservative people I know and well he must be weathering the storm or he would not be talking to me.
This discussion inspired me to join. A good friend of mine got laid off at HKS last month. Incredibly talented individual. I have been observing the firm for a while as I know many people who work(ed) there.
My opinion is that HKS, as a top international firm, is finished.
1. Greed.
Top level compensation is based largely on bonuses. So the faster you grow and absorb other firms the more profits you make. Absolutely no consideration was made to the "workhorse" employees if, lets say, the economy soured.
The similarities of the business structure of this firm and the American sub-prime mortgage debacle are striking. Like Countrywide and Wachovia - HKS created a bubble for itself that was unsustainable.
2. The brand is tarnished
Its roster has been depleted 50% since the downturn began. When a firm lays off half of its employees in less than 1 year it show incompetence in management. Perhaps if management paid more attention to economics and industry cycles then distributing out "best places to work" forms they would be in a better place. (Funny they still received the best place to work in DF/W award while they were slashing payrolls) What a twisted ego to pursue such things.
3.Nepotism
HKS has always been famous for office politics. But in this economy you must place the health of your firm above such frivolous things. HKS, of course, is not. While they are shedding some of the most talented people in the industry they are retaining vast amounts of mediocrity simply because they are related to or otherwise associated to someone in upper management. If the new HKS that emerges from this recession wishes to re-build itself on a foundation of sand, then so be it. On the other end, I know of a few firms that are preparing for an upturn by actively reaching out to former HKS employees. This level of experience and talent normally is not available to them.
4. New signature projects? Any?
The W hotel, Colts Stadium, and Cowboys Stadium... Whats next?
It has been years since HKS landed these projects. What major project has the firm brought in that is actually being built and will create buzz in the industry? I have yet to hear anything (and I doubt we will for some time).
Lucas Oil Stadium aka Colts Stadium has all the grace of zeppelin hangar.
Firmcom, SOM has been doing the same thing as HKS since it was founded -- that's just who they are! So don't count them out! They have their clientelle and their niche market with healthcare, sports, and comercial. As a matter of fact, in the last recession, HKS hemhoraged quite a bit of jobs. It's been a hire-fire firm for a long time.
BlueGoose, I have long thought that you seem to be an exception to the rule of architecture principals / upper management, for what it's worth. You sound reasonable, level-headed, and as though you put the good of the firm first (over personal good, for example, or short-term good). Question for you : are you a sole proprietorship, or do you have partners? I get the feel it's the latter, am I right?
Just curious.
firmcom: You hit the nail on the head. It sounds like your friend was from the Dallas office. Lots of great people "lost" - but not just at HKS, lots of firms across the globe. Tell your friend there is a linkedIn group of ex-hks employees - the ranks grow. I have mixed feelings about management at HKS. What sucks is that they've prided themselves on diverse project types and would insure the firm that we'd always have work. Of course with the global economy in the tank, how can you shuffle commercial people into the hospitality game or healthcare? Before late 08, the last time there were layoffs was post 9/11/01 (maybe 20 people total). The nepotism is a tough thing. When it's a "mom-pop" / sole proprietorship, the boss keeping his relatives is one thing, but for a firm gunning for "tier one" status in the architectural world, it dilutes their efforts. I hope the ship is righted soon - too many friends are in my shoes and it's not good company for any of us to be in at the moment.
dots and dashes- you mentioned you were freshly unemployed... where are you located?
as far as HKS and SOM... you can add many other "initial" firms which fit the same profile. what might happen to HKS is what happened to RTKL... they get bought by some international environmental/engineering/civil firm - like in RTKL's instance, ARCADIS.
someone above compared financial firms to architecture firms ... and the same thing will happen to US firms that happened to banks- they'll get bought by some foreign firm- and then we'll all be too big to fail, right?
Oh, except we're architects, not $$$ advisors worth billions... and nobody gives a rat's ass...
