There's only room for one black starchitect, just like there seems to be a limit on the number of female starchitects (Hadid definitely, maybe Diller and Sejima?). I dont think this makes architecture any different from the world at large.
Yes Client, perhaps Starchitect is a silly term afterall...but thats how things have been "projected" in the media and eventually thats what people believe in...Starchitect!! As pointed out in this forum the architecture seems no different than world at large.....
I think Laura Hartman from Fernau and Hartman in Berkeley and Patricia Patkau from Patkau in Vancouver are pretty well known...on the West Coast anyway.
I think we've exhausted the list of possible black Starchitects. It is understandably not well represented at the highest or most popular level (what starchitects questionably are) as archtectural schools & institutions were not well represented by minorities in North America & Europe.
and I'm not too sure what defines black anyway, not to say we need to go into distinctions of quadroon, octaroon, etc again (we could do withouot that)
It's a matter of percentages... the limited amount of black starchitects is a result of the low percentage of black architects. My only guess for the lack of more black architects is that black people are smarter than most of us are.
Dear Seeker,
Yes, perhaps black people are smarter in not coming into architecture......they would be better off in basketball.............
Nevermore,
Isn't my question obvious enough? Of all the stalwarts that we have, there isnt any one from the black community....is it because the profession runs strictly on the socio-economic-ethno-cultural (shall we say) "divide"?
Kartik, I dont think its because of any socio-economic -ethno-cultural thing whatever. or 'divide' .
In my humble view, you dont get to see many black architects ( or artists for that matter even , ) is cos they as a race are generally not drawn towards the arts. ' generally' if i May add.
of course there are always exceptions.
they may be more drawn towards other fields such as sports,music ( and that too certain genre only ) etc .
Thats my simple analysis for it.
Well lastly, Your name sounds Indian, ( Im Indian too ) if you are, then I dont know from which locational context that you have based ur assumption or inferences on. There's no such divide from anywhere Ive seen.
For that matter, how many world famous Indian architects do u know of,?? --not more than can be counted on the divisions of 2-3 fingers.
That doesnt mean thats there some kind of divide between us and the rest of the world.
There's always some kind of 'favoritism in every field . but a reason why I still respect our profession is cos Its pure talent,exposure, experience and business skill that gets u successfull and not your skin colour or roots.
"In my humble view, you dont get to see many black architects ( or artists for that matter even , ) is cos they as a race are generally not drawn towards the arts. ' generally' if i May add."
You have got to be kidding with that statement. There are tons of black people in the arts-just not architecture. And only a certain type of music? Are you American? There are black people in all kinds of music-just some types get more exposure than others.
"There's always some kind of 'favoritism in every field . but a reason why I still respect our profession is cos Its pure talent,exposure, experience and business skill that gets u successfull and not your skin colour or roots."
I dont totally agree. I think a lot of it is connections to potential clients and the ability to put those clients at ease and not seem like you are going to rock the boat or anything. Black people are disproportionately poor and therefore are less likely to have access to potential clients who have the capital to commission a project. Architecture isnt even middle class, IMHO you need upper class clients or institutional support to get a project off the ground and because wealth (in the US at least) is concentrated in white hands, white architects, especially upper class ones, will have more chances to do their own projects. Also, people like to work and associate with their own kind and that also keeps people who arent necessarily mainstream (women, non white guys, people from lower class backgrounds) from getting chances. All my opinion obviously.
But you can be a crappy architect and if you have wealthy friends and connections, you can get more work/exposure than a "talented" architect. It really is a profession for/by/about the privileged and the status quo. Not bitter about it, that's just the way of the world.
oldirty, No Im not american, Im Indian as i said.
and yes true i agree arch is essentially upper class but I dont buy the argument completely,
If its wealth, per capita income etc that matters to become successful, then we should be seeing for.eg. more star Saudi Arabian architects designing if not in their own orthodox country but in other nations. but thats not happening.
There are no Saudi starchitects because all their service sector industry is run by outsiders (people from other nationality)...and major cream Saudi projects go to Starchitects....ha!!
