There were mixed comments in the thread about his LA seminar awhile back. However, it still seems promising and I'm considering attending his seminar this Sunday.
this dude is an a-hole. i wouldn't let him pay ME to tell me about development. he's arrogant and selfish and won't teach you anything you cannot read for yourself in a book.
I've always thought that if you spend 800 bucks on a one day seminar like this, you probaby would make a great developer... Just doesn't seem like a wise financial decision.
it's pretty easy to be cynical, but he obviously is successful as an architect and a developer. i have seen some of his stuff that was built not-so-well, but some of it is really beautiful. in the long run, if you are serious about giving development a shot, 800 dollars isn't really a huge amount of money. and why should he give this info away for free? he's spent his whole career figuring this stuff out. and as for him being arrogant, that may or may not be true. but what does that have to do with his knowledge and expertise of the subject matter? i'm sure that he would conduct his seminar professionally and make sure you got the info you paid for. and 43n... what book could you buy that would teach you this stuff? seriously, i want to buy it.
if anyone thinks they can learn anything significant about RE development in 1 day seminar then they;re a dumbass. the only thing that works is experience and a good knowledge of real estate finance, not to mention having a good pulse on local market conditions....
don't waste your money...get a RE license instead and start networking
Archasm, I somewhat agree with you - there was a thread here where people recapped on the seminar- and most people were fairly glad that they went. The fact that They also recieved some documents to take home with them also seems positive. But there's only so much you can learn in a day and I think this would give you a decent start but it'll only be a start.
As for books, I have been trying to look these up as well- in the UK, there are a couple that talk about property development in general, including valuation and apprisals, etc... But on top of that I'm not so sure myself. To a certain extent, like deviantC said, it's a matter of just getting ou there ,trying to do it.
I just returned from his seminar and felt that for me it was very much worth my $. You don't need a finance or RE background to do this stuff - small scale development is not a big leap from what we as architects already do. We're pretty well educated as it is. His seminar just fills in a lot of the technical details of contracts, proformas, insurance and so on.And, honestly, getting all of it in one afternoon was pretty efficient.
I'm sure the cynical posters above must be satisfied with life in their cubicles (or in school looking ahead to that life), but after studying and working with the best this profession has to offer. I've been eager to find a business model where I feel both valued and relevant as an architect and can do good for my community. I believe that conventional practice doesn't accomplish that without outside financial support, which I personally don't have.
This guy is explaining his business model that allows architects to effectively realize returns for the expertise we have, instead of giving it away at an undervalued price which is what most of us are forced to do.
At the end of the day no one-day seminar is going to give you all you need to do anything, but Segal gave this group a really comprehensive download of what's worked for him.
I agree with SELLOUT. I went yesterday and it was MORE than worth it, i'd recommend it to anyone.
The amount of information he gave on his business model and practice was invaluable. The $600 or so I paid was chump change compared to what it would cost me to learn this stuff through trial and error.
I recommend EVERYONE who wants to do something greater and more rewarding with architecture attend the next seminar and soak the information up.
1DeviantC-
besides your childish 'dumbass' comment, i think you may be better served knowing a little bit about what you're talking about before criticizing it.
My money wasn't wasted at all.
Segal gave insight as to how Architects and Architects ONLY have an advantage in development by already being building professionals. I won't relay the information on here because you obviously don't have the drive or motivation to learn it, but I suggest having a more accepting viewpoint of the possibilities out there for us.
put into perspective this way:
Eating out in DC 12 times @ $50 = $600 (waste of money?)
Commuting to DC in a car instead of public transportation = waste of money?
Surfing the web at work an hour a day in billable hours (intern arch @ $90/hr = $600 in 6 days wasted?
Segal's seminar = knowledge gained, motivation to do something, basis of building a business with architecture
It was a value at $600 - would've taken a lot more than 8 hours of library and web time to figure all this stuff out on my own. Not to mention whatever mistakes his insights might've spared me.
