If I was a cop and my job was to protect an event where a goverment official (or anyone for that sake) was speaking I don't think I would of done anything different. If I was trying to escort someone out who was causing a disturbance and then they flung there arm around and moved toward the stage I would hope my backup would show up quick. Also if his arms are waving around me and my fellow officers I can't take the chance of him getting hold of our guns, tazers and nightsticks and possibly hurting the speaker, attendees or fellow officers.
In fairness I would warn the person several times that he would get tazered if he didn't stop resisting arrest.
to answer quilan's question...i would give him an extra 30 seconds (maybe even a minute) to go on about his blathering while i watch calmly...as soon as he's done speaking, i'd hit him with a night stick
umm, just why the fuck was he detained in the first place? He asks Kerry a question about skull and bones and the kid gets detained?
Kerry's a piece of shit loser, I feel ashamed of voting for him in the primaries.
That said, cops have a shitty job, and I give them healthy amounts of crap for it I'm just wondering on whose authority that kid had to be detained in the first place.
no, i meant archinect + (you all/free speech)*(george bush/john kerry) = douchebags, but your equation checks out as well. sorry i set up a confusing equation.
Dammson why who ruin the event for everyone. If I go to an event to hear a someone talk I want to hear them talk and not some spoiled internet prankster shoot his mouth off.
umm, just why the fuck was he detained in the first place? He asks Kerry a question about skull and bones and the kid gets detained?
My question exactly, that NONE of you have answered. He was arrested for FREE SPEECH !!! Martin Luther King Jr. is ROLLING OVER in his grave. This is bullshit. Kerry is a shithead for not stopping the cops. And as far as waving his arms??? WTF ?? He has a book in one hand and the other hand is open and not threatening anyone. Were the cops scared of the BOOK ? ? ? maybe.
upon further analysis of more you tube vids, it appears the kid was acting like a bit of an ass (i.e. speachmaking) that's still no reason to detain him though.
66 the guy was not asking a question but went on a ten minute rant. The skull and bones question was right at the end of his rant. The idiot would not have been detained had he left when asked to leave but you start shaking off cops and basically ignoring the cops thats called resisting. And you will and should get arrested for that.
Kerry doing anything? Come on. The guy had just spent 10 minutes ranting and accusing Kerry of everything under the sun and then you expect him to jump in?
The fucking video was only 3 minutes and 33 seconds long dumbass. Half of that was of the guy getting carried off by the cops. Get your watch fixed dipshit.
thats bullshit. he didn't provoke anyone. he was posing questions to Kerry is his own sense. and no, there was no reason to taser him. he was posing no physical threat whatsoever. the big guy could have kept carrying him out of the building and kicked him out. end of story. tasing a man on the ground is bullshit too.
don't play that "cops got it hard" shit either. i have a friend who is a cop in the second highest murder rate city in the USA, baltimore. he chose the job and he knows his boundaries. too many of these assholes go out their and act like they can rule the world with their badges. sorry boss, doesn't go that way.
66 If you can't communicate your ideas without name calling maybe you should keep quite.
eastcoast the guy was causing a disturbance. Those kinds of forums have guidelines when it comes to time and number of questions. This guy was clearly not following the guidelines and disturbing the forum. Also if someone is on the ground and is still resisting arrest they can still cause harm to the public and officers.
Sorry Eastcoast but cops do have it hard. They not only deal with the shit of society all day but then get ranted on by the people they are trying to protect.
Your right it is a choice and their job is not to rule the world but make sure everyone is following the rules. If you don't follow the rules it IS there job to step in.
first, what's excessive force? is the guy hurt at all? or did the taser do its job and temporarily stop him from lashing out until he could be controlled?
Wrong, cops LOVE their jobs. They spend half the day eating donuts and the other half chasing bad guys. They ENJOY it, that's why a lot of my friends who are cops asked to be put in MORE DANGEROUS AREAS around Washington DC. They enjoy the skull-bashing action. They don't want to be a cop in a quiet, peaceful area. Believe me.
