things to do and see in MUNICH??


hi any suggestions, i am going on a short trip there very soon?


Oct 4, 07 2:31 am
Chase Dammtor

i assume you're going to do the requisite/obvious post-1960 architectural tour

1) olympiapark - the wavy roofs from 1972. also go up the olympiaturm for a great view. look at the olympic village from a distance, it's interesting prefab brutal concrete stuff

2) bmw campus - right next to olympiapark. here you will see the new coop himmelblau delivery center (which may be open already or soon)

3) new soccer stadium by HdM (allianz arena)

4) mall by HdM (fünf höfe), right in the center of town. it is actually not all that interesting, but you should definitely walk all over the center anyways because its a very fun vibrant area, if a bit traditional and touristy.

other than this stuff...

i know it's really, really touristy but hang out for a while at marienplatz. for some reason the 1890s gothic town hall never ceases to wow me, despite my best inclinations as a modernist-trained architect.

also take lots of public transit. make sure you ride the subways enough to get one of the new trains that they've been gradually putting in. you'll know one when you see one. they've been replacing the old ones much slower than i thought they would but these new ones are like a dream. also, i'm wowed by how far below ground the subway is.

oh, i think some of the museums are good too, if you like art.

Oct 4, 07 3:31 am  · 

museums in munic:

pinakothek der moderne
architect: von Braunfels - classic modernism ca. 2002
don't like th archtiecture too much, but nice collection.
I especially recommend the industrial design and architecture collection.

Kunstbau (at the Lenbachhaus)
architect: Uwe Kiessler - remodelling of a left-over space between a subway-station and street-level.
when the subway was built in the 70s they built this space out of technical reasons with the slightly curved shape as the station beneath. In the 90s they opened it up and made it into a gallery.

Sammlung Goetz
early project by HdM, diffcult to find and open only by appointment. But I highly reccomend it.
Because of the size of the project you are able to explore it in detail.

Oct 4, 07 5:23 am  · 

beer halls, especially hoftbrauhaus.

Oct 4, 07 5:52 am  · 

thanks!!....will try to do as much as possible in 4 days

Oct 4, 07 7:43 am  · 

(not architectural, but one of those only-place-where-you-can-do-it things)
The royal treasury within the Residenz, supposedly the most valuable collection of state jewels (crowns, holy relics, etc.) in Europe. It's not often that one is in the presence of so many real gems.

FYI: the rolling hills adjacent the OlympicPark are the "soot hill"--the accumulated debris of Munich's WWII bombings.

Oct 4, 07 8:17 am  · 
Chase Dammtor

i'm not sure if phat is being facetious, but hofbräuhaus is absurdly touristy. it's worth a look inside just to see the complex and the extent of what they do. and it does, or at least seems to,carry on in an authentic manner. but 98% of people there are tourists. there's other places in town to get beers that are a little more locally-frequented.

Oct 4, 07 10:01 am  · 

I have only been once, but it was in the fall and marienplaz was full of crafts-booths and vendors for the holiday season. Yes, it's a touristy area but you will find some beautiful handmade items and other crafts. Not to mention beer-and-bratwurst stands every 20 feet or so (most affordable lunch).
I agree that the public transit is a must - also the underground public spaces/shopping malls they link into.
If you have time for museums, I really enjoyed the science museum. Some exhibits are geared toward kids, but they have tangible displays/sections on all types of industry, engineering and science. Worth the $ of admission.

Oct 4, 07 10:11 am  · 

bmw world
Coop himmelblau
Lerchenauer str., Georg Brauchle Ring

staab architekten
service center
Theresienwiese, Matthias-Pschorr-Str. 4

allman sattler wappner
Lachnerstr. 8, muenchen

herzog + de meuron
Herrnstr. 42-44

sammlung goetz
103 Oberföhringer str., Michl-Ehbauer-Weg, Oberföhring

andreas meck/meck architekten
church + youth center

andreas meck/stephan koppel

i have the addresses of the meck architekten projects. i'll find them and throw them at you later, along with some other, lesser known but equally interesting projects.

Oct 4, 07 11:03 am  · 

The Amalienburg at Nymphenburg Park--a rare manifestation of ultimate Rococo.

The Glyptothek and its contents. Where Florence has David, Munich has the Barberini Faun. Talk about hung over.

Oct 4, 07 11:06 am  · 

along the lines of smallpotatoes and chase dammtor, try to hit the marienplatz area during the day(s?) of victualienmarkt. amazing.

