archie - it's over two years later and a totally different economy/job climate. Care to comment on any changes you've seen from the youngin's
I reread my posts from '07 and largely haven't changed my mind. Upon repeated requests to my employer that I be given more responsibility I was given a pseudo promotion of basically giving me one type of project in one region. Making me a specalist of sorts. Day to day job is no different. Still haven't been included in contract negotiations or management arenas that I'm seeking. (Is that a move to prevent me from going on my own and stealing clients?) I wasn't expecting to be promoted to principal, but clearly nobody in their early 30's is being given much more than Project Architect responsibility, even when asked. A recent example is one project has a site observation due. I've continually asked to do the visit. To date I have over 10 years experience and am confident I can handle a routine site observation. Instead someone with "more experience" is sent...someone not familiar with the project, and I'm kept at my desk. Like I said way way up thread two years back - how long do I have to wait??? A great motivator would be to at least give me a taste. I've clearly stated my intentions of wanting more management roles, more upper level client contact, more field contact and less sitting behind a computer screen. I would think in 10 years I would be seeing some progress towards where I want to be. From where I sit today I can't say I've seen much. Now the economy as it is has put those goals on the back burner, and keeping a job on the front. Still, someday the older generation will have to turn this profession over to my generation. If someone in his mid-30's isn't given proper experience now, how am I to handle the job in the future?
One more note. I had a boss that used to talk about how he was promoted to partner before he was 40 years of age. Is that happening to anyone this day and age? I would absolutely love opportunity like that. Instead (where I'm at) management is hired from outside. How does that help motivation?
Hi aquapura;
Sounds like you are in the wrong firm. I have no idea why a firm would not give a willing and capable young architect more responsibility. I don't know what to tell you but keep asking. In my firm, we will let anyone go to a site meeting if they want to learn what happens there. Have you tried asking to tag along if they think you can't handle it on your own? If they say no, offer to do it on your own time. (work late to make up the time. ) or ask them how the heck you are supposed to learn if they won't let you go??? I am baffled. Your experience is so different than mine. We offer to let interns go to job meetings, even if they had nothing to do with the job, and pay them for it up to an hour a month. Yet I have only had one intern ask in a year. Maybe it is because they are getting enough experience with their current responsibilities, I don't know. I know now is not a good time to look, but when the economy turns around, other employers will be looking for someone like you.
So two years later, things have changed, but mostly with me. I kept hiring and got rid of some non performers, which shook up a few people. I got a little meaner, and instead of always covering for people and being mad about it, I have taken a couple of people aside and pretty much laid down the law with them. So I guess I am not as nice of a boss, but I am happier about the work we produce. I got better at hiring. The last three of four hires have been wonderful, exceeded my expectations. The fourth we got rid of after 3 months because she could not meet our quality standards. Fortunately for us the market was such that we could replace her. As for a few of the people who have been on the edge, they have stepped up for the most part. Two of them are almost licensed, and they have been taking on more responsibility. Not perfect, but getting closer.
I do still think there is a generational difference but maybe it has more to do with upbringing than an age thing. Many architects of my age grew up in blue color families, and our expectations of how we would be treated in the work place are different. Our expectations of how hard we would have to work were different. Our expectations of how we would live, and how much money we would have to spend were different. If you wanted to get ahead, you had to work hard in school, work to put yourself thru college, and fight for a job. A whole family had one used car, you brought your bag lunch to work, the kids all had hand me down clothes, you saved money to cover expenses and did not use credit cards. Things are different now. OR WERE different. Maybe the current economy will put us on a different track.
I know right now, every one of my employees is glad to have a job, glad we are still paying all the benefits, glad they got bonuses at the end of the year. All of them have friends who have been laid off or have had pay cuts. We gave everyone a talk a month ago reviewing our plan for surviving this year and most of them seemed pretty happy and relieved.
seems like there are some 'they' and there are some he or she (s).
i feel, it is elders responsibility and interest to keep the younger people motivated as well as finding the motivated ones and give them the opportunity.
i don't believe keeping someone for a long time with whom you have to use a wrench to get something out. fire them's ass and maybe they'll be motivated next time.
2 cents worth.
01/02/07 13:27
two years ago in my only post in here i said this and still valid. but i don't think anybody who has a project right now has to worry about geting people motivated. mdler said, it was $$$$. pure survival money...
