My boss was interviewed earlier in the year about how our firm was doing well in the down economy, and mentioning that we hadn't had to lay anyone off yet. Flash forward to March: 25% of the workforce was let go in a single swoop--including yours truly. I'm only mad becuase we had all been told that we were doing well. Now I know to never believe bullshit like this. No one is safe in this economy.
Weakest staff in a prefect world would be people whose skills and expertise are too redundant in an office. But in this world it could mean staff members with kids since kids get sick and cause people to miss work, any diabetics due to the huge burden they would place on an employee health care system. Also not as cynical would be the desire to bring an office into the REVIT fold. The cheapest way to do this might be to let go everyone who is not integral to a specific project or market and cherry pick from all of the available REVIT talent. The more software you know the better chances you have of surviving. Firms may decide it is cheaper to just switch out the old for the new instead of training existing employees. So if a machine shows up at work with software you don’t know I would do everything in your power to learn every thing on that computer and fast.
xaia: I know Rena and she's one of the most sensitive, caring people I know. You are reading her words incorrectly.
Naturally, if a firm is faced with staff reductions, they're going to retain their "best" staff - meaning those let go are the "weaker" members of the firm. It's a relative judgment and doesn't mean the ones let go were altogether weak.
Everyone offers a mix of attributes - firms retain the combination of attributes they believe will help them best meet the challenges that lie ahead.
Now let's get ready for the real ride and see what happens when commercial properties implode this summer, and maybe sooner. The European markets are overloaded with eastern European debt and will soon tank. Unemployment continues to rise. Underfunded pension plans become further underfunded.Taxes are going up, everywhere. Politicians are becoming increasingly creative in stealing our money. Just wait until GM and Chrysler go BK.
This is not a market in which to be an architect.
On the bright side funding for medical projects has picked up and, surprisingly, international work is up a tick too. Despite what you may have read about cutbacks, spending for military related projects continues. K-12 projects go on. Many are messy but, they help pay the rent.
It's not all doom and gloom. Armagedden has not arrived.
Politicians are becoming increasingly creative in stealing our money. Just wait until GM and Chrysler go BK
Try the banks! Citibank just raised interest rates on a lot of people while they have taken over $200 billion in our tax dollars to shore up their subprime adventures.
There's work out there. This will be my best year since 04.
well, the scene in Portland OR is still shit: link
350 workers off the project until 2010. developers, construction companies, design build. nobody is hiring.
and to wash dishes you apparently have to have a year of experience: link
Bank of America changed its overdraft policies, the fine is $39 and can be levied against you 10 times each day. This is great news for local small banks with good balance sheets. The Giants might be cutting themselves down at the knees. It is an attempt to raise funds because banks counted on penalty fees as a major part of their revenues. Small banks that offer reasonable fees, overdraft privilege, and customer service that is personalized might just start picking up depositors from the big guys.
Some people are worried about Somali Pirates when we might want to look out for the ones on the corners of major intersection in our cities and towns.
From my experience you can often time get overdraft fees cancelled if you have a good history with the bank and it was a one-time occurance. Happened to me once because a check was slow to clear and Wells Fargo cancelled the fee right away because over more than a decade of banking it was my first occurance. Also know a few people that had their bank accounts compromised and racked up fees due to fraud and the bank immediately cancelled all the fees.
While $39 does seem like a high fee do remember that it's something that is totally avoidable. Keep an eye on your balance. With modern online banking there should be no excuse for not knowing what your balance is.
Babs: "Naturally, if a firm is faced with staff reductions, they're going to retain their "best" staff - meaning those let go are the "weaker" members of the firm. "
I think this may be true at smaller firms, but at the big corporates this may or may not be the case anymore. In a recession as serious as this one the big firms will begin by letting go "weaker" staff as Rena seems to be saying, but for the most part we're now way beyond that point.
Three other strategies kick in after that point: strategic elimination of business lines in particular offices (like HOK essentially getting rid of urban design in NY) - in which case all staff in the targeted strategic area will go. Alternatively, the corporates may engage in the wholesale elimination of junior staff, requiring senior staff (or assets in other groups) to take over more production.. visualization specialists and the like tend to bear the brunt of these necessary measures (and, frankly, a lot of the corporates have a lot of fat, as non-client facing managers were allowed to build fiefdoms in richer times). Finally (and perhaps most commonly), the corporates will target for lay off anyone who simply isn't staffed on an active contract, including but limited to senior staff and even principals (perhaps especially principals) who are focusing on BD, building new businesses. We lost a healthcare head for exactly this reason.
Urbanist: I take your point and do understand that such strategies are being undertaken in dire circumstances such as we're experiencing now. However, back to xaia's point, I do think there's still a fairly high correlation between who a firm keeps and that person's overall capabilities. No firm that's paying any attention is going to eliminate really strong professionals and keep weaker performers, absent a sound business reason for doing so.
However, I do accept that if a firm were to say, eliminate their structural engineering department altogether, then some solid structural engineers in that department are going to lose their jobs, while perhaps some not so solid performers in another department might keep their jobs. That's not an apples-to-apples comparison -- I think xaia was looking at this issue more on an apples-to-apples basis.
Yes I'm part time package handler at Fed EX, but looking for work and building my skill set is 8-10 hours a day too. Thanks to the stimulus I have an extension in unemployment, so I can focus on the LEED AP exam and learn REVIT. Once that is done in May I hopefully will find a job in the field but probably earning much less than I was in 2007-2008 if not I will be homeless by January
As for temp / staffing agencies in architecture has anyone heard of or have an opinion on Archipro?
I hear you lookout kid. My friends were all duped at one firm about two weeks ago into thinking that there wouldnt be any layoffs at least for another 9 months -- sure enough that was a flat out lie an basically the entire production staff was cut. There are going to be some major losers after the dust finally settles from this ridiculous self-inflicted recession.
Many of our superiors tell us not to burn bridges but I think in this case many employers have actually burned their bridges with future employees. I mean we have heard some truly outrageous stories from pretty reputable firms. For example, my last office litterally treated laid off employees like they were deathrow inmates -- having building security and police escort them out -- even the women -- how humiliating is that shit? This forum has helped many people see some of the neanderthal business models that many architecture firms still practice. Hopefully in the end of the day many of them will be forced to change their habits or no will want to ever even consider them. Based on the testemonials of many on this forum, I now know a great many I'd never ever worked for -- that I'd rather starve than work for.
med: "My friends were all duped at one firm about two weeks ago into thinking that there wouldnt be any layoffs at least for another 9 months..."
Your irrational disdain for nearly all firm owners is damn near legendary here on Archinect. However, you perpetually fail to understand that this recession is unlike any we've ever seen before. The widespread suddenness with which seemingly solid projects disappear -- typically without any prior warning to the firm -- is without precedent.
