you can claim free speech all you want then. but it's so restricted that you're really left to nothing at all. i mean come on. you make a record and they censor you. you write a letter and hand it out, people get offended and sue you. i'm sick and tired of the man cracking down on every little thing that i or some other citizen of this country says.
"i'm sick and tired of the man cracking down on every little thing that i or some other citizen of this country says. "
Did you really just say "the man"?
Cracking down implies halting something negative. So we shouldn't crack down on activities that society has deemed negative?
If someone make a record it won't get censored unless there are obscenities in it. Even then it isn't censored it just comes with an advisory sticker and requires proof of age to purchase.
I've never heard of anyone getting sued for handing out literature. If that was the case I'm pretty sure some athiest would of sued some church by now.
yeah it sucks how you can't express your opinion freely here for
instance...or how you can't write an op/ed against the government
or practice the religion of your choice or travel freely within the
country or travel freely out of the country or how they took keith
oberman off the air for expressing dissent or how they forced you
to join the army or....
so let me see if i get this straight; every time some dumb-ass ignores those in power we taser him? if that was the case how come we haven't tased George Bush?
that's obviously what i was saying beta...thanks for putting
the point so succinctly and getting rid of all the nasty stuff
like attempts at discourse and understanding of both sides
of the story.
are we defending this man because he got tazed? obviously
he didn't get tazed for what he said...he got tazed because he
wouldn't stop moving. if he had gone peacefully do you think
anything would've happened? would he have even been arrested?
all they were trying to do was escort him out like they would any
protestor or person who was acting out of the norms of decorum.
and i think in their mind they were trying to protect the 'victim'
and themselves as odd as that may seem..because forcing
someone into handcuffs could actually cause more harm than
being tazed...just a thought i'm willing to admit i could be wrong.
attempts at discourse? um, yeah. why is it that John Kerry had no problem with the question and even said let the kid speak?
it seems that ever since 9/11 the gloves have been taken off by those in power, and those in power have lost their ability to check their own ass. what makes this country any different than East Germany? go and see The Lives Of Others, it's fitting that this movie came out when it did, the parallels are chilling.
tazing people has never killed anyone, right? i think i 'd rather have the broken arm and live another day, than have to deal with some trigger happy Harry Callahan, just itching to pump 25000-50000 volts into my chest...
This guy was not tazed (tased? tazered?) because of anything he said. He was tazed for not complying with the repeated directions of the police officers.
He was being removed from the forum for what he said, and while you can debate whether or not he should have been, had he just behaved in a civil manner it would have ended there.
The question then becomes what level of force is appropriate to deal with someone who is not compliant, regardless of what gets them into that situation.
As for free speech, that's an easy excuse. You're rights don't supercede anyone elses. If he had the right to disrupt the event to make whatever point he thought he had, then I'd argue the organizers had the right to remove him in order to continue the discussion. And again, if he'd just done that, no force would have been used, no detention, nothing more than "See you later".
i think some of you in your late teens and early twenties just want to believe your oppressed, because it provides you with a place to vent your sexual frustrations. or maybe it's because you've had your id checked at one too many 7-11's. perhaps if you were around long enough you'd realize that you aren't oppressed in any way, shape, or form, and that you're just another spoiled american kid. you know nothing of hardship or oppression. i was the same way when i was younger. when you grow up, should the day come, you'll understand what i mean.
perhaps the Pollyanna's here can look at the glass is half full, that our efforts in Iraq are to provide freedom for oppressed peoples, and that Osama is in a cave, and Pak's are our friends. i on the other hand see the Patriot Act as attack on my civil liberties, and the unfettered access by this government into all aspects of our lives no less dangerous or intrusive as that of East Germany. people in this country that pray on a plane get kicked off and are subject to questioning, people are easily detained under some secret prisons, in other countries with no access to legal system, people are constantly disappearing for what ever reason the government finds appropriate.
spoiled, yeah, spoiled for a time when right wing lunatics did not impose their will under the umbrella of fear...
yeah, because by the time I am your age, America really will resemble East Germany.