Oct 4, 07 12:03 pm  · 
Chase Dammtor

take a stroll through the englischer garten...

go hang out at the hauptbahnhof and look at the cool trains

there's a pretty extensively interesting grocery in the basement of hertie right next to the hauptbahnhof, although its not nearly as good as the one at kadewe in berlin

the new wing of the airport (and the plaza at the airport) is a huge, white glassy helmut jahn lameosity, but its actually quite a bit nicer than most airports i've been to

touring the bmw factory was pretty interesting

even though munich is not the city of marzipan (that would be lübeck) you can still find it all over, and its so tasty, especially in chocolate.




if you're into avant-garde ice cream, there's a really interesting place on some side street down by (but not actually really near) the hofbräuhaus


Oct 4, 07 12:39 pm  · 

Modes - Everybody pretty much has sumed up what to see, so I'll give my two cents about the food. If you eat meat you must get the weisswurst. It's a regional wurst, that I'm not sure you can find elsewhere in Germany. Buy a Bretzel (soft preztel), with or without butter. Both ways are quite yummy. The voll Korn Brott (full grain bread) is also excellent. Damn I wish I could find that stuff here. Although it's rather touristy, the Löwenbräu Hofbrauhaus is kinda fun to visit. Every 15 minutes the lion sculpture outside roars "Löwenbräu". It wasn't until half way through my mass bier (liter o'beer) that I could acutally make out what he was saying.
If any of the ice cream cafes are open, that's something you've also got to try. Most german ice cream places are actually owned by Italians. My mouth is watering just thinking about it.
Enjoy and have fun. Tschußchen.

Oct 4, 07 1:00 pm  · 
allman sattler wappner

Haus der Gegenwart
Georg-Kerschensteinerstr. 55

Wohn- und Geschäftshaus Nymphenburger Str. 125/127

truderinger str. 10

nagler architekten
Ökomenisches Kirchenzentrum in München Riem
Platz der Menschenrechte 1-3

joseph-wild-strasse 13

Schneider + Schumacher
KIJU - Kinder- und Jugendfreizeitstätte

Studio for Architektur
Parkhaus Salvatorgarage
Salvatorstraße 13

Unterlandstättner Schmöller Architekten
Pfarrhaus St. Mauritius
templestrasse 5

Wandel, Hoefer und Lorch
Jüdische Zentrum Jakobsplatz

Otto-Steidle-Ateliers auf der Theresienhöhe
Ganghoferstraße 61

hild +k

bauzentrum + parkhaus riem
Willy-Brandt-Allee 15, München Riem

Baumschlager & Eberle
Münchener Rück
Königinstrasse 107

meck architekten
cemetery/friedhof (from above)
Straße am Mitterfeld 68

Kirchenweg 3

fink + jocher
mixed use bldg
sanierungsblock 1, westend

student housing @ TU Muenchen

thomas herzog, (and several other projects)
WA 1 (housing)

Berschneider + Berschneider
Museum Lothar Fischer
Rathausplatz 1, 92318 Neumarkt

Dieter Kubina
Haus der Architektur
Waisenhausstraße 4

Eck-Fehmi-Zett Architekten
Stockholmstraße 5

horden cherry lee
o2 village
Grasmeierstraße 7

Oct 4, 07 1:34 pm  · 

thanks for all the great info, i really appreciate it.
one other or funky places to stay?
any advice??

Oct 4, 07 1:37 pm  · 
Ludwig got you pretty covered, with addresses and everything, excellent contribution.
If you happen to have a car go and enjoy the mountains one day or go to a lake.

.... oh I think everyone forgot a building. The aviary in the zoo ( Frei otto with Buro Happold)
and keeping with the "mesh and nature theme" in the fuenf hoefe try to go into the private residential courtyard, its got a great textile facade and mound garden of such artificiality while using nature. Only H&dM can do it like that.

One more thing, you can also visit the Academy of Fine Arts extension - Coop Himmelblau. Akademiestraße 2 station Universitaet.

Oct 4, 07 2:08 pm  · 

yeah! it been great response from all the contributors.
yes... we will have a car and drive to Zumthor's Therme Vals a few hours away...i have to check it out.

Oct 4, 07 4:16 pm  · 

i can send address of things worth seeing betwixt the two... email me

Oct 4, 07 4:37 pm  · 

If I was in Munich with a car I'd drive out to Altötting and then to Schloss Peising to finally meet the Baron von Ow and see the Chinese Room and then play a few rounds on his golf course.

Thanks to this thread, I and the von Ow family cook during WWII were just discussing when we might get some Weisswurst from the authentic German deli just down the road. I'm thinking next week.

Oct 4, 07 4:47 pm  · 

If you are driving from Munich to Vals, you go via Bregenz and visit the Kunsthaus, and for an extra sweet add-on get to see the Peter Zumthor life work exhibition there, occupying the whole gallery.

