For the past few years I have been using CAD modeling as a tool for composing and visualizing sculpture. I am currently interested in studying generative design and scripting as a creative tool for developing composition and form. Although I see great possibilities for this approach in the sculpture studio, it seems that scripting as a form-finding tool is being developed primarily within the field of Architecture. Aside from these studies, I would also like to become proficient in the use of CNC and rapid prototyping technologies.
My goal is to learn these techniques so that I may integrate them into our Fine Arts curriculum and into my own studio practice. I will be taking a one-year leave to study these subjects in depth. I hold an MFA in ceramic art, but no degrees in Architecture.
I am very interested in studying these subjects either as a visiting scholar, special student or in some other capacity. Ohio State has a one-year Master of Architectural Studies in Digital Fabrication, which seems to offer exactly what I'm looking for. Arizona State has also shown interest. I am hoping to get a few more options before deciding.
These are the other schools I have contacted so far…
U. Of Texas
Sci-Arch
Harvard
Columbia
U. Of Pennsylvania
Rice
Cornell
AA (London)
MIT
Ohio State
None of these seem very interested in teaching people outside of their Architecture programs (I guess I don't blame them).
Can someone suggest any other school or program where I can study these subjects (particularly scripting and generative design) in more detail?
Maybe you should check out SmartGeometry. I think they're pretty engineering/architecture oriented, but someone might be receptive to your needs, or at least could give you some more suitable contacts. They're also having a conference/training seminar early 2007.
If you are froma fine arts backgroundyou might want to consider the either architecture or art & tech department at the school of the art institute . Both programs have an MFA track, and they have been known to give advanced placement for individuals arriving with an advanced degree. The designed objects program might be simmilarly of interest.
geimanj: I had previously seen that link to SmartGeometry but I thought it was just a marketing ploy by Bently systems. Is their sofware the only one used or does it vary from year to year? Seems like its being used exclusively. Also, it seems a little short (workshop fromat) but iot also mentions some past summer sessions which mayu be long enoug to actualy become confortable.
mespellrong: I didn't know SAIC even offered architecture (this is apparently the first year they offer graduate studies in this field). Looks like a dynamic program with a great range of subjects offered. I have sent them my request.
You may want to check out the program I am currently in. The Product Architecture Lab at Stevens Institute of Technology. The program is heavily involved with scripting and algorithmin techniques for problem solving and rule based form finding. We dont really encourage a form for form's sake approach that some other schools seem to embrace. ( I am not trying to dog the othere schools)
The Product Architecture Lab is a failry young program that has seen a grea amount of success.
The website is currently dbeing re-done professionally, but here is the link if you are interested.
Additionally, we have a diverse group of students including, fine arts graduates, computer science, mathemeticians, architects, civil/mechanical/structural/aerospace engineers.
monkey is right, i went to a review of one of Nastasi's classes and was blown away by the diversity of experience, and the potential for design - even beyond architecture. there are some really good eggs there, although there are some there that are not design inclined, but have such amazing things to bring to the table, they just need to slow down and quit rushing to "create" what we think is architecture, and let the architecture flow from there process...it really is amazing.
I was almost afraid to ask this type of question as I have looked at some previous threads and things seemed to get pretty heated with the whole “to script or not to script” debate. I’m glad you’ve gone easy on me so far…
monkeyboy: congrats on getting into Stevens! I had read your thread. Never heard of Stevens before but it looks like pretty cutting edge and the fact they seem to have people from different professions is a bonus. I will contact Nastasi.
paperm8pip: I spoke with someone at Sci-Arch today. They said it’s very competitive to get into their generative design/scripting classes, even for their diploma-stream students. It would be next to impossible for someone like me coming in from the outside (not in their degree program). Beyond that, this is not something that is always offered, meaning it is more of a special topics/seminar class. Strange, because if there were so much demand, I'd think they would make it more available.