: yes - I have several partners - some founders / some second generation. we are far from perfect and, based on firmcom's post above we're probably "incompetent" since we're also down about 50% since a year ago.
these are genuinely hard times -- the hardest I've seen in my 30+ years in the profession. contraction in times like these doesn't indicate either a lack of vision or ability. survival does, IMHO, convey a certain connection to the marketplace and some competence in managing difficult circumstances.
when there is little to no work, survival generally means staff reductions in our profession. those are incredibly painful for everybody, but more so for those who lose their jobs. I don't much enjoy owning a firm when these conditions exist.
Bad times are bad times -- it is what it is. Kudos to you for staying afloat, BlueGoose. The reason I ask is because I am keenly interested in matters of management as I hope to own my own firm some day and am hoping, frankly, to create a firm that people want to work for, and a firm that is vastly different than many of those I have worked for myself. Not sure yet how to go about doing that, but I'm in the process of forming some ideas... in any case, I find your comments interesting, although as I said I think (in my experience) your attitude might put you in the minority of arch. managers.
: you are very kind in your comments. In my experience, the values you notice are not that rare - I know many principals, in our area and beyond, who care about their staff and act accordingly. But, I also know many who don't.
I'm not sure what accounts for the difference. Certainly regional cultural characteristics are a factor. I tend to think it has more to do with the type of person who goes into architecture. There's a fairly high percentage of self-absorbed individuals who don't care much about, or see the value in, strong personal relationships. Combine this with a lack of business acumen and you don't really have a great foundation for building, and sustaining, a strong firm.
Can anyone name a firm that hasn't laid off at all? Or a firm who has had limited layoffs?
I know of some firms that have gone to 4 day work weeks and paycuts across the board, top to bottom.
Those of us that have been laid off, may have resentment. But firms don't generate their work - must have clients. When banks don't loan moneys, developers' "dreams" don't even get to the drawing board.
Yes, hard feelings to a degree - I could lose my home - a home to a wife and two kids. But what about the recent grad, trying to get started? Getting no where? Or the more experienced architect / designer who is just trying to get to retirement? I see it as a cross-section of people with varied experience. It stinks. Hang in there!
blackflag - I know of a couple very small firms local to me that haven't laid anyone off, but they are all firms under 10 people. Once their one or two active jobs are finished with nothing new in the hopper they could be at zero staff in short order.
One fault I do find with management at the larger firms like HKS, etc. is that they haven't been good at breaking down the autonomy of their different studios, i.e. layoffs have appeared very reactionary based solely on how much work each individual/studio has and not so much on the skills and merits of each individual employee. I have not personally seen a strong effort to keep the BEST employees regardless of how busy they may be at the current time.
The principal level answer I've been given about this is because it's hard to move staff to different project types. Why a 50 person offices can move staff around so easily while a 200 person office cannot just boggles me.
I do not buy the notion that you cannot move production staff between project types. Actually I think it's ideal to move staff around even in good times. It leads to more flexible staff planning and also keeps your staff more diverse in marketable skills. Over time this leads to reduction in downtime and/or overtime expenses and much expanded ability to serve clients. You can also acheive qualitative benefits of more inter-office transparency, increased morale, etc.
I've seen firms lay off entire studios because of lacking work. None of the talent was retained for a future pick up in the economy. Wouldn't management rather have a workforce with broad based experience over potentially having to rehire and train an entire studio at great expense?
blackflag - we're at 6 people but had to let one person go last february (well, technically, they resigned but we gave them about 3 months of advance warning the work just wasn't there and that they needed to do whatever they needed to do to find something more secure. luckily they were able to get a much higher paying government job).
small firms are generally going to be in a little better shape than the larger firms in this. payroll for 6-7 people every two weeks can be done, while payroll for 50 or 200, if the work isn't there, is impossible.
how those firms are deciding who to cut is another story. one of the large (250+) offices here in town we heard first hand that they basically have a 'list' that was developed after performance reviews last year, which ranks employees from 1-250, based on their relative 'value'. when they had to make cuts earlier this year, they figured out the number and then just took the first 50 from the bottom. now, that's not the way i'd do it, but that's one way i suppose...
