Come to think of it, I think she was just an oblivious fashion victim. But she really had no idea how to conduct herself in a professional environment....once we caught her at her desk asleep. It was pretty funny. I mean if you have to nap, go to the bathroom at least.
smallpotatoes, I think I am just going to let you talk for me all the time because you hit the nail on the head again. I totally relate to this statement:
Also, if you don't dress well enough (meaning dowdy not slutty) you might be seen as less creative and you can bet that your female coworkers will probably rip you to shreds when you walk out of the conference room.
The women in my office are actually pretty supportive of one another so I was never worried about the "ripping to shreds" part, however I did decide a long time ago that I would try to dress a little more "eccentric" because I feel that people think you are more creative that way.
squaressquared - thanks for the link, that article brings to light how women are really getting creative when it comes to working and caring for children at the same time.
It raises that same question that is so infuriating though..."Do you think you can work x job without neglecting your children?" It's not the question I have a problem with, but that no one ever seems to ask this of a father. I've said it before...our society is very comfortable with the idea that the father will be able to pursue his career goals because of the support of his partner, who will care for the family in some other capacity. When a woman tries to do this, she is judged...often as being selfish or career hungry, unattractive qualities apparently for wifey.
Does anyone see that more and more women, rather than fighting the system, just get out and start their own business, to make their own rules? This option acutally seems much more difficult to pull off than continuing a regular 9-5. hmmm....
it helps that all those wonderful things said about women's abilities over men's are coming from women. it's not that i don't agree with most of them (i do), but the tone of it sure sustains the us/them dynamic doesn't it? is this kind of article helpful or harmful?
I think you raise a valid point steven - I was surprised to see only two respondents say that there are no qualities that women "hold over men". The survey was surely written to lead the women in a particular direction. I think the general public is not that wise to how simple it is to skew a survey or line of questioning.
So while I think the responses were indeed interesting, I think that if Maxim sent out a survey asking it's readers to list what qualities made men superior in the workforce, we'd be demanding the head of that survey writer! It's not about superiority...we won't progress until we learn to appreciate the sexes for their differences and learn how to deal with them.
smallpotatoes; So here is somthing to stir up some conversation:
I think it is a big misconception to assume that a stay at home mom is somehow going to provide a better upbringing for her child than a working mom. The new generatio of Moms and Dads spend way too much time coddling and spoiling their kids. I have friends who have been schoolteachers for 30 years who cannot believe how bad the current behavior is in school kids, many who have been spoiled by parents who think the world revolves around their kid. These are the same parents who go nuts when the teacher tries to get the parent to understand that their kid is disrupting class, or needs to do his own homework. This is the same mom who 'helps' in the classroom, but is really there to protect little Brandon from such attrocities as having to wait his turn at the water fountain.
I grew up in the 50's. Pretty much all moms were at home with the kids, but believe me, they barely paid any attention to us. They were too busy with the laundry, cooking, cleaning, sewing our clothes, watching tv, socializing with their friends, etc. We were thrown out the door into the yard and told not to come back in until we were called for dinner. We learned to be independent, get along with others, entertain ourselves, etc. We did our own homework, were responsible for our own grades, did college application all on our own without 'coaches', and pretty much learned how to make our own way in the world. Kids now are spoiled beyond belief. They expect to get an award for showing up a soccer practice. The use of medications to control their behavior in school so they can sit still in a chair is at an all time high. I have seen high school kids who have parents who do their homework, complete their science project, write their college essay, interfere in every shcool matter, and then they wonder why the kid can't make it on their own at college. So they call the college dean and complain. (hence, colleges developing whole programs for "helicopter" parents who can't let go.) Then when the kids drops out of school, they live at home for the next 5 years while they work at starbucks. Mom and Dad buy them a car so they can get to work!
Honestly, I think SOME stay at home moms are messing up their kids lives more than if they would go back to work, and stop trying to make their kids become the over achievers that they are not. Don't you think that it is weird that so many stay at home moms push their daughters academically so they can be at the top of their class? The poor girls have to be on the softball team, take ballet, play the violin, win a chemistry award at school, etc. Is the mom trying to make up for some shortcoming she sees in her life?
Frankly I think that parents who are inclined to be that way will do so whether they work or not. My parents, while not doing things for me, were far too involved in my life, and they both worked well over 40 hours/week.
This is a new slant on an old issue - salary gaps between genders. But it goes a step further - research that shows that the problem isn't just that women are not asking for more money, but that if they do, they are perceptive of the negative reaction that they receive in contrast to their male counterparts.