It's hard to stand around with the macho testosterone and a badge and let someone exercise Free Speech. If it was South Beach you'd have an entire Gay Parade on your hands and it would be in every Time / Newsweek magazine out there.
Imagine being an architect and YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DRAW, USE CAD, OR SURVEY / DESIGN BUILDINGS ! You'd be a little pent up too. But that's no excuse. Part of their job is restraint. It's part of the training. AND GOOD JUDGEMENT. Not so in this case.
Hi, this site is all about ninjas, REAL NINJAS. This site is awesome. My name is Robert and I can't stop thinking about ninjas. These guys are cool; and by cool, I mean totally sweet.
Facts:
1. Ninjas are mammals.
2. Ninjas fight ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.
one time for like a week i did nothing but review door shop drawings and i TOTALLY wanted to lash out wish some excessive and unrestrained design on everything i saw.. RRAAARRGHH!!!
Who said cops don't love their jobs? Having a hard job doesn't mean you don't like it. Architecture has long hours, unappreciating clients and limited money but I think most of us would agree that we love our jobs.
Restraint? Two officers tried to nudge him out, then pull him out, eventually tried to carry him out and yet he wouldn't leave. At which point the officers should take someone into custody. If you resist and start wrestling with cops additional force should be used. Unless I missed it I didn't see any "skull bashing". The one officer was on the floor with him urging him to stop resisting or he would get tazered. Once out of the hall the officers tried to calm him and no additional force was used. Sounds like good restraint and judgement to me.
Ninjas can kill anyone they want! Ninjas cut off heads ALL the time and don't even think twice about it. These guys are so crazy and awesome that they flip out ALL the time. I heard that there was this ninja who was eating at a diner. And when some dude dropped a spoon the ninja killed the whole town. My friend Mark said that he saw a ninja totally uppercut some kid just because the kid opened a window.
And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you don't believe that ninjas have REAL Ultimate Power you better get a life right now or they will chop your head off!!! It's an easy choice, if you ask me.
Try to actually READ what I typed. I said my friends who are cops in THIS area enjoy the ACTION, and some skull-bashing. I wasn't talking about the guy in Florida. LeBossman better shut his piehole before he gets a throwing star in it. Alfrejas24: Go be "QUITE" and READ A BOOK - READ A BOOK - READ A MUTHAFUCKIN' BOOK !
from what i saw in the video, it seemed they had no call at all to use the taser, sure he was mouthing off and being a general dick, BUT he was not posing a physical threat to the cops - so it was totally uncalled for.
isn't there a difference between 'free speech' and creating a
public disturbance? if he was asked to leave he should've
left...i don't agree with police brutality, but i also don't agree
with people that intentionally create a public disturbance for
their own gain. in certain instances it is legal for a private
event or establishment to ask you to leave.
a senator wearing a tshirt against the war into congress
comes to mind...something like that.
once he resists leaving and specifically resists an officer he
is subject to arrest i believe...and also should stop resisting
once in custody. it's very simple...if a cop has his/her hand
on you you should respect them and what they're saying or
be willing to except the consequences of potential arrest.
(this is a generality of course and is not intended to condone
abuse of power/ brutality etc.)
i don't have much love for the police, but i do my best to respect
them like i would any other person and understand that if i lash
out at them that i should expect to be arrested.
also looking on youtube there seem to be a heck of a lot of
video from a number of different angles...is it possible that
he goaded the police hoping that this would happen? and
had his friends in the audience taping it from a number of
different angles?
i think the police could just as easily use this video for their
own case. it shows him trying to run, pulling his hands away,
screaming/ swearing at the officers, shows the officer verbally
warning him to stop resisting or he will get tasered...well before
it actually happens... you know they're telling him this because
he screams it several times before it happens...in fact it seems
as though he increases his struggles so that it does happen.