But Im saying that talent is an over-rated aspect of making it in architecture. It's too idealistic to me to think that if youre talented, the world is your oyster. It's not true.
yeah, elvischyld, i was surprised mario gooden came up before ray huff since huff was the first of the two i knew. and, as you said, these guys are great and should be bigger stars than they are.
but i actually respect their lesser-known status as specific to them. it has less to do with race than with who they are as architects: they pursue rigorous work that also exhibits a humility and sophistication that some of the starchitects probably wouldn't understand. they allow their teaching to inform their work and vice versa. and they have always been linked, for me, with the development of a southeastern u.s. regional voice, for lack of a better word. their work is rooted in their place and is therefore (for me) somehow more honest and carries more integrity, despite the fact that it might not get them a project in dubai.
on the percentage of black people in the profession, that's a tough one. i've been involved in both recruitment efforts and in teaching and it's not easy to get the word out to black students that architecture is an option, that they might be interested in it, or that they might be good at it. generally architecture is not a path that many have considered.
and then, once you get black students into the studio, there are so few that there is no support network of other black students for them to feel part of. almost every black student i ever had in a studio eventually quit. it was just a matter of how many semesters they lasted.
i've seen a few persevere and they've been great. but their survival was because they themselves were both talented and strong and they were able to build their own support networks, whether in or out of the architecture school, not because the schools give them very many survival tools or support to make it.
I think as we see the socio-economic rise of blacks in the U.S., so too will we see their numbers rise in studios. Yet, when your coming from the low end of the spectrum, chances are pretty likely your going to pick marketing, finance, or business as a major. Majors that have potentially high-paying jobs after college that don't require epic amounts of work and talent. Richer kids can afford to put themselves through the crucible that is arch school. Now i've gotta go run to concrete class in the snow.
i think we should all stick to architecture and spend less time on socio-economic speculation. these generalizations are so full of shit, they border on racist. i am white, come from a economically disadvantaged family unit; mother single from when i was 12, raised four kids, had to survive on public assistance and the charity of others. so where do i fit in with your "rich kids" Apurimac? are all those that are of african-american background immediately assumed to be poor or "...from the low end of the spectrum...?" let me get this right, all poor people want to be rich? why? cause that's another horses ass statement. why does success equal money for you? i really am offended by these kinds of comments, even those seemingly innocent comments like, "your name sounds indian, is it...?" or words to that effect.
let me ask those from India here a question; it seems that all the indians i have ever met with college education and a wealthy family, seem to look down at the lower classes in india - and obviously here as well - as though they are not worthy of an education or some financial stability.
how is that as a generalization? does it represent you? is it a fair assessment of who you are, because of the few Hindus, Sikhs, Muslim and other Indians i have met?
while i understand your bristling about generalizations, beta, part of dealing with race is discussing race.
whether you're well-informed or not well-informed, having someone tell you to stop talking about race issues - in our case, relative to our profession specifically - breeds resentment, indifference, and further alienation between races. we have to have open dialogue with no scolding.
you're right of course. bring on the popping of generalizations! the rejection of the equation of race with socioeconomic differences! etc. those are valuable parts of the conversation.
even those seemingly innocent comments like, "your name sounds indian, is it...?"
The guy who created this thread, I thought he was an african-american ,till I saw his name which showed that he's Indian , so that comment of mine was in reference to that...because that kinda confused me.
I wouldnt have asked that question if he had probably posted
" Why no Indian starchitect "?
let me ask those from India here a question; it seems that all the indians i have ever met with college education and a wealthy family, seem to look down at the lower classes in india
If I may answer
Well, Betadine first of all , with all due respect to your sentiments
(Im talking for all my fellow Indians : hindus and Sikhs and Muslims ) we dont look down upon lower classes in our country as well as if we are in yours as a matter of principle .
There may be some exceptions as always but Privileged classes worldwide look down upon unprivileged ones.
I havent been to the states , but I think Im sure that most rich whites look down upon poor whites or black or others and
most rich blacks look down upon poor blacks or whites....but thats cos its a human mindset. I think its a fact of life.
-------------------
i think we should all stick to architecture and spend less time on socio-economic speculation
I could not agree more , all this speculation is Bullshit.