It seems women need to get comfortable with being agressive about salary negotiation, but unfortunately for us the people across the table often interpret this negatively - they prefer a woman who responds in a grateful manner to the first offer. hmmmm....
archie - you and I are in agreement regarding the helicopter parent. I have really tried to not sound too critical of women who choose full-time motherhood, since I really believe that it comes down to personal choice. However I think that many educated professional women trade the workplace for being CEO of their home and in turn fuel all that energy into creating the most impressive offspring possible, and the over-attention to these children is their demise.
That study's conclusions definitely make a certain amount of sense. I'm not your typical woman in that I am not afraid to negotiate, call a man, or call a firm, and I've definitely seen some negative reactions to it. My whole attitude is that if I don't call, if I don't ask, then I don't have ANY chance, whereas if I do make a move and let people know I'm here, then yes there's a chance of them being put off by my forwardness, but there's also a chance that they won't and that's better than if they don't even know I'm alive.
I agree and i do see lots of disproportionate violence against women. I was just at a talk and one of the speakers was Women Beyond Borders and they were talking about the women of Juarez and i read allot about domestic violence and murder of gf's and wives but military personnel and well as harassment and rape within the us military of fellow soldiers as well as civilians and 'enemies'.
and knowing about the Myth of Redemptive Violence where paganism took a turn from Matriarchy to Patriarchy with the slaying of the grandmother goddess.
then there is always the toxic/destabilizing effects of birth control.
But it is nice to see protections in place and workplaces that give women a extra boost and encouragement to join the professions today because that is a highly needed reparation (who knows how long that will last considering the racist verdict of the neo conservative supreme court last week about segregation)
good luck to all the women out there and know you have feminist allies.
Well that article I posted was very timely for me as I read it about three hours before heading into a salary negotiation of my own. I have been in the process of interviewing for a new job, and today we sat down to negotiate. Before reading the article, I was a bit nervous about asking for the 2k over their offer (it hits the top end of the salary range for the job) but in the end decided to go for it. While it did elicit a momentary freeze in the eyes of the man who made the decision, a few moments later he left to "check his numbers" and returned to give me the thumbs-up and I accepted.
I agree with rationalist - you're screwed if you don't at least try. the worst they could say would be no. I decided that I would ask for the +2k with a bright smile and a statement about accepting the offer on those terms and hope for the best. If he were still to perceive me as being pushy or forward even then, well, there's nothing I can do about it.
It really helped to remember the stats about how starting low effects your long-term earnings.
Here's whats weird - on this thread the women are talking about genuine issues they face in the workplace and society. On the men thread all the fella's are talking about are their beauty regimes.
nah. now we're on to condoms and "drilling holes in the media myth that men and manliness are defined by any of those material and social codifers, rather that it has to do with something more." (architechnophilia)
Young women in New York and several of the nation’s other largest cities who work full time have forged ahead of men in wages, according to an analysis of recent census data.
The shift has occurred in New York since 2000 and even earlier in Los Angeles, Dallas and a few other cities. More >>
women of all educational levels from 21 to 30 living in New York City and working full time made 117 percent of men’s wages, and even more in Dallas, 120 percent. Nationwide, that group of women made much less: 89 percent of the average full-time pay for men.
this seems to reflects the higher academic achievement of women that is finally being translated into the workforce and wages.
Melissa J. Manfro, a 24-year-old lawyer who was raised in upstate New York, offered her own theory on why younger female lawyers are outearning their male peers: a desire to begin their careers earlier to prepare for starting families.
“It seems that women tend to take less time off between college and law school, and therefore become more senior, and, hence, make more money, at a younger age,” she said. “I would, of course, like to think that means that women know what they want sooner than men. But it probably has more to do with the unfortunate fact that women need to keep in mind biological time constraints and feel a great deal of pressure to build an entire career before refocusing on marriage and children.”
It's important to note that the research is comparing women to men within an urban enviroment, and if in that setting women are on average more educated than the average male, then it makes complete sense that their compensation rates should be higher.
I am pleased to think that perhaps this means that salaries are being awarded more and more based on qualifications and merit to both sexes, but the presentation of the article is a bit misleading.
"resurgence" of instances of violence against women.
that fertilizer salesman.. forget his .. yeah. peterson. oj simpson. that 60's producer of girl groups. with the funny wigs.
those stories about an excop killing (or threatening) his kids and 'estranged wife' are in the papers once in awhile. i don't think that kind of crime is changing.
and the fake boobs thing is dumb. there can't be that many ugly boobs (except rush limbaugh, but he's the type of boob that sucks rather than the type that needs sucking :D )
maybe the statistics are faker than the fake boobs. maybe these statistics are part of a plastic surgeons marketing campaign.
if the boobs are 'saggy', let em be saggy.