Are you going to take the plunge and do this, impala?
I started my first project, a duplex, a few months ago.
After this seminar I've got a burning motivation to go for something bigger, a small apartment building. I have investors already so I guess its time to find that property and start scheming!
For me, not yet, but I hope to get something going next year. I've been saving $ to invest and support myself, and also have begun the conversation with potential investors. I'd just rather start than juggle this alongside my dayjob. I'm like you though in wanting to get going after yesterday. I hope to start with a 4-plex or maybe something slightly larger if I can afford the deal.
You really must've gotten a lot out of it, since you have a project under your belt. With investors lined up - I'd say definitely start scheming! Good luck!
Background: Bossman paid for the whole firm to go. He’s got a development company that feeds some work to the arch branch, and wanted the rest of us to have a better understanding of what was involved and what’s coming.
Overall: worthwhile, for some.
None of us went into it looking for a get rich quick seminar…but it seemed like some folks there were…a lot of dejected, anxious looking people.
There’s a lot that’s appealing about segal’s approach…very streamlined, low paperwork, eliminate anything that takes an inordinate amount of time, do just enough to get it done - that kind of thing. I got the distinct impression that he cuts corners…didn’t really seem like a “build it right” kinda guy. What I do really like: the guy who draws it is the guy who builds it. Archicad for take offs and estimating.
Most disappointing: it’s almost an all or nothing approach. There’s very little that could be adapted to an arch firm looking to develop anything other than small duplex / multifamily rentals, or if you don’t want to do the construction yourself.
Also, the food was terrible; we went elsewhere for both meals when we saw the sugary crap they put out. Seriously…no bottled water and one 5gal water cooler for 550 people who paid $500-800 each?
Interesting that holz says the buildings look a little crappy /substandard... isn't Segal's main point to OWN the buildings himself? I wouldn't think he'd want poor quality....?
Try to think as a developer and property owner, and a businessman.
The cheaper these are to build, the sooner they turn profit.
Would you put granite countertops and Nana walls in a rental property? Hell no! Maybe once you own a rental you'll understand.
His buildings have:
-rented easily and for 40% more per sq/ft than comparable area rentals
-turned profit very quickly
-won awards and honors from all over
-made him a wealthy man
I'm not seeing where there are any negatives. The buildings served their purpose.
American architects are a little too obsessed with perfection that's impossible to achieve today unless you are building for the super elite.
His work is a bit rough around the edges just like most architecture in the US but clearly the construction quality isn't undermining the integrity of his investment - he has very low turnover and occupants are paying a premium over the cookie-cutter competition.
Looking at it as an architect, I'd say he's created space that both shelters and inspires people. Isn't that what we all want to do? And is it so bad to be compensated for it?
i debated whether or not to take this seminar, my over riding concern stems from the perception that his "money" is made more from the seminar, than an actual practice of his seminar? how many projects has he completed? is this methodology still applicable in today's environs? what does he have ramping up now? has he limited his portfolio and living off what is currently built? and, lastly, is this like those "other" RE seminars, you know the ones that air late night commercials, with the asian guy and the hot blondes on speed boats?
I think a distinction needs to be made between architecture and an architectural product. I think that his rentals are the latter. However I know he is capable of the former by seeing his non-rental projects. He knows he is building cheap and its as if he is not allowing his architect ego to allow him to make bad business decisions. In a way i think its something we should all learn - how to separate the ego from the building, especially when it leads to foolish financial decisions.
betadine-
the $ he makes from the seminar is pennies compared to what he's made from his buildings.
he's completed around 19 projects if i remember correctly.
he's got a larger mixed use building called the "Q" ramping up now.
it took segal 18 (6,570 days) years to achieve his "worth" of $50,000,000.
in less than a full day's work (2 seminars @ 7-ish hours) he increased his wealth by almost a million dollars. there aren't too many gigs in this world that can do that, legally.
you say pennies.
but it's quite the gimmick.
