Which firms?

We've had two rounds of layoffs in my firm. What is killing us is a general reliance on upscale client-driven multi-family residential and retail. And I'll hazard a guess that the next discipline where work will dry up soon is hospitality.

In my city, there are a few firms that have completely tanked, there are firms like ours that are trying to break even (by "trimming the fat)), and there are firms that are doing phenomenal. It started off in a post-2007 holiday season slowdown and then things got REALLY slow. I know a lot of people who work in the city and the general consensus is that every major firm is struggling in some degree or the other.

If you don't feel secure in your job, I would greatly suggest that you begin revamping your folio and resume ASAP, and make contact with other firms for backup. This is what I have done because I feel like I am just as expendable as the people who were actually laid off. The only difference is that I am payed tremendously less and am categorically one of the lowest paid people there. I don't mean to scare you, but if the above describes your firm, chances are there will be an announcement of layoffs coming up.

heard that my last employer just laid off about 20 people. they are located where else?... dearborn, mi...

when a friend tells you that they are getting licensed architects who were senior associates at major firms applying for an entry-level designer position, something's definitely up.

oh man, ether, gotta dump on the midwest? cold, bro', cold. ;)

we've definitely seen layoffs in the detroit area, but i wouldn't say they are so much related to the problems of the auto industry, and they are perhaps only tangentially related to the subprime mortgage mess. it seems to me that the problems in the credit industry have made it difficult for many clients to finance their projects. therefore almost everything outside of government and academic work is on hold right now. everyone is trying to keep their head above water until wall street loosens up. who knows when that will be?

Which firms?

sorry, man, not going there.

cutting from the bottom or the top

i have seen lots of overheard people go (the lazy principles)

thats not new... detroit has been hiring/laying off in the same week and still laying off..........

i keep telling people to be able to be well rounded and diversify in your work....... everyone else tells me to just focus on one thing...... it's a catch 22 either way......

b

In my experiences, they have been going bottom-to well more bottom unfortunately. Big mistake. We were already totally top-heavy to begin with and now all that will be left (after the inevitable pre-holiday third layoff -- what better way to say Merry Christmas!) are associates, senior associates, and principles -- already paid greatly too. Very few of them have even the most cursory CAD/Production training.

Name some names and then we'll better idea of what's going on... This isn't exactly a state secret.

Names don't matter.

But you can do the math... Any firm with sizable concentration in the disciplines such multi -family residential, retail, mix use, and now even office are going to be hurting.

Firms that specialize in areas like higher education, k-12, federal, research, health care, and science/technology are going to be doing pretty well.

We are hiring. But, yes, seen lots of others having lay-offs.

Actually names do matter because it's more complicated than that. It also gives you an idea of how a particular place is run. That's important.

Make, I won't be the one to name any names, just so we're clear.

I know two people who were laid off from their firms (one big, one small) in chicago this summer, relatively recent grads.. But at the same time, I know firms there that are definitely hiring and interviewing these days (both big and small). Strange times we live in.

I'm still job hunting and gotta say that in a way, I'm glad I'm entry-level.. I'd be an inexpensive hire.. now if someone would just hire me..

i've heard of lay offs in london as well, probably not the best time to be looking for a job there (but hey, what can you do?)

i think especially now, if your more diversified, you might have a chance to getting hired...but then again who am i to talk...heheh

since firms are getting smaller, i would think that they would keep the folks that can juggle a few traits and still perform..... as opposed to being so focused on 1 area....... or am i wrong?


b

This is a really good example of what's wrong with our profession... Look at the Big 4 website, they have lotsa' intelligence there. They name names and talk candidly. You guys are like entry-level or slightly above that and you're afraid to talk about another firm laying off people? I find that really weird.

I'm working at one of these huge but struggling firms. I'm not taking any chances.

You should know that this is a small community and word travels very fast.

On the naming of firms...

This is a thread on the general (and scary) topic of the current economic climate in some architectural firms.

There's a reason you don't see real names in the column to the left. People want to stay anonymous in here. Naming particular firms--even if not one's own-- potentially identifies a person to others working in the same city.

What citizen said.

