western michigan is a lot better off than eastern michigan. i'd start there.

hey cryzko, i know it's been said many times before, but i think downtown is about to explode. there is currently a fairly big movement of capital from the suburbs to downtown. the neuman-smith building off of campus martius just had tenants move into three floors. all signs point to rock financial building on the statler site. it was reported yesterday the troy-based hq of bank of america is in discussions to move downtown. in addition you have the book-cadillac opening within a year.

my best advice would be to try to hook up with some of the younger loft developers and help with design and build-out. i think there's money there.

The book cadillac is opening in a year??

yup, it's in construction. has been for about 6 months now. the ferchill group out of cleveland is the developer.

actually the book-cadillac has been under renovation since late august of 2006. it was pretty mashed up when i was there last october.

ohhh and don't forget the new MGM!

A couple months ago there was an article in Forbes magazine that pretty much said Detroit is following the same path as the American car companies...waiting to file bankruptcy then be sold off in parts to the lowest bidders.

I do get a kick out of all the Michigan economic development ads on the tv/radio.

well, as i said, all of michigan isn't that bad. much of it is overshadowed by detroit. and in all honesty, detroit is becoming quite a deal in some ways. you can by land in detroit cheaper than just about anywhere else. strangely enough, you can sell it for millions after you develop it. it can't stay down forever.

the michigan economy (generally speaking) may suck...but downtown detroit is an emergent bright spot. as excerpted from a recent report available via brookings:

Using these market analysis techniques, this report finds the following opportunities in downtown Detroit:

-An increasing downtown population with growing incomes
-Strong, continued demand for residential construction and conversion
-An underserved retail market for groceries and consumer goods such as clothing and clothing accessories, electronics and appliances, building materials and garden equipment, furniture and home furnishings
-A thriving critical mass of urban entertainment venues and quality public space

well, my view from the ground is that it is still definitely emergent. i think the fact that the book-cadillac is actually in construction is a very good sign. the next critical step is rock financial moving downtown. if that happens, i think that trips a lot of dominos. i tend to be incredibly skeptical of detroit. there's usually a lot more talk than action, but i also think now may be a good time to buy in.

I deeply regret that my husband and I could not manage to buy his grandmother's house in Traverse City, MI when she died. Detroit and surround may have problems, but it seems the vacation spots in Michigan are doing quite well. That old economic divide we all hear about getting bigger and yet bigger?

above all, detroit is plagued by the negativity generally associated with detroit...

this is true. and while it is also true that downtown detroit is an emergent spot, last year the population of downtown grand rapids surpassed that of detroit for the first time. despite the negative growth, there are a lot of hot spots in michigan as well.

if i really had a brain, i actually think that i'd open a store in downtown detroit...except i'm really not a retailer. not sure what i'd sell either. maybe a small architecture bookshop except i fear the market wouldn't really support it. it might be interesting to open a fashion boutique and import shoes from roma or some shit like that...

Detroit's problem is that the city has very little business diversity. They hung their hat on the auto industry, which did them quite well in the 50's, but not so much today. In the 70's when things were changing the city should've been actively recruiting business to the area.

Michigan is stuck in a bad place now. To attract the businesses away from the southern states they'll have to give sweetheart deals on taxes & regulations. If they don't Kentucky & Tennessee look a heck of a lot better. If they do, the state budget crisis isn't solved.

Similar states like Wisconsin & Minnesota both have high taxes and regulations but they maintain diverse and healthy economies while Michigan fades. Why? Back in the 60's & 70's those states attracted new business while Michigan was still living the good life off the Big 3.

I am still a Michigan skeptic. Detroit saddens me as they've pretty much abandoned and demolished a once great city.

Just don't sell pants, puddles, unless your hook is that your customers can walk around the store pantless trying things on.

Puddles, you have three arch schools in the Detroit metro area, Lawrence Tech, Univ. of Detroit Mercy, & U of M. Plus there are a lot of social art groups non prof organizations i think the market would support such a bookstore, that's my opinio though.. i miss the D...

i couldn't sell pants if i tried.

does anybody else find it amusing how about every two chryzko puts up these threads asking for someone to buy his stuff and then the rest of us luanch into these "ivory tower/country club" discussions about the state of detroit? kind of cute, isn't it? i think i'll have another mojito...