I still don't understand why the situation was resolved with violence though even if he was rambling for 10 minutes there are still more civil ways to end the discourse.
think about this, 7 years ago se7en years ago you'd could meet grandma at her gate, you could get on a plane just by flashing an photo id and answer a few simple questions, now you go through all sorts of machines, take off shoes, belts, have your bags searched, you computer checked, throw liquids out, can't bring water, can't say this...and all to fly from MPLS to Chicago? i can't wait for national ids and anal searches to go from MPLS to St. Paul!
You're taking single incidents and claiming they happen on a routine basis to everyone in the country. If your life is actually as you describe (sued for writting a letter, kicked off planes for praying, detained in secret prisons, "disappeared" routinely) then you've got some legitimate complaints. You've also appearantly got one hell of an abrasive personality, or are into some profoundly unpopular shit.
But I doubt that's the case. What you appear to yearn for is not freedom or democracy or even fairness, but anarchy. You want to have the "freedom" to do what you want, when you want, with no restriction and fuck all who have a problem with it.
And while we're at it:
200 years ago I could own another human being. 100 years ago I could "hire" a child to knit sweaters. 50 years ago I could kill a black man in Mississippi and probably get away with it. Yeah, this country does nothing but restrict my freedom.
"i have no fear of the government trying to stomp out my freedom of speech. tasering this nutjob allows the people with real questions to get them out."
So only those with real questions (Decided by you? or is that question not allowed? theres another one oops!) are allowed to ask them? You say you are all for free speech, but you seem to have this idea that only certain people and certain questions are valid. Even if he was just doing it for a publicity stunt, which I highly doubt (I am sure he never imagined he was gonna get tasered), thats protected by free speech as well.
Free speech means just that Ramos, it allows everyone, even those who you think have stupid questions, the ability to ask them.
I agree with Frit though, this is less about free speech, the guy was tased because he resisted being kicked out; whether he should have been kicked out or not is another matter. The cops used too much force to remove him.
Let this idiot have his 15 minutes to do the rounds on the talk shows, then let him fade away. He was clearly hamming it up for the cameras and the cops (doing their jobs) played right into his hands... Getting on TV was priority number 1 for him and getting tasered was probably a bonus.
I'm more disturbed by reading that the "Leave Britney Alone!" guy/girl just signed a TV deal... That's gotta be one of the seven signs of the apocalypse, right?
he got a lengthy amount of time to ask whatever he wanted of a politician from my understanding.
also from my understanding he wasn't intrusively pre-screened before being designated as a person that could ask a politician a question.
his encounter was legally videotaped by amateurs and that video showing both his actions and the law enforcements actions was freely distributed legally for anyone in the world to view.
the story of what happened including his own specific questions, no one elses mind you, but his own, was broadcast over every major news source in the world.
everyone in attendance who viewed the altercations has the means and ability to write, speak, act out, mime, illustrate, put on a fucking puppet show of, etc etc etc the story the way they wish and broadcast that over a huge variety of available communication sources to others.
i'm sorry, what part of this infringes on free speech rights? but, hey, i wasn't there. if any of that isn't factual information and someone factually knows otherwise please let me know.
beafeaters - the guy used his freedom of speech and asked his stupid questions. when asked to leave because he was disrupting the event, he refused. he resisted multiple times so he got tased. no big deal.
when i said attempts at discourse i meant between you and i...
not what happened at the event. in my mind it's sort of childish
to repeat others arguments in a way that they clearly didn't
intend in an attempt to make your own point.
referring to this post:
"so let me see if i get this straight; every time some dumb-ass ignores those in power we taser him? if that was the case how come we haven't tased George Bush?"
while it is true seven years ago it was far easier to go through
airports it was also possible to carry a number of different objects
onto a plane that could be used as weapons to hijack a plane.