66 you obviously need some anger management and have been hanging out with to many of your "skull bashing" donut eating thug friends.
Thread name is Taser incident at UF. But lets state the obvious. You brought up your "skull bashing" buddies to make a generalization about cops and transfer your poor opinions of cops to the UF cops. If you didn't, please start another thread where we can hear all about your "action love'n, skull bashing" friends.
Nice on the "read a book" comment. What are you 16?
I know lars. I read the tread and love the vid but was making note on using a song title and lyrics as a rebuttal. By the way lars you're "g-l-a-m-o-r-o-u-s".
its interesting - from the first video it appears that the cops were planning on removing him anyway - the swinging book didn't go really anywhere near the cops; I think they used this as an excuse to take him out; you can see them placing a call to their superiors.
its pretty amazing that they even touched him; I think they're going to have a fine lawsuit on their hands for that. but come on, I definitely would have tazered the cretian.
they may have already warned him that he had to leave?
and he turned around to ask another question? at what time
is it legal for an officer to physically remove someone? if they'd
warned him verbally a number of times it seems as though it'd
be legal to remove him with force.
i don't think there is much of a case here..but i could be wrong
it seems to be clear cut resisting arrest...and he wouldn't stop
moving until he was tazed...which is the reason he was tazed.
he seems to be a publicity hound in my mind and wanted this
to happen so he'd have a lawsuit. i'd be interested to see what
the police manual has to say about legal use of a tazer.
exactly. you people who think this incident was right and just need a rude awakening. maybe you should try being hit with a taser. after you try to exercise your "free speech" as they say. you hide behind this attitude that everything the police do is deserved. it's not. wake up.
it's just another way the government tries to subdue us.
not everything the police do is deserved. this was.
i have no fear of the government trying to stomp out my freedom of speech. tasering this nutjob allows the people with real questions to get them out.
if anything, this prankster was infringing on the free speech rights of others by wasting everyones time with his little games. sure is entertaining to watch, though.
in my opinion this is not a free speech issue...i guess you could disagree
i'd agree in other cases that there's an abuse of power in cases like
the one at ucla or rodney king...but to me this doesn't look the same.
in those other cases i saw a victim who seemed sincerely confused as
to why he was being attacked. i don't see that here...i see someone
who seems to be acting and trying to garner attention.
in my opinion it's better that they use a taser to subdue him and make
him stop moving than break his arm trying to get it into cuffs. at what
point is it the fault of the guy who is running and pulling his arm away
from the cops? is he not at all complicit in what ends up happening?
it's not like he was immediately tazed...he's given several verbal
warnings. i don't believe the police are always right..far from it...
but i just don't see the 'victim' being an actual victim here.
to further my point...protestors...
you're allowed to shout or disrupt a speech, but is that protected
under free speech? no. if you're disrupting a meeting or a
speech you should expect to be removed...wouldn't you? or under
your definition of free speech should you be allowed to talk as
long as you desire?
free speech is not intended to allow anyone to say anything whenever
they want, wherever they want.
it's possible that moderators should have removed him..but at an
event involving a senator who was a presidential candidate you're
going to have added security/cops due to the nature of the venue
and the number of people present (simply because you're most likely
required to for kerry's safety as well as rules regarding assembly/
public safety.)
Taser incident at UF
Quilian great question.
If I was a cop and my job was to protect an event where a goverment official (or anyone for that sake) was speaking I don't think I would of done anything different. If I was trying to escort someone out who was causing a disturbance and then they flung there arm around and moved toward the stage I would hope my backup would show up quick. Also if his arms are waving around me and my fellow officers I can't take the chance of him getting hold of our guns, tazers and nightsticks and possibly hurting the speaker, attendees or fellow officers.