The choice firms must make include a) not say anything at all to their staff about the future (leading to extreme nervousness among the staff); b) telling the staff what, in your best judgment, is likely to happen (running the risk that you may be wrong); or c) telling the staff what you think is likely to happen, but then put so many caveats on those statements that the staff goes away totally terrified about what's going to happen. None of these are good choices.
These are genuinely tough judgements to make and sometimes we don't get it entirely right. But, I ask you, what benefit does the firm gain by lying to, or trying to deceive, its staff about such matters. I just don't see how anybody benefits.
You need to lighten up or go work in another industry.
I was laid off in May 2008, I was disappointed but not angry at my boss who kept me in the loop as to what was going on. You have to ask questions and keep up to speed with current events business is a long complicated game of chess requiring you to think a few moves ahead.
I would prefer that an employer tell me the truth and that they don’t know what the future may hold but are doing everything the can to keep the firm together. When I was let go he laid it out that the banks would not finance the client’s projects and all other prospective clients are not in a position to start work for a long time. In other words it wasn’t me it was the economic circumstances. This is the ideal situation, but sometimes the leadership at a firm is not fully aware of their client’s financial status and in the interest of their clients try not to let on publicly that some client’s are in financial trouble. This is a difficult situation for everyone and I think is one of many causes for sudden and unexpected layoffs.
We are service providers dependent on clients for our work. We need to understand that clients will do what is their best interest which in many recent instances has been keeping mum about the financial viability of their projects up till the last minute. No one wants to invest in a sinking ship and many clients try to keep a poker face routine going as long as possible so as not to scare away investors and or clients of their own.
PJN26 - "We need to understand that clients will do what is their best interest which in many recent instances has been keeping mum about the financial viability of their projects up till the last minute."
Babs don't act so surprised by all this, there is nothing irrational about anything really. It's not our fault (and it's not your fault) -- but we seem to be suffering the most in all of this. Why is it any surprise to you that some of us younger people are comletely frustrated? We're the ones getting killed here! If that firm couldn't keep its staff they should have just told them up front that they need to start looking for other means of employment down the line. Blowing smoke up their asses is just misleading to the staff. Generally management of firms keep all their financial matters tightly sealed so we have no idea what happens or really what to do once the axe falls. Once you guys herd us into that room and tell us your "great news", have us escorted off the premises imediately like criminals and have an education-less HR person (who apparently has leagues better job security than we do) assure that all of our belongings will be mailed to us, what are we supposed to think???
We've seen what kind of scourndrels have come out of this economy and I'm sure every profession has been guilty in some fashion -- remember this is all self-inflicted. Why in the world would we want to trust corporate leaders after we have seen such unspeakable crimes using neanderthall 1950s business models as cover-ups?
Furthermore, this time around all of your mass layoffs have mostly affected one particular group -- the younger -- future generation of architects. Most of these people have not been able to find jobs ever since being laid off. You saw the result of what happened the last time you pulled this off in 1990-1991 -- an entire generation of architects were anhilated and never rejoined the profession (they weren't allowed to).
Again, one of my last firms axed 50 people all of which were 20-something high octane production/CAD/REVIT people. Even the senior associates and some of the other principals were simply enraged by these decisions. They even admitted that they have absolutely no way to produce if even one of their pending projects came back to life.
The even WORSE part about this and I know that this is going to happen is that when we're all out their applying for jobs once the economy gets better (and hopefully ALL of the white collar criminals are behind bars) many people will have large holes of unemployment on their resumes durring the 2008-2010 years. And I'm sure many people will judge people on that.
it's not just the young ones med. we all are hurting right now.
NYT just ran an article on how those over 45 may have lower unemployment rate but a higher proportion of their unemployed have been out of work for more than 6 month and historically, and a higher proportion of workers who lost their jobs in this age group earn less in new jobs.
med - once again, you seem to want to tar everybody with the same brush, regardless of the facts. you bring no balance whatsoever to your posts.
The simple fact is that the extreme behavior you describe is not the norm. Sure, there have been some bad examples shared here, but those are not typical stories -- they're just very painful and very visible. But, they're not typical.
These economic troubles are so widespread that the pain is much more vertical than you make it out to be. I know very good people at all levels in firms around the country who have lost their jobs -- including principals and office heads.
I'm not surprised by the frustration ... I accept that there are a lot of bad things happening out there. I'm just getting sick of your relentless belittling of the all the people who run firms when all you have to go on is your personal biases and anecdotal evidence told to you by a few friends.
I'm not a criminal nor do I handle difficult situations in my firm anywhere close to what you accuse us all of doing ... and I don't know any principals of design firms in my area or region who come even close to the kind of behavior you so love to smear us all with here on archinect.
Maybe where you live the world is very different than it is here. But I'm well connected to many communities around the country ... what you like to bitch about here simply doesn't correlate with the many sad, but humane, stories I know to be factual. You have no credibility on these matters -- you just like to complain. You're a sad, sad little person.
I missing something here? In order to live you need money. In order to get money we have to work. Our jobs are simply going away.
Why are you guys so surprised by our frustration? What many of you guys are saying is that it's okay for other people to bitch about other pointless bullshit but when our livelihoods are at stake, it's not okay?
having graduated in June 2006, I have now officially been unemployed more months than employed. its hard to think that some people I graduated with are taking the tests and knocking on the door of getting their license and there is a good chance I wont even be able to get my IDP done within my window of time. right now I'm working on a 9 month stint of being unemployed. granted I have been doing other things, but largely not too much architecture related.
I don't feel terrible about it, I've been working hard to keep up with local AIA events and making calls to people and just staying generally aware of the architecture scene. It'll just take time. and when anyone interviewing me asks what happened during all these months I'll just tell them. what can you do? eventually something will break and things will start to roll again. I'm not completely disenfranchised with the profession yet so i'm trying to do my best doing what I can. and anyone who have been laid off knows what thats all about.
as with most things the more positive attitude you have the better things will be. if you write a cover letter to a company and are pissed off and feeling butt hurt and blaze right through it they will know. somehow, something will come out of this and in the end I hope I'll be better off. its like a life test, ya know?
I fail to understand the rancour here and in the other layoff threads, and why there needs to be such a staff vs. management mentality. Virtually all firms in our industry are under stress now. Some of them are coping relatively well, some, perhaps those poorly managed to begin with, are doing much worse. I don't think anyone here will deny that both types of firms exist and that both Babs and med. are right.
To say that one thing is all one way or all another way is patently false. There are firms that have managed receivables and payables well enough to provide themselves some flexiblity in these difficult times, which have consistently treated their employees fairly and which have exhibited a high degree of transparency in their financial and human resources behavior. There are other firms that have consistently failed to pay their employees and even their subcontractors, that are reeling from years of mismanagement, and where the principals can't seem to find their insurance certificates and license documents, much less their P&Ls on any given day. These two extremes are not equal in their ability to weather a financial firestorm, and there are all shades in between.
Babs, You are right on!