---
Heck, if I could stand it, which I couldn't, but I would have kid after kid, one year apart, so I could get paid and never work. Wait, isn't that what our Welfare system is?
sure a bear one baby a year, and make what percentage of minimum wage? :-)
and yeah, violence against women is mate violence, and guys are more violent than fems, but what about gay or lesbian couples?
And to respond further to your odd coupling of starvation and overpopulation... the densest continent by far is Europe. Much starving going on there? Not that I've heard of.
but how to compare net influx of resources? neither continent is a closed system.
also aids is a bigger family problem in africa.
-------------- Steven, there's a pretty strict--while silent--code for wearing makeup to the office. Heels, while they may seem "optional" to some, are well known for being one of the few things that will help a short woman command respect in the workplace
'professional' dress is dull (a designer is supposed to be 'creative' yet deliberately wears frump?), and the 'enforcement' is a symptom of a society dominated by ailing psychology.
perfume and the smelly crappe that sales guys slosh on their hair are disgusting. high heels are a health hazard. neckties and belts are (lesser) hazards.
light blue velour sweatsuit to work. I think it was velour....anyway, it was weird.
baggy velour. that was so 90's. although blue sounds conservative.
Also, if you don't dress well enough (meaning dowdy not slutty) you might be seen as less creative
aha. yeah. you can dress creatively, independent of outskinning brittney. or not. i see way too much dowdy. a lot of interior designers use way too much makeup and still don't make a unique impression.
but i suppose we can claim this dowdy requirement originates with the clients.
I found a very moving piece on women in politics, and HRC in particular, here, if anyone is interested.
Especially like the bit about women tending to become MORE radical as they get older. I wish it were more true - my clientele certainly aren't radical, though I think a push reading something like this might help them get there.
On that note, i encourage folks to read [url=http://www.reason.com/news/show/124402.html]this[/i] article regarding the rise of women in this country over the next generation.
you know what i so completely angry with that piece, even i can't bring myself to read all of it.
just so we're fair here, the suffrage movement excluded black americans from their "movement" because they knew it would not get them the right to vote to include black americans, so much for a principled voice. when monica lewinsky scandal broke, where was NOW? NOWhere.
what i want to know is this; if women that vote for Barack are traitors to their gender, would white people that vote for Barack be traitors to their race?
i was - and still somewhat undecided now - going to vote for Clinton in the general, if she got the nod, but i still can't get past the gridlock and divisiveness, Bill Clinton co-presidency, and down right assitude of the clintons.
i see the problem more in this light; the people - the old 1960's establishment - that are the most pissed off at what is going on are the people that are so dependent on bigger government, perhaps big daddy, taking care of them, without any desire to or outreach to ask those that need the most help to be part of solution. my mother was on public assistance, and myself and 3 other siblings as well, didn't just sit back on the dole, my mom worked 2 jobs, nearly 20 hrs a day to provide.
i want a womyn in the White House, why can't it be someone better than Hillary, i know there are better out there, why won't they step up?
that's sort of why i didn't respond, lb. i got a little p.o.'d reading it too but didn't talk back because i would have made THIS thread a political thread.
i'd simply say here that i think morgan is making both clinton's strengths and weaknesses in this election ALL ABOUT her being a woman and, in that, she's overcompensating. it's caused her to overlook some big clinton liabilities which are unique to clinton, not general across her gender.
Well since somebody else brought it up, I now feel compelled to post my thoughts on being a female and voting for President here too. I put it on the Obama thread but I realize many people aren't venturing in that direction these days.
And, to be frank, I couldn't bear to finish the article, mostly because I had a hard time reading it...she doesn't seem to write in complete sentences or all that coherently. It agitated my grammar sensibilities.
Emily, i know you're a smart woman and all, and since we're 'necters I feel obligated to inform you that "irregardless" is not really a word as it is a double negative, try "regardless" instead.
just trying to save you the embarrassment later on.
Emily your blog piece is of course beautifully written and wonderful, and good for you stating proudly the what and why of your choice. The ability for everyone to be able to do that is what the women's movement of the 60s - a leader in which the author I pointed to was - was all about.
But for goodness sake, the piece I posted is a passionate call to (pacifist) arms, not a grammar essay. If you guys don't want to read it, fine, but don't go off half-cocked (yes, I chose those words) over what it says if you don't bother to read it through to the end. I found it moving, to be reminded of what my mother and her generation struggled to achieve so that I can achieve what I have and still desire to.