We are in talks with two people now who are under 30 about partnership, and both my partner and I were partners in other firms before 40. I think we were 33 and 35. It is very possible.
archie - couple things to note, these site observations are in a different state requiring significant travel expenses. "Tagging along" isn't an economical option, especially these days. That said, I still think I'm more than qualified to handle it. Also, I'm working in a large corporate firm. Partly out of motivation to work on larger more complex projects and partly for the pay and benefits it has awarded me. I'm doing better than all my friends working in smaller firms. Still, I don't think that should make a difference in prospects for advancement. As you're well aware, most of my co-workers have no desire for any added responsibility. I'm fine with that as many of them are excellent detail oriented people. I just desire to be their boss someday. How long my patience holds out is another matter.
Its neat this thread got bumped because in the two years I've had three jobs in the industry and can make a more informed post.
I'm 23 now and I'm currently working part-time for a small, mostly res. interiors firm in NYC and I can say that money is single-handedly one of the biggest motivators out there. My current boss offered me an ungodly salary for a part-time intern when I started and went full time in the summer. I have never worked harder in my life than I did in summer '08 for anybody and it paid off. We're only a 4 person firm (2 drafters/pm's, 1 sec and 1 arch) and when the other drafter left to go back to school I was pretty much put in charge of our projects, with my boss of course. The results, for someone so green were mixed, but the added responsibility and the high pay made a world of difference. Also, my boss micro-manages alot and when you're green that's really helpful. One of the things the net-generation needs is constant feedback, which is something many gen-x and baby boomer bosses don't give. I volunteered to go to client meetings and worked many, many Saturdays (and I think even a Sunday). Another thing that's helpful, for me at least, is information. If i'm supposed to help out with a project I like to be informed about all its aspects so I can offer the most help and it also makes me feel apart of the job and not just some CAD monkey, this includes discussions of client psychology (very important) and the projects financial status. My boss can be a real ball-breaker and the stress really did wear in after three months but seeing a bonus check (i thought it was a payroll glitch at first), as an intern, for a relatively large amount, made me feel like my boss really did care about all that effort I put in. It made all those long nights and weekends seem worthwhile and more importantly it meant all the ball-busting wasn't really reflected on me as a person but rather it was his own way of trying to improve the caliber of work.
One of the biggest de-motivators however, is having to detail/design really bad ideas that usually come from clients and can't be avoided. For example, if your client base has tastes similar to that of your employees they'll have more fun doing the CAD/detail work. However if you've got a bunch of kids who studied in the vein of rigorous modernism and they're asked to detail some garish beaux-arts bedroom it will drain on morale. If your clients are heavy on traditionalism it may help to hire kids out of schools like Notre Dame, U of Miami and other schools that have traditionalist leanings.
How much of an active mentor are you to your green employees? My bosses were hostile to breaking down the (at first)seemingly enormous and mysterious process of professional architecture. I was not trained, and made some very big mistakes in projects because of that, of which I still believe it was my bosses responsibility to *help* me see. He did not. It was certainly a wake up call to be pulled off a project I had seen through CDs because of the problematic state things were in, but it was not because I was not motivated enough (I've worked more than my share of overtime, taken care of my office cleanup/organization, answer phones, run copies, etc etc etc).
Money and a threatening economy are big motivators - but I still believe that an active mentor-apprentice relationship is the biggest problem with our profession today. In my opinion it is irresponsible for design employers to remain hands off with green employees. Direct and personal interaction is how you teach (kids) how to work in an office, how to think about drawings, how to pull them apart, put them back together, maintain a proper perspective on time, etc. Its not enough to go pull graphic standards and wonder if the thing you drew even makes sense for the project.
Greenies lack the 'why' which is what seasoned professionals have. Sure, trial by fire works for some things, but you end up with a bunch of interns or full time employees who do stupid things that end up in the hands of contractors/clients/city officials because they don't know about those things holistically.
I suspect there is an age issue which is an issue in American culture. There is also, for some, an issue of vanity which keeps these new hires from active communication because they don't want to look stupid. But they are, we are.
One thing to consider about the "glass ceiling" I'm currently experiencing. In the few offices I've worked in the primary age of the management (principals/partners) has been mid to late 50's. Boomers of the 1950's era. Seems largely those born in the 60's haven't had the problem of being tagged "youngster's" but people like me born in the 1970's have always been looked down upon. Is it a negativity that boomers see in the Gen X stigma? Clearly the children of the 80's (Gen Y) are the newbies in the profession these days, yet I still don't feel fully respected as someone who is well beyond the "wet behind the ears" days.