Thanks for trying with med. Alas, I agree with outed that he may be a lost cause. He's a couple of years out of school and knows absolutely everything--so what good are all your years of inside experience? All your years of work have just made you into another one of those meanies—those evil, ignorant registered architects out to fool, abuse, and deliberately torture young interns! Babs, I’ll bet you are green and have warts on your nose. You don’t even seem to acknowledge that you owe him something just because he exists!! He just loves to bitch and doesn't want to ever stop bitching. It is poisoning him but he can't stop. My guess is that his behaving like an entitled, spoiled, immature, bitter little brat is nothing new. I could call up one of my friends who teaches at VT and figure out exactly who he is, because that bad attitude cannot be anything new. Heaven help us if he actually gets laid off!
He and Joe must be about the same age and Joe shows so much more maturity, wisdom, and life skills. It’s amazing how far a good attitude can get you. There is a lot more to being a successful architect than just technical skills and design talent. Architects have to get work, keep work, execute work, and finish work. Most of those steps involve ‘working well with others.’ Most of our young interns do well, try hard, and bring value to our firm. We respect and value those people. They are our future.
I don’t know anyone who has ever enjoyed laying off an employee—even those few who frustrated and disappointed us. In this difficult time, when clients stop jobs or worse—keep them going well beyond their capability to pay for them—there are difficult choices to make. Yes, interns are sometimes let go first, because we have less invested in them. We have spent time, money, and effort on our more experienced employees. (When med earns some seniority, he will think it is unfair that those with his level of experience are let go.) On the other hand, sometimes we keep the younger, cheaper people who we see as having great potential. Sometimes, we keep a person for personal reasons. In the hard time after 9-11, we kept an under-performing young designer simply because he had lost a close relative that tragic day. That may have been unfair to others, but it seemed the most humane thing to do at the time. Some firms just come up with a policy, like last hired-first fired, and stick to it so they don’t have to make personal decisions. There is no good and fair way to reduce a staff of talented, hard-working human beings.
There are humane ways to handle the actual layoff, but that is difficult too, because word spreads fast, people wait, worrying and gossiping. I think any firm that uses the insensitive methods complained about in these threads has probably experienced an unpleasant incident in the past. Back in the old days, one of my co-workers who had been laid off came back with a weapon and frightened everyone with his rage. I am now very sensitive to the security of the office in a stressful situation. Another time in an engineer friend’s office, an employee came back and started throwing plans out the window and tossing drafting tables. If you consider those incidents, the right or wrong of the situation is no longer so clear.
As to knowing the financial situation of a firm and communicating it—well, it can change in an instant these days. A big job goes on hold, a client stops paying or declares bankruptcy, the bank changes its terms… The rules have all changed.
Yes, there are some jerks in this profession, but the majority of us are good people with good intentions. Maligning the entire management level of architects is irresponsible and wrong.
Woah. I think you are getting a little carried away here, CM. And I think that the two of you have me completely misunderstood. My venting really has nothing to do with who I am and how I act professionally. I only vent the way I do because I've seen all the testemonials and people's deteriorating financial situations because of layoffs -- I guess it just makes me and many people my same age feel kind of helpless and hopeless in many ways.
My intention is not to malign the entire management level and if I am making it sound like that I do appologize -- really. I've praised the leadership at past and present firms on many occasions. I think the current firm I work at has outstanding management. And yes, we HAVE had layoffs. Same applies for my last firm -- the management and senior level staff were also some of the most outstanding group of professionals I've ever met. When they contracted (on many occasions), they handled it as well as it could be handled.
As for your acusations of what I might do if I get laid off -- aside from that being absolutely ridiculous -- I think it's also pretty presumptive and not very helpful. I've already thought about it since the summer and if the axe does indeed fall and I'm a victim, oh well. Obviously I'd be disapointed and a little upset, but I'd move on rather quickly and figure out something else for a while. I just get frustrated because I really love the profession and don't want to leave it. I would be worried that future employers would judge me based on a gap in employment and I'd be worried about losing touch and getting rusty at production work. I am learning so much right now and love learning and I just think that would be a real shame if that suddenly stopped and I was forced to learn something entirely different. I mean none of us have any idea how long this thing will last. I have good friends who have been out of a job for eight months since getting laid off -- I can't even imagine how they feel.
So anyway. I've said my piece, and you guys have said yours. Despite the way I sound I have tremendous respect for my superiors. And I really do value and appreciate your opinions as well -- I trully mean it. It's good to hear your perspectives and testemonials about some of your experiences as well. I know my place in the profession and know that I have a lot to learn on every level. I'm sure that in the future I will reflect back on these times (they way my superiors reflect back on the early 90s) and I will have a completely different outslook. In the end of the day, my mission to work the best I can and produce the best quality of work that I can. And if things get ugly down the road and I get cut, then at least I know that I've done the very best I could.
I hope the AIA and NCARB collect data on layoffs and report that back to schools, it might be useful in some instances to identify programs, or periods of time within a program, that produced interns and architects that, somehow, were more likely to be laid off during this down turn. Information is important and sometimes I get the impression that academia often moves without much regard for the profession or it’s students / future alumni. Maybe if a school realized that the employee retention rate plummeted after a specific drafting class was phased out, or jumped when a new instructor started teaching a finance elective could help guide some institutions in a direction that is most beneficial for everyone.
I think the lack of knowledge of workflow and the importance of billable hours in many interns is disturbing and points to a major deficiency or egregious omission in architectural education.
Maybe the solution would be some sort of NCARB NAAB exit exam before your M Arch or B Arch is certified.
med: nice thoughtful post ... thanks for clarifying your actual views.
in a forum of this sort we can only react to the words you write. we can't see your facial expressions; we can't read your body language; we don't know much of your background or your cultural heritage or your personal situation.
your words become "you" ... that is the "you" to which we react.
I would say it was just shy of a serious threat to invade my privacy and rights and use it as a tool to "blacklist" me in some kind of way. I'm sure people know the legal implications of such threats -- especially when I've done nothing wrong but express my opinions that CM happened to disagree with. I did no harm, I didn't threarten harm in any way, and I never even alluded to harm.
A short time ago HKS let 130 people go. This was company-wide and included a small number of titled personnel. It is rumored there will be another lay-off of about 100 before July
We are all architects here right? we need to band together, not split due to rank issues.
At the firm I worked at for over 2 years, I too, was laid off in a similar situation:
The pregnant lady who kept the boss updated on her pregnancy was one out of 85 people to stay.
The woman who just had a child and was working part-time and from home was another that got to stay.
The part-time renderer was let go when they overloaded him for 3 months to "finish up" all renderings
My senior project manager was let go because he disagreed with the construction manager/client -so it solved the problem between firm and client right there.
At least 20 junior and senior production/technical staff were let go, in no particular order.
At least 20 interior designers were let go.
Mostly who they kept in the beginning of the layoffs were people that they hired for less money to begin with, because the firm sponsors foreign people who are on work visas. They kept a lot of interns and fresh out of college kids as well, probably because of payroll constraints.