Apu, I enjoyed the article you linked to. Maybe "enjoyed" isn't the right word. I fear we are in a time when yes, women are becoming better educated, yet as a society we are making choices that will negate that potential gain in shared knowledge. I can't offer any specific examples, but creationism and politicized "scientific findings" come to mind. It is clear that many societies fear intelligence in general, and sadly the bigger the fear the more the target of frustration seems to be intelligent women. And yes, in a way that is insignificant compared to the experience of, say, a woman in Afghanistan, I am speaking from experience. And THAT is why I chose to post this essay here, not in a political thread.
lb, i know, i just get worked up over this kind of rhetoric from people. as though Caroline's voice doesn't count, Rory Kennedy doesn't count, Maria Shriver doesn't count, Joan Baez doesn't count...and any number of women voting for Barack, including my wife and sister don't count! Somehow they are all betraying women by voting for Barack. I was at headquarters making a ton of phone calls to older women needing rides to vote for Barack, and they're all crazy too? Most of the people, between 50-60%, at headquarters are women, and most of the Field Organizers I have worked with are women, driven and abundantly qualified to run any god damned thing in this world, without men.
Take pride in the power of women to think and do, without anyone telling them what or how to think!
Yes, beta, exactly. I was trying to advocate vote for the person on his or her merits alone, not race, sex, or who you're married to, in the Hillary thread, but apparently that last one never goes over too well.
I just wanted everyone to know that I'm leaving the word "irregardless" in my blog intentionally, to spite everyone who keeps telling me that it's not a word. If that lady in the link above can write in half-sentences and get her writing passed around the web, I can use made up words in my wee little blog.
Because it's my blog, I like the sound of the word, I'm a FREE WOMAN, and I can.
i want a womyn in the White House, why can't it be someone better than Hillary, i know there are better out there, why won't they step up?
maria may be the best chance for arnold to reach the white house... her speech was pretty rousing. nancy has a cush and powerful job that is ten times better then getting into the whitehouse - so don't expect her to run.
any other womyn worth watching to follow hilary's run? oprah? emily?
Ten hundred books could I write you about her
Cause I felt if I could know her
I would know all women
And they've not been any too well known
For brains and planning and organized thinking
But I'm sure the women are equal
And they may be ahead of the men
Yet I wouldn't spread such a rumor around
Cause one organizes the other
And sometimes the most lost and wasted
Attract the most balanced and sane
And the wild and the reckless take up
With the clocked and the timed
And the mixture is all of us
And we're still mixing
But never never never
Never could have it been done
If the women hadn't entered into the deal
Like she came along to me
And all creeds and kinds and colors
Of us are blending
Till I suppose ten million years from now
We'll all be just alike
Same color, same size, working together
And maybe we'll have all of the fascists
Out of the way by then
Maybe so
But never never never
Never could have it been done
If the women hadn't entered into the deal
Like she came along to me
It's a good questipon, tk, who else might be a viable woman to become president. My fear, and I say this with no intent to be melodramatic, but from a deep sense of reality, is that any woman who steps up to do so will somehow be found to be "unelectable" just like Hilary is. Look at how many truly powerful women there are in DC (a small handful, honestly), and how resoundingly hated and mocked so many of them are.
I would think the right woman might not be in DC but a Governor who
is brought to the front on what she has accomplished for her State. It
is time for new faces....and new ideas.....someone outside of the box. I acknowledge HRC is a bright woman but with alot of baggage.
I never much liked the Arkansas Land Deal that sent a woman to Jail because she would never come forth and say what she knew. Those kind of things lingering in the background are very suspect. I think it
is time to break away from dynasty presidential candidates. I have had enough of Bush and Bush and Clinton and Clinton. What we will be seeing is a replay of his time in office, being surrounded by all the
follow alongs for political appointments. If you don't think so I think
you might have your head in the sand. There will be alot of political
appointments associated with the Bill years and that just bothers the hell out of me. Let America Be Free!
American woman.....
Come to think of it, I think she was just an oblivious fashion victim. But she really had no idea how to conduct herself in a professional environment....once we caught her at her desk asleep. It was pretty funny. I mean if you have to nap, go to the bathroom at least.
smallpotatoes, I think I am just going to let you talk for me all the time because you hit the nail on the head again. I totally relate to this statement:
Also, if you don't dress well enough (meaning dowdy not slutty) you might be seen as less creative and you can bet that your female coworkers will probably rip you to shreds when you walk out of the conference room.