"Listen, here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in the first half hour at the table, then you arethe sucker"
if you choose to be so closed minded, and refuse to believe that he actually has something useful to say, then that's your problem.
i am also pretty sure that he had to pay something to rent the space, print out materials, pay staff, and even if the food was bad it cost something.
i just don't understand why your mind is closed to the possibility that the seminar was worthwhile, when everyone who posted that went said it was absolutely worth it?
Look, these pricey seminars happen in other industries all the time for a lot more than $600. When you have valuable information to share this is what you can do.
It was not a get rich quick thing by any stretch. It was a very practical download of the practicalities around architects being developers.since this is a business model without much precedent - he had a lot of insights worth paying for.
As impala mentions - this seminar is chump change.I'm sure he was somewhat motivated to share because it's an easy way to make $ off his efforts, but it's clear that he's doing the seminars because he believes that architects should benefit directly from the value we bring to the process.
There is another lengthy thread about him on archinect, with a post that links to a lecture he gave at the U of TN. It's a great overview of how he works. The seminar starts there but gives the practical details on how he works.
the question is this; out of the 550 in attendance how many will profit from this scheme? does he honestly want to create his own competition? or, does he know, like the other RE get rich quick people, that it's intent is not to create a host of Segal-trons, but to collect monies from the willing masses?
show me where i said i was close minded and didn't believe he had anything to say. i never said that. i said his work wasn't ageing well. i know that the had to pay rental fees and staffing, the food wasn't free.
bill clinton doesn't even get those kinds of speaker's fees...
sellout, impala, it seems to me that some people would rather talk themselves out of doing something great than taking a real risk and opening your mind to new and real possibilities. if he ever does another seminar, i'm there. if the rest of you are happy getting overworked/underpaid and unappreciated, congratulations on realizing all your wildest fantasies.
I can't estimate how many people are going to take what they learned and run with it. But, I imagine very few - starting a business especially one that's unprecedented is hard stuff. Howevwer, I was already going to do it and his info helped fill in a lot of gaps in my understanding.
BTW- My mom's company paid $1000 for her to see Bill Clinton give a lecture on leadership. I don't think she's going to run for president and I don't think he's making less in speaking engagements than Segal!
I’ve got to get back to detailing this project for the city of seattle. Cos public work doesn’t take much risk, and there definitely isn’t the possibility of doing something great.
my mom's co sent her to see bill clinton speak back in 2006, he made $350k, but was speaking to over 3000 people.
also, the people doing similar things, coicidentally, worked for segal and segal-types... i.e. they got paid to learn (at least in s.d. county)
ted smith>lloyd russel
jonathan segal>sebastian mariscal
Jonathan Segal Developer Seminar in DC
There were mixed comments in the thread about his LA seminar awhile back. However, it still seems promising and I'm considering attending his seminar this Sunday.
Anyone else going?
i guess the info would be nice but $795 sounds like a racket
... i'd wait for a book
this dude is an a-hole. i wouldn't let him pay ME to tell me about development. he's arrogant and selfish and won't teach you anything you cannot read for yourself in a book.
i went down to a whale's vajay-jay (san diego) and had a tour of some of his projects.
was amazed at how poorly they were aging, despite being in a fairly non-hostile environment and fairly recent...
as long as he gets the awards before the building falls apart
So, you're big big fan, holz?
I like the concept generally... but a $795 reeks of the carlton-sheets-live-from-my-yacht seminar mode.
before i visited any of the work, yes. the idea and photos were very seductive
d-bag city
I've always thought that if you spend 800 bucks on a one day seminar like this, you probaby would make a great developer... Just doesn't seem like a wise financial decision.
ive heard of very few people (any?) get rich from books/seminars like these, but ive seen many get wealthy by selling such schemes...
Btw, I meant ....probably would NOT make a great developer....