Urbanist: I contacted Mr. Sass a while back. He didn't seem very excited about the whole scripting thing. He thought it was too programming based, and the rewards were not great enough to justify it. But he didn't discourage me from applying to their program. I haven’t ruled them out but it didn’t sound encouraging. Is there someone else there I should contact that is a proponent for scripting?
Check out Axel Killian's work. He is getting his phd at MIT and teaching course as well i think. Scripting/algorithmic processes are used heavily in his work.
I share your interest and plight, I have dabbled in scripting a bit...I am actually trying to get into Grad school these days so I can jump through hoops and be a professional one day...but in my "free time"( 30 minutes a month LOL), I have found a scripting tutor...may not sound like fun to most people....but the whole reason I like Architecture is for the emergence of Generative forms.....If they had a school or program that taught only Scripting and Generative systems...then I wouldn't mess around so much I bet. also ...I like this website http://www.dextro.org/
p.s. I find it hard to believe those Texas schools are into it...? I am so snobbish I guess.
I thought degenerative would be part of a generative process.
I googled "degenerative architecture" but only got medical references.
Human Primitives? Like neanderthals? Are you refering to the process through which we evolve as a species? Or is this some sort of obscure geometric class?
Any links, books or other info would be appreciated.
Studies on the topographic architecture of the annulus fibrosus in developmental and degenerative processes in the lumbar intervertebral disc in man
Architecture of the annulus fibrosus of the lumbar intervertebral disc in 49 human cadavers (30 fetuses and 19 adults) was observed topographically by polarized light microscopy to investigate the developmental process and the degenerative changes. At the 6th month of fetal life, the anterior annulus fibrosus presented a regular lamellar structure, while the posterior annulus fibrosus presented an irregular reticular structure. Difference of the interstriation angles of collagen fibers in the lamellae between the anterior and posterior annulus fibrosus was identified, and rather smaller angles were found in the anterior than in the posterior. At the 40's years of life collagen fibers in the lamellae showed loosening, separation and a cyst-like cavity, which finally developed into an annular tear. These degenerative changes observed predominantly in the posterior annulus fibrosus suggest that the posterior annulus fibrosus has structural and developmental instability against mechanical stress.
Don't be discouraged. Maybe dammson's intentions are good. Or maybe were just not smart enough to be "....one step ahead of the trend".
Don't let it get to you. Just keep asking questions. That's the only way to really learn.
dammson: thanks for the link and all. I'm not concerned with being trendy, if thats what you thought. If you suggested it as a design strategy, I think the processes that article discusses are already being used within generative design.
I had Kostas two years ago in his Algorithmic Architecture class. It was great! He had us do a competition for a skyscraper using code and manual processes. One pdf files is still there.
Very interesting discussion - I am quite intrigued with the reuse of Algorithmic design in architecture! It's about time the disciple utilizes some of the computer science /computing architecture / software engineering (SWE) design methodologies! Just kidding. Actually, interestingly enough, many of the computing industry folks refer to [building] architecture during a design process (e.g. you need to know what the house looks like before you go off and start building the darn thing). Believe it or not, computing folks are not as disciplined [nor are they forced to] describing or defining an architecture before building said structure. Well, I take that back - it really depends on the level of system/software criticality – if you are building something for NASA it has to meet a certain set of guidelines and methodologies; on the other hand a non-critical application will not require such rigidness. But the point I am trying to make is that the computing industry should build a blueprint regardless of its structure or criticality and it is a good thing that [building] Architecture methodologies are discussed on numerous levels in the computing industry.
…and it is this overlap between the two disciplines (e.g. design, methodologies and patterns) for which I am drawn to both. I'll have to do a bit of reading to understand how algorithms are used in [building] Architecture and how an Architect might utilize this methodology, but it looks like good reading none the less.