Oct 4, 07 5:00 pm  · 

I am making a google map with all the contributions posted here.
Go to the Google Map Tour Guide Central.

Oct 4, 07 5:02 pm  · 
Chase Dammtor

any good firms to work for in munich? i'm thinking of moving. there or berlin. maybe hamburg.

Oct 4, 07 9:21 pm  · 

how well is your german and what level of experience do you have? are you willing to take a significant pay cut?

bayerische architektenkammer
architektenkammer berlin
hamburgische architektenkammer


meine liste:
allmann sattler wappner
florian nagler
andreas meck
peck + daam
herzog + partner
fink + jocher
brueckner + brueckner
karl + probst
auer + weber

i worked in germany for a guy that loved working at auer + weber. i think p2an worked there but might not have enjoyed it so much, he might be able to provide more insight into that firm. except for the first 4 or 5, i couldn't live in muenchen, not really my scene. i'd rather be in switzerland or berlin.

Oct 5, 07 1:18 am  · 

i was in germany for 2 years, all of the time in stuttgart, most at behnisch and then 6 months freelance at auer+weber to work on a specific project.

i actually loved my worktime in germany, great experience, amazing projects and work vibe in behnisch was great (thankfully because we did work quite alot then). a+w was hectic and not so rewarding but that was due to the project not the place.

i moved to NL 4 years ago, as did many germany architects because the economy was so bad, now however things are looking up, mucg more job adverts for architects. city wise hamburg seems busiest, berlin although maybe the coolest place to live has not been the easiest place to get a decent salary (but living is cheap there).

re the language, of course it helps, but depending on the office you may be able too function with little german. salaries generally i found pretty high.

any specific questions - let me know

Oct 5, 07 2:45 am  · 

modes, i am also visiting the zumthor exhibition on my way down to vals (4th time - so yes - go!!) in november. really looking fwd to that.
also staying at it nouvel's luzern hotel. nice to enjoy a bit of luxury now and again.

Oct 5, 07 2:54 am  · 

and if driving from bregenz to vals then you can pick up the
liechtenstein kunstmuseum by Morger Degelo/Kerez along the way.


Oct 5, 07 3:24 am  · 
Oct 5, 07 3:25 am  · 
Chase Dammtor

i can speak german well enough to get by in an office and i pick up langugages quickly, so that shouldn't be an issue.

what do you mean pay cut? how much do they get paid there?

Oct 5, 07 10:21 am  · 

how many years experience do you have?

Oct 5, 07 10:26 am  · 

Back to munich:

- Added more information about the buildings in the Olympiapark.
- BMW tower and museum / Karl Schwanzer
- Hochhaus Uptown München / Ingenhoven Architekten
- Brandhorst Museum / Sauerbruch Hutton
- A number of museums
- Siemens Forum / Richard Meier
- Hypo-Haus / Betz Architekten
- Theresienhoehe quarter - Steidle & Partner
- Unterföhring Park Village / MVRDV

All these buildings are now in the google map.

Oct 5, 07 11:12 am  · 

awesome. thanks ludwig. maybe one day i'll update the seattle listings...

i had 1.5 years experience when i moved to germany. i cleared about 1000 euros a month which covered expenses but barely. rent wasn't cheap where i lived. german co-workers of equal level of experience got paid a little less, which produced a riff. also, i was contracted for an extended period of time, whereas most of the german employees would get a 4-6 month contract and an extension was rare.

Oct 5, 07 11:19 am  · 

thanks ludwig

Oct 5, 07 6:25 pm  · 
Chase Dammtor

im about to get my masters. 1.5 years work experience before that so far.

1000 euros / month = $16000/year. I dont think anyone here (USA) would work for that. Although if that's after taxes and includes both health insurance and a pension, that's not so bad, actually pretty close to my $29,000 USA (pre-tax, no benefits) salary. Also, if i lived in Berlin (instead of expensive Munich), I could pay 300 euros/month to live in a nice place, take transit (so I wouldn't need a car), probably could get by on 1000 per months just fine. Although that wouldn't leave much for savings, loan payments, vacations, buying a condo... wow how come architects in germany get paid so much less than low-paid american architects? That almost doesn't seem worth it... as much as I want to move there.

Oct 6, 07 2:10 am  · 

chase, that was just my experience. actually worked out well for me, i had a few friends that went to the NL and were making 300-400 euros a month.

for me, that was after taxes, did not include health insurance, i had to get my own. berlin is realtively inexpensive, you can actually go lower than 300 euros, but the neighborhood might not be what you are used to.

and i think one of the reasons architects in german can get paid so little is that for a time, there were more german architects than most of the e.u. combined.

but i guarantee it'd be worth it. the experience alone for me has been invaluable and opened up doors to firms i probably had no right to interview with. it also exposed me to a lot of really strong work, made travel readily accessible and i met amazing people.

p2an, care to build on that?