As time went on and the economy didn't improve, no one was safe. Every employee was a possible layoff then. One senior partner worked closely with every project manager for a month, then fired them all and took over all their responsibilities.
There are sneaky things like that going on, but I guess they can't alarm the office too much and make chaos by stating the truth.
Anyone with bad blood in the office, and people who make high salaries and their work can be absorbed and loaded onto another senior will be the first to be laid off, in my opinion. After that, they review the value and skill of the others and layoff accordingly.
That firm I was at started small, and grew to almost a hundred employees.
They hit hard times and had to cut jobs. Its a fact of life.
The problem is that they say, "We are back to our core people" "We are 'right-sizing' "and all these other fancy corporate buzzwords in order to make it sound more humane.
I agree that employers should just be honest about it. Explain that clients were not paying bills, explain how there are projects on hold because of whatever reasons.
A few months before the layoffs, they clearly stated in a companywide meeting:
"The housing market is turning for the worse"
(the firm's work was 85 % housing projects)
"Even if we do not get any new work , we will have enough work to go around this office for the next 3 years"
"Your jobs are safe."
"We are unaffected by this economy"
Then, there was an emergency meeting 3 months later, and layoffs began...
I still heard those promises in my head as I picked up my severance pay and packed my desk into boxes. I guess I am glad that I even got anything.
Worse is when they get a new job, and it involves a 6 bedroom 6 bath apartment in manhattan. Can anyone even afford that right now?
Everyone does what they can to survive, white lies aim to preserve feelings, but they obscure the truth and truthworthiness as well.
I can understand that custom residential is in a slum as credit is scarce and even the most flush amongst us don’t have the cash for a major renovation or new weekend retreat, but I have noticed that two types of firms seem to be adding staff right now 1 Education particularly K-12, and 2 corrections. I am not sure if this is a fluke or if it is part of the stimulus finally hitting the pavement. I’m excited about the prospect of schools being built but I am concerned about corrections work, but I suppose even prisons need to be designed to be more humane and environmentally benign. However, if someone asks me to design a solar powered execution chamber and make it LEED certified I might have to take a pass.
Someone on this discussion board had mentioned that in recessions hotels often undergo major upgrades, is this the case, does anyone know of this happening?
Someone on this discussion board had mentioned that in recessions hotels often undergo major upgrades, is this the case, does anyone know of this happening?
I've heard that as well. Know that WATG was adding people back after the 9/11 hiccup while others were laying off. On a recent trip to Miami the hotels were near ghost towns. Heard similar of Vegas. If the Hiltons and Marriott's are sucking it hard I can't imagine they'll be spending too much, but what do I know?
Nobody I know has seen one cent of stimulus work hit the boards yet. From what I hear the K-12 is technology work, not new buildings. Great if you are a low voltage engineer. So much K-12 funding is dependant on the local tax payers passing bonds, etc. Can't imagine that'll be an easy prospect with the current economy. Worked in that field for many years and hated the live or die by the voters will part of it. Layoffs in the fall after election day were not uncommon.
Gov't work at the federal level is about the only thing I've heard of that's still coming in the door, at least for projects of any size. Problem with that is is a huge game of who you know and a very antiquated process of architects bidding for the work. Most firms can't really turn on a dime and get into that game. Just got to batten the hatches and ride this out with loyal clients that can afford to feed us scraps.
PJN26 - In regards to hotel work... it's not so much the 3 + 4 star hotels that get the major upgrades and renovations but the 5 star and up resorts that are getting planned. From what we've seen everyone is willing to plan until their eyeballs bleed but they can't get any further than planning because of financing issues. However, a while back I mentioned I was on a project that was 100% financed but it was the foreign government unwilling to spend any money on infrastructure to supply the resort with electricity/water/roads/etc because the rest of the country is suffering. So the project was canceled, the client closed their offices in that area, and have moved on. So either way it's still bad- whether it's lack of financing, or the money hasn't actually gotten to the government, or the government is so scared they aren't willing to spend any for these types of projects.
hmmm...one fine day in december, the principal in charge of my studio invited us all to his brand new mansion for a party two weeks before he layed off a bunch of us... (4th round layoffs?) he also had bought a brand new car and was going to many business golf tournament things and trips to resorts. he also lost plenty of projects for us when times were good. actually he wasn't even really supposed to be a principal because of his old age but somehow he convinced the ceo. another principal sharing the studio was fired because he was too young and then we lost the projects he was working on... then the principal started directly instructing us how to detail the building in outdated building techniques near the end... finally the issue of my age kept coming up with him personally while at the same time my managers were praising my expertise compared to my age. he also took issue with me riding a bike to work.
the leaders with integrity were all layed off before this guy. it's creeps like this that seem to be left at the controls... greedy, narcissitic bastards.....
i was actually told i was "safe" the week before i was layed off. then, the day before i was layed off the boss acted so nice to me! but then when they called me into "the meeting" he had his nose up in the air and wouldn't even look me in the eye. the ceo, whom i don't know well, talked to me and explained everything.
thats enough reason for me to find fault with management, thanks.
Bloodclot, I'm sorry you had to experience this. Sounds like quite a buffoon. Why would anyone have issue with people riding their bikes to school?
Sadly, I've heard many gut wrenching stories similar to this -- of course with many of the posters defending those kinds of actions. I know that at one firm here, the management people made a promise to everyone that their jobs were safe for at least another year but ended up laying 20% of them off and giving the rest 20% pay cuts only a month later. So we all know what a steaming crock of shit it is when people say our jobs are "safe."
med. - I know there are firms that don't handle transparency about layoffs very well but your view sounds very jaded.
I've been in meetings where principals have said With these cuts we hope to ride this out through the end of the year Emphasis added because, several weeks later there was another layoff. Simply put, projects didn't come to fruition and more cuts were needed ~ hope wasn't enough.
Unfortunately those that got cut don't remember the simple hope caveat, they only feel blindsided and angry and either choose to partially remember or simply forgot there was no promise of full employment to that arbritary time.
We can argue about who is getting hardest hit by the layoffs, but in this day and age, take anything your told with a grain of salt, including what your principal says about your employment.
Layoffs....layoffs......
I'm pretty sure Rena has a clue.
I think you misread the intent of the statement.
I can't imagine anyone laying people off on Good Friday....so guess we might have a Black Monday this week.
My boss was interviewed earlier in the year about how our firm was doing well in the down economy, and mentioning that we hadn't had to lay anyone off yet. Flash forward to March: 25% of the workforce was let go in a single swoop--including yours truly. I'm only mad becuase we had all been told that we were doing well. Now I know to never believe bullshit like this. No one is safe in this economy.
xaia, that was pretty insensitive. Sometimes they just have too many staff of one type--or you are just unlucky about what happens to your project.