You are too funny! Sure, but it would only be ethical for me to reduce the number of your work hours - which isn't a bad thing - at least it would look like you got something done this week! Zing! :)
I really like to research scenarios so I contacted the most successful scandalous individual I know and this is what he said, "If you are going to complicate yourself in illicit activities, the rule of thumb is make sure you have no loose ends to tie up". Moral of story: Don't get involved in any wet work; however, my friend was asking if there was any work available?
if u get interested in the Smart Geometry group take in consideration they work closely enough to the people at the Em Tech at the AA (Emergent Technologies @ the Architectural Association, London), if ur not interested in getting the degree of post-arch studies then u might wanna talk them into doing a semester or year at the "undergrad" Diploma 4 studio of Michael Hensel (from the EmTech), also u could check out the new book that went out couple of months ago from AA publication (Hensel+Mengues) "MORPHO-ECOLOGIES", and last but no least u could check out Neri Oxman's work (currently in the PhD program at the MIT, but close collaborator of the EmTech and Hansel+Mengues 'gang'): http://www.materialecology.com/
anyways can't think of better or closer aproaches to what ur looking for....
good luck...
P.S. Smart Geometry give workshops, but i dont think they have any kind of training for professionals or ppl interested while this workshops are not currently happening, there was one in NY around theses days, isn't??
Thanks for the link MAD,..this thread is not so degenerate afterall, except for that timesheet hacking tips..:-)
Question:
It seems alot of schools have something in the way of "digital" pedagogies and methods. Perhaps to keep up?!
I am applying to all those darn Ivies right now, ..I feel it is a crap shoot for me...but If I do make it in somewhere ,somehow...Are there schools I should consider NOT going to ....If I , indeed, want to explore all these themes in this thread... For instance, you don;t have to tell me I'll find it at Columbia r Upenn, but do any of you think I should FORGO acceptance at any of these school, because they won't satiate my urge to "be digital" .
{I mean I gotta get a degree some day....because I can't find any jobs that read something like "Digital Morphologists - no experince or degree necessary"}
I will once again shamelessly plug the program I am in here at Stevens Institute of Technology. Our program is very involved with "digital pedagagies" and it seems much of our curriculum is becoming more and more focused on algorithmic techniques to aide in design.
A former student of our program and now hotshot at Gehry Tech's NYC office teaches advanced scripting courses in our program... The guy is a genius. And this past semester we had Chris Lasch of ArandaLasch/TerraSwarm ( http://www.terraswarm.com/ and authors of Tooling) for another great course primarily in RhinoScripting. Both of them plan on continuing teaching in our program.
Things are going great. Finally got my website up to presenting condition so I hope to start getting some interviews over break.
Dont know if i will make Smart Geom. or not. I actually heard yesterday.. I submitted with a fellow student and i got put on the wait list and while i am pretty sure my partner was accepted. I wonder what their criteria was since our apps were pretty much identical (showed the same work and text was similar) From what i hear they had a pretty large response. There were i think 4 apps from our program (2 two person teams) and i think one from each team got accepted. Too bad, I am not sure if its worth paying the 1500 for the workshop fee anyway. Guess i have to learn it the hard way.
Places to study scripting/generative design
Hi Everyone,
For the past few years I have been using CAD modeling as a tool for composing and visualizing sculpture. I am currently interested in studying generative design and scripting as a creative tool for developing composition and form. Although I see great possibilities for this approach in the sculpture studio, it seems that scripting as a form-finding tool is being developed primarily within the field of Architecture. Aside from these studies, I would also like to become proficient in the use of CNC and rapid prototyping technologies.
My goal is to learn these techniques so that I may integrate them into our Fine Arts curriculum and into my own studio practice. I will be taking a one-year leave to study these subjects in depth. I hold an MFA in ceramic art, but no degrees in Architecture.
I am very interested in studying these subjects either as a visiting scholar, special student or in some other capacity. Ohio State has a one-year Master of Architectural Studies in Digital Fabrication, which seems to offer exactly what I'm looking for. Arizona State has also shown interest. I am hoping to get a few more options before deciding.