Oct 6, 07 2:32 pm  · 

IMO it was also totally and without a doubt worth it, i also took home not much more than 1000/month but found that ample.
there was 3 of us sharing a huge apartment that was 550 total/month. transport costs were nil, took bike to the office. holidays were really cheap because i was so close to switzerland, france uk etc.

so i guess as much as ppl like to try and compare - we are talking about such different place/lifestyles that it is very hard to do that.
and lets face it all the german architects are getting by, sure they complain a bit (like everybody else) but on the whole i found the conditions and more importantly - the quality of life - very high.

and as holz mentioned, the effect of doing time in some good german offices certainly helped when i moved to NL.

as i have mentioned before on archinect, i am huge fan of moving around and working in other countries. so if you are in a situation where that is possible, then go for it. and of course it isnt impossible to do when you have a family/kids etc, but definitely it is easier when you are only trying to fend for yourself.

Oct 6, 07 2:49 pm  · 

quality of life, that really hits it on the head. seattle's a wasteland in comparison. biking to work is great, as long as you don't get your tires stuck in a tram line whilst texting. i was close enough to walk, but i also paid through the teeth to have a killer apartment in the altstadt.

also, i would really kill for a properly made doener right now.

p2an, how's your german/dutch/frysian? i'd imagine after 3+ years pretty solid.

Oct 6, 07 2:59 pm  · 
Chase Dammtor

well, that sounds okay then. next question: in comparison to young american architecture who often work 60-100 hours per week, and only get 2 weeks vacation, how much do young german architects work? Do they stick to the standard german 40 hours / week plus six weeks vacation?? That alone might make it worth it.

Oct 6, 07 7:50 pm  · 

i don't know anyone who works 100 hours, and that includes people at the better firms here in seattle and nyc.

50 hours is the most i've ever had to work stateside unless there was some major crunch.

our firm had really wierd hours and benefits.

we'd start at 10, and quitting time was when on of the bosses would go home, though most people left around 8. which was great, cos i'd stay out til 3 or 4 a.m. most every night.

and no one got 6 weeks vacation except the principles. a week or two here, but there were no extended vacations. it was more like, "that's nice. how about we don't re-up your contract and you can take an extended vacation"

i had to do all my travelling over weekends with a day or two off here and there.

Oct 6, 07 8:00 pm  · 

One thing we did when we were in Munich that had an amazing impact on me was going to Dachau. There's no other place that is more overwhelming.

Dec 15, 07 8:12 pm  · 

Dachau was very powerful. Auschwitz is gut-wrenching.

Recently there have been several architects that have done some amazing projects in concetration camps.

Dec 15, 07 8:26 pm  · 
Chase Dammtor

Brace yourself though for busloads of schoolchildren who are often insensitive to the place.

Dec 15, 07 8:30 pm  · 

We're planning a winter drive from Munich through the Tyrol to Zumthor's Thermal Baths.

Any sense of how long this drive will take? Anything to worry about (snow conditions, difficulty of getting o Vals in winter, etc.)

Dec 16, 07 11:23 am  · 

Take a look at the "Alte Pinakothek." A building that helped shape today's understanding of how to work with historic buildings. Hans Döllgast reconstructed the museum that had been damaged in the II. World War. Take a look at the main staircase leading to the galleries.

It is right next to the "Pinakothek der Moderne," which you will probably go and see. I personally don't admire this one very much - full of gargantuan axial symbolisms and misused historic tropes. Very inhospitable galleries.

Dec 16, 07 11:55 am  · 

Vals: Just a reminder, I believe you need a reservation to go inside the spa.

Dec 16, 07 11:57 am  · 

My personal H&D favorite is the Kunstgalerie Goetz in Munich-Oberföhring.

Also, get tickets to a soccer game at the stadium. For Euro 20 you can get in. There are many good places to stand and watch the game in the concessions area.

Dec 16, 07 12:01 pm  · 

the route via tirol - are you doing this to see the austrian alps + innsbruck?

an easier method (and a path offering more to see) would be to take the E54 west from munich, which links you up with the E43 and takes you into vorarlberg (which is loaded w/ architecture):

Vaduz, LI (for the KMLiechtenstein in Vaduz)
Chur - several zumthor projects
Flims - Olgiatti
Vals - therme vals
Sumvitg - zumthor chapel

spending a night at the therme allows unlimited access to the spa.
the driving this time of year can be treacherous, especialy at night. i visited vals in the late fall and it wasn't too rough. just don't do anything dumb like rent a smart car.

Dec 16, 07 3:12 pm  · 

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