In fairness I would warn the person several times that he would get tazered if he didn't stop resisting arrest.
bossman, did you mean (archinect+you all)/[free speech*(george bush/john kerry)] = douchbags?
because i think just archinect + you all / free speech (george bush/john kerry) actually = numb nuts.
to answer quilan's question...i would give him an extra 30 seconds (maybe even a minute) to go on about his blathering while i watch calmly...as soon as he's done speaking, i'd hit him with a night stick
tazer=numb nuts
....if properly aimed
umm, just why the fuck was he detained in the first place? He asks Kerry a question about skull and bones and the kid gets detained?
Kerry's a piece of shit loser, I feel ashamed of voting for him in the primaries.
That said, cops have a shitty job, and I give them healthy amounts of crap for it I'm just wondering on whose authority that kid had to be detained in the first place.
no, i meant archinect + (you all/free speech)*(george bush/john kerry) = douchebags, but your equation checks out as well. sorry i set up a confusing equation.
sorry, i still can't follow your math, to me it sounds like you're we're all douchebags.
'cuse me, you're saying
Dammson why who ruin the event for everyone. If I go to an event to hear a someone talk I want to hear them talk and not some spoiled internet prankster shoot his mouth off.
oops "why should he"
yeah, but do you have to detain the kid?
umm, just why the fuck was he detained in the first place? He asks Kerry a question about skull and bones and the kid gets detained?
My question exactly, that NONE of you have answered. He was arrested for FREE SPEECH !!! Martin Luther King Jr. is ROLLING OVER in his grave. This is bullshit. Kerry is a shithead for not stopping the cops. And as far as waving his arms??? WTF ?? He has a book in one hand and the other hand is open and not threatening anyone. Were the cops scared of the BOOK ? ? ? maybe.
upon further analysis of more you tube vids, it appears the kid was acting like a bit of an ass (i.e. speachmaking) that's still no reason to detain him though.
66 the guy was not asking a question but went on a ten minute rant. The skull and bones question was right at the end of his rant. The idiot would not have been detained had he left when asked to leave but you start shaking off cops and basically ignoring the cops thats called resisting. And you will and should get arrested for that.
Kerry doing anything? Come on. The guy had just spent 10 minutes ranting and accusing Kerry of everything under the sun and then you expect him to jump in?
The fucking video was only 3 minutes and 33 seconds long dumbass. Half of that was of the guy getting carried off by the cops. Get your watch fixed dipshit.
thats bullshit. he didn't provoke anyone. he was posing questions to Kerry is his own sense. and no, there was no reason to taser him. he was posing no physical threat whatsoever. the big guy could have kept carrying him out of the building and kicked him out. end of story. tasing a man on the ground is bullshit too.
don't play that "cops got it hard" shit either. i have a friend who is a cop in the second highest murder rate city in the USA, baltimore. he chose the job and he knows his boundaries. too many of these assholes go out their and act like they can rule the world with their badges. sorry boss, doesn't go that way.
after thinking about this for far longer than i should have, i'll have to agree with bossman. big fucking deal. why is this national news?
66 If you can't communicate your ideas without name calling maybe you should keep quite.
eastcoast the guy was causing a disturbance. Those kinds of forums have guidelines when it comes to time and number of questions. This guy was clearly not following the guidelines and disturbing the forum. Also if someone is on the ground and is still resisting arrest they can still cause harm to the public and officers.
Sorry Eastcoast but cops do have it hard. They not only deal with the shit of society all day but then get ranted on by the people they are trying to protect.
Your right it is a choice and their job is not to rule the world but make sure everyone is following the rules. If you don't follow the rules it IS there job to step in.
they still crossed the line. excessive force. plain and simple.
I just watched the 2nd video. I love this guy.
I hope someone grabbed his books for him, he seemed quite worried about them.
not at all simple.
first, what's excessive force? is the guy hurt at all? or did the taser do its job and temporarily stop him from lashing out until he could be controlled?
Wrong, cops LOVE their jobs. They spend half the day eating donuts and the other half chasing bad guys. They ENJOY it, that's why a lot of my friends who are cops asked to be put in MORE DANGEROUS AREAS around Washington DC. They enjoy the skull-bashing action. They don't want to be a cop in a quiet, peaceful area. Believe me.