These are the other schools I have contacted so far…
U. Of Texas
Sci-Arch
Harvard
Columbia
U. Of Pennsylvania
Rice
Cornell
AA (London)
MIT
Ohio State
None of these seem very interested in teaching people outside of their Architecture programs (I guess I don't blame them).
Can someone suggest any other school or program where I can study these subjects (particularly scripting and generative design) in more detail?
Thanks in advance,
Carlo
Maybe you should check out SmartGeometry. I think they're pretty engineering/architecture oriented, but someone might be receptive to your needs, or at least could give you some more suitable contacts. They're also having a conference/training seminar early 2007.
If you are froma fine arts backgroundyou might want to consider the either architecture or art & tech department at the school of the art institute . Both programs have an MFA track, and they have been known to give advanced placement for individuals arriving with an advanced degree. The designed objects program might be simmilarly of interest.
Thanks for the suggestions,
geimanj: I had previously seen that link to SmartGeometry but I thought it was just a marketing ploy by Bently systems. Is their sofware the only one used or does it vary from year to year? Seems like its being used exclusively. Also, it seems a little short (workshop fromat) but iot also mentions some past summer sessions which mayu be long enoug to actualy become confortable.
mespellrong: I didn't know SAIC even offered architecture (this is apparently the first year they offer graduate studies in this field). Looks like a dynamic program with a great range of subjects offered. I have sent them my request.
You may want to check out the program I am currently in. The Product Architecture Lab at Stevens Institute of Technology. The program is heavily involved with scripting and algorithmin techniques for problem solving and rule based form finding. We dont really encourage a form for form's sake approach that some other schools seem to embrace. ( I am not trying to dog the othere schools)
The Product Architecture Lab is a failry young program that has seen a grea amount of success.
The website is currently dbeing re-done professionally, but here is the link if you are interested.
http://www.stevens.edu/engineering/product-architecture/
Additionally, we have a diverse group of students including, fine arts graduates, computer science, mathemeticians, architects, civil/mechanical/structural/aerospace engineers.
monkey is right, i went to a review of one of Nastasi's classes and was blown away by the diversity of experience, and the potential for design - even beyond architecture. there are some really good eggs there, although there are some there that are not design inclined, but have such amazing things to bring to the table, they just need to slow down and quit rushing to "create" what we think is architecture, and let the architecture flow from there process...it really is amazing.
come to sciarc..a lot of projects here have been done with scripting and geneerative design...
Larry Sass does a lot of research in generative design and fabrication of those designs at MIT.
convincing argument...hes right.. go to sciarc
Thanks for the replies,
I was almost afraid to ask this type of question as I have looked at some previous threads and things seemed to get pretty heated with the whole “to script or not to script” debate. I’m glad you’ve gone easy on me so far…
monkeyboy: congrats on getting into Stevens! I had read your thread. Never heard of Stevens before but it looks like pretty cutting edge and the fact they seem to have people from different professions is a bonus. I will contact Nastasi.
paperm8pip: I spoke with someone at Sci-Arch today. They said it’s very competitive to get into their generative design/scripting classes, even for their diploma-stream students. It would be next to impossible for someone like me coming in from the outside (not in their degree program). Beyond that, this is not something that is always offered, meaning it is more of a special topics/seminar class. Strange, because if there were so much demand, I'd think they would make it more available.
Urbanist: I contacted Mr. Sass a while back. He didn't seem very excited about the whole scripting thing. He thought it was too programming based, and the rewards were not great enough to justify it. But he didn't discourage me from applying to their program. I haven’t ruled them out but it didn’t sound encouraging. Is there someone else there I should contact that is a proponent for scripting?