The women in my office are actually pretty supportive of one another so I was never worried about the "ripping to shreds" part, however I did decide a long time ago that I would try to dress a little more "eccentric" because I feel that people think you are more creative that way.
ok, hopefully i didn't post this twice:
equality report
a report published in the uk recently speculates that there is a long way to go to achieve a gender equal society
Very interesting, belle. Thanks for the link.
Don't know if this has already been linked elsewhere on this thread, but here's an interesting related article from the NY Times:
Women Take Off the Gloves and Come Out Multitasking
squaressquared - thanks for the link, that article brings to light how women are really getting creative when it comes to working and caring for children at the same time.
It raises that same question that is so infuriating though..."Do you think you can work x job without neglecting your children?" It's not the question I have a problem with, but that no one ever seems to ask this of a father. I've said it before...our society is very comfortable with the idea that the father will be able to pursue his career goals because of the support of his partner, who will care for the family in some other capacity. When a woman tries to do this, she is judged...often as being selfish or career hungry, unattractive qualities apparently for wifey.
Does anyone see that more and more women, rather than fighting the system, just get out and start their own business, to make their own rules? This option acutally seems much more difficult to pull off than continuing a regular 9-5. hmmm....
it helps that all those wonderful things said about women's abilities over men's are coming from women. it's not that i don't agree with most of them (i do), but the tone of it sure sustains the us/them dynamic doesn't it? is this kind of article helpful or harmful?
WK-what is your definition of dressing "eccentric"?
I think you raise a valid point steven - I was surprised to see only two respondents say that there are no qualities that women "hold over men". The survey was surely written to lead the women in a particular direction. I think the general public is not that wise to how simple it is to skew a survey or line of questioning.
So while I think the responses were indeed interesting, I think that if Maxim sent out a survey asking it's readers to list what qualities made men superior in the workforce, we'd be demanding the head of that survey writer! It's not about superiority...we won't progress until we learn to appreciate the sexes for their differences and learn how to deal with them.
not all womwn would prefare that
smallpotatoes; So here is somthing to stir up some conversation:
I think it is a big misconception to assume that a stay at home mom is somehow going to provide a better upbringing for her child than a working mom. The new generatio of Moms and Dads spend way too much time coddling and spoiling their kids. I have friends who have been schoolteachers for 30 years who cannot believe how bad the current behavior is in school kids, many who have been spoiled by parents who think the world revolves around their kid. These are the same parents who go nuts when the teacher tries to get the parent to understand that their kid is disrupting class, or needs to do his own homework. This is the same mom who 'helps' in the classroom, but is really there to protect little Brandon from such attrocities as having to wait his turn at the water fountain.
I grew up in the 50's. Pretty much all moms were at home with the kids, but believe me, they barely paid any attention to us. They were too busy with the laundry, cooking, cleaning, sewing our clothes, watching tv, socializing with their friends, etc. We were thrown out the door into the yard and told not to come back in until we were called for dinner. We learned to be independent, get along with others, entertain ourselves, etc. We did our own homework, were responsible for our own grades, did college application all on our own without 'coaches', and pretty much learned how to make our own way in the world. Kids now are spoiled beyond belief. They expect to get an award for showing up a soccer practice. The use of medications to control their behavior in school so they can sit still in a chair is at an all time high. I have seen high school kids who have parents who do their homework, complete their science project, write their college essay, interfere in every shcool matter, and then they wonder why the kid can't make it on their own at college. So they call the college dean and complain. (hence, colleges developing whole programs for "helicopter" parents who can't let go.) Then when the kids drops out of school, they live at home for the next 5 years while they work at starbucks. Mom and Dad buy them a car so they can get to work!
Honestly, I think SOME stay at home moms are messing up their kids lives more than if they would go back to work, and stop trying to make their kids become the over achievers that they are not. Don't you think that it is weird that so many stay at home moms push their daughters academically so they can be at the top of their class? The poor girls have to be on the softball team, take ballet, play the violin, win a chemistry award at school, etc. Is the mom trying to make up for some shortcoming she sees in her life?
Frankly I think that parents who are inclined to be that way will do so whether they work or not. My parents, while not doing things for me, were far too involved in my life, and they both worked well over 40 hours/week.
Salary, gender and the social cost of haggling:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20030873/
This is a new slant on an old issue - salary gaps between genders. But it goes a step further - research that shows that the problem isn't just that women are not asking for more money, but that if they do, they are perceptive of the negative reaction that they receive in contrast to their male counterparts.