(the box cutters were probably already on the plane..but i digress)
in my experience however it's always been fairly difficult to get on/
off a plane at least internationally. if anything america's view of
airport security was laughably lax in comparison to germany, italy,
england etc...you know countries that are accustomed to terrorist
attacks...even norway's security was more stringent.
while i agree with your dim view of guantanamo and the patriot
act and a number of things that the bush administration has
put into place...i don't see that as being relevant to this particular
case. but i guess that's where you and i disagree about this
being a free speech issue.
if the forum was set up for one question per person..why should
this person be allowed to ask many more? what makes this
person more important than anyone else? if anything he was
impinging on everyone elses rights to be heard and answered
by kerry. it's a rare opportunity to ask a politician a question
and it should be treated with respect in my opinion.
GAINESVILLE - Police have released the incident report detailing the Tasering of a University of Florida student during a campus forum with Sen. John Kerry Monday, and the officer who actually Tasered Andrew Meyer wrote in the report that Meyer later told police, "You didn't do anything wrong."
In the 12-page report, which gives accounts of the incident from the perspective of eight different officers who were present Monday afternoon, Officer Nicole Mallo writes that Meyer would only resist officers when cameras were present.
so knowing that this guy was told prior to asking his question
that there would be no more questions and that he stepped in
front of a number of other people to do so and that he was stepping towards kerry while saying some angry comments while also
appearing agitated and that he only struggled against the
police and was unruly only when cameras were present and
that he asked if there would be any cameras at the police station..
...does that change anyones opinion of this guys intent?
oh the guy was a total ass, for real. I'm simply wondering why force had to be used? If I get into a heated argument with some guy, I don't kick his ass (unless he's disrespectin').
In truth, I thought him getting his ass handed to him was funny, but I still don't know why things had to get violent.
does Kerry travel with secret service??? Either way, seeing how he is a political / government figure, any potential threat towards him needs to be handled in a swift manner to prevent him harm
yeah, but did that kid pose a "harmful" threat? I'm assuming people were screened before entering. He looked more like a heckler, not potentially violent (at least towards Kerry, who was clearly separated by a large crowd + cops).
apurimac, just based on the video...it looked like the cops where going to 'escort' him, meaning grab his arm and lead him out....that was the fine line. a subtle movement of nudging his arm out of the police's hands triggers a "resistance" in the minds of a law enforcer. naturally, in the mind of an officer, a proportionate opposing action needs to be done...this exchange occurs very rapidly and faster than the eye and before you know it's a full blown tasing and tackling...
the action of the police officers is inversely proportionate to the action of this dude...that's my theory
it always gets me when people bitch about the cops using 'excessive' force to control someone who is unruly or continues to run / fight them. If the cop's job is to aprehend you, they will; and they will do anything in thier power to do so. Unrortunately, they are the ones who usually have the guns / tazers / billy clubs to do so.
Growing up in Cincinnati, there were many instances of cops using 'excessive force' to subdue people. These usually involved white police shooting young, black men who were running from the cops. I know these shootings arent 100% justified, but they WERE RUNNING / RESISTING ARREST.
this is kind of interesting, it's an article i found on Reason. It has nothing to do with the tazer incident at UF, but it has to do with a slightly similar situation of civil disobedience in Iran
“You can complain about the government,” Mohtadi said. “You can insult them. But America is a red line. Khomeini himself is a red line. The Israelis are a red line, absolutely.” Iranians can’t buck the party line on certain topics, but they are brave enough, or just barely free enough, to protest the government to its face. “When [Iranian President Mahmoud] Ahmadinejad spoke to students,” Mohtadi pointed out, “hundreds of students stood up and called him a fascist and burned his picture.”
I dunno if the kids we're arrested or not, he doesn't say, but just imagine if a group of students did this during a Bush speech at a University here.
the thing with a Bush speech is that people who dont agree with him 300% would not be allowed anywhere near him
bush gives talks to and meets with people all the time, many of them don't agree with him.
true that. Again, what does that say about "our regime" if dissidents are allowed near Ahmadinejad and not Bush?
a 'dissident' is allowed as close to bush and with as much security procedural effort as me or you or toby keith.