I might start a seminar series for people who want to become rich by running seminars for people who want to become rich developers.
it's pretty easy to be cynical, but he obviously is successful as an architect and a developer. i have seen some of his stuff that was built not-so-well, but some of it is really beautiful. in the long run, if you are serious about giving development a shot, 800 dollars isn't really a huge amount of money. and why should he give this info away for free? he's spent his whole career figuring this stuff out. and as for him being arrogant, that may or may not be true. but what does that have to do with his knowledge and expertise of the subject matter? i'm sure that he would conduct his seminar professionally and make sure you got the info you paid for. and 43n... what book could you buy that would teach you this stuff? seriously, i want to buy it.
sellout- did you end up going?
if anyone thinks they can learn anything significant about RE development in 1 day seminar then they;re a dumbass. the only thing that works is experience and a good knowledge of real estate finance, not to mention having a good pulse on local market conditions....
don't waste your money...get a RE license instead and start networking
Archasm, I somewhat agree with you - there was a thread here where people recapped on the seminar- and most people were fairly glad that they went. The fact that They also recieved some documents to take home with them also seems positive. But there's only so much you can learn in a day and I think this would give you a decent start but it'll only be a start.
As for books, I have been trying to look these up as well- in the UK, there are a couple that talk about property development in general, including valuation and apprisals, etc... But on top of that I'm not so sure myself. To a certain extent, like deviantC said, it's a matter of just getting ou there ,trying to do it.
I just returned from his seminar and felt that for me it was very much worth my $. You don't need a finance or RE background to do this stuff - small scale development is not a big leap from what we as architects already do. We're pretty well educated as it is. His seminar just fills in a lot of the technical details of contracts, proformas, insurance and so on.And, honestly, getting all of it in one afternoon was pretty efficient.
I'm sure the cynical posters above must be satisfied with life in their cubicles (or in school looking ahead to that life), but after studying and working with the best this profession has to offer. I've been eager to find a business model where I feel both valued and relevant as an architect and can do good for my community. I believe that conventional practice doesn't accomplish that without outside financial support, which I personally don't have.
This guy is explaining his business model that allows architects to effectively realize returns for the expertise we have, instead of giving it away at an undervalued price which is what most of us are forced to do.
At the end of the day no one-day seminar is going to give you all you need to do anything, but Segal gave this group a really comprehensive download of what's worked for him.
I agree with SELLOUT. I went yesterday and it was MORE than worth it, i'd recommend it to anyone.
The amount of information he gave on his business model and practice was invaluable. The $600 or so I paid was chump change compared to what it would cost me to learn this stuff through trial and error.
I recommend EVERYONE who wants to do something greater and more rewarding with architecture attend the next seminar and soak the information up.
1DeviantC-
besides your childish 'dumbass' comment, i think you may be better served knowing a little bit about what you're talking about before criticizing it.
My money wasn't wasted at all.
Segal gave insight as to how Architects and Architects ONLY have an advantage in development by already being building professionals. I won't relay the information on here because you obviously don't have the drive or motivation to learn it, but I suggest having a more accepting viewpoint of the possibilities out there for us.
put into perspective this way:
Eating out in DC 12 times @ $50 = $600 (waste of money?)
Commuting to DC in a car instead of public transportation = waste of money?
Surfing the web at work an hour a day in billable hours (intern arch @ $90/hr = $600 in 6 days wasted?
Segal's seminar = knowledge gained, motivation to do something, basis of building a business with architecture
Well said, Impalajunkie!
It was a value at $600 - would've taken a lot more than 8 hours of library and web time to figure all this stuff out on my own. Not to mention whatever mistakes his insights might've spared me.
Are you going to take the plunge and do this, impala?
I started my first project, a duplex, a few months ago.
After this seminar I've got a burning motivation to go for something bigger, a small apartment building. I have investors already so I guess its time to find that property and start scheming!
What about you?
That's fantastic!