It seems women need to get comfortable with being agressive about salary negotiation, but unfortunately for us the people across the table often interpret this negatively - they prefer a woman who responds in a grateful manner to the first offer. hmmmm....
archie - you and I are in agreement regarding the helicopter parent. I have really tried to not sound too critical of women who choose full-time motherhood, since I really believe that it comes down to personal choice. However I think that many educated professional women trade the workplace for being CEO of their home and in turn fuel all that energy into creating the most impressive offspring possible, and the over-attention to these children is their demise.
wasnt that woman that drowned her kids in texas a stay at home mom?
ouch vado. I was trying to stay away from the idea that staying at home too much makes one crazy but...ah, I think she was just completely psychotic.
That study's conclusions definitely make a certain amount of sense. I'm not your typical woman in that I am not afraid to negotiate, call a man, or call a firm, and I've definitely seen some negative reactions to it. My whole attitude is that if I don't call, if I don't ask, then I don't have ANY chance, whereas if I do make a move and let people know I'm here, then yes there's a chance of them being put off by my forwardness, but there's also a chance that they won't and that's better than if they don't even know I'm alive.
I agree and i do see lots of disproportionate violence against women. I was just at a talk and one of the speakers was Women Beyond Borders and they were talking about the women of Juarez and i read allot about domestic violence and murder of gf's and wives but military personnel and well as harassment and rape within the us military of fellow soldiers as well as civilians and 'enemies'.
and knowing about the Myth of Redemptive Violence where paganism took a turn from Matriarchy to Patriarchy with the slaying of the grandmother goddess.
then there is always the toxic/destabilizing effects of birth control.
But it is nice to see protections in place and workplaces that give women a extra boost and encouragement to join the professions today because that is a highly needed reparation (who knows how long that will last considering the racist verdict of the neo conservative supreme court last week about segregation)
good luck to all the women out there and know you have feminist allies.
Well that article I posted was very timely for me as I read it about three hours before heading into a salary negotiation of my own. I have been in the process of interviewing for a new job, and today we sat down to negotiate. Before reading the article, I was a bit nervous about asking for the 2k over their offer (it hits the top end of the salary range for the job) but in the end decided to go for it. While it did elicit a momentary freeze in the eyes of the man who made the decision, a few moments later he left to "check his numbers" and returned to give me the thumbs-up and I accepted.
I agree with rationalist - you're screwed if you don't at least try. the worst they could say would be no. I decided that I would ask for the +2k with a bright smile and a statement about accepting the offer on those terms and hope for the best. If he were still to perceive me as being pushy or forward even then, well, there's nothing I can do about it.
It really helped to remember the stats about how starting low effects your long-term earnings.
Today's Wikipedia article of the day....I thought it was pertinent, especially since Jonas just brought the topic back up:
Ecole Polytechnique Massacre
~~~~~
Congrats on getting the salary you asked for, smallpotatoes!
Here's whats weird - on this thread the women are talking about genuine issues they face in the workplace and society. On the men thread all the fella's are talking about are their beauty regimes.
nah. now we're on to condoms and "drilling holes in the media myth that men and manliness are defined by any of those material and social codifers, rather that it has to do with something more." (architechnophilia)
thanks for the link WonderK, stopping violence against women is one of the biggest struggles of today.
Young women in New York and several of the nation’s other largest cities who work full time have forged ahead of men in wages, according to an analysis of recent census data.
The shift has occurred in New York since 2000 and even earlier in Los Angeles, Dallas and a few other cities. More >>
this seems to reflects the higher academic achievement of women that is finally being translated into the workforce and wages.
“It seems that women tend to take less time off between college and law school, and therefore become more senior, and, hence, make more money, at a younger age,” she said. “I would, of course, like to think that means that women know what they want sooner than men. But it probably has more to do with the unfortunate fact that women need to keep in mind biological time constraints and feel a great deal of pressure to build an entire career before refocusing on marriage and children.”
It's important to note that the research is comparing women to men within an urban enviroment, and if in that setting women are on average more educated than the average male, then it makes complete sense that their compensation rates should be higher.
I am pleased to think that perhaps this means that salaries are being awarded more and more based on qualifications and merit to both sexes, but the presentation of the article is a bit misleading.
that fertilizer salesman.. forget his .. yeah. peterson. oj simpson. that 60's producer of girl groups. with the funny wigs.
those stories about an excop killing (or threatening) his kids and 'estranged wife' are in the papers once in awhile. i don't think that kind of crime is changing.
and the fake boobs thing is dumb. there can't be that many ugly boobs (except rush limbaugh, but he's the type of boob that sucks rather than the type that needs sucking :D )
maybe the statistics are faker than the fake boobs. maybe these statistics are part of a plastic surgeons marketing campaign.
if the boobs are 'saggy', let em be saggy.