I dunno if the kids we're arrested or not, he doesn't say, but just imagine if a group of students did this during a Bush speech at a University here.
if they were not disrupting for instance by holding up signs that say 'you're a facist' or the more popular 'impeach bush', 'arrest cheney first','mass murderer' etc. than i don't think they would be touched, or nothing more than sternly warned don't take it to another level. don't they do that at the capitol frequently anyway?
situation of civil disobedience in Iran
this may be falling under the category of semantics now but burning a picture at a speech may fall out of my own scope of definition for 'civil disobedience' as fire can be a weapon of sorts. i think you could burn something here even if it is the presidents pic as long as it doesn't conflict with fire codes.
sorry, but if a group of 100 students burned a picture of Bush in an auditorium and called him a facist pig they'd all be arrested for at least disturbing the peace.
I have respect for police insofar as they are humans doing a job, but I dont have extra respect for them I dont give to garbage men. You dont have to be a fucking lapdog.
And as far as any protest is a media stunt, in its own amateurish way Id have to say this one was successful. Just because its funny doesnt mean it doesnt say something about whats going on in this country. I mean jesus fucking christ, the kid asked why kerry conceded the election and why we cant impeach the worst president in the history of the united states. Thats a question worth 30 seconds of fucking time. And the fact that we all arent up in washington being so "obnoxious" shows what a sheepish bunch of pussies weve all become. Kudos to him for taking a taser to say something real.
Taser incident at UF
you can claim free speech all you want then. but it's so restricted that you're really left to nothing at all. i mean come on. you make a record and they censor you. you write a letter and hand it out, people get offended and sue you. i'm sick and tired of the man cracking down on every little thing that i or some other citizen of this country says.
"i'm sick and tired of the man cracking down on every little thing that i or some other citizen of this country says. "
Did you really just say "the man"?
Cracking down implies halting something negative. So we shouldn't crack down on activities that society has deemed negative?
If someone make a record it won't get censored unless there are obscenities in it. Even then it isn't censored it just comes with an advisory sticker and requires proof of age to purchase.
I've never heard of anyone getting sued for handing out literature. If that was the case I'm pretty sure some athiest would of sued some church by now.
yeah it sucks how you can't express your opinion freely here for
instance...or how you can't write an op/ed against the government
or practice the religion of your choice or travel freely within the
country or travel freely out of the country or how they took keith
oberman off the air for expressing dissent or how they forced you
to join the army or....
so let me see if i get this straight; every time some dumb-ass ignores those in power we taser him? if that was the case how come we haven't tased George Bush?
that's obviously what i was saying beta...thanks for putting
the point so succinctly and getting rid of all the nasty stuff
like attempts at discourse and understanding of both sides
of the story.
are we defending this man because he got tazed? obviously
he didn't get tazed for what he said...he got tazed because he
wouldn't stop moving. if he had gone peacefully do you think
anything would've happened? would he have even been arrested?
all they were trying to do was escort him out like they would any
protestor or person who was acting out of the norms of decorum.
and i think in their mind they were trying to protect the 'victim'
and themselves as odd as that may seem..because forcing
someone into handcuffs could actually cause more harm than
being tazed...just a thought i'm willing to admit i could be wrong.
attempts at discourse? um, yeah. why is it that John Kerry had no problem with the question and even said let the kid speak?
it seems that ever since 9/11 the gloves have been taken off by those in power, and those in power have lost their ability to check their own ass. what makes this country any different than East Germany? go and see The Lives Of Others, it's fitting that this movie came out when it did, the parallels are chilling.
tazing people has never killed anyone, right? i think i 'd rather have the broken arm and live another day, than have to deal with some trigger happy Harry Callahan, just itching to pump 25000-50000 volts into my chest...