For me, not yet, but I hope to get something going next year. I've been saving $ to invest and support myself, and also have begun the conversation with potential investors. I'd just rather start than juggle this alongside my dayjob. I'm like you though in wanting to get going after yesterday. I hope to start with a 4-plex or maybe something slightly larger if I can afford the deal.
You really must've gotten a lot out of it, since you have a project under your belt. With investors lined up - I'd say definitely start scheming! Good luck!
Background: Bossman paid for the whole firm to go. He’s got a development company that feeds some work to the arch branch, and wanted the rest of us to have a better understanding of what was involved and what’s coming.
Overall: worthwhile, for some.
None of us went into it looking for a get rich quick seminar…but it seemed like some folks there were…a lot of dejected, anxious looking people.
There’s a lot that’s appealing about segal’s approach…very streamlined, low paperwork, eliminate anything that takes an inordinate amount of time, do just enough to get it done - that kind of thing. I got the distinct impression that he cuts corners…didn’t really seem like a “build it right” kinda guy. What I do really like: the guy who draws it is the guy who builds it. Archicad for take offs and estimating.
Most disappointing: it’s almost an all or nothing approach. There’s very little that could be adapted to an arch firm looking to develop anything other than small duplex / multifamily rentals, or if you don’t want to do the construction yourself.
Also, the food was terrible; we went elsewhere for both meals when we saw the sugary crap they put out. Seriously…no bottled water and one 5gal water cooler for 550 people who paid $500-800 each?
yeah. i can see that.
Please! I think you'd see the same number of dejected and anxious at an aia convention.
What I thought was weird was that the room was 95 percent guys!
true. I noticed maybe 20 women in the entire crowd of 500+.
550 people...?? Crickey!
Is it try he has a cape? And that he flies in on the stage?
No, but it'd true his net worth is around $50million and other architects want to learn how he achieved that.
You ever heard how insane the Berkshire-Hathaway shareholder conferences are?
People want to be wealthy.
Interesting that holz says the buildings look a little crappy /substandard... isn't Segal's main point to OWN the buildings himself? I wouldn't think he'd want poor quality....?
guys, we think like architects.
Try to think as a developer and property owner, and a businessman.
The cheaper these are to build, the sooner they turn profit.
Would you put granite countertops and Nana walls in a rental property? Hell no! Maybe once you own a rental you'll understand.
His buildings have:
-rented easily and for 40% more per sq/ft than comparable area rentals
-turned profit very quickly
-won awards and honors from all over
-made him a wealthy man
I'm not seeing where there are any negatives. The buildings served their purpose.
Ooh, now I'm not quite sure what to make of that lst post, impala.
Sounds a little sales-pitchy. I don't need to see Nana or granite, all I'm asking is about holz's perception -- are the buildings quality, or not?
Also...are you sure about what I don't own?
should say "last" post...^
American architects are a little too obsessed with perfection that's impossible to achieve today unless you are building for the super elite.
His work is a bit rough around the edges just like most architecture in the US but clearly the construction quality isn't undermining the integrity of his investment - he has very low turnover and occupants are paying a premium over the cookie-cutter competition.
Looking at it as an architect, I'd say he's created space that both shelters and inspires people. Isn't that what we all want to do? And is it so bad to be compensated for it?
i debated whether or not to take this seminar, my over riding concern stems from the perception that his "money" is made more from the seminar, than an actual practice of his seminar? how many projects has he completed? is this methodology still applicable in today's environs? what does he have ramping up now? has he limited his portfolio and living off what is currently built? and, lastly, is this like those "other" RE seminars, you know the ones that air late night commercials, with the asian guy and the hot blondes on speed boats?
I think a distinction needs to be made between architecture and an architectural product. I think that his rentals are the latter. However I know he is capable of the former by seeing his non-rental projects. He knows he is building cheap and its as if he is not allowing his architect ego to allow him to make bad business decisions. In a way i think its something we should all learn - how to separate the ego from the building, especially when it leads to foolish financial decisions.
betadine- do a google search!
