how's this for depressing though...
construction company
independent contract full time
$45/ hr...then to go to arachitecture making less than half that...downhill slide
New York City
Intern - 4 months and counting
About 60 people toiling under 1 Starchitect
High Profile Commercial and Industrial
25 hours a week
Pay rate: $0000 - I'm supposed to get by on 'perks' and be happy with that. They include a monthly Metro Card, fancy lunches, expenses for exciting supplies like pens and protractors. Also free lip balm to mt lips don't get too chapped from all the ass-kissing.
But also Eternal, one's gotta admit, making money is a necessity ( we're literally "making a living" from working). I'm not disagreeing with you, no one should do it for the money only, but survival matters too. I'm glad I'm not alone, I enjoy making architecture, and I want to make enough to at least...gulp...survive.
Sydney
5 people
6 month internship
everything from dubai masterplans(and yes i said 5 people(?)) to 10 million dollar homes
$17.50
very relaxed job, almost no overtime, but not my most fulfilling time... but what is unless you work for yourself ...i'm going back part-time till i finish uni-2 more yrs.
omg, this is shocking. i made more than that as an undergrad intern like 8 years ago. what is wrong with the economy???? you guys should all be making at least 18 an hour if you have a professional degree... are there drafting temp agencies you can work for?? jeez, how do you live?! maybe you should just do office temp work, even that pays like 14 or 15 an hour just to answer phones and type things into excel boxes. wow.
they are interns, myriam. I'm not in any way suggesting that they are getting paid well, but that's how this industry works.
I thought that the minimum wage was like $5.50 twenty years ago, and they just raised it to $7.50 or so. Don't worry; those interns will make big money once they finish their school... or maybe not.
Quite depressing when students are working for free. Even though you don't yet have the degree, your skills are still worth something.
As a student intern (before BArch) I was getting $15/hr + OT back in summer 2000/2001. Went full time in fall of 2001 at $14.90/hr and lost OT but gained health benefits and profit sharing/401k.
This was at a mid-sized firm doing schools and churches. Hardly the best paying clients in this business.
Point is, when you work for free all you are doing is perpetuating the problem, while the managers at the firm fatten their pockets off your slave labor.
We do a whole year internship after our first three years of uni before going back for our final two.
large and varied office
c. $39,500 p/a + occasional overtime
It may sound like a lot but the exchange rate is very favorable and rent in london is exorbitant.
I did think you probably had it better in the States though
I wonder why they would pay meta $25/hr to draft when from the looks of this survey they can find plenty of interns to work for much less than that, if not for free. Problem is, if you start out working for free or for very little they aren't going to bump your salary way up when you graduate and go full time. The key is to find a firm that overestimates you and pays accordingly to start with and then just try not to get fired before you start moving up in the firm, thats my goal.
New York City
Internship
~10 people in this office but main office is bigger
Starchitect
$1k/month
~6 months
Current non-arch undergrad, i thought this was pretty good, even though I work an average of 13 hours a day, which works out to something like pennies per hour, I'm just glad its paid at all.
Now, take in the context of that lovely summary that metamechanic just provided us, that the summer before my fourth year of undergrad, I was making $8/hr, as an independent contractor. I found out come tax time, I got hosed. I knew I was getting hosed from the start, I just didn't realize how much. The next summer, I went to work for a contractor that paid me $14/hr (as a real employee, so better for taxes), plus a $4k scholarship, plus a small bonus at the end of the year. So, all told, I more than doubled my pay by switching to construction.
Philadelphia, PA
Internship, summer and holidays
75 person firm
commercial/retail
$12.50. Free lunches every once in a while, fun people to work with, relaxed atmosphere. No overtime.
post BFA, pre-M.Arch I job
large corporate healthcare/academic firm
I'm in the marketing department (graphics background)
$17.50/hr
OT, health/dental, 401k, bonuses
It is my first office job out of ART SCHOOL, and ironically, it's quite a feat to be earning that much for a " starving artist", and in 4 years when I get my supposedly much more useful "professional degree", I can expect to earn the same, if not less. Is that how it works?