This guy was not tazed (tased? tazered?) because of anything he said. He was tazed for not complying with the repeated directions of the police officers.
He was being removed from the forum for what he said, and while you can debate whether or not he should have been, had he just behaved in a civil manner it would have ended there.
The question then becomes what level of force is appropriate to deal with someone who is not compliant, regardless of what gets them into that situation.
As for free speech, that's an easy excuse. You're rights don't supercede anyone elses. If he had the right to disrupt the event to make whatever point he thought he had, then I'd argue the organizers had the right to remove him in order to continue the discussion. And again, if he'd just done that, no force would have been used, no detention, nothing more than "See you later".
"what makes this country any different than East Germany?"
Are you serious?
Just how often are you getting beat down off your soapbox? You clearly have a biased view on this.
i think some of you in your late teens and early twenties just want to believe your oppressed, because it provides you with a place to vent your sexual frustrations. or maybe it's because you've had your id checked at one too many 7-11's. perhaps if you were around long enough you'd realize that you aren't oppressed in any way, shape, or form, and that you're just another spoiled american kid. you know nothing of hardship or oppression. i was the same way when i was younger. when you grow up, should the day come, you'll understand what i mean.
40 and i think i'm far from my teens.
perhaps the Pollyanna's here can look at the glass is half full, that our efforts in Iraq are to provide freedom for oppressed peoples, and that Osama is in a cave, and Pak's are our friends. i on the other hand see the Patriot Act as attack on my civil liberties, and the unfettered access by this government into all aspects of our lives no less dangerous or intrusive as that of East Germany. people in this country that pray on a plane get kicked off and are subject to questioning, people are easily detained under some secret prisons, in other countries with no access to legal system, people are constantly disappearing for what ever reason the government finds appropriate.
spoiled, yeah, spoiled for a time when right wing lunatics did not impose their will under the umbrella of fear...
biased view.
yeah, because by the time I am your age, America really will resemble East Germany.
I still don't understand why the situation was resolved with violence though even if he was rambling for 10 minutes there are still more civil ways to end the discourse.
this guy was tazed because law enforcement is consistently hiring trigger happy a-holes that think Rambo is on Mt. Rushmore.
well, in a way, i can understand why he was tazered (resisting arrest) i just have no idea why he was being detained in the first place.
think about this, 7 years ago se7en years ago you'd could meet grandma at her gate, you could get on a plane just by flashing an photo id and answer a few simple questions, now you go through all sorts of machines, take off shoes, belts, have your bags searched, you computer checked, throw liquids out, can't bring water, can't say this...and all to fly from MPLS to Chicago? i can't wait for national ids and anal searches to go from MPLS to St. Paul!
beta,
You're taking single incidents and claiming they happen on a routine basis to everyone in the country. If your life is actually as you describe (sued for writting a letter, kicked off planes for praying, detained in secret prisons, "disappeared" routinely) then you've got some legitimate complaints. You've also appearantly got one hell of an abrasive personality, or are into some profoundly unpopular shit.
But I doubt that's the case. What you appear to yearn for is not freedom or democracy or even fairness, but anarchy. You want to have the "freedom" to do what you want, when you want, with no restriction and fuck all who have a problem with it.
And while we're at it:
200 years ago I could own another human being. 100 years ago I could "hire" a child to knit sweaters. 50 years ago I could kill a black man in Mississippi and probably get away with it. Yeah, this country does nothing but restrict my freedom.
Free Ramos,
"i have no fear of the government trying to stomp out my freedom of speech. tasering this nutjob allows the people with real questions to get them out."
So only those with real questions (Decided by you? or is that question not allowed? theres another one oops!) are allowed to ask them? You say you are all for free speech, but you seem to have this idea that only certain people and certain questions are valid. Even if he was just doing it for a publicity stunt, which I highly doubt (I am sure he never imagined he was gonna get tasered), thats protected by free speech as well.
Free speech means just that Ramos, it allows everyone, even those who you think have stupid questions, the ability to ask them.