Aquapura, maybe part of the problem is your boomers are not yet ready to give up the reins. If they are in their mid 50's, they might be thinking they want to stick around for another 10 to 15 years. Maybe longer with this economy and the shape their 401k's are in. One of the mistakes in their thinking is that it takes about 10 years for a good ownership transition to happen in an architectural firm.
Have they ever had a discussion about ownership transistion?
Do they have a plan for ownership transition? Perhaps they are looking at bringing on 40 year olds and think you are too young. In an ideal world they would be thinking of building a tier of leaders who are now in their 40's, one tier in their 30's, and even starting to identify those in their 20's who would be on a leadership track
here is another idea- (I am assuming there is a middle management level in your firm) find someone who has started to break thru the glass ceiling, even if it is someone a bit older than you, and pick their brains about how they did it in your firm. See if they will mentor you and try to be your advocate for getting more responsibility. Just be aware that in some very corporate firms, there is a lot of juggling for position, and it might be difficult to find someone who is not afraid of having you take over some of their 'status'.
The first thing you need to realize about most young aspiring architects is that they are woefully unprepared to competently complete almost any task in the real world immediately upon graduation. In my opinion, architecture schools do a very disappointing job in educating students on building science and technology. And what's the first task you hand an intern? Developing construction details! When pretty much all they've covered in school is design theory. Essentially, the first thing they're told is that they don't know jack! Don't get me wrong, the recent grad needs to know how to put a set of construction documents together. That's just an example. But the initial mindset of most young architects if they are honest with themselves is that they have no idea what they're doing. Can you see why they'd be hesitant? They need to be shown the right way to do things in every phase of a project. That means no pigeon-holing but providing a well-rounded experience. That means holding their hand initially. That means really truly mentoring. A hit to the bottom line in the short run pays off umpteen times in the long run. They've been called "interns" because they're supposed to be receiving training. Do you work on projects along side them or do you just throw a pile of drawings in their lap and tell them to get it done? Do you explain to them why you have to revise their drawings or does it go unmentioned? Do you let them shadow you in and out of the office or do you make them sit in a chair and stare blearily into a computer screen all day, every day? Do you give them design freedom and really let them contribute or are their designs just a regurgitation of your own? You can't learn from your mistakes if you don't know why it was a mistake. You could have the fastest sprint time in the world, but it is hard to run for your medal when no one told you where the finish line is. Young architects need and often seem to be lacking both direction AND opportunity. It seems like you are providing some opportunity so kudos for that. That's more than I can say for a lot of firms. But as for all the trial by fire talk, what firm do you know that is really going to expose their client to the risk? I've seen a lot of intelligent people with great ideas get a bad rap in this biz simply because they weren't provided or directed to the right resources to do the job properly and stigmatized for it ever after.
beekay - very intellegent comment. While I do agree with your comments about employers needing to be involved in the training of young architects I do think you hint upon the greater problem.
Architecture education is woefully preparing graduates for the "real" world of working in an architecture firm. If CD's are upwards of 50% of the work we do why aren't graduates skilled in knowing how to put together a set of working drawings? Why aren't they skilled in basic materials & methods? There are two year associate degree programs that do a better job at this than professional BArch & MArch programs.
Why is it the employer's job to teach the realities of this profession??? Quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of colleges hiding behind the veil of architecture being a "design" degree when it's much much more multi-faceted than that.
If Architecture graduates could start working more independantly from day one this would only benefit the profitiability of firms, which in turn would benefit intern pay and so on. We all like to tout the diversity of our degrees, yet I'm a strong advocate for making the architecture degree less of a liberal arts education and a much more technical in nature. I believe the benefits for the traditional work of architecture would be profound.
I do still think there is a generational difference but maybe it has more to do with upbringing than an age thing. Many architects of my age grew up in blue color families, and our expectations of how we would be treated in the work place are different. Our expectations of how hard we would have to work were different. Our expectations of how we would live, and how much money we would have to spend were different. If you wanted to get ahead, you had to work hard in school, work to put yourself thru college, and fight for a job. A whole family had one used car, you brought your bag lunch to work, the kids all had hand me down clothes, you saved money to cover expenses and did not use credit cards. Things are different now. OR WERE different. Maybe the current economy will put us on a different track.
you can't move up in the same way that the older generation did. It's a lot harder, way more complicated in terms of skill sets, and since the older generation seems to feel a little left in the dust technologically, they often forget that there are some more valuable management skills that they should be imparting instead of trying to keep up with the tools. I think lack of motivation is just a symptom of this disconnect between generations - for example - it's tough staying motivated when you feel like you are the one doing all the work, and your boss does not understand what it takes to do this work. young people feel like they are getting taken advantage of because there is no shared responsibility.