It's hard to stand around with the macho testosterone and a badge and let someone exercise Free Speech. If it was South Beach you'd have an entire Gay Parade on your hands and it would be in every Time / Newsweek magazine out there.
Imagine being an architect and YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DRAW, USE CAD, OR SURVEY / DESIGN BUILDINGS ! You'd be a little pent up too. But that's no excuse. Part of their job is restraint. It's part of the training. AND GOOD JUDGEMENT. Not so in this case.
light my fire do you by any chance write screenplays for a website called Real Ultimate Power?
Hi, this site is all about ninjas, REAL NINJAS. This site is awesome. My name is Robert and I can't stop thinking about ninjas. These guys are cool; and by cool, I mean totally sweet.
Facts:
1. Ninjas are mammals.
2. Ninjas fight ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.
one time for like a week i did nothing but review door shop drawings and i TOTALLY wanted to lash out wish some excessive and unrestrained design on everything i saw.. RRAAARRGHH!!!
Who said cops don't love their jobs? Having a hard job doesn't mean you don't like it. Architecture has long hours, unappreciating clients and limited money but I think most of us would agree that we love our jobs.
Restraint? Two officers tried to nudge him out, then pull him out, eventually tried to carry him out and yet he wouldn't leave. At which point the officers should take someone into custody. If you resist and start wrestling with cops additional force should be used. Unless I missed it I didn't see any "skull bashing". The one officer was on the floor with him urging him to stop resisting or he would get tazered. Once out of the hall the officers tried to calm him and no additional force was used. Sounds like good restraint and judgement to me.
Ninjas can kill anyone they want! Ninjas cut off heads ALL the time and don't even think twice about it. These guys are so crazy and awesome that they flip out ALL the time. I heard that there was this ninja who was eating at a diner. And when some dude dropped a spoon the ninja killed the whole town. My friend Mark said that he saw a ninja totally uppercut some kid just because the kid opened a window.
And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you don't believe that ninjas have REAL Ultimate Power you better get a life right now or they will chop your head off!!! It's an easy choice, if you ask me.
ahh the memories...
Try to actually READ what I typed. I said my friends who are cops in THIS area enjoy the ACTION, and some skull-bashing. I wasn't talking about the guy in Florida. LeBossman better shut his piehole before he gets a throwing star in it. Alfrejas24: Go be "QUITE" and READ A BOOK - READ A BOOK - READ A MUTHAFUCKIN' BOOK !
from what i saw in the video, it seemed they had no call at all to use the taser, sure he was mouthing off and being a general dick, BUT he was not posing a physical threat to the cops - so it was totally uncalled for.
isn't there a difference between 'free speech' and creating a
public disturbance? if he was asked to leave he should've
left...i don't agree with police brutality, but i also don't agree
with people that intentionally create a public disturbance for
their own gain. in certain instances it is legal for a private
event or establishment to ask you to leave.
a senator wearing a tshirt against the war into congress
comes to mind...something like that.
once he resists leaving and specifically resists an officer he
is subject to arrest i believe...and also should stop resisting
once in custody. it's very simple...if a cop has his/her hand
on you you should respect them and what they're saying or
be willing to except the consequences of potential arrest.
(this is a generality of course and is not intended to condone
abuse of power/ brutality etc.)
i don't have much love for the police, but i do my best to respect
them like i would any other person and understand that if i lash
out at them that i should expect to be arrested.
Well said lars - you must've done your undergrad at a fine institution of higher learning!
after watching it i get the feeling that he got exactly what he
wanted...
also looking on youtube there seem to be a heck of a lot of
video from a number of different angles...is it possible that
he goaded the police hoping that this would happen? and
had his friends in the audience taping it from a number of
different angles?
i think the police could just as easily use this video for their
own case. it shows him trying to run, pulling his hands away,
screaming/ swearing at the officers, shows the officer verbally
warning him to stop resisting or he will get tasered...well before
it actually happens... you know they're telling him this because
he screams it several times before it happens...in fact it seems
as though he increases his struggles so that it does happen.