Weakest staff in a prefect world would be people whose skills and expertise are too redundant in an office. But in this world it could mean staff members with kids since kids get sick and cause people to miss work, any diabetics due to the huge burden they would place on an employee health care system. Also not as cynical would be the desire to bring an office into the REVIT fold. The cheapest way to do this might be to let go everyone who is not integral to a specific project or market and cherry pick from all of the available REVIT talent. The more software you know the better chances you have of surviving. Firms may decide it is cheaper to just switch out the old for the new instead of training existing employees. So if a machine shows up at work with software you don’t know I would do everything in your power to learn every thing on that computer and fast.
xaia: I know Rena and she's one of the most sensitive, caring people I know. You are reading her words incorrectly.
Naturally, if a firm is faced with staff reductions, they're going to retain their "best" staff - meaning those let go are the "weaker" members of the firm. It's a relative judgment and doesn't mean the ones let go were altogether weak.
Everyone offers a mix of attributes - firms retain the combination of attributes they believe will help them best meet the challenges that lie ahead.
Now let's get ready for the real ride and see what happens when commercial properties implode this summer, and maybe sooner. The European markets are overloaded with eastern European debt and will soon tank. Unemployment continues to rise. Underfunded pension plans become further underfunded.Taxes are going up, everywhere. Politicians are becoming increasingly creative in stealing our money. Just wait until GM and Chrysler go BK.
This is not a market in which to be an architect.
On the bright side funding for medical projects has picked up and, surprisingly, international work is up a tick too. Despite what you may have read about cutbacks, spending for military related projects continues. K-12 projects go on. Many are messy but, they help pay the rent.
It's not all doom and gloom. Armagedden has not arrived.
We will survive. Just hold tight!
Try the banks! Citibank just raised interest rates on a lot of people while they have taken over $200 billion in our tax dollars to shore up their subprime adventures.
There's work out there. This will be my best year since 04.
well, the scene in Portland OR is still shit:
link
350 workers off the project until 2010. developers, construction companies, design build. nobody is hiring.
and to wash dishes you apparently have to have a year of experience:
link
anyway, just giving an update on my city.
Bank of America changed its overdraft policies, the fine is $39 and can be levied against you 10 times each day. This is great news for local small banks with good balance sheets. The Giants might be cutting themselves down at the knees. It is an attempt to raise funds because banks counted on penalty fees as a major part of their revenues. Small banks that offer reasonable fees, overdraft privilege, and customer service that is personalized might just start picking up depositors from the big guys.
Some people are worried about Somali Pirates when we might want to look out for the ones on the corners of major intersection in our cities and towns.
From my experience you can often time get overdraft fees cancelled if you have a good history with the bank and it was a one-time occurance. Happened to me once because a check was slow to clear and Wells Fargo cancelled the fee right away because over more than a decade of banking it was my first occurance. Also know a few people that had their bank accounts compromised and racked up fees due to fraud and the bank immediately cancelled all the fees.
While $39 does seem like a high fee do remember that it's something that is totally avoidable. Keep an eye on your balance. With modern online banking there should be no excuse for not knowing what your balance is.
Babs: "Naturally, if a firm is faced with staff reductions, they're going to retain their "best" staff - meaning those let go are the "weaker" members of the firm. "
I think this may be true at smaller firms, but at the big corporates this may or may not be the case anymore. In a recession as serious as this one the big firms will begin by letting go "weaker" staff as Rena seems to be saying, but for the most part we're now way beyond that point.
Three other strategies kick in after that point: strategic elimination of business lines in particular offices (like HOK essentially getting rid of urban design in NY) - in which case all staff in the targeted strategic area will go. Alternatively, the corporates may engage in the wholesale elimination of junior staff, requiring senior staff (or assets in other groups) to take over more production.. visualization specialists and the like tend to bear the brunt of these necessary measures (and, frankly, a lot of the corporates have a lot of fat, as non-client facing managers were allowed to build fiefdoms in richer times). Finally (and perhaps most commonly), the corporates will target for lay off anyone who simply isn't staffed on an active contract, including but limited to senior staff and even principals (perhaps especially principals) who are focusing on BD, building new businesses. We lost a healthcare head for exactly this reason.
Urbanist: I take your point and do understand that such strategies are being undertaken in dire circumstances such as we're experiencing now. However, back to xaia's point, I do think there's still a fairly high correlation between who a firm keeps and that person's overall capabilities. No firm that's paying any attention is going to eliminate really strong professionals and keep weaker performers, absent a sound business reason for doing so.
However, I do accept that if a firm were to say, eliminate their structural engineering department altogether, then some solid structural engineers in that department are going to lose their jobs, while perhaps some not so solid performers in another department might keep their jobs. That's not an apples-to-apples comparison -- I think xaia was looking at this issue more on an apples-to-apples basis.
Yes I'm part time package handler at Fed EX, but looking for work and building my skill set is 8-10 hours a day too. Thanks to the stimulus I have an extension in unemployment, so I can focus on the LEED AP exam and learn REVIT. Once that is done in May I hopefully will find a job in the field but probably earning much less than I was in 2007-2008 if not I will be homeless by January
As for temp / staffing agencies in architecture has anyone heard of or have an opinion on Archipro?
I hear you lookout kid. My friends were all duped at one firm about two weeks ago into thinking that there wouldnt be any layoffs at least for another 9 months -- sure enough that was a flat out lie an basically the entire production staff was cut. There are going to be some major losers after the dust finally settles from this ridiculous self-inflicted recession.
Many of our superiors tell us not to burn bridges but I think in this case many employers have actually burned their bridges with future employees. I mean we have heard some truly outrageous stories from pretty reputable firms. For example, my last office litterally treated laid off employees like they were deathrow inmates -- having building security and police escort them out -- even the women -- how humiliating is that shit? This forum has helped many people see some of the neanderthal business models that many architecture firms still practice. Hopefully in the end of the day many of them will be forced to change their habits or no will want to ever even consider them. Based on the testemonials of many on this forum, I now know a great many I'd never ever worked for -- that I'd rather starve than work for.
I forgot to include the beginning of my post copy paste error.
So, is anyone working in a field outside or related to Architecture right now?
(Please see my previous post)
med: "My friends were all duped at one firm about two weeks ago into thinking that there wouldnt be any layoffs at least for another 9 months..."
Your irrational disdain for nearly all firm owners is damn near legendary here on Archinect. However, you perpetually fail to understand that this recession is unlike any we've ever seen before. The widespread suddenness with which seemingly solid projects disappear -- typically without any prior warning to the firm -- is without precedent.
The choice firms must make include a) not say anything at all to their staff about the future (leading to extreme nervousness among the staff); b) telling the staff what, in your best judgment, is likely to happen (running the risk that you may be wrong); or c) telling the staff what you think is likely to happen, but then put so many caveats on those statements that the staff goes away totally terrified about what's going to happen. None of these are good choices.