---
Heck, if I could stand it, which I couldn't, but I would have kid after kid, one year apart, so I could get paid and never work. Wait, isn't that what our Welfare system is?
sure a bear one baby a year, and make what percentage of minimum wage? :-)
and yeah, violence against women is mate violence, and guys are more violent than fems, but what about gay or lesbian couples?
(ah, rationalist wrote the same thing.)
but how to compare net influx of resources? neither continent is a closed system.
also aids is a bigger family problem in africa.
--------------
Steven, there's a pretty strict--while silent--code for wearing makeup to the office. Heels, while they may seem "optional" to some, are well known for being one of the few things that will help a short woman command respect in the workplace
'professional' dress is dull (a designer is supposed to be 'creative' yet deliberately wears frump?), and the 'enforcement' is a symptom of a society dominated by ailing psychology.
perfume and the smelly crappe that sales guys slosh on their hair are disgusting. high heels are a health hazard. neckties and belts are (lesser) hazards.
light blue velour sweatsuit to work. I think it was velour....anyway, it was weird.
baggy velour. that was so 90's. although blue sounds conservative.
Also, if you don't dress well enough (meaning dowdy not slutty) you might be seen as less creative
aha. yeah. you can dress creatively, independent of outskinning brittney. or not. i see way too much dowdy. a lot of interior designers use way too much makeup and still don't make a unique impression.
but i suppose we can claim this dowdy requirement originates with the clients.
Oh my god, e909 is back! It's going to be a great day!!! Welcome back!
Big bump.
I found a very moving piece on women in politics, and HRC in particular, here, if anyone is interested.
Especially like the bit about women tending to become MORE radical as they get older. I wish it were more true - my clientele certainly aren't radical, though I think a push reading something like this might help them get there.
On that note, i encourage folks to read [url=http://www.reason.com/news/show/124402.html]this[/i] article regarding the rise of women in this country over the next generation.
'cuse me article
you know what i so completely angry with that piece, even i can't bring myself to read all of it.
just so we're fair here, the suffrage movement excluded black americans from their "movement" because they knew it would not get them the right to vote to include black americans, so much for a principled voice. when monica lewinsky scandal broke, where was NOW? NOWhere.
what i want to know is this; if women that vote for Barack are traitors to their gender, would white people that vote for Barack be traitors to their race?
i was - and still somewhat undecided now - going to vote for Clinton in the general, if she got the nod, but i still can't get past the gridlock and divisiveness, Bill Clinton co-presidency, and down right assitude of the clintons.
i see the problem more in this light; the people - the old 1960's establishment - that are the most pissed off at what is going on are the people that are so dependent on bigger government, perhaps big daddy, taking care of them, without any desire to or outreach to ask those that need the most help to be part of solution. my mother was on public assistance, and myself and 3 other siblings as well, didn't just sit back on the dole, my mom worked 2 jobs, nearly 20 hrs a day to provide.
i want a womyn in the White House, why can't it be someone better than Hillary, i know there are better out there, why won't they step up?
...uh, ^ comments were to LB's link.
beta, please note that I intentionally did not post that essay on either the Run Hilary Run or Obama '08 thread.
I think it's a powerful reminder to women, completely outside of Indecision '08, that we need to keep striving to make the world better.
And it looks like ya'll are gonna get that chance by default if you read the article I posted.
that's sort of why i didn't respond, lb. i got a little p.o.'d reading it too but didn't talk back because i would have made THIS thread a political thread.
i'd simply say here that i think morgan is making both clinton's strengths and weaknesses in this election ALL ABOUT her being a woman and, in that, she's overcompensating. it's caused her to overlook some big clinton liabilities which are unique to clinton, not general across her gender.
Sheesh, Nacy Pelosi is better than Clinton IMO, and I can't stand Nancy Pelosi all that much.
Well since somebody else brought it up, I now feel compelled to post my thoughts on being a female and voting for President here too. I put it on the Obama thread but I realize many people aren't venturing in that direction these days.
And, to be frank, I couldn't bear to finish the article, mostly because I had a hard time reading it...she doesn't seem to write in complete sentences or all that coherently. It agitated my grammar sensibilities.
Emily, i know you're a smart woman and all, and since we're 'necters I feel obligated to inform you that "irregardless" is not really a word as it is a double negative, try "regardless" instead.
just trying to save you the embarrassment later on.