Did you guys read that Gehry's staff has been reduced by around 50%? It was on the latest architectural record.
I suppose I can understand when clients need to save and either have to VE everything or use an architect with much lower fees.
med - I had read that - shocking but having come from HKS; I knew of one of Gehry's big projects that was put "on hold" back in late 08 and we had to shuffle staff.
aqua & outed - thanks for the feedback. I agree with the sentiment that firms of the size of HKS should be able to move staff around better from project type to project type. The healthcare type is a hard nut to crack - for those that are in it, don't get rid of the goose that lays the golden egg. I too have heard of some firms in Dallas doing multi-family that are running on vapors - projects are in CA and it won't last.
i completely disagree with this. clients work closely with project architects and design staff. they grow to rely on and trust these individuals. if you are continually shuffling staff, you degrade these relationships. often times clients are confused and frustrated by staff changes, let alone frequent staff changes.
additionally shuffling staff assignments means that you have to teach fresh eyes an entire project history. large projects take years to evolve. if a decision was made two years ago, you want to have people on your team that were present when that decision was made. the idea of being "nimble" is a good one, but it only works within certain contexts. the key for a good project manager is to know when to be nimble and when to be consistent.
jafidler - I think you mis-understood me. By no means would I condone shuffling staff mid-project, unless you were ridding a project of a underperforming member. And the PA/PM's that have close working relationship with repeat clients shouldn't be replaced, or moved, away from that client on a regular basis. What my gripe is that production staff that isn't management should get some broad based exposure. The "teaching" does cost some money in terms of efficiency but give greater flexibility in getting the most productive staff where they are needed. In a downturn you can eliminate the under performers without worry of the expense of moving someone over from a different team. Clearly the larger firms are going to have issues when the economy rebounds as many have let go of top staff while retaining some of their lesser staff. This should never happen, no matter what the size of the firm is.
We shuffle around our staff between studios quite a bit. We're a pretty stealthy group -- we only have about 15 production-level people, a slew of principals and senior associates, and a handfull of PMs. So we don't have an enormously unweildy staff to constantly feed work. We get slow at times but we get swamped REALLY quickly. People here are pretty good about keeping people busy with just about anything. They want to teach all of us youngins every possible thing so we can be very versatile when we are needed suddenly. Another thing is that all our studios are traditionally niche markets such as justice, federal and state, military, university, and science and technology. We don't do any mix-use, retail, hospitality, comerical, or residential and I think that's why we've been able to come this far.
I will say that we are very top heavy! However the senior people all have extremely impressive credentials and capabilities. Not to mention they are paid to make it rain and they've done a good job at that so far.
At the risk of perpetuating 'gloom and doom' I thought this AIA article might be of some interest among the readers of this thread:
Steep Downturns in Nonresidential Construction Projected Through 2010
If nothing else, this information might help readers understand the relative prospects of various sectors of the industry and the possible timing of recovery.
Good luck to us all.
So what is really happening out there? This thread seems to be dying. Lately everyone is posting articles or giving there opinions on other threads. Has anyone noticed that no one has submitted info on any firms laying of recently. Only heard that P+W laid off 9-10 people about a month ago. Apart from that nothing else. They aren't laying off like Oct 08 - Mar 09. So maybe the layoffs are slowing down for now. Work doesn't seem particularly great with lots of work but things are popping up. Ran into a recent grad of arch school the other day working at whole foods. Said that he hasn't been able to find anything and is going home in Sep. when his lease is up. Another grad said that out of 100 undergrad plus grad students that recently graduated only 2 found jobs another 15 had been working as interns while at school and just got absorbed full time. I really feel for them, but it wasn't that much better when I got out of school.
the big layoffs have somewhat subsided though firms are still skeptical about hiring. some people are probably just sick of this thread (or taking a break from it) and just attempting to divert attention to more positive things where possible.
i have a few friends who were recently hired - competition is fierce. you've gotta have the right smile and perfect personality to go with your license and LEED AP certification. you blink funny during any of the multiple interviews and the interviewer continue's considering the other 100 people knocking on their door.