I might be idealistic, but I am not sure why architects under value themselves. We have been ingrained with the idea not to expect to get paid a reasonable amount. Is there another profession that feels like they should not get paid for the work they do? Is it the romantic idea that one must suffer for their art? Or is it just self-loathing? In the most basic sense, architects provide a service that everyone needs and uses, shelter. (I know that the argument can be made that architects design a small precentage of the buildings built.)
I feel like something has to change. If we don't give value to ourselves as a profession, why should anyone value the service we provide?
This thread has me frightened like things are getting worse for us, not better, when it comes to wages. I went to a tiny mid-western state school in a smaller sized city where student interns were earning over $10/hour. And this was over 6 years ago! Students are accepting this in places like NYC in 2007?!?! I already stated what I made as a student intern over the summers. (And as a student I wasn't doing big box or proto design, it was custom, some published work.)
As I say time and time again, accepting low wages is only perpetuating the problem. When you accept some crap $1k/month wage you are in effect telling the profession you are only worth that.
It doesn't matter if you are only a student working part time. When you work for almost nothing as a student you'll see a poor wage after graduation as good and thus keep the snowball effect of poor wages going.
There are good firms out there that pay fair wages and provide excellent training and experience. Find those, I beg you.
i dunno, in my opinion as long as the internship experience is good (meaning I learn a lot and meet great people) i don't mind that much if they pay me kinda low.
In addition, i would expect to get paid more when i turn into a full time employee.
Please keep in-mind that this poll is for STUDENT salaries
Northern NJ
Internship - 1 year
14 person office
Corporate / Healthcare
$14/ hr
An internship is only what you make of it. If you just sit there and do your work on CAD all day, all you're going to be is a cad monkey and you will never get all of your hours for IDP. Be persistent and make the effort to be involved in every aspect of design, because even things like looking up faucets or copying over hardware schedules for the project architect will start to break away at those 700 units.
Newton Centre, MA
Summer co-op (after 3rd year of BArch, May-Aug 2006)
4 people (including myself)
Mostly upscale, contemporary residential, detail oriented
$12/hr
Manchester, NH
Summer internship (after 2nd year of BArch, May-Aug 2005)
8 people (including myself)
Mostly municipal projects (libraries, schools, public safety...) with some residential and commercial, mostly non-descript with occasional stand-out projects... despite sometimes banal work, they architects there were very interested in educating me about professional work, etc.
$7.50/hr + very handsome end-of-summer bonus
Student Job Salary Poll (Interships, Co-ops, Part-time)
Only post recent jobs as things change quickly.
Location
Situation (internship, co-op, partime, etc; how long)
Size of firm
Type of firm
Pay rate
Chicago
3 month co-op (with Barch)
12 architects
high end residential
$13.50 an hour
Cincinnati
2 3 month co-ops (while completing Barch)
40 person staff
schools, municipal bldgs
$12.00 an hour
atlanta
intern
3-4 people
boutique
17 hr
New York
Internship 1 month
Full Time
2 people
boutique
1K Stipend
New York
Part Time
Internship 3 months
2-4 People
boutique
Pay: N/A
new york city
intern, one month
4 people
boutique
unpaid
london, uk
intern, three months
50 people
hotels/housing
equiv. $19/hr
los angeles
intern, one month
2 people
small residential
$10
los angeles
intern, three months
150 people
large corporate
$15
germany
intern, year
15 people
ecofriendly boutique
c. $700/mo.
Atlanta
Co-op, 3mo/of 2yr. stint while in school
corporate
80 people
tuition paid by firm
$12.5 in school/ $20 summers and breaks
i'd like to be the first to say that this is depressing and generally an f-d up thread.
my high school drop out friend is making more money washing cars for washman corp., when not snowboarding 4 days a week.
at least the one guy is making $20 an hour. you can almost pay rent with that.
Dallas
Co-op-6 months
corporate
125 people
$21/hr
how's this for depressing though...
construction company
independent contract full time
$45/ hr...then to go to arachitecture making less than half that...downhill slide
New York City
Intern - 4 months and counting
About 60 people toiling under 1 Starchitect
High Profile Commercial and Industrial
25 hours a week
Pay rate: $0000 - I'm supposed to get by on 'perks' and be happy with that. They include a monthly Metro Card, fancy lunches, expenses for exciting supplies like pens and protractors. Also free lip balm to mt lips don't get too chapped from all the ass-kissing.
mc donalds: all the burgers you can eat!
if all one cares about is money, architecture is not the profession to go into
But also Eternal, one's gotta admit, making money is a necessity ( we're literally "making a living" from working). I'm not disagreeing with you, no one should do it for the money only, but survival matters too. I'm glad I'm not alone, I enjoy making architecture, and I want to make enough to at least...gulp...survive.
