hello archi-people
here it goes.. on a theoretical basis, how can u manipulate fourth dimensional space to reverse temporal and permanent architectural spaces. i'm just thinking out loud but tunnels, for example, should be designed with simplicity; being passive (temporary) spaces where the user is allowed a limited amount - an instant - of time to fully absorb and comprehend the space, whereas prisons, being the permanent counterpart in theory, should offer their users (inmates that is) differing degrees of complexity whether this be in design, flow of space, etc. as they're bound to stay a little bit longer! now if one wishes to challenge the meaning of temporality and permanence in this case it can simply be done by having complex passive spaces and vice versa.
my question is, how can u do this (reverse temp/fixed spaces) by disrupting the linear process of time relative to space instead of manipulate the space by itself, using perception as the recording device for the user.
i know this all sounds like gibberish, does a bit to me! it's really hard to put in exact words plus my english is not helping at the moment! nevertheless, i'm hoping this got through to some of u at least! i really need thoughts/ideas on this or just useful references to check out (anything regarding temporality, fourth dimension, non-linear time, etc.).
this is all hypothetical so even the most naive or general ideas can be inspiring at this point.. if u have a say on this i'd be grateful.
thanks
p.s. i'm hoping this wont so much relate back to virtual architecture, portable, or anything associated with prefab. :)
hibz-
the following is an abstract for a project i developed which attempted some similar things. not reversing time (which i question) but introducing intentional pulses/pauses in the perception of time. just as an example. the crary article quoted is excellent, by the way.
[…], or Time Out:
Spectacle embedded within a broader field of attraction
"Whether it is how we behave in front of the luminous screen of a computer or how we experience a performance in an opera house, how we accomplish certain productive, creative, or pedagogical tasks or how we more passively perform routine activities like driving a car or watching television, we are in a dimension of contemporary experience that requires that we effectively cancel out or exclude from consciousness much of immediate environment. I am interested in how Western modernity since the nineteenth century has demanded that individuals define and shape themselves in terms of capacity for ‘paying attention’, that is, for a disengagement from a broader field of attraction, whether visual or auditory, for the sake of isolating or focusing on a reduced number of stimuli. That our lives are so thoroughly a patchwork of such disconnected states is not a ‘natural’ condition but rather a product of a dense and powerful remaking of human subjectivity in the West over the last 150 years. Nor is it insignificant now at the end of the twentieth century that one of he ways an immense social crisis or subjective dis-integration is metaphorically diagnosed is as a deficiency of ‘attention’."
–Jonathan Crary, from Introduction to Suspension of Perception.
Architects since the beginning of the twentieth century have often favored the spectacle/figure over consideration for continuity of the environment/field. Field is unconsidered, underdeveloped, ancillary, or complementary to figure – a built-environment parallel to Crary’s description of subjective disengagement through focused attention.
In contrast, pre-modern urban forms evolved with a normative environment/field as the primary condition of urban engagement and cohesiveness which, once established, could then accommodate incidental figures.
This project proposes that the spectacle/figure, […], will be defined and contained with reference to a field counterpart, the prose of the urban environment.
The […] is:
inchoate when disconnected from the ‘broader field of attraction’.
a position from which to view the broader field, a pause from which to reflect and decide a course of further action.
a time set aside, a measured period of the normative condition’s temporary suspension, to allow for a period of respite or focused interaction.
With an embedding of a series of […]s, as spectacle/figures, within a discursive field, the […]s will act as marks of punctuation or accent, points of emphasis or pause, in a dialectical relationship with a prosaic condition.
thanx a lot Steven Ward and Medusa u both gave me very interesting material, i’ve just looked up the Bablyon project i think it might help a lot, gonna start reading about it now :)
i appreciate ur input Steven this is definitely worthy stuff to think about. i actually didn’t mean reversal of time, but sort of introducing a paradox in the relationship between time and space so that the end result would present/imply non-linear time in a space that can be defined as permanent and linear-fixed time in temporary spaces. it sort of relates to ur project, which i found very interesting, i think ur spectacles or […]s relate more to private spaces – static points in space that are personal to the viewer, from which u can observe the broader field that relate to public space in a way, since public spaces are inherently temporal. the […] is a pause or a temporary suspension of time, yet existent as long as it’s not disconnected from the broader field and therefore spatially fixed as a referential point, so it does sort of imply a paradox in the space-time relationship.. no? don’t know if this is a valid explanation, maybe i’m just trying to understand it with reference to my project.. haha anyway tell me what u think!
i'd appreciate further input come on people!
It would be hard to manipulate fourth dimensional space in the manner you're speaking of. Example, a two dimensional environment cannot manipulate a three dimensional environment, only simulate it. Read "Flatland" by Edwin A. Abbott if you haven't already, it's a great down to earth primer.
It's theorized that with infinite speed, one ages at a slower rate than one who is not moving. Using this concept, if one can exist at all points in the tunnel simultaneously, then time will have stopped in a sense. What you could do is use static images on the tunnel walls to simulate a paradox of physical movement but have a visual fixed image. Subways around the world are using this concept to do advertising.
As for prisons, would you really want to speed up their experience? The down time is meant to make it all the more effective.