Dear Nevermore,
Being an indian or mexican or srilankan or whatever, let us consider the facts....
There are many many Black people and colored ones are engaged in practicing architecture all over the world, but if you make a list of say, top ten (however silly this idea may seem-the top ten starchitects!!) you will not likely find true representation of all the people....you may correct me here...
It is not about pitting race against race.....it MAY be about focussing on larger people.....but again all these people must have that kind of body of work to focus on....coming full circle... to the fact that cream work goes to a certain people (seemingly so)...
put really what I am going to do it get the PR behind.
I'm going to take the Absolut Vodka approach to my architectural practice...building massive hype about my work, about me, and then...poof appear. Purple mohawk, blacken skin, sandals, square or rectangular glasses, facial tattoos (i have to represent the maori), speaking franco-swiss, and silk black suit from armani with an old navy t-shirt (black)
the emergence of the architechnophilia....[re]born
Black Starchitect!!
Just wondering why there is no Black Starchitect? Is this a good question to ask?
david adjaye is pretty famous.
definetly
but i must admit, finding another example is quite tricky
what about Marlon Blackwell?
There's only room for one black starchitect, just like there seems to be a limit on the number of female starchitects (Hadid definitely, maybe Diller and Sejima?). I dont think this makes architecture any different from the world at large.
add billie tsien, olddirty
Alpha C. Blackburn
she was a panelist on the 2006 state of the black union
...its up to NOMA now
starchitect is a silly term
Mario Gooden:
http://www.huffgooden.com/
http://architecture.about.com/cs/architectsmasters/tp/blackarchitects.htm
http://www.blackrefer.com/black-architects1.html
some resources
and
http://www.noma.net/local/
Yes Client, perhaps Starchitect is a silly term afterall...but thats how things have been "projected" in the media and eventually thats what people believe in...Starchitect!! As pointed out in this forum the architecture seems no different than world at large.....
architects aren’t famous except to a very small minority of enthusiasts.
I think Laura Hartman from Fernau and Hartman in Berkeley and Patricia Patkau from Patkau in Vancouver are pretty well known...on the West Coast anyway.
Laura Hartman is a cool woman too.
"The West Coast is the Best Coast"
archinects are not famous. anna nichole smith was famous...
walter hood - and he has the dreads of a rock star
(ok, he really is a 'scaper)
billie tsien? thought she was asian-american, shows that race is a complicated artificial construct...
Alpha Blackburn isn't an architect. She was a television journalist (I believe) and the widow of Walter Blackburn. She's just the CEO of the firm now.
i thought we were all using "starchitect" sarcastically... i dont think the non-arch population has picked up that little linguistic gem quite yet.
if you bring up mario gooden, i feel its only fair to bring up his partner - ray huff. both men are incredibly talented.
TK, Tsien for female starchitects.
Dennis Alan Mann
I think we've exhausted the list of possible black Starchitects. It is understandably not well represented at the highest or most popular level (what starchitects questionably are) as archtectural schools & institutions were not well represented by minorities in North America & Europe.
and that context makes David Adjaye's rise more amazing (he's also just a kid)
and I'm not too sure what defines black anyway, not to say we need to go into distinctions of quadroon, octaroon, etc again (we could do withouot that)
It's a matter of percentages... the limited amount of black starchitects is a result of the low percentage of black architects. My only guess for the lack of more black architects is that black people are smarter than most of us are.
lol
if i were black, i would prefer to be basketball player stars... lots of gals and money after each match... and what do we get after a competition??
kartik, nice question, just curious to know what was your intention behind asking it.
Dear Seeker,
Yes, perhaps black people are smarter in not coming into architecture......they would be better off in basketball.............
Nevermore,
Isn't my question obvious enough? Of all the stalwarts that we have, there isnt any one from the black community....is it because the profession runs strictly on the socio-economic-ethno-cultural (shall we say) "divide"?
Kartik, I dont think its because of any socio-economic -ethno-cultural thing whatever. or 'divide' .