3rd quarter of the year is coming up, folks who are still employed are wondering what's around the corner.
hold your breath.
I'm still unemployed in architecture. going on 15 months in cites on both coasts. yippee. I'm starting to think my IDP window may be in jeopardy now. not only the pressure of getting a job with a swiss cheese resume, keeping it, but cramming in idp within time too. it just keeps getting better.
Overall I have not seen any increases in hiring where I am (Portland, or). everybody is still hurting.
i am pretty sure ncarb will be forced to conceed any timelines in the present economic environment are asinine. especially since it's such a racket.
PA didn't pay 1/2 of it's state workers that is a layoff today
There are still layoffs happening out there. Most of my friends in the buiz work for mid to smaller sized firms so the names wouldn't mean much but they are still shedding jobs. Know of firms cutting people within the last month in Houston, Dallas, Chicago, Minneapolis, Denver and Kansas City....and that's just from the old classmates and friends I keep in touch with.
What I've noticed is what little work is coming in isn't the same scale of the work we were doing a year or two ago. Small projects that really don't justify the already reduced staff we have. People get really nervous around the begining of a new month. Things are tense to say the least.
Almost on a weekly basis I try contacting a consulting engineer or contractor or developer only to find that they no longer are employed. This downturn is sweeping across the whole spectrum of the industry, however it sounds like Architects are taking a particular beating.
A couple weeks ago several old friends and I got together over a few beers and brainstormed on "alternative careers" since we were all either unemployed already or on reduced hours. One friend's employer showed him the stack of resumes they've received within the past year. There were over 1000 of them. He's been studying them trying to get his own resume looking unique. Still, that's hopeful thinking in this market.
I alone recieve about five resumes a week from other friends and former colleages. I cannot imagine what the volume of resumes some of the big wigs are getting!
I've still been hearing about layoffs here and there around the city. The main reason you're not hearing about things being as bad as they were int he fall and winter is because most firms right now including the large corporate ones are operating with skelleton staffs. A lot of these firms still have a lot of work to get finished but with significantly reduced staff. So as much as they'd love to reduce their payrolls, they still have to get this work out the door! I know other people who are still employed and are making 20k less than they were a year ago and are ready to walk out the door if there is even one more paycut.
Oh and my firm just had layoff a couple weeks ago -- our first round believe it or not! It was small compared to the others I've heard. However since we are AE it affected engineers, architects, and CAD draftspeople.
Just so you guys know, a lot of our consultants have shed jobs in huge numbers as well. For example, one of the big name engineering firms in the city, reduced their staff by over 50% recently.
On the plus side, I've heard of people getting hired here and there!
Also take in to mind that some of the large firms hire college students for the summer. I always assumed these summer interns were making minimum wage or slightly better. Once they go back to school, who knows what the firms will do. I applied for a job a few weeks back and actually got a call for an interview. Basically I'd be switching sides of the table and becoming an owner's rep. I was told that there were 70 applicants for the position alone.
Also a tip for some of you that may have not updated your portfolio since graduating college...IF you have professional experience, by all means DOCUMENT it! If you're from my early Gen_X generation, the cut and paste route doesn't work these days. Make it like a brochure - in other words clean, crisp and eye candy. Don't fudge about what you've done, honesty is the best policy. I had some critique my folio and it was harsh but honest opinions that I valued and have since implemented. Good luck!
being a full-time academia worker now,
imho, during these restructing periods, big or small sharks made very quick decisions and laid off many talented, fast, highly skilled people...thats a fact.
to be fair, things are still slow and no recovery, might be the -plus- reason, whoever left ,quite slow too ? :)
At my last office they were far too eratic and fired waaaaay to many people. Now they are scrambling to staff projects but everyone is peacing out because they are working 12-hour days with a significantly truncated salary.