One way of combatting this is to simply show your younger staff that you are also working hard by allowing them to participate in management tasks. If they can see that what you are doing is valuable to moving the project forward, they'll be more motivated to ramp up their efforts. However - the best way to keep someone motivated is if you can do the same things they are doing because it's easier for them to identify that you are putting in the same effort they are.
Those are good points toasteroven. We do have a divide in our generations due to technology that did not exist as strongly when I was young. The biggest technology leap I made was trying to get my first boss to let me use rapidigraph pens for inking on linen instead of using the ancient ruling pen that you filled with ink from an eye dropper every line or two. (I kid you not!!!)
The lack of respect goes both ways. I see it on this forum that the youngsters diss the oldsters because they cannot use CAD, or don't understand shortcuts, etc. Then some older folks try to keep the youngins from moving ahead because they want to keep them drafting to make up for their lack of ability, and this is not fair. It is a problem. In the old days, we could all hit the boards and draw, but that is no longer the case.
Hopefully that split will go away in a few year when it is a rare architect who does not have basic computer drafting skills, and has not experienced first hand what it takes to create drawings on cad. In the meantime, your suggestion to let them see the management end of a project is a good suggestion for all parties .
it's hard to stay motivated when you did work the long hours, take responsibility, demonstrated you cared, asked questions and was still laid off and now no one will pay attention to your resume or call you to schedule an interview. the profession isn't making a good enough effort at retaining the quality talent out there and is forcing quality interns to pursue something else to put food in their stomachs...
What?? from what I see, a lot of 25 - 35 year olds are the ones making things happen not just with the latest technology(Revit,Rhino,Grasshopper and other generative systems) but with a fluid profussion of great ideas, almost a mental collage where technology, new media, complex communication skills systhesize with architecture).
what motivates you youngin's
the prospect of dying in squalor in the heyday of my 20s beneath a mountain of student loan debt and bad choices. solid motivation!
archie - it's over two years later and a totally different economy/job climate. Care to comment on any changes you've seen from the youngin's
I reread my posts from '07 and largely haven't changed my mind. Upon repeated requests to my employer that I be given more responsibility I was given a pseudo promotion of basically giving me one type of project in one region. Making me a specalist of sorts. Day to day job is no different. Still haven't been included in contract negotiations or management arenas that I'm seeking. (Is that a move to prevent me from going on my own and stealing clients?) I wasn't expecting to be promoted to principal, but clearly nobody in their early 30's is being given much more than Project Architect responsibility, even when asked. A recent example is one project has a site observation due. I've continually asked to do the visit. To date I have over 10 years experience and am confident I can handle a routine site observation. Instead someone with "more experience" is sent...someone not familiar with the project, and I'm kept at my desk. Like I said way way up thread two years back - how long do I have to wait??? A great motivator would be to at least give me a taste. I've clearly stated my intentions of wanting more management roles, more upper level client contact, more field contact and less sitting behind a computer screen. I would think in 10 years I would be seeing some progress towards where I want to be. From where I sit today I can't say I've seen much. Now the economy as it is has put those goals on the back burner, and keeping a job on the front. Still, someday the older generation will have to turn this profession over to my generation. If someone in his mid-30's isn't given proper experience now, how am I to handle the job in the future?
One more note. I had a boss that used to talk about how he was promoted to partner before he was 40 years of age. Is that happening to anyone this day and age? I would absolutely love opportunity like that. Instead (where I'm at) management is hired from outside. How does that help motivation?
Hi aquapura;
Sounds like you are in the wrong firm. I have no idea why a firm would not give a willing and capable young architect more responsibility. I don't know what to tell you but keep asking. In my firm, we will let anyone go to a site meeting if they want to learn what happens there. Have you tried asking to tag along if they think you can't handle it on your own? If they say no, offer to do it on your own time. (work late to make up the time. ) or ask them how the heck you are supposed to learn if they won't let you go??? I am baffled. Your experience is so different than mine. We offer to let interns go to job meetings, even if they had nothing to do with the job, and pay them for it up to an hour a month. Yet I have only had one intern ask in a year. Maybe it is because they are getting enough experience with their current responsibilities, I don't know. I know now is not a good time to look, but when the economy turns around, other employers will be looking for someone like you.