These are genuinely tough judgements to make and sometimes we don't get it entirely right. But, I ask you, what benefit does the firm gain by lying to, or trying to deceive, its staff about such matters. I just don't see how anybody benefits.
You need to lighten up or go work in another industry.
I was laid off in May 2008, I was disappointed but not angry at my boss who kept me in the loop as to what was going on. You have to ask questions and keep up to speed with current events business is a long complicated game of chess requiring you to think a few moves ahead.
I would prefer that an employer tell me the truth and that they don’t know what the future may hold but are doing everything the can to keep the firm together. When I was let go he laid it out that the banks would not finance the client’s projects and all other prospective clients are not in a position to start work for a long time. In other words it wasn’t me it was the economic circumstances. This is the ideal situation, but sometimes the leadership at a firm is not fully aware of their client’s financial status and in the interest of their clients try not to let on publicly that some client’s are in financial trouble. This is a difficult situation for everyone and I think is one of many causes for sudden and unexpected layoffs.
We are service providers dependent on clients for our work. We need to understand that clients will do what is their best interest which in many recent instances has been keeping mum about the financial viability of their projects up till the last minute. No one wants to invest in a sinking ship and many clients try to keep a poker face routine going as long as possible so as not to scare away investors and or clients of their own.
PJN26 - "We need to understand that clients will do what is their best interest which in many recent instances has been keeping mum about the financial viability of their projects up till the last minute."
exactly !
I can’t remember who said it but at a lecture on professional practice I heard this
“Good Architecture starts with Good Clients”
that's entirely true ... but, even good clients are being whipsawed by this economic meltdown. they seem as confused as we are.
Babs don't act so surprised by all this, there is nothing irrational about anything really. It's not our fault (and it's not your fault) -- but we seem to be suffering the most in all of this. Why is it any surprise to you that some of us younger people are comletely frustrated? We're the ones getting killed here! If that firm couldn't keep its staff they should have just told them up front that they need to start looking for other means of employment down the line. Blowing smoke up their asses is just misleading to the staff. Generally management of firms keep all their financial matters tightly sealed so we have no idea what happens or really what to do once the axe falls. Once you guys herd us into that room and tell us your "great news", have us escorted off the premises imediately like criminals and have an education-less HR person (who apparently has leagues better job security than we do) assure that all of our belongings will be mailed to us, what are we supposed to think???
We've seen what kind of scourndrels have come out of this economy and I'm sure every profession has been guilty in some fashion -- remember this is all self-inflicted. Why in the world would we want to trust corporate leaders after we have seen such unspeakable crimes using neanderthall 1950s business models as cover-ups?
Furthermore, this time around all of your mass layoffs have mostly affected one particular group -- the younger -- future generation of architects. Most of these people have not been able to find jobs ever since being laid off. You saw the result of what happened the last time you pulled this off in 1990-1991 -- an entire generation of architects were anhilated and never rejoined the profession (they weren't allowed to).
Again, one of my last firms axed 50 people all of which were 20-something high octane production/CAD/REVIT people. Even the senior associates and some of the other principals were simply enraged by these decisions. They even admitted that they have absolutely no way to produce if even one of their pending projects came back to life.
The even WORSE part about this and I know that this is going to happen is that when we're all out their applying for jobs once the economy gets better (and hopefully ALL of the white collar criminals are behind bars) many people will have large holes of unemployment on their resumes durring the 2008-2010 years. And I'm sure many people will judge people on that.
it's not just the young ones med. we all are hurting right now.
NYT just ran an article on how those over 45 may have lower unemployment rate but a higher proportion of their unemployed have been out of work for more than 6 month and historically, and a higher proportion of workers who lost their jobs in this age group earn less in new jobs.
Longer Unemployment for Those 45 and Older
med - once again, you seem to want to tar everybody with the same brush, regardless of the facts. you bring no balance whatsoever to your posts.
The simple fact is that the extreme behavior you describe is not the norm. Sure, there have been some bad examples shared here, but those are not typical stories -- they're just very painful and very visible. But, they're not typical.
These economic troubles are so widespread that the pain is much more vertical than you make it out to be. I know very good people at all levels in firms around the country who have lost their jobs -- including principals and office heads.
I'm not surprised by the frustration ... I accept that there are a lot of bad things happening out there. I'm just getting sick of your relentless belittling of the all the people who run firms when all you have to go on is your personal biases and anecdotal evidence told to you by a few friends.
I'm not a criminal nor do I handle difficult situations in my firm anywhere close to what you accuse us all of doing ... and I don't know any principals of design firms in my area or region who come even close to the kind of behavior you so love to smear us all with here on archinect.
Maybe where you live the world is very different than it is here. But I'm well connected to many communities around the country ... what you like to bitch about here simply doesn't correlate with the many sad, but humane, stories I know to be factual. You have no credibility on these matters -- you just like to complain. You're a sad, sad little person.
babs - just ignore med. we've all tried and obviously, irretrievably failed.
despite all the belly aching...MEd. is one ofthe few interns that is still gainfully employed... go figure.
I missing something here? In order to live you need money. In order to get money we have to work. Our jobs are simply going away.
Why are you guys so surprised by our frustration? What many of you guys are saying is that it's okay for other people to bitch about other pointless bullshit but when our livelihoods are at stake, it's not okay?
and apparently it's okay for Babs to start going for personal attacks and name-calling. Nothing wrong with that at all....
This is fun ... this idiot makes my point for me !
speaking of holes in your resume...
having graduated in June 2006, I have now officially been unemployed more months than employed. its hard to think that some people I graduated with are taking the tests and knocking on the door of getting their license and there is a good chance I wont even be able to get my IDP done within my window of time. right now I'm working on a 9 month stint of being unemployed. granted I have been doing other things, but largely not too much architecture related.
I don't feel terrible about it, I've been working hard to keep up with local AIA events and making calls to people and just staying generally aware of the architecture scene. It'll just take time. and when anyone interviewing me asks what happened during all these months I'll just tell them. what can you do? eventually something will break and things will start to roll again. I'm not completely disenfranchised with the profession yet so i'm trying to do my best doing what I can. and anyone who have been laid off knows what thats all about.
as with most things the more positive attitude you have the better things will be. if you write a cover letter to a company and are pissed off and feeling butt hurt and blaze right through it they will know. somehow, something will come out of this and in the end I hope I'll be better off. its like a life test, ya know?
Joe - me thinks you have the right attitude and bright future ahead
I fail to understand the rancour here and in the other layoff threads, and why there needs to be such a staff vs. management mentality. Virtually all firms in our industry are under stress now. Some of them are coping relatively well, some, perhaps those poorly managed to begin with, are doing much worse. I don't think anyone here will deny that both types of firms exist and that both Babs and med. are right.