I agree with Frit though, this is less about free speech, the guy was tased because he resisted being kicked out; whether he should have been kicked out or not is another matter. The cops used too much force to remove him.
Let this idiot have his 15 minutes to do the rounds on the talk shows, then let him fade away. He was clearly hamming it up for the cameras and the cops (doing their jobs) played right into his hands... Getting on TV was priority number 1 for him and getting tasered was probably a bonus.
I'm more disturbed by reading that the "Leave Britney Alone!" guy/girl just signed a TV deal... That's gotta be one of the seven signs of the apocalypse, right?
yes. and that shows how good we've got it.
he got a lengthy amount of time to ask whatever he wanted of a politician from my understanding.
also from my understanding he wasn't intrusively pre-screened before being designated as a person that could ask a politician a question.
his encounter was legally videotaped by amateurs and that video showing both his actions and the law enforcements actions was freely distributed legally for anyone in the world to view.
the story of what happened including his own specific questions, no one elses mind you, but his own, was broadcast over every major news source in the world.
everyone in attendance who viewed the altercations has the means and ability to write, speak, act out, mime, illustrate, put on a fucking puppet show of, etc etc etc the story the way they wish and broadcast that over a huge variety of available communication sources to others.
i'm sorry, what part of this infringes on free speech rights? but, hey, i wasn't there. if any of that isn't factual information and someone factually knows otherwise please let me know.
beafeaters - the guy used his freedom of speech and asked his stupid questions. when asked to leave because he was disrupting the event, he refused. he resisted multiple times so he got tased. no big deal.
beta
when i said attempts at discourse i meant between you and i...
not what happened at the event. in my mind it's sort of childish
to repeat others arguments in a way that they clearly didn't
intend in an attempt to make your own point.
referring to this post:
"so let me see if i get this straight; every time some dumb-ass ignores those in power we taser him? if that was the case how come we haven't tased George Bush?"
while it is true seven years ago it was far easier to go through
airports it was also possible to carry a number of different objects
onto a plane that could be used as weapons to hijack a plane.
(the box cutters were probably already on the plane..but i digress)
in my experience however it's always been fairly difficult to get on/
off a plane at least internationally. if anything america's view of
airport security was laughably lax in comparison to germany, italy,
england etc...you know countries that are accustomed to terrorist
attacks...even norway's security was more stringent.
while i agree with your dim view of guantanamo and the patriot
act and a number of things that the bush administration has
put into place...i don't see that as being relevant to this particular
case. but i guess that's where you and i disagree about this
being a free speech issue.
if the forum was set up for one question per person..why should
this person be allowed to ask many more? what makes this
person more important than anyone else? if anything he was
impinging on everyone elses rights to be heard and answered
by kerry. it's a rare opportunity to ask a politician a question
and it should be treated with respect in my opinion.
the guy is now famous...who cares
In the 12-page report, which gives accounts of the incident from the perspective of eight different officers who were present Monday afternoon, Officer Nicole Mallo writes that Meyer would only resist officers when cameras were present.
article
they should have tasered him again for being a douche
so knowing that this guy was told prior to asking his question
that there would be no more questions and that he stepped in
front of a number of other people to do so and that he was stepping towards kerry while saying some angry comments while also
appearing agitated and that he only struggled against the
police and was unruly only when cameras were present and
that he asked if there would be any cameras at the police station..
...does that change anyones opinion of this guys intent?
we should just let this silly thread die. i'm embarrased for contributing to it.
oh the guy was a total ass, for real. I'm simply wondering why force had to be used? If I get into a heated argument with some guy, I don't kick his ass (unless he's disrespectin').