In my humble view, you dont get to see many black architects ( or artists for that matter even , ) is cos they as a race are generally not drawn towards the arts. ' generally' if i May add.
of course there are always exceptions.
they may be more drawn towards other fields such as sports,music ( and that too certain genre only ) etc .
Thats my simple analysis for it.
Well lastly, Your name sounds Indian, ( Im Indian too ) if you are, then I dont know from which locational context that you have based ur assumption or inferences on. There's no such divide from anywhere Ive seen.
For that matter, how many world famous Indian architects do u know of,?? --not more than can be counted on the divisions of 2-3 fingers.
That doesnt mean thats there some kind of divide between us and the rest of the world.
There's always some kind of 'favoritism in every field . but a reason why I still respect our profession is cos Its pure talent,exposure, experience and business skill that gets u successfull and not your skin colour or roots.
"In my humble view, you dont get to see many black architects ( or artists for that matter even , ) is cos they as a race are generally not drawn towards the arts. ' generally' if i May add."
You have got to be kidding with that statement. There are tons of black people in the arts-just not architecture. And only a certain type of music? Are you American? There are black people in all kinds of music-just some types get more exposure than others.
"There's always some kind of 'favoritism in every field . but a reason why I still respect our profession is cos Its pure talent,exposure, experience and business skill that gets u successfull and not your skin colour or roots."
I dont totally agree. I think a lot of it is connections to potential clients and the ability to put those clients at ease and not seem like you are going to rock the boat or anything. Black people are disproportionately poor and therefore are less likely to have access to potential clients who have the capital to commission a project. Architecture isnt even middle class, IMHO you need upper class clients or institutional support to get a project off the ground and because wealth (in the US at least) is concentrated in white hands, white architects, especially upper class ones, will have more chances to do their own projects. Also, people like to work and associate with their own kind and that also keeps people who arent necessarily mainstream (women, non white guys, people from lower class backgrounds) from getting chances. All my opinion obviously.
But you can be a crappy architect and if you have wealthy friends and connections, you can get more work/exposure than a "talented" architect. It really is a profession for/by/about the privileged and the status quo. Not bitter about it, that's just the way of the world.
oldirty, No Im not american, Im Indian as i said.
and yes true i agree arch is essentially upper class but I dont buy the argument completely,
If its wealth, per capita income etc that matters to become successful, then we should be seeing for.eg. more star Saudi Arabian architects designing if not in their own orthodox country but in other nations. but thats not happening.
There are no Saudi starchitects because all their service sector industry is run by outsiders (people from other nationality)...and major cream Saudi projects go to Starchitects....ha!!
so then we come back to a part of the same argument that wealth and 'upper-classness' may get contacts but will not give talent.
But Im saying that talent is an over-rated aspect of making it in architecture. It's too idealistic to me to think that if youre talented, the world is your oyster. It's not true.
We can say that there are two types of architects, one, who are talented and the others who are successful....
WOW! One of my favorite artists is Jean Michel Basquiat
i hate generalizations, it'd be like me saying, fuck all.
yeah, elvischyld, i was surprised mario gooden came up before ray huff since huff was the first of the two i knew. and, as you said, these guys are great and should be bigger stars than they are.
but i actually respect their lesser-known status as specific to them. it has less to do with race than with who they are as architects: they pursue rigorous work that also exhibits a humility and sophistication that some of the starchitects probably wouldn't understand. they allow their teaching to inform their work and vice versa. and they have always been linked, for me, with the development of a southeastern u.s. regional voice, for lack of a better word. their work is rooted in their place and is therefore (for me) somehow more honest and carries more integrity, despite the fact that it might not get them a project in dubai.
on the percentage of black people in the profession, that's a tough one. i've been involved in both recruitment efforts and in teaching and it's not easy to get the word out to black students that architecture is an option, that they might be interested in it, or that they might be good at it. generally architecture is not a path that many have considered.
and then, once you get black students into the studio, there are so few that there is no support network of other black students for them to feel part of. almost every black student i ever had in a studio eventually quit. it was just a matter of how many semesters they lasted.
i've seen a few persevere and they've been great. but their survival was because they themselves were both talented and strong and they were able to build their own support networks, whether in or out of the architecture school, not because the schools give them very many survival tools or support to make it.