LASERS NOT TASERS
(i'm a left leaning independant btw) and maybe a bit of a cynic
66 you obviously need some anger management and have been hanging out with to many of your "skull bashing" donut eating thug friends.
Thread name is Taser incident at UF. But lets state the obvious. You brought up your "skull bashing" buddies to make a generalization about cops and transfer your poor opinions of cops to the UF cops. If you didn't, please start another thread where we can hear all about your "action love'n, skull bashing" friends.
Nice on the "read a book" comment. What are you 16?
^ and the Doors suck, btw
alfrejas it's in reference to the 'read a book' video that
stephanie posted a couple days ago..although 66 may still be
young.
I know lars. I read the tread and love the vid but was making note on using a song title and lyrics as a rebuttal. By the way lars you're "g-l-a-m-o-r-o-u-s".
rotflol alfrejas
its interesting - from the first video it appears that the cops were planning on removing him anyway - the swinging book didn't go really anywhere near the cops; I think they used this as an excuse to take him out; you can see them placing a call to their superiors.
its pretty amazing that they even touched him; I think they're going to have a fine lawsuit on their hands for that. but come on, I definitely would have tazered the cretian.
knock
they may have already warned him that he had to leave?
and he turned around to ask another question? at what time
is it legal for an officer to physically remove someone? if they'd
warned him verbally a number of times it seems as though it'd
be legal to remove him with force.
i don't think there is much of a case here..but i could be wrong
it seems to be clear cut resisting arrest...and he wouldn't stop
moving until he was tazed...which is the reason he was tazed.
he seems to be a publicity hound in my mind and wanted this
to happen so he'd have a lawsuit. i'd be interested to see what
the police manual has to say about legal use of a tazer.
i wonder if we could somehow spatially map all the little rediculous tangents these threads take and use that as a means to generate form.
Americans have too much respect for the fucking cops.
exactly. you people who think this incident was right and just need a rude awakening. maybe you should try being hit with a taser. after you try to exercise your "free speech" as they say. you hide behind this attitude that everything the police do is deserved. it's not. wake up.
it's just another way the government tries to subdue us.
thanks.
not everything the police do is deserved. this was.
i have no fear of the government trying to stomp out my freedom of speech. tasering this nutjob allows the people with real questions to get them out.
if anything, this prankster was infringing on the free speech rights of others by wasting everyones time with his little games. sure is entertaining to watch, though.
eastcoast
in my opinion this is not a free speech issue...i guess you could disagree
i'd agree in other cases that there's an abuse of power in cases like
the one at ucla or rodney king...but to me this doesn't look the same.
in those other cases i saw a victim who seemed sincerely confused as
to why he was being attacked. i don't see that here...i see someone
who seems to be acting and trying to garner attention.
in my opinion it's better that they use a taser to subdue him and make
him stop moving than break his arm trying to get it into cuffs. at what
point is it the fault of the guy who is running and pulling his arm away
from the cops? is he not at all complicit in what ends up happening?
it's not like he was immediately tazed...he's given several verbal
warnings. i don't believe the police are always right..far from it...
but i just don't see the 'victim' being an actual victim here.
to further my point...protestors...
you're allowed to shout or disrupt a speech, but is that protected
under free speech? no. if you're disrupting a meeting or a
speech you should expect to be removed...wouldn't you? or under
your definition of free speech should you be allowed to talk as
long as you desire?
free speech is not intended to allow anyone to say anything whenever
they want, wherever they want.
it's possible that moderators should have removed him..but at an
event involving a senator who was a presidential candidate you're
going to have added security/cops due to the nature of the venue
and the number of people present (simply because you're most likely
required to for kerry's safety as well as rules regarding assembly/
public safety.)
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