To say that one thing is all one way or all another way is patently false. There are firms that have managed receivables and payables well enough to provide themselves some flexiblity in these difficult times, which have consistently treated their employees fairly and which have exhibited a high degree of transparency in their financial and human resources behavior. There are other firms that have consistently failed to pay their employees and even their subcontractors, that are reeling from years of mismanagement, and where the principals can't seem to find their insurance certificates and license documents, much less their P&Ls on any given day. These two extremes are not equal in their ability to weather a financial firestorm, and there are all shades in between.
Babs, You are right on!
Thanks for trying with med. Alas, I agree with outed that he may be a lost cause. He's a couple of years out of school and knows absolutely everything--so what good are all your years of inside experience? All your years of work have just made you into another one of those meanies—those evil, ignorant registered architects out to fool, abuse, and deliberately torture young interns! Babs, I’ll bet you are green and have warts on your nose. You don’t even seem to acknowledge that you owe him something just because he exists!! He just loves to bitch and doesn't want to ever stop bitching. It is poisoning him but he can't stop. My guess is that his behaving like an entitled, spoiled, immature, bitter little brat is nothing new. I could call up one of my friends who teaches at VT and figure out exactly who he is, because that bad attitude cannot be anything new. Heaven help us if he actually gets laid off!
He and Joe must be about the same age and Joe shows so much more maturity, wisdom, and life skills. It’s amazing how far a good attitude can get you. There is a lot more to being a successful architect than just technical skills and design talent. Architects have to get work, keep work, execute work, and finish work. Most of those steps involve ‘working well with others.’ Most of our young interns do well, try hard, and bring value to our firm. We respect and value those people. They are our future.
I don’t know anyone who has ever enjoyed laying off an employee—even those few who frustrated and disappointed us. In this difficult time, when clients stop jobs or worse—keep them going well beyond their capability to pay for them—there are difficult choices to make. Yes, interns are sometimes let go first, because we have less invested in them. We have spent time, money, and effort on our more experienced employees. (When med earns some seniority, he will think it is unfair that those with his level of experience are let go.) On the other hand, sometimes we keep the younger, cheaper people who we see as having great potential. Sometimes, we keep a person for personal reasons. In the hard time after 9-11, we kept an under-performing young designer simply because he had lost a close relative that tragic day. That may have been unfair to others, but it seemed the most humane thing to do at the time. Some firms just come up with a policy, like last hired-first fired, and stick to it so they don’t have to make personal decisions. There is no good and fair way to reduce a staff of talented, hard-working human beings.
There are humane ways to handle the actual layoff, but that is difficult too, because word spreads fast, people wait, worrying and gossiping. I think any firm that uses the insensitive methods complained about in these threads has probably experienced an unpleasant incident in the past. Back in the old days, one of my co-workers who had been laid off came back with a weapon and frightened everyone with his rage. I am now very sensitive to the security of the office in a stressful situation. Another time in an engineer friend’s office, an employee came back and started throwing plans out the window and tossing drafting tables. If you consider those incidents, the right or wrong of the situation is no longer so clear.
As to knowing the financial situation of a firm and communicating it—well, it can change in an instant these days. A big job goes on hold, a client stops paying or declares bankruptcy, the bank changes its terms… The rules have all changed.
Yes, there are some jerks in this profession, but the majority of us are good people with good intentions. Maligning the entire management level of architects is irresponsible and wrong.
Woah. I think you are getting a little carried away here, CM. And I think that the two of you have me completely misunderstood. My venting really has nothing to do with who I am and how I act professionally. I only vent the way I do because I've seen all the testemonials and people's deteriorating financial situations because of layoffs -- I guess it just makes me and many people my same age feel kind of helpless and hopeless in many ways.
My intention is not to malign the entire management level and if I am making it sound like that I do appologize -- really. I've praised the leadership at past and present firms on many occasions. I think the current firm I work at has outstanding management. And yes, we HAVE had layoffs. Same applies for my last firm -- the management and senior level staff were also some of the most outstanding group of professionals I've ever met. When they contracted (on many occasions), they handled it as well as it could be handled.
As for your acusations of what I might do if I get laid off -- aside from that being absolutely ridiculous -- I think it's also pretty presumptive and not very helpful. I've already thought about it since the summer and if the axe does indeed fall and I'm a victim, oh well. Obviously I'd be disapointed and a little upset, but I'd move on rather quickly and figure out something else for a while. I just get frustrated because I really love the profession and don't want to leave it. I would be worried that future employers would judge me based on a gap in employment and I'd be worried about losing touch and getting rusty at production work. I am learning so much right now and love learning and I just think that would be a real shame if that suddenly stopped and I was forced to learn something entirely different. I mean none of us have any idea how long this thing will last. I have good friends who have been out of a job for eight months since getting laid off -- I can't even imagine how they feel.
So anyway. I've said my piece, and you guys have said yours. Despite the way I sound I have tremendous respect for my superiors. And I really do value and appreciate your opinions as well -- I trully mean it. It's good to hear your perspectives and testemonials about some of your experiences as well. I know my place in the profession and know that I have a lot to learn on every level. I'm sure that in the future I will reflect back on these times (they way my superiors reflect back on the early 90s) and I will have a completely different outslook. In the end of the day, my mission to work the best I can and produce the best quality of work that I can. And if things get ugly down the road and I get cut, then at least I know that I've done the very best I could.
Peace!
I hope the AIA and NCARB collect data on layoffs and report that back to schools, it might be useful in some instances to identify programs, or periods of time within a program, that produced interns and architects that, somehow, were more likely to be laid off during this down turn. Information is important and sometimes I get the impression that academia often moves without much regard for the profession or it’s students / future alumni. Maybe if a school realized that the employee retention rate plummeted after a specific drafting class was phased out, or jumped when a new instructor started teaching a finance elective could help guide some institutions in a direction that is most beneficial for everyone.
I think the lack of knowledge of workflow and the importance of billable hours in many interns is disturbing and points to a major deficiency or egregious omission in architectural education.
Maybe the solution would be some sort of NCARB NAAB exit exam before your M Arch or B Arch is certified.
med: nice thoughtful post ... thanks for clarifying your actual views.
in a forum of this sort we can only react to the words you write. we can't see your facial expressions; we can't read your body language; we don't know much of your background or your cultural heritage or your personal situation.
your words become "you" ... that is the "you" to which we react.
Wow med. a complete 180!
a little detective work by CM and the guy is singing like a canary.
Just an update, Shalom Baranes in DC had a layoff today. Don't know how many people were let go, but i know it was at least one team.
Detective work?
I would say it was just shy of a serious threat to invade my privacy and rights and use it as a tool to "blacklist" me in some kind of way. I'm sure people know the legal implications of such threats -- especially when I've done nothing wrong but express my opinions that CM happened to disagree with. I did no harm, I didn't threarten harm in any way, and I never even alluded to harm.
med. - let it go, man. you're going to give yourself a stroke.
A short time ago HKS let 130 people go. This was company-wide and included a small number of titled personnel. It is rumored there will be another lay-off of about 100 before July
The Layoffs continue in DC.
This time Torti Gallas laid off 35 just last week.