For what it's worth, cryzko, I'd love to see you get some decent and engaging work!

actually puddles, someone just opened a new sneaker store in harmony park called goat (the greatest of all time). they sell high end sneakers.

well, manufacturing accounts for about a third of michigan's economy, and that isn't all taken up by the auto industry. a lot of the problem is just the reputation of the state, which doesn't even match the reality. now that i've lived in two western states, i've been told a number of times things like "well, i bet you're glad you got out of there." michigan is not the paved over, wretched urban war zone that everyone thinks it is. nor is michigan detroit. most people are surprised when they go to michigan.

for example

yeah, i think that i had already heard about goat...i dont' recall where, but maybe it was here

and i doubt an arch bookshop would work despite the local schools...most student would rather order via internet and downtown detroit is still a hike from any of those campuses for the time-crunched student

le bossman makes a good point that many have a wrong impression of michigan and detroit, especially detroit

...and yes, i do buy high-end sneakers

i actually think ann arbor alone could support such a bookstore. it would definitely work in detroit in my opinion, but not downtown. it would have to be southfield or near ud.

near ud?! have you ever been to ud, bossman?

that's just what fashion ave. needs: an architecture bookstore.

bossman - I've been to Michigan.... I do grant you that western Michigan is a nice place....and that the whole state is far from a "paved over war zone." However, Detroit still dominates the state in population and business. So, for a person looking at Michigan from a Boston or LA insular perspective, it stands to figure the "war zone" of detroit is at the top of their opinions.

four schools of architecture...

no, i have never been there. i understand it can be frightening.

and yes, i know that the d area has more than half the state's population. but my point is they should work harder to emphasize the state's other virtures, which like you said, almost go completely unnoticed.

i wonder how much of an effect attitudes have on economies. last time i was in phoenix, where growth is explosive (and also exaggerated) i kept hearing people proudly boast of phx's metro population of 5 million, though it is actually 2.5 million. rumors of this sort of growth seem to fuel growth, even though the whole state of arizona only has 5 million people, not even as many people as metro detroit and only half of michigan. i've even heard people say tuscan has 5m people, which is rediculous. obviously arizona has assests that michigan doesn't, but it's biggest asset in my first hand experience seems to just be this reputation

LB

had you bought that place in TC, I would come visit. We could go to the Dairy Lodge...soft serve only ;)

my bro lives in michiganistan. he is makin lots of caish.

next time you're in the d, bossman, we'll have to go to livernois for some chicken and waffles and then grab a drink at baker's keyboard lounge.

its a date

i love how so many people refer to metro detroit as detroit. to me, when i refence detroit, i literally mean detroit and i could absolutely care less about most of the subarbs...yet to many outsiders (and even local michiganders) southfield, plymouth, royal oak, etc all count as "detroit"

oddly enough though i do feel that windsor despite being in another country has status above that of the far flung burbs

i love the suburbanites that drive around with their little



sticker.

i heard there some killer titty bars in Windsor

It's not just Detroit that is in trouble. The job market sucks in Saginaw, Flint, and Lansing too. My parents house in now worth less than it was when they bought it in 1992.

aquapura's link to a population list has some interesting data. notably that during the past seventeen years most of the "cities" in michigan have either stagnated or declined in population whereas nearly all of charter townships listed have grown in population, some very rapidly. is michigan an anti-city culture?

I love Mich. It will turn. I have no evidence or factual data to suggest but I feel like a "Great Lakes" economy is emerging with cities such as Detroit, Milwaukee, Chicago, Buffalo, Toronto etc. its a great region that once was tied together by heavy industry, and really still is but with the emergance of Chicago and Toronto as Global cities and financial centers it could be the first steps of a change for the region. I always hate it when people refer to Chicago or Detroit as midwest - its the great lakes.

Anyways, Grand Rapids is one of the largest banking centers in the country. Theres a lot of Money in Mich. and its bound to invest in something.

I'm a Windsorite.

mdler, if you ever stop by, I'll show you the range of titty bars we have.

roadtrip!!!!!!!!!

ps, Go Buckeyes

On a second note, how does one rate the Detroit arch schools?

Both UDM and Lawrence Tech don't require a portfolio.

udm is more design
ltu seems more stagnate/structured....


i could be wrong

hmm...i was accepted to lawrence twice...once out of high school and once when i applied as a backup to my own third year program. i showed them a transcript and they let me in. i didn't even fill out a formal application.

on another note, yes eastcoast i agree the great lakes isn't exactly the midwest. it is where the midwest and the northeast overlap. the great lakes includes new york and pennsylvania, and even the "midwestern" part often has more in common with those states than nebraska or south dakota.

fwiw - one of our regular clients is currently opening TWO high-end restaurants in the big D. we're not doing the work on them...but these guys usually don't go to marginal profit zones so there's gotta be some kind of movement.

though it might have something to do with being in one of the casinos.