Thanks for the props
Check out Axel Killian's work. He is getting his phd at MIT and teaching course as well i think. Scripting/algorithmic processes are used heavily in his work.
http://destech.mit.edu/akilian/
I share your interest and plight, I have dabbled in scripting a bit...I am actually trying to get into Grad school these days so I can jump through hoops and be a professional one day...but in my "free time"( 30 minutes a month LOL), I have found a scripting tutor...may not sound like fun to most people....but the whole reason I like Architecture is for the emergence of Generative forms.....If they had a school or program that taught only Scripting and Generative systems...then I wouldn't mess around so much I bet. also ...I like this website
http://www.dextro.org/
p.s. I find it hard to believe those Texas schools are into it...? I am so snobbish I guess.
be one step ahead of the trend and study degenerative architecture...based on human primitives...
dammson,
Can you please elaborate a bit?
I thought degenerative would be part of a generative process.
I googled "degenerative architecture" but only got medical references.
Human Primitives? Like neanderthals? Are you refering to the process through which we evolve as a species? Or is this some sort of obscure geometric class?
Any links, books or other info would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Architecture of the annulus fibrosus of the lumbar intervertebral disc in 49 human cadavers (30 fetuses and 19 adults) was observed topographically by polarized light microscopy to investigate the developmental process and the degenerative changes. At the 6th month of fetal life, the anterior annulus fibrosus presented a regular lamellar structure, while the posterior annulus fibrosus presented an irregular reticular structure. Difference of the interstriation angles of collagen fibers in the lamellae between the anterior and posterior annulus fibrosus was identified, and rather smaller angles were found in the anterior than in the posterior. At the 40's years of life collagen fibers in the lamellae showed loosening, separation and a cyst-like cavity, which finally developed into an annular tear. These degenerative changes observed predominantly in the posterior annulus fibrosus suggest that the posterior annulus fibrosus has structural and developmental instability against mechanical stress.
*source http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3746048&dopt=Abstract[/i]
another potential good thread ,..down the tubes.
Formfunction,
Don't be discouraged. Maybe dammson's intentions are good. Or maybe were just not smart enough to be "....one step ahead of the trend".
Don't let it get to you. Just keep asking questions. That's the only way to really learn.
dammson: thanks for the link and all. I'm not concerned with being trendy, if thats what you thought. If you suggested it as a design strategy, I think the processes that article discusses are already being used within generative design.
check out Cranbrook Academy of Art
i'm sorry, damson's comment is bad?
You could do an M.Des at Harvard with a focus on Technology.
IMO Kostas is one of the best on algorithmic architecture
Algorithmic Architecture at Harvard
Please keep the suggestions coming.
Tailor:
I just ordered Kosta's book a few days ago! I'm hoping it will giive me some insight into scripting among other things...
http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/bookaudience.cws_home/705963/description
I had Kostas two years ago in his Algorithmic Architecture class. It was great! He had us do a competition for a skyscraper using code and manual processes. One pdf files is still there.
fractals
Taylor,
That was quite interesting.
Do you have anymore examples?
Cheers,
make
Very interesting discussion - I am quite intrigued with the reuse of Algorithmic design in architecture! It's about time the disciple utilizes some of the computer science /computing architecture / software engineering (SWE) design methodologies! Just kidding. Actually, interestingly enough, many of the computing industry folks refer to [building] architecture during a design process (e.g. you need to know what the house looks like before you go off and start building the darn thing). Believe it or not, computing folks are not as disciplined [nor are they forced to] describing or defining an architecture before building said structure. Well, I take that back - it really depends on the level of system/software criticality – if you are building something for NASA it has to meet a certain set of guidelines and methodologies; on the other hand a non-critical application will not require such rigidness. But the point I am trying to make is that the computing industry should build a blueprint regardless of its structure or criticality and it is a good thing that [building] Architecture methodologies are discussed on numerous levels in the computing industry.
…and it is this overlap between the two disciplines (e.g. design, methodologies and patterns) for which I am drawn to both. I'll have to do a bit of reading to understand how algorithms are used in [building] Architecture and how an Architect might utilize this methodology, but it looks like good reading none the less.