And just from my observation deck, there are layoffs still happening but people are also hiring. Even firms that aren't advertising positions are taking people in.
healthcare in d/fw seems to be where the jobs are in architecture. only problem is you need h/c experience.
I'm back in architecture after leaving for 5 months for a CM job and I'm hearing less and less about layoffs. A few local firms are going flat out on stimulus projects but most are just limping along. My office is at 50% and we are holding on to about 2 months of work so those of us still here are not feeling very comfortable (in fact we have all.
It's odd but there seem to be pockets of work. On a job site yesterday I was talking with the owner of the company doing the structural steel and he told me that they are flat out and are hiring. Someone else (a contractor) was telling me that he just rented his tenant space to a residential landscape designer who can't keep up with the work either.
I keep watching that DOW rise - it gives me hope.
Word on the street is that WATG closed their Orlando office. Can anyone confirm?
blackflag,
heard your firm is going through another round this week.
xaia....that's what i've heard through the grapevine amongst other things. I hope it doesn't happen - I don't want the company...prefer my former co-workers are nose to the grindstone, heck I wish I was beside them still.
blackflag- another one? is it going to be as big as they have been???
tidal....i hope it's not, hope it's just a rumor. the L/O there usually take place on a wed/thurs...if this week, then it would be TODAY, probably starting before or after lunch. i had heard a few weeks back that there was going to be one in july but it was put on hold. then heard another was coming soon - could this be that one? dunno
the healthcare groups have taken a beating - my theory is not getting three h/c projects, one of which everyone thought they'd get, but didn't. there is a linkedIN group of ex-employees, it's up to 123 members and growing...
where i was laid off the head honcho on the retail side.
blackflag, it's not a rumor - it already went down, started tuesday.
contact of mine from the dallas office called to see if my firm was hiring, looking for leads. his specialty is "education", so hopefully he'll find something soon. he just bought a new car - i don't know why he did that given this economy but he he did.
hopefully, there aren't many more.
I'm not a huge fan of linked-in. Have an account but that's about it. Lately I've been getting more and more requests from people to add me to their network. All people that I've worked with in some manner or another that have been laid off. Not surprisingly my network is growing by leaps and bounds.
hopefully it was via the cash for clunkers
Man..... How did HKS fold so badly? I can't imagine how many they're down to over there.
xaia:
that sucks to here about your contact - as for the new car, i HAD to buy one in january, my old one was dying and i assumed i was safe, an associate, licensed with 15 years experience....now if he's just buying for the sake of buying, that's just madness!
med.
ralph hawkins, head of hks was on kera (pbs affiliate in D/FW) about 2-3 weeks ago. during the segment he stated that when he took over in 00 or 01 there were 450 @ hks in about 12 offices. they peaked @ 1450 last year before the great dip. i've heard it's been cut in half by now, if not the last layoff in june....
http://video.kera.org/video/1201618684
i'm reading 77% of architects unemployed
Blackflag, it seems like HKS has a pretty crappy business model for the outstanding work they do. I mean I've always known HKS to be in pretty stable markets such as government, state, healthcare, sports, and such. I can't imagine why they have had this much trouble. I know quite a few people in Richmond who were laid off in the various rounds.
Antisthenes, that percentage is really not possible. However there are firms that have folded by more than a half: I know SOM, Gensler, and HKS as the major firms. But I also know of a lot of smaller firms that contracted by more than 50%.
med.
I don't know where the "fail" lies with the business model at HKS. I'm not giving out "secret" or "insider" info...HKS drafts a strategic plan every year that is not just for the year ahead but YEARS in the future. A lot of major corporations do this, it's not innovative, just damn smart. Being a former member of the empire, the only bad thing was possibly the newly acquired "overhead" from the several firms bought out across the nation in the last few years.
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