It's like I may as well just give you my full name and SS....

looks like i'm screwed...jk

What is the "Big 4" website? Is that some place(s) where you can get all the architecture business dirt?

look at it this way if you get your pink slip you can pick up some unemployment and not have to pretend to like appreciate or care about the shitty buildings that you have probably been forced to work on at that conservative client appeasing developer driven mcmansion licking lifestyle center worshipping say they are green but drive in from the suburbs in an suv havent read a book or had an idea that they didn't see in an interior design magazine from a year ago think we are cutting edge because we downloaded coldplay to our iphone bullshit...see it may not be so bad...

sounds like a way to make people work for less

look at it this way if you get your pink slip you can pick up some unemployment and not have to pretend to like appreciate or care about the shitty buildings that you have probably been forced to work on at that conservative client appeasing developer driven mcmansion licking lifestyle center worshipping say they are green but drive in from the suburbs in an suv havent read a book or had an idea that they didn't see in an interior design magazine from a year ago think we are cutting edge because we downloaded coldplay to our iphone bullshit...see it may not be so bad...

that sounds rather personal ;)

lay-off's? what lay-offs?
Well, as we all know Miami is at the top of every list when it comes to foreclosures, unsold inventory, bankrupcy, etc. We have been fortunate to ride out the storm, which at our latest staffing meeting (today) was compared to post-911. Many Miami firms, and National firms in Miami have been hit hard... Listen, things are bad. If you are just noticing, you are way behind. We began shoring up things late last year, early this year. Many projects have gone on hold (4 this week) but demand is still strong abroad (china, india, brazil, chile). The only domestic work on-going is mostly residual CA (construction administration...just in case someone asks...) for large projects in Miami, and some joint government projects with our N.E. offices.
Having mentioned that, our DC office is extremely busy (while other DC firms are laying off). NY, Boston, LA, Chicago, etc. have been pretty strong, but they are starting to see some of the pain...this will be by far a pretty difficult time in our country and profession. All I can offer is...good luck to all!

layoffs are def. happening in NY

how about NYC?

make - firms that focused on residential work - they are the ones hurting right now. if you don't know who these are in your area, then you aren't doing your homework.

basically it comes down being regarded as valuable in your office - If you are mediocre -you lose- comfort has it's price

comfort has it's place, but also its stresses and pressures.

my current working theory of the people who tend to get laid off first:

recent hires: no one knows what they are good at yet, so they get canned
older staff who have no interest in becoming management
people who were critical of management at any time over the past year
admin staff (who needs them when you have interns!)
IT staff (who needs them when you have interns!)
those who pushed too hard for adequate professional development
and...
anyone who is highly intelligent and talented but socially awkward

I've survived several lay-offs over the years, and sometimes I've been quite baffled by who firms get rid of and who they keep around - I think it mostly comes down to who management likes and who they don't like... often it's really valuable people who get let go because they happened to complain about something. instead of addressing the actual problem, they just get rid of the people who pointed it out.

not all firms are like this, though...

Larger firms that I worked in usually had partners' meetings to decide how to do layoffs systematically - so sometimes it was just some number of people in each branch of the firm, or in each department, that would be selected across the board based on one factor, like seniority or percentage of billable hours.
But in a number of cases they decided to do it by laying off the highest paid people in each job category - which often meant the more longstanding and experienced people got cut because they cost too much - and kept the low-paid newbies in each job.

In smaller firms it seemed more personal and specific to personality issues and such. People who were difficult to get along with or were prone to ruffling feathers were the first to go. In another firm the partners decided to layoff everybody without a masters degree.

I got through a lot of these layoffs in the early 2000s, somehow always making the cut regardless of what it was - but I just counted myself lucky.
I mean there are some things you can do to help yourself, like not making waves and trying hard to get along with everyone, and not taking a lot of sick days and personal time, and being on time, and billing lots of hours...
But if somebody decides to go with some across the board rule, and lay off everyone with not enough seniority, or too high a salary, or with a certain education, or whatever, then you can't really help it if you fall into the wrong category on the wrong day.

This is a bit of interesting news which appeared in the NYT in regard
to the latest Bank in trouble: Why can't Architects figure out an end game like this?

But the seizure and the deal with JPMorgan came as a shock to Washington Mutual’s board, which was kept completely in the dark: the company’s new chief executive, Alan H. Fishman, was in midair, flying from New York to Seattle at the time the deal was finally brokered, according to people briefed on the situation. Mr. Fishman, who has been on the job for less than three weeks, is eligible for $11.6 million in cash severance and will get to keep his $7.5 million signing bonus, according to an analysis by James F. Reda and Associates. WaMu was not immediately available for comment.

Snook I agree.

It's extremely frustrating to see that it's 2008 and people as highly educated and qualified as architects are just let go like that. They preach to us about saving enough income (of about a half-year salary) for the "rainy days" while it should be the actual firms who should be saving up for the rainy days to prevent people from losing their jobs.