Sydney
5 people
6 month internship
everything from dubai masterplans(and yes i said 5 people(?)) to 10 million dollar homes
$17.50
very relaxed job, almost no overtime, but not my most fulfilling time... but what is unless you work for yourself ...i'm going back part-time till i finish uni-2 more yrs.
omg, chaptertwo, you were stiffed.
omg, this is shocking. i made more than that as an undergrad intern like 8 years ago. what is wrong with the economy???? you guys should all be making at least 18 an hour if you have a professional degree... are there drafting temp agencies you can work for?? jeez, how do you live?! maybe you should just do office temp work, even that pays like 14 or 15 an hour just to answer phones and type things into excel boxes. wow.
they are interns, myriam. I'm not in any way suggesting that they are getting paid well, but that's how this industry works.
I thought that the minimum wage was like $5.50 twenty years ago, and they just raised it to $7.50 or so. Don't worry; those interns will make big money once they finish their school... or maybe not.
I mean "student" interns.
Los Angeles
6 month internship (while completing Barch)
20 person staff
high-end residential, commercial
1200$/mo.
NYC
summer internship (while completing undergrad non-arch degree)
200 people
corporate
14$/hr
post 9/11 in philly $12 hr (very small arch firm)
one year later & new job
$14/hr (mid sized arch firm)
final year of grad school
$15/hr (mid sized LA firm)
all of these were better the the highest paid work/study jobat upenn
o.m.g. (oh my god)
hawaii
intern
15 people
residential,historic
$10/hr
brazil
graduate
10 people
residential, commercial
R$ 4 (approximately 1,88 U.S. dollars)/hr
how about that
p.s. i still live w/ my parents
Quite depressing when students are working for free. Even though you don't yet have the degree, your skills are still worth something.
As a student intern (before BArch) I was getting $15/hr + OT back in summer 2000/2001. Went full time in fall of 2001 at $14.90/hr and lost OT but gained health benefits and profit sharing/401k.
This was at a mid-sized firm doing schools and churches. Hardly the best paying clients in this business.
Point is, when you work for free all you are doing is perpetuating the problem, while the managers at the firm fatten their pockets off your slave labor.
kent, oh
2nd year undergrad (partime/whenever they need me)
3 people
residential, some small commercial
$10-$12/hr
Detroit
4th year Barch
CAD Monkey
6 mo. @ position
Corp.
$14/hr. + Bonuses
Great Bennies!
London, United kingdom
We do a whole year internship after our first three years of uni before going back for our final two.
large and varied office
c. $39,500 p/a + occasional overtime
It may sound like a lot but the exchange rate is very favorable and rent in london is exorbitant.
I did think you probably had it better in the States though
manila, philippines
6 people
summer intern (didnt last for the whole 2 months tho)
$2/day.
great. i know.
I wonder why they would pay meta $25/hr to draft when from the looks of this survey they can find plenty of interns to work for much less than that, if not for free. Problem is, if you start out working for free or for very little they aren't going to bump your salary way up when you graduate and go full time. The key is to find a firm that overestimates you and pays accordingly to start with and then just try not to get fired before you start moving up in the firm, thats my goal.
NYC
2 yrs. 8-10 hrs. a week during undergrad
from 8-13 ppl by the end
boutique
$10 - 12/hr.
Paris, France
Intern
10-11 people
residential, commercial
€ 700/month
3 months
Innsbruck, Austria
Part-time
4-5 ppl
conceptual to residential to
exhibitions; many competitions
€ 9.5/hr.
Current internship
New York City
Internship
~10 people in this office but main office is bigger
Starchitect
$1k/month
~6 months
Current non-arch undergrad, i thought this was pretty good, even though I work an average of 13 hours a day, which works out to something like pennies per hour, I'm just glad its paid at all.
meta, was that internship w. mathias sauerbruch?
This is why I am working full time at my IT job while I am getting my M.Arch. So I can keep my house.