Emily your blog piece is of course beautifully written and wonderful, and good for you stating proudly the what and why of your choice. The ability for everyone to be able to do that is what the women's movement of the 60s - a leader in which the author I pointed to was - was all about.
But for goodness sake, the piece I posted is a passionate call to (pacifist) arms, not a grammar essay. If you guys don't want to read it, fine, but don't go off half-cocked (yes, I chose those words) over what it says if you don't bother to read it through to the end. I found it moving, to be reminded of what my mother and her generation struggled to achieve so that I can achieve what I have and still desire to.
Apu, I enjoyed the article you linked to. Maybe "enjoyed" isn't the right word. I fear we are in a time when yes, women are becoming better educated, yet as a society we are making choices that will negate that potential gain in shared knowledge. I can't offer any specific examples, but creationism and politicized "scientific findings" come to mind. It is clear that many societies fear intelligence in general, and sadly the bigger the fear the more the target of frustration seems to be intelligent women. And yes, in a way that is insignificant compared to the experience of, say, a woman in Afghanistan, I am speaking from experience. And THAT is why I chose to post this essay here, not in a political thread.
lb, i know, i just get worked up over this kind of rhetoric from people. as though Caroline's voice doesn't count, Rory Kennedy doesn't count, Maria Shriver doesn't count, Joan Baez doesn't count...and any number of women voting for Barack, including my wife and sister don't count! Somehow they are all betraying women by voting for Barack. I was at headquarters making a ton of phone calls to older women needing rides to vote for Barack, and they're all crazy too? Most of the people, between 50-60%, at headquarters are women, and most of the Field Organizers I have worked with are women, driven and abundantly qualified to run any god damned thing in this world, without men.
Take pride in the power of women to think and do, without anyone telling them what or how to think!
Yes, beta, exactly. I was trying to advocate vote for the person on his or her merits alone, not race, sex, or who you're married to, in the Hillary thread, but apparently that last one never goes over too well.
and lb, I'm sorry about the political comment, I'll stop that here.
I just wanted everyone to know that I'm leaving the word "irregardless" in my blog intentionally, to spite everyone who keeps telling me that it's not a word. If that lady in the link above can write in half-sentences and get her writing passed around the web, I can use made up words in my wee little blog.
Because it's my blog, I like the sound of the word, I'm a FREE WOMAN, and I can.
;oP
maria may be the best chance for arnold to reach the white house... her speech was pretty rousing. nancy has a cush and powerful job that is ten times better then getting into the whitehouse - so don't expect her to run.
any other womyn worth watching to follow hilary's run? oprah? emily?
a word from woody guthrie...
Ten hundred books could I write you about her
Cause I felt if I could know her
I would know all women
And they've not been any too well known
For brains and planning and organized thinking
But I'm sure the women are equal
And they may be ahead of the men
Yet I wouldn't spread such a rumor around
Cause one organizes the other
And sometimes the most lost and wasted
Attract the most balanced and sane
And the wild and the reckless take up
With the clocked and the timed
And the mixture is all of us
And we're still mixing
But never never never
Never could have it been done
If the women hadn't entered into the deal
Like she came along to me
And all creeds and kinds and colors
Of us are blending
Till I suppose ten million years from now
We'll all be just alike
Same color, same size, working together
And maybe we'll have all of the fascists
Out of the way by then
Maybe so
But never never never
Never could have it been done
If the women hadn't entered into the deal
Like she came along to me
It's a good questipon, tk, who else might be a viable woman to become president. My fear, and I say this with no intent to be melodramatic, but from a deep sense of reality, is that any woman who steps up to do so will somehow be found to be "unelectable" just like Hilary is. Look at how many truly powerful women there are in DC (a small handful, honestly), and how resoundingly hated and mocked so many of them are.
I would think the right woman might not be in DC but a Governor who
is brought to the front on what she has accomplished for her State. It
is time for new faces....and new ideas.....someone outside of the box. I acknowledge HRC is a bright woman but with alot of baggage.
I never much liked the Arkansas Land Deal that sent a woman to Jail because she would never come forth and say what she knew. Those kind of things lingering in the background are very suspect. I think it
is time to break away from dynasty presidential candidates. I have had enough of Bush and Bush and Clinton and Clinton. What we will be seeing is a replay of his time in office, being surrounded by all the
follow alongs for political appointments. If you don't think so I think
you might have your head in the sand. There will be alot of political
appointments associated with the Bill years and that just bothers the hell out of me. Let America Be Free!
.....get away from me he....
Also, more generally: I think it's funny how often media articles about architects use the term "blueprint" as a metaphor!
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