So two years later, things have changed, but mostly with me. I kept hiring and got rid of some non performers, which shook up a few people. I got a little meaner, and instead of always covering for people and being mad about it, I have taken a couple of people aside and pretty much laid down the law with them. So I guess I am not as nice of a boss, but I am happier about the work we produce. I got better at hiring. The last three of four hires have been wonderful, exceeded my expectations. The fourth we got rid of after 3 months because she could not meet our quality standards. Fortunately for us the market was such that we could replace her. As for a few of the people who have been on the edge, they have stepped up for the most part. Two of them are almost licensed, and they have been taking on more responsibility. Not perfect, but getting closer.
I do still think there is a generational difference but maybe it has more to do with upbringing than an age thing. Many architects of my age grew up in blue color families, and our expectations of how we would be treated in the work place are different. Our expectations of how hard we would have to work were different. Our expectations of how we would live, and how much money we would have to spend were different. If you wanted to get ahead, you had to work hard in school, work to put yourself thru college, and fight for a job. A whole family had one used car, you brought your bag lunch to work, the kids all had hand me down clothes, you saved money to cover expenses and did not use credit cards. Things are different now. OR WERE different. Maybe the current economy will put us on a different track.
I know right now, every one of my employees is glad to have a job, glad we are still paying all the benefits, glad they got bonuses at the end of the year. All of them have friends who have been laid off or have had pay cuts. We gave everyone a talk a month ago reviewing our plan for surviving this year and most of them seemed pretty happy and relieved.
i feel, it is elders responsibility and interest to keep the younger people motivated as well as finding the motivated ones and give them the opportunity.
i don't believe keeping someone for a long time with whom you have to use a wrench to get something out. fire them's ass and maybe they'll be motivated next time.
2 cents worth.
01/02/07 13:27
two years ago in my only post in here i said this and still valid. but i don't think anybody who has a project right now has to worry about geting people motivated. mdler said, it was $$$$. pure survival money...
We are in talks with two people now who are under 30 about partnership, and both my partner and I were partners in other firms before 40. I think we were 33 and 35. It is very possible.
archie - couple things to note, these site observations are in a different state requiring significant travel expenses. "Tagging along" isn't an economical option, especially these days. That said, I still think I'm more than qualified to handle it. Also, I'm working in a large corporate firm. Partly out of motivation to work on larger more complex projects and partly for the pay and benefits it has awarded me. I'm doing better than all my friends working in smaller firms. Still, I don't think that should make a difference in prospects for advancement. As you're well aware, most of my co-workers have no desire for any added responsibility. I'm fine with that as many of them are excellent detail oriented people. I just desire to be their boss someday. How long my patience holds out is another matter.
Its neat this thread got bumped because in the two years I've had three jobs in the industry and can make a more informed post.
I'm 23 now and I'm currently working part-time for a small, mostly res. interiors firm in NYC and I can say that money is single-handedly one of the biggest motivators out there. My current boss offered me an ungodly salary for a part-time intern when I started and went full time in the summer. I have never worked harder in my life than I did in summer '08 for anybody and it paid off. We're only a 4 person firm (2 drafters/pm's, 1 sec and 1 arch) and when the other drafter left to go back to school I was pretty much put in charge of our projects, with my boss of course. The results, for someone so green were mixed, but the added responsibility and the high pay made a world of difference. Also, my boss micro-manages alot and when you're green that's really helpful. One of the things the net-generation needs is constant feedback, which is something many gen-x and baby boomer bosses don't give. I volunteered to go to client meetings and worked many, many Saturdays (and I think even a Sunday). Another thing that's helpful, for me at least, is information. If i'm supposed to help out with a project I like to be informed about all its aspects so I can offer the most help and it also makes me feel apart of the job and not just some CAD monkey, this includes discussions of client psychology (very important) and the projects financial status. My boss can be a real ball-breaker and the stress really did wear in after three months but seeing a bonus check (i thought it was a payroll glitch at first), as an intern, for a relatively large amount, made me feel like my boss really did care about all that effort I put in. It made all those long nights and weekends seem worthwhile and more importantly it meant all the ball-busting wasn't really reflected on me as a person but rather it was his own way of trying to improve the caliber of work.