:)
betadine-
the $ he makes from the seminar is pennies compared to what he's made from his buildings.
he's completed around 19 projects if i remember correctly.
he's got a larger mixed use building called the "Q" ramping up now.
again, all answered by google also. haha
pennies my ass..
550 x $600 = $330,000
$330,000 / 7 hours = $47,000 per hour.
you guys yourselces said there wasn't any decent food or water...
ack i can't speak or spell today.
yes, pennies.
$50,000,000 vs. $330,000.
thats not even 1%. haha
it took segal 18 (6,570 days) years to achieve his "worth" of $50,000,000.
in less than a full day's work (2 seminars @ 7-ish hours) he increased his wealth by almost a million dollars. there aren't too many gigs in this world that can do that, legally.
you say pennies.
but it's quite the gimmick.
"Listen, here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in the first half hour at the table, then you arethe sucker"
if you choose to be so closed minded, and refuse to believe that he actually has something useful to say, then that's your problem.
i am also pretty sure that he had to pay something to rent the space, print out materials, pay staff, and even if the food was bad it cost something.
i just don't understand why your mind is closed to the possibility that the seminar was worthwhile, when everyone who posted that went said it was absolutely worth it?
Look, these pricey seminars happen in other industries all the time for a lot more than $600. When you have valuable information to share this is what you can do.
It was not a get rich quick thing by any stretch. It was a very practical download of the practicalities around architects being developers.since this is a business model without much precedent - he had a lot of insights worth paying for.
As impala mentions - this seminar is chump change.I'm sure he was somewhat motivated to share because it's an easy way to make $ off his efforts, but it's clear that he's doing the seminars because he believes that architects should benefit directly from the value we bring to the process.
There is another lengthy thread about him on archinect, with a post that links to a lecture he gave at the U of TN. It's a great overview of how he works. The seminar starts there but gives the practical details on how he works.
the question is this; out of the 550 in attendance how many will profit from this scheme? does he honestly want to create his own competition? or, does he know, like the other RE get rich quick people, that it's intent is not to create a host of Segal-trons, but to collect monies from the willing masses?
show me where i said i was close minded and didn't believe he had anything to say. i never said that. i said his work wasn't ageing well. i know that the had to pay rental fees and staffing, the food wasn't free.
bill clinton doesn't even get those kinds of speaker's fees...
sellout, impala, it seems to me that some people would rather talk themselves out of doing something great than taking a real risk and opening your mind to new and real possibilities. if he ever does another seminar, i'm there. if the rest of you are happy getting overworked/underpaid and unappreciated, congratulations on realizing all your wildest fantasies.
yawn.
I can't estimate how many people are going to take what they learned and run with it. But, I imagine very few - starting a business especially one that's unprecedented is hard stuff. Howevwer, I was already going to do it and his info helped fill in a lot of gaps in my understanding.
BTW- My mom's company paid $1000 for her to see Bill Clinton give a lecture on leadership. I don't think she's going to run for president and I don't think he's making less in speaking engagements than Segal!
when ever i hear about these seminars i always think of louis theroux documentary on hypnotists...
here's the vid (in a few parts) on youtube...some really good laughs if you have an hour to spare...
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=louistheroux+hypnosis&search_type=&aq=f
video 4/5 at about 4:45 is amazing...
actually 2:30....
Ha! Clowns.
I’ve got to get back to detailing this project for the city of seattle. Cos public work doesn’t take much risk, and there definitely isn’t the possibility of doing something great.
my mom's co sent her to see bill clinton speak back in 2006, he made $350k, but was speaking to over 3000 people.
also, the people doing similar things, coicidentally, worked for segal and segal-types... i.e. they got paid to learn (at least in s.d. county)
ted smith>lloyd russel
jonathan segal>sebastian mariscal
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.