Oh BTW, this economic situation we are in now won't be going away any time soon. And that only means that these threads will soon start becoming more common.

layoffs suck ... no matter how you slice it, layoffs suck.

they suck for the people who lose their jobs. they suck for all the others, who worry about losing their jobs. and, whether you believe it or not, they suck for the owners of the firm - nobody likes making decisions that costs people their jobs.

I suppose every firm goes about this in different ways. but, in my experience nce, most firms take such decisions very seriously and make every effort to approach staff cuts in a strategic manner.

as the need for staff cuts emerges, I believe most firms really do think about who represents long term value and offers long term potential - those folks usually are protected. screw-ups, shirkers and people unable, or unwilling, to be a contributing part of the team are easy to identify and often are the first to go.

those fitting between these two groups are the toughest to address. often those in this group retain their jobs because they have a protector or are working on projects that would suffer if they departed - often it's not much more complicated than that.

I believe there's little an individual can do in the near tern to alter their fate - firms form impressions about people over time. someone who gets serious about his/her job only when times are tough really stands out and draws substantial attention ... it's really obvious and really annoying. don't think - after dicking around the past few years - that your firm's going to protect your job simply because you've suddenly decided to buckle down. firms are going to protect those who are dependable and who consistently contribute.

careers are built a day at a time and a decision at a time. there's a lesson there - good times or bad.

good luck.

Are you freaking kidding me - that's about the most naïve statement I've read on this forum in years. where does this intolerable sense of entitlement come from?

after f**king firms the past few years because of labor shortages, all of a sudden employees now demand that firms be "loyal" and "paternalistic" - gimme a break! where was the loyalty on the other side, when people wouldn't think anything about job-hopping for the most meaningless of reasons?

self-interest cuts both ways. don't demand unrealistic wages (relative to your productivity), screw around on archinect all day, sit buried at your monitor with headphones on, oblivious to what's happening around you and indifferent to the quality of your work - and then expect firms to continue subsidizing you even more when times get tough.

I hate layoffs, and our firm goes to extremes to avoid such decisions - we recognize the value (to everybody) of employment stability. I can't tell you how many pay cuts and salary deferrals I've voluntarily taken over the years to see that our staff's pay continues.

We work really hard to keep our team together. But, I gotta tell you, an attitude like that would put you right at the top of my list.

Wow babs, some one just flew off the rocker. Didn't know I had this effect on people -- to be honest it gives me kind of a warm and fuzzy feeling knowing that I can reduce someone to this without blowing a gasket first.

Anyway it was just an opinion which is what people post here. Although you might not like to think it babs, you DO NOT have the answers to everything and no, you don't shit orange sherbert (sorry to break it to you).

and, you are totally out of your depth on such matters!

Babs, thanks for playing. This just proves your level of immaturity.

Go buy something.

I donno, Achmed - from the perspective of a firm owner, I think your earlier post was one of the sillier of many silly opinions expressed here by you. At least babs made a reasoned - if somewhat impassioned - argument. You can tell her post was based on considerable real-world experience.

You, on the other hand, responded with invective and crude personal attack. You might want to look in the mirror before calling others immature. As far as I can tell, about all you have to offer is a degree, a year or so of work experience and lots and lots of ill considered opinion.

Stone, lot's of personal attacks on your end too, I see. This is becoming far too funny.

Anyway, point is. You don't know me and you don't know anything about me. And if you really had issues with my "ill-considered" opinions rebuttal them for crying out loud.

Other than that, the first two word of your response are about the only thing you got right.

Archmed, you're talking out of your ass.

Firing people fucking sucks, it sucks for the employer and for the employee. If you work at one of those firms where management is so oblivious to their employees they lay-off people without batting an eye, you need to find a new job man.

can't collect un-employment if your self employed.......... food for thought

Archimed;
As a firm owner, your attitude is uninformed. Yes, firms to keep some amount of operating cash on hand. And if times get tough, believe me, I am going to do everything I can to keep the really productive talented members of my team. This is true for nearly every firm. No one wants to lay off their best assets. But the bottom 10% who were here just because there was a huge shortage of people to hire, and they were all I could get? Well it would actually be nice to clean house a bit.

In tough time, the first ones laid off are the poor performers, or those who have job hopped around, and are paid much more than they are worth. Why would I go without pay (as I have for months ) to pay someone who underperforms?

I have absolutely no idea where we are not agreeing here.

I've seen it in the past where 50-person firms would lay off virtually 80-90% of the staff. somewhere within that percentage is at least a hand full of extremely talented and productive people with good enough personalities to keep around.