One of the biggest de-motivators however, is having to detail/design really bad ideas that usually come from clients and can't be avoided. For example, if your client base has tastes similar to that of your employees they'll have more fun doing the CAD/detail work. However if you've got a bunch of kids who studied in the vein of rigorous modernism and they're asked to detail some garish beaux-arts bedroom it will drain on morale. If your clients are heavy on traditionalism it may help to hire kids out of schools like Notre Dame, U of Miami and other schools that have traditionalist leanings.
pain
Archie:
How much of an active mentor are you to your green employees? My bosses were hostile to breaking down the (at first)seemingly enormous and mysterious process of professional architecture. I was not trained, and made some very big mistakes in projects because of that, of which I still believe it was my bosses responsibility to *help* me see. He did not. It was certainly a wake up call to be pulled off a project I had seen through CDs because of the problematic state things were in, but it was not because I was not motivated enough (I've worked more than my share of overtime, taken care of my office cleanup/organization, answer phones, run copies, etc etc etc).
Money and a threatening economy are big motivators - but I still believe that an active mentor-apprentice relationship is the biggest problem with our profession today. In my opinion it is irresponsible for design employers to remain hands off with green employees. Direct and personal interaction is how you teach (kids) how to work in an office, how to think about drawings, how to pull them apart, put them back together, maintain a proper perspective on time, etc. Its not enough to go pull graphic standards and wonder if the thing you drew even makes sense for the project.
Greenies lack the 'why' which is what seasoned professionals have. Sure, trial by fire works for some things, but you end up with a bunch of interns or full time employees who do stupid things that end up in the hands of contractors/clients/city officials because they don't know about those things holistically.
I suspect there is an age issue which is an issue in American culture. There is also, for some, an issue of vanity which keeps these new hires from active communication because they don't want to look stupid. But they are, we are.
One thing to consider about the "glass ceiling" I'm currently experiencing. In the few offices I've worked in the primary age of the management (principals/partners) has been mid to late 50's. Boomers of the 1950's era. Seems largely those born in the 60's haven't had the problem of being tagged "youngster's" but people like me born in the 1970's have always been looked down upon. Is it a negativity that boomers see in the Gen X stigma? Clearly the children of the 80's (Gen Y) are the newbies in the profession these days, yet I still don't feel fully respected as someone who is well beyond the "wet behind the ears" days.
Aquapura, maybe part of the problem is your boomers are not yet ready to give up the reins. If they are in their mid 50's, they might be thinking they want to stick around for another 10 to 15 years. Maybe longer with this economy and the shape their 401k's are in. One of the mistakes in their thinking is that it takes about 10 years for a good ownership transition to happen in an architectural firm.
Have they ever had a discussion about ownership transistion?
Do they have a plan for ownership transition? Perhaps they are looking at bringing on 40 year olds and think you are too young. In an ideal world they would be thinking of building a tier of leaders who are now in their 40's, one tier in their 30's, and even starting to identify those in their 20's who would be on a leadership track
here is another idea- (I am assuming there is a middle management level in your firm) find someone who has started to break thru the glass ceiling, even if it is someone a bit older than you, and pick their brains about how they did it in your firm. See if they will mentor you and try to be your advocate for getting more responsibility. Just be aware that in some very corporate firms, there is a lot of juggling for position, and it might be difficult to find someone who is not afraid of having you take over some of their 'status'.