I think as we see the socio-economic rise of blacks in the U.S., so too will we see their numbers rise in studios. Yet, when your coming from the low end of the spectrum, chances are pretty likely your going to pick marketing, finance, or business as a major. Majors that have potentially high-paying jobs after college that don't require epic amounts of work and talent. Richer kids can afford to put themselves through the crucible that is arch school. Now i've gotta go run to concrete class in the snow.
wasnt Geoffrey Bawa, Black architect?? he was a STAR for sure..maybe didnt lived in the STARchitect era...but he's definetly on that league
i think we should all stick to architecture and spend less time on socio-economic speculation. these generalizations are so full of shit, they border on racist. i am white, come from a economically disadvantaged family unit; mother single from when i was 12, raised four kids, had to survive on public assistance and the charity of others. so where do i fit in with your "rich kids" Apurimac? are all those that are of african-american background immediately assumed to be poor or "...from the low end of the spectrum...?" let me get this right, all poor people want to be rich? why? cause that's another horses ass statement. why does success equal money for you? i really am offended by these kinds of comments, even those seemingly innocent comments like, "your name sounds indian, is it...?" or words to that effect.
let me ask those from India here a question; it seems that all the indians i have ever met with college education and a wealthy family, seem to look down at the lower classes in india - and obviously here as well - as though they are not worthy of an education or some financial stability.
how is that as a generalization? does it represent you? is it a fair assessment of who you are, because of the few Hindus, Sikhs, Muslim and other Indians i have met?
while i understand your bristling about generalizations, beta, part of dealing with race is discussing race.
whether you're well-informed or not well-informed, having someone tell you to stop talking about race issues - in our case, relative to our profession specifically - breeds resentment, indifference, and further alienation between races. we have to have open dialogue with no scolding.
you're right of course. bring on the popping of generalizations! the rejection of the equation of race with socioeconomic differences! etc. those are valuable parts of the conversation.
oh, i agree, but these generalizations seemingly pop up here and are left unrefuted and somehow become in a sense an unflinching reality.
The guy who created this thread, I thought he was an african-american ,till I saw his name which showed that he's Indian , so that comment of mine was in reference to that...because that kinda confused me.
I wouldnt have asked that question if he had probably posted
" Why no Indian starchitect "?
Anyways He may have his reasons.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
let me ask those from India here a question; it seems that all the indians i have ever met with college education and a wealthy family, seem to look down at the lower classes in india
If I may answer
Well, Betadine first of all , with all due respect to your sentiments
(Im talking for all my fellow Indians : hindus and Sikhs and Muslims ) we dont look down upon lower classes in our country as well as if we are in yours as a matter of principle .
There may be some exceptions as always but Privileged classes worldwide look down upon unprivileged ones.
I havent been to the states , but I think Im sure that most rich whites look down upon poor whites or black or others and
most rich blacks look down upon poor blacks or whites....but thats cos its a human mindset. I think its a fact of life.
-------------------
i think we should all stick to architecture and spend less time on socio-economic speculation
I could not agree more , all this speculation is Bullshit.
Dear Nevermore,
Being an indian or mexican or srilankan or whatever, let us consider the facts....
There are many many Black people and colored ones are engaged in practicing architecture all over the world, but if you make a list of say, top ten (however silly this idea may seem-the top ten starchitects!!) you will not likely find true representation of all the people....you may correct me here...
It is not about pitting race against race.....it MAY be about focussing on larger people.....but again all these people must have that kind of body of work to focus on....coming full circle... to the fact that cream work goes to a certain people (seemingly so)...
So where we are?
kartik we (architectural community) have one...just one - David Adjaye
put really what I am going to do it get the PR behind.
I'm going to take the Absolut Vodka approach to my architectural practice...building massive hype about my work, about me, and then...poof appear. Purple mohawk, blacken skin, sandals, square or rectangular glasses, facial tattoos (i have to represent the maori), speaking franco-swiss, and silk black suit from armani with an old navy t-shirt (black)
the emergence of the architechnophilia....[re]born
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