In truth, I thought him getting his ass handed to him was funny, but I still don't know why things had to get violent.
does Kerry travel with secret service??? Either way, seeing how he is a political / government figure, any potential threat towards him needs to be handled in a swift manner to prevent him harm
yeah, but did that kid pose a "harmful" threat? I'm assuming people were screened before entering. He looked more like a heckler, not potentially violent (at least towards Kerry, who was clearly separated by a large crowd + cops).
apurimac, just based on the video...it looked like the cops where going to 'escort' him, meaning grab his arm and lead him out....that was the fine line. a subtle movement of nudging his arm out of the police's hands triggers a "resistance" in the minds of a law enforcer. naturally, in the mind of an officer, a proportionate opposing action needs to be done...this exchange occurs very rapidly and faster than the eye and before you know it's a full blown tasing and tackling...
the action of the police officers is inversely proportionate to the action of this dude...that's my theory
*were
either way, you dont fuck with cops...bottom line. They have the authority to shoot you if you are being a stupid fuck
blunt, but well said mdler... That said, I personally don't fuck with the police, but it pisses me off when they fuck with me.
Apurimac
it always gets me when people bitch about the cops using 'excessive' force to control someone who is unruly or continues to run / fight them. If the cop's job is to aprehend you, they will; and they will do anything in thier power to do so. Unrortunately, they are the ones who usually have the guns / tazers / billy clubs to do so.
Growing up in Cincinnati, there were many instances of cops using 'excessive force' to subdue people. These usually involved white police shooting young, black men who were running from the cops. I know these shootings arent 100% justified, but they WERE RUNNING / RESISTING ARREST.
and I wouldn't disagree with you for the most part.
this is kind of interesting, it's an article i found on Reason. It has nothing to do with the tazer incident at UF, but it has to do with a slightly similar situation of civil disobedience in Iran
“You can complain about the government,” Mohtadi said. “You can insult them. But America is a red line. Khomeini himself is a red line. The Israelis are a red line, absolutely.” Iranians can’t buck the party line on certain topics, but they are brave enough, or just barely free enough, to protest the government to its face. “When [Iranian President Mahmoud] Ahmadinejad spoke to students,” Mohtadi pointed out, “hundreds of students stood up and called him a fascist and burned his picture.”
I dunno if the kids we're arrested or not, he doesn't say, but just imagine if a group of students did this during a Bush speech at a University here.
the thing with a Bush speech is that people who dont agree with him 300% would not be allowed anywhere near him
true that. Again, what does that say about "our regime" if dissidents are allowed near Ahmadinejad and not Bush?
bush gives talks to and meets with people all the time, many of them don't agree with him.
true that. Again, what does that say about "our regime" if dissidents are allowed near Ahmadinejad and not Bush?
a 'dissident' is allowed as close to bush and with as much security procedural effort as me or you or toby keith.
I dunno if the kids we're arrested or not, he doesn't say, but just imagine if a group of students did this during a Bush speech at a University here.
if they were not disrupting for instance by holding up signs that say 'you're a facist' or the more popular 'impeach bush', 'arrest cheney first','mass murderer' etc. than i don't think they would be touched, or nothing more than sternly warned don't take it to another level. don't they do that at the capitol frequently anyway?
situation of civil disobedience in Iran
this may be falling under the category of semantics now but burning a picture at a speech may fall out of my own scope of definition for 'civil disobedience' as fire can be a weapon of sorts. i think you could burn something here even if it is the presidents pic as long as it doesn't conflict with fire codes.
sorry, but if a group of 100 students burned a picture of Bush in an auditorium and called him a facist pig they'd all be arrested for at least disturbing the peace.
A few things:
I have respect for police insofar as they are humans doing a job, but I dont have extra respect for them I dont give to garbage men. You dont have to be a fucking lapdog.
And as far as any protest is a media stunt, in its own amateurish way Id have to say this one was successful. Just because its funny doesnt mean it doesnt say something about whats going on in this country. I mean jesus fucking christ, the kid asked why kerry conceded the election and why we cant impeach the worst president in the history of the united states. Thats a question worth 30 seconds of fucking time. And the fact that we all arent up in washington being so "obnoxious" shows what a sheepish bunch of pussies weve all become. Kudos to him for taking a taser to say something real.
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