heck we got people in their 80s working at my office
Archie,
The first thing you need to realize about most young aspiring architects is that they are woefully unprepared to competently complete almost any task in the real world immediately upon graduation. In my opinion, architecture schools do a very disappointing job in educating students on building science and technology. And what's the first task you hand an intern? Developing construction details! When pretty much all they've covered in school is design theory. Essentially, the first thing they're told is that they don't know jack! Don't get me wrong, the recent grad needs to know how to put a set of construction documents together. That's just an example. But the initial mindset of most young architects if they are honest with themselves is that they have no idea what they're doing. Can you see why they'd be hesitant? They need to be shown the right way to do things in every phase of a project. That means no pigeon-holing but providing a well-rounded experience. That means holding their hand initially. That means really truly mentoring. A hit to the bottom line in the short run pays off umpteen times in the long run. They've been called "interns" because they're supposed to be receiving training. Do you work on projects along side them or do you just throw a pile of drawings in their lap and tell them to get it done? Do you explain to them why you have to revise their drawings or does it go unmentioned? Do you let them shadow you in and out of the office or do you make them sit in a chair and stare blearily into a computer screen all day, every day? Do you give them design freedom and really let them contribute or are their designs just a regurgitation of your own? You can't learn from your mistakes if you don't know why it was a mistake. You could have the fastest sprint time in the world, but it is hard to run for your medal when no one told you where the finish line is. Young architects need and often seem to be lacking both direction AND opportunity. It seems like you are providing some opportunity so kudos for that. That's more than I can say for a lot of firms. But as for all the trial by fire talk, what firm do you know that is really going to expose their client to the risk? I've seen a lot of intelligent people with great ideas get a bad rap in this biz simply because they weren't provided or directed to the right resources to do the job properly and stigmatized for it ever after.
beekay - better than any response I could post. Going to save your words for later use.
I think is where you live. When I was in LA it was pretty slack. In NYC it is hardcore
beekay - very intellegent comment. While I do agree with your comments about employers needing to be involved in the training of young architects I do think you hint upon the greater problem.
Architecture education is woefully preparing graduates for the "real" world of working in an architecture firm. If CD's are upwards of 50% of the work we do why aren't graduates skilled in knowing how to put together a set of working drawings? Why aren't they skilled in basic materials & methods? There are two year associate degree programs that do a better job at this than professional BArch & MArch programs.
Why is it the employer's job to teach the realities of this profession??? Quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of colleges hiding behind the veil of architecture being a "design" degree when it's much much more multi-faceted than that.
If Architecture graduates could start working more independantly from day one this would only benefit the profitiability of firms, which in turn would benefit intern pay and so on. We all like to tout the diversity of our degrees, yet I'm a strong advocate for making the architecture degree less of a liberal arts education and a much more technical in nature. I believe the benefits for the traditional work of architecture would be profound.
you can't move up in the same way that the older generation did. It's a lot harder, way more complicated in terms of skill sets, and since the older generation seems to feel a little left in the dust technologically, they often forget that there are some more valuable management skills that they should be imparting instead of trying to keep up with the tools. I think lack of motivation is just a symptom of this disconnect between generations - for example - it's tough staying motivated when you feel like you are the one doing all the work, and your boss does not understand what it takes to do this work. young people feel like they are getting taken advantage of because there is no shared responsibility.
One way of combatting this is to simply show your younger staff that you are also working hard by allowing them to participate in management tasks. If they can see that what you are doing is valuable to moving the project forward, they'll be more motivated to ramp up their efforts. However - the best way to keep someone motivated is if you can do the same things they are doing because it's easier for them to identify that you are putting in the same effort they are.
Those are good points toasteroven. We do have a divide in our generations due to technology that did not exist as strongly when I was young. The biggest technology leap I made was trying to get my first boss to let me use rapidigraph pens for inking on linen instead of using the ancient ruling pen that you filled with ink from an eye dropper every line or two. (I kid you not!!!)
The lack of respect goes both ways. I see it on this forum that the youngsters diss the oldsters because they cannot use CAD, or don't understand shortcuts, etc. Then some older folks try to keep the youngins from moving ahead because they want to keep them drafting to make up for their lack of ability, and this is not fair. It is a problem. In the old days, we could all hit the boards and draw, but that is no longer the case.
Hopefully that split will go away in a few year when it is a rare architect who does not have basic computer drafting skills, and has not experienced first hand what it takes to create drawings on cad. In the meantime, your suggestion to let them see the management end of a project is a good suggestion for all parties .
it's hard to stay motivated when you did work the long hours, take responsibility, demonstrated you cared, asked questions and was still laid off and now no one will pay attention to your resume or call you to schedule an interview. the profession isn't making a good enough effort at retaining the quality talent out there and is forcing quality interns to pursue something else to put food in their stomachs...
What?? from what I see, a lot of 25 - 35 year olds are the ones making things happen not just with the latest technology(Revit,Rhino,Grasshopper and other generative systems) but with a fluid profussion of great ideas, almost a mental collage where technology, new media, complex communication skills systhesize with architecture).
take a look at who REM has in his studio, or B.I.G. it's the 25-35 year olds with 1 -5 years experience making it happen.
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