I agree precisely with aquapura and have had similar experiences. This thread is scary, I'm afraid for you guys.
Now, take in the context of that lovely summary that metamechanic just provided us, that the summer before my fourth year of undergrad, I was making $8/hr, as an independent contractor. I found out come tax time, I got hosed. I knew I was getting hosed from the start, I just didn't realize how much. The next summer, I went to work for a contractor that paid me $14/hr (as a real employee, so better for taxes), plus a $4k scholarship, plus a small bonus at the end of the year. So, all told, I more than doubled my pay by switching to construction.
I love Architecture, but sometimes I really despise the profession.
Philadelphia, PA
Internship, summer and holidays
75 person firm
commercial/retail
$12.50. Free lunches every once in a while, fun people to work with, relaxed atmosphere. No overtime.
post BFA, pre-M.Arch I job
large corporate healthcare/academic firm
I'm in the marketing department (graphics background)
$17.50/hr
OT, health/dental, 401k, bonuses
It is my first office job out of ART SCHOOL, and ironically, it's quite a feat to be earning that much for a " starving artist", and in 4 years when I get my supposedly much more useful "professional degree", I can expect to earn the same, if not less. Is that how it works?
Yup, pretty much.
both last august:
somerville, ma
contractor
master planning (universities) - this was a planning job, not an architecture job
1 person
$20/hr
cambridge, ma
intern (modelmaking)
residential/cultural
4 people
$14.50/hr
post-SB, mid-MCP, pre-M.Arch I
I might be idealistic, but I am not sure why architects under value themselves. We have been ingrained with the idea not to expect to get paid a reasonable amount. Is there another profession that feels like they should not get paid for the work they do? Is it the romantic idea that one must suffer for their art? Or is it just self-loathing? In the most basic sense, architects provide a service that everyone needs and uses, shelter. (I know that the argument can be made that architects design a small precentage of the buildings built.)
I feel like something has to change. If we don't give value to ourselves as a profession, why should anyone value the service we provide?
This thread has me frightened like things are getting worse for us, not better, when it comes to wages. I went to a tiny mid-western state school in a smaller sized city where student interns were earning over $10/hour. And this was over 6 years ago! Students are accepting this in places like NYC in 2007?!?! I already stated what I made as a student intern over the summers. (And as a student I wasn't doing big box or proto design, it was custom, some published work.)
As I say time and time again, accepting low wages is only perpetuating the problem. When you accept some crap $1k/month wage you are in effect telling the profession you are only worth that.
It doesn't matter if you are only a student working part time. When you work for almost nothing as a student you'll see a poor wage after graduation as good and thus keep the snowball effect of poor wages going.
There are good firms out there that pay fair wages and provide excellent training and experience. Find those, I beg you.
Is it just me or do engineers value interns much more than architects value their interns? Thats frustrating.
i dunno, in my opinion as long as the internship experience is good (meaning I learn a lot and meet great people) i don't mind that much if they pay me kinda low.
In addition, i would expect to get paid more when i turn into a full time employee.
Please keep in-mind that this poll is for STUDENT salaries
Northern NJ
Internship - 1 year
14 person office
Corporate / Healthcare
$14/ hr
An internship is only what you make of it. If you just sit there and do your work on CAD all day, all you're going to be is a cad monkey and you will never get all of your hours for IDP. Be persistent and make the effort to be involved in every aspect of design, because even things like looking up faucets or copying over hardware schedules for the project architect will start to break away at those 700 units.
Newton Centre, MA
Summer co-op (after 3rd year of BArch, May-Aug 2006)
4 people (including myself)
Mostly upscale, contemporary residential, detail oriented
$12/hr
Manchester, NH
Summer internship (after 2nd year of BArch, May-Aug 2005)
8 people (including myself)
Mostly municipal projects (libraries, schools, public safety...) with some residential and commercial, mostly non-descript with occasional stand-out projects... despite sometimes banal work, they architects there were very interested in educating me about professional work, etc.
$7.50/hr + very handsome end-of-summer bonus
philadelphia, pa
large corporate / healthcare firm
intern (2 summers)
$15/hr
NYC
summer intern (2nd year M.Arch 1)
Corporate
intern
$15/hr plus over time and free food
panera boxed lunches are pretty good.
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