We are all architects here right? we need to band together, not split due to rank issues.
At the firm I worked at for over 2 years, I too, was laid off in a similar situation:
The pregnant lady who kept the boss updated on her pregnancy was one out of 85 people to stay.
The woman who just had a child and was working part-time and from home was another that got to stay.
The part-time renderer was let go when they overloaded him for 3 months to "finish up" all renderings
My senior project manager was let go because he disagreed with the construction manager/client -so it solved the problem between firm and client right there.
At least 20 junior and senior production/technical staff were let go, in no particular order.
At least 20 interior designers were let go.
Mostly who they kept in the beginning of the layoffs were people that they hired for less money to begin with, because the firm sponsors foreign people who are on work visas. They kept a lot of interns and fresh out of college kids as well, probably because of payroll constraints.
As time went on and the economy didn't improve, no one was safe. Every employee was a possible layoff then. One senior partner worked closely with every project manager for a month, then fired them all and took over all their responsibilities.
There are sneaky things like that going on, but I guess they can't alarm the office too much and make chaos by stating the truth.
Anyone with bad blood in the office, and people who make high salaries and their work can be absorbed and loaded onto another senior will be the first to be laid off, in my opinion. After that, they review the value and skill of the others and layoff accordingly.
That firm I was at started small, and grew to almost a hundred employees.
They hit hard times and had to cut jobs. Its a fact of life.
The problem is that they say, "We are back to our core people" "We are 'right-sizing' "and all these other fancy corporate buzzwords in order to make it sound more humane.
I agree that employers should just be honest about it. Explain that clients were not paying bills, explain how there are projects on hold because of whatever reasons.
A few months before the layoffs, they clearly stated in a companywide meeting:
"The housing market is turning for the worse"
(the firm's work was 85 % housing projects)
"Even if we do not get any new work , we will have enough work to go around this office for the next 3 years"
"Your jobs are safe."
"We are unaffected by this economy"
Then, there was an emergency meeting 3 months later, and layoffs began...
I still heard those promises in my head as I picked up my severance pay and packed my desk into boxes. I guess I am glad that I even got anything.
Worse is when they get a new job, and it involves a 6 bedroom 6 bath apartment in manhattan. Can anyone even afford that right now?
Everyone does what they can to survive, white lies aim to preserve feelings, but they obscure the truth and truthworthiness as well.
word on the street is that SOM closed its Long Island branch and consolidated it back to the Wall St. NYC office. No word on layoffs, if any, yet...
I can understand that custom residential is in a slum as credit is scarce and even the most flush amongst us don’t have the cash for a major renovation or new weekend retreat, but I have noticed that two types of firms seem to be adding staff right now 1 Education particularly K-12, and 2 corrections. I am not sure if this is a fluke or if it is part of the stimulus finally hitting the pavement. I’m excited about the prospect of schools being built but I am concerned about corrections work, but I suppose even prisons need to be designed to be more humane and environmentally benign. However, if someone asks me to design a solar powered execution chamber and make it LEED certified I might have to take a pass.
Someone on this discussion board had mentioned that in recessions hotels often undergo major upgrades, is this the case, does anyone know of this happening?
I've heard that as well. Know that WATG was adding people back after the 9/11 hiccup while others were laying off. On a recent trip to Miami the hotels were near ghost towns. Heard similar of Vegas. If the Hiltons and Marriott's are sucking it hard I can't imagine they'll be spending too much, but what do I know?
Nobody I know has seen one cent of stimulus work hit the boards yet. From what I hear the K-12 is technology work, not new buildings. Great if you are a low voltage engineer. So much K-12 funding is dependant on the local tax payers passing bonds, etc. Can't imagine that'll be an easy prospect with the current economy. Worked in that field for many years and hated the live or die by the voters will part of it. Layoffs in the fall after election day were not uncommon.
Gov't work at the federal level is about the only thing I've heard of that's still coming in the door, at least for projects of any size. Problem with that is is a huge game of who you know and a very antiquated process of architects bidding for the work. Most firms can't really turn on a dime and get into that game. Just got to batten the hatches and ride this out with loyal clients that can afford to feed us scraps.
PJN26 - In regards to hotel work... it's not so much the 3 + 4 star hotels that get the major upgrades and renovations but the 5 star and up resorts that are getting planned. From what we've seen everyone is willing to plan until their eyeballs bleed but they can't get any further than planning because of financing issues. However, a while back I mentioned I was on a project that was 100% financed but it was the foreign government unwilling to spend any money on infrastructure to supply the resort with electricity/water/roads/etc because the rest of the country is suffering. So the project was canceled, the client closed their offices in that area, and have moved on. So either way it's still bad- whether it's lack of financing, or the money hasn't actually gotten to the government, or the government is so scared they aren't willing to spend any for these types of projects.
hmmm...one fine day in december, the principal in charge of my studio invited us all to his brand new mansion for a party two weeks before he layed off a bunch of us... (4th round layoffs?) he also had bought a brand new car and was going to many business golf tournament things and trips to resorts. he also lost plenty of projects for us when times were good. actually he wasn't even really supposed to be a principal because of his old age but somehow he convinced the ceo. another principal sharing the studio was fired because he was too young and then we lost the projects he was working on... then the principal started directly instructing us how to detail the building in outdated building techniques near the end... finally the issue of my age kept coming up with him personally while at the same time my managers were praising my expertise compared to my age. he also took issue with me riding a bike to work.
the leaders with integrity were all layed off before this guy. it's creeps like this that seem to be left at the controls... greedy, narcissitic bastards.....
i was actually told i was "safe" the week before i was layed off. then, the day before i was layed off the boss acted so nice to me! but then when they called me into "the meeting" he had his nose up in the air and wouldn't even look me in the eye. the ceo, whom i don't know well, talked to me and explained everything.
thats enough reason for me to find fault with management, thanks.
Bloodclot, I'm sorry you had to experience this. Sounds like quite a buffoon. Why would anyone have issue with people riding their bikes to school?
Sadly, I've heard many gut wrenching stories similar to this -- of course with many of the posters defending those kinds of actions. I know that at one firm here, the management people made a promise to everyone that their jobs were safe for at least another year but ended up laying 20% of them off and giving the rest 20% pay cuts only a month later. So we all know what a steaming crock of shit it is when people say our jobs are "safe."
med. - I know there are firms that don't handle transparency about layoffs very well but your view sounds very jaded.
I've been in meetings where principals have said With these cuts we hope to ride this out through the end of the year Emphasis added because, several weeks later there was another layoff. Simply put, projects didn't come to fruition and more cuts were needed ~ hope wasn't enough.
Unfortunately those that got cut don't remember the simple hope caveat, they only feel blindsided and angry and either choose to partially remember or simply forgot there was no promise of full employment to that arbritary time.
We can argue about who is getting hardest hit by the layoffs, but in this day and age, take anything your told with a grain of salt, including what your principal says about your employment.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.