Thanks for the references tailor.
Katze , you know how to hack in to company timesheet websites ?
You are too funny! Sure, but it would only be ethical for me to reduce the number of your work hours - which isn't a bad thing - at least it would look like you got something done this week! Zing! :)
Pls do not ruin my sweet innocent boy image.
Dont worry I just asked you to hack in , I will spare you the remaining dirty work . I have ethics too.
I really like to research scenarios so I contacted the most successful scandalous individual I know and this is what he said, "If you are going to complicate yourself in illicit activities, the rule of thumb is make sure you have no loose ends to tie up". Moral of story: Don't get involved in any wet work; however, my friend was asking if there was any work available?
But its not illicit or illegal ,Noone gets Hurt or sad!..its merely a lil bit of Life Betterment work !
P.S --Have power, use it. (( nudge... wink ))
if u get interested in the Smart Geometry group take in consideration they work closely enough to the people at the Em Tech at the AA (Emergent Technologies @ the Architectural Association, London), if ur not interested in getting the degree of post-arch studies then u might wanna talk them into doing a semester or year at the "undergrad" Diploma 4 studio of Michael Hensel (from the EmTech), also u could check out the new book that went out couple of months ago from AA publication (Hensel+Mengues) "MORPHO-ECOLOGIES", and last but no least u could check out Neri Oxman's work (currently in the PhD program at the MIT, but close collaborator of the EmTech and Hansel+Mengues 'gang'): http://www.materialecology.com/
anyways can't think of better or closer aproaches to what ur looking for....
good luck...
P.S. Smart Geometry give workshops, but i dont think they have any kind of training for professionals or ppl interested while this workshops are not currently happening, there was one in NY around theses days, isn't??
'nyways...bests
Thanks for the link MAD,..this thread is not so degenerate afterall, except for that timesheet hacking tips..:-)
Question:
It seems alot of schools have something in the way of "digital" pedagogies and methods. Perhaps to keep up?!
I am applying to all those darn Ivies right now, ..I feel it is a crap shoot for me...but If I do make it in somewhere ,somehow...Are there schools I should consider NOT going to ....If I , indeed, want to explore all these themes in this thread... For instance, you don;t have to tell me I'll find it at Columbia r Upenn, but do any of you think I should FORGO acceptance at any of these school, because they won't satiate my urge to "be digital" .
{I mean I gotta get a degree some day....because I can't find any jobs that read something like "Digital Morphologists - no experince or degree necessary"}
I will once again shamelessly plug the program I am in here at Stevens Institute of Technology. Our program is very involved with "digital pedagagies" and it seems much of our curriculum is becoming more and more focused on algorithmic techniques to aide in design.
A former student of our program and now hotshot at Gehry Tech's NYC office teaches advanced scripting courses in our program... The guy is a genius. And this past semester we had Chris Lasch of ArandaLasch/TerraSwarm ( http://www.terraswarm.com/ and authors of Tooling) for another great course primarily in RhinoScripting. Both of them plan on continuing teaching in our program.
OK, done plugging.
hey monkeyboy - hows things going - are you going to smart geometry this year? [did you hear yet?]
id second the plug for stevens
Things are going great. Finally got my website up to presenting condition so I hope to start getting some interviews over break.
Dont know if i will make Smart Geom. or not. I actually heard yesterday.. I submitted with a fellow student and i got put on the wait list and while i am pretty sure my partner was accepted. I wonder what their criteria was since our apps were pretty much identical (showed the same work and text was similar) From what i hear they had a pretty large response. There were i think 4 apps from our program (2 two person teams) and i think one from each team got accepted. Too bad, I am not sure if its worth paying the 1500 for the workshop fee anyway. Guess i have to learn it the hard way.
Thanks for seconding the plug
we can also add these other schools in europe
berlage institute; netherlands
staedelschule; germany
die angewandte; austria
upc; spain
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.