If you wanted to simulate fourth dimensional space, then I think you'd have to collapse programmatic relationships "into" a three dimensional space. 3D to 2D, so 4D to 3D. Also read "The Elegant Universe" by Brian Greene? (All the scientific philosophy without the math!)
thanks for all your input and references all gonna checking em all out, yeah i read Flatland by the way, it is a great read definitely!
actually i only brought up tunnels and prisons as an example of passive-fixed spaces, but they served in developing the concept a bit so no harm done there :)
hey it's me again! i'm still doing my research for this unrealized project, came up with a lot of ideas and proposals through intensive brainstorming sessions! but just discovered that i can't really sum up the whole thing in one sentence or paragraph.. whenever someone asks me to explain it in short i start to panic!
anyway, Steven Ward, if possible could u please provide me with further info on that project u did? written stuff. i'm still interested in it because ur abstract brought up points i haven't considered before - the relationship between two seemingly seperate worlds and what is needed to define a temporary space, plus symbolic vs realised space.
plus if anyone has something to add, all the responces so far have been helpful so the more the merrier.
I came across this blog while researching into my thesis topic of Space, time and architecture: The publics experiences within internal spaces.
I am an Interior Design student in South Africa completing my degree. The points brought up in this discussion are very helpful. The one tool I am using to get information is a online interview. I was wondering if anyone would be interested in answering a few questions on the Fourth dimension in Architecture principles and characteristics. The questions are fairly basic and i will email them through to you in a Microsoft word document with a letter of consent attached for you to read and sign.
I would greatly appreciate your knowledge on the topic.
Please will anyone let me know if they are interested.
Thank you so much
Thank you so much
May 17, 11 8:00 am ·
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read this!
hello archi-people
here it goes.. on a theoretical basis, how can u manipulate fourth dimensional space to reverse temporal and permanent architectural spaces. i'm just thinking out loud but tunnels, for example, should be designed with simplicity; being passive (temporary) spaces where the user is allowed a limited amount - an instant - of time to fully absorb and comprehend the space, whereas prisons, being the permanent counterpart in theory, should offer their users (inmates that is) differing degrees of complexity whether this be in design, flow of space, etc. as they're bound to stay a little bit longer! now if one wishes to challenge the meaning of temporality and permanence in this case it can simply be done by having complex passive spaces and vice versa.
my question is, how can u do this (reverse temp/fixed spaces) by disrupting the linear process of time relative to space instead of manipulate the space by itself, using perception as the recording device for the user.
i know this all sounds like gibberish, does a bit to me! it's really hard to put in exact words plus my english is not helping at the moment! nevertheless, i'm hoping this got through to some of u at least! i really need thoughts/ideas on this or just useful references to check out (anything regarding temporality, fourth dimension, non-linear time, etc.).
this is all hypothetical so even the most naive or general ideas can be inspiring at this point.. if u have a say on this i'd be grateful.
thanks
p.s. i'm hoping this wont so much relate back to virtual architecture, portable, or anything associated with prefab. :)
hibz-
the following is an abstract for a project i developed which attempted some similar things. not reversing time (which i question) but introducing intentional pulses/pauses in the perception of time. just as an example. the crary article quoted is excellent, by the way.
[…], or Time Out:
Spectacle embedded within a broader field of attraction
"Whether it is how we behave in front of the luminous screen of a computer or how we experience a performance in an opera house, how we accomplish certain productive, creative, or pedagogical tasks or how we more passively perform routine activities like driving a car or watching television, we are in a dimension of contemporary experience that requires that we effectively cancel out or exclude from consciousness much of immediate environment. I am interested in how Western modernity since the nineteenth century has demanded that individuals define and shape themselves in terms of capacity for ‘paying attention’, that is, for a disengagement from a broader field of attraction, whether visual or auditory, for the sake of isolating or focusing on a reduced number of stimuli. That our lives are so thoroughly a patchwork of such disconnected states is not a ‘natural’ condition but rather a product of a dense and powerful remaking of human subjectivity in the West over the last 150 years. Nor is it insignificant now at the end of the twentieth century that one of he ways an immense social crisis or subjective dis-integration is metaphorically diagnosed is as a deficiency of ‘attention’."
–Jonathan Crary, from Introduction to Suspension of Perception.
Architects since the beginning of the twentieth century have often favored the spectacle/figure over consideration for continuity of the environment/field. Field is unconsidered, underdeveloped, ancillary, or complementary to figure – a built-environment parallel to Crary’s description of subjective disengagement through focused attention.
In contrast, pre-modern urban forms evolved with a normative environment/field as the primary condition of urban engagement and cohesiveness which, once established, could then accommodate incidental figures.
This project proposes that the spectacle/figure, […], will be defined and contained with reference to a field counterpart, the prose of the urban environment.
The […] is:
inchoate when disconnected from the ‘broader field of attraction’.
a position from which to view the broader field, a pause from which to reflect and decide a course of further action.
a time set aside, a measured period of the normative condition’s temporary suspension, to allow for a period of respite or focused interaction.
With an embedding of a series of […]s, as spectacle/figures, within a discursive field, the […]s will act as marks of punctuation or accent, points of emphasis or pause, in a dialectical relationship with a prosaic condition.
Check out the New Babylon project by Constant.
thanx a lot Steven Ward and Medusa u both gave me very interesting material, i’ve just looked up the Bablyon project i think it might help a lot, gonna start reading about it now :)
i appreciate ur input Steven this is definitely worthy stuff to think about. i actually didn’t mean reversal of time, but sort of introducing a paradox in the relationship between time and space so that the end result would present/imply non-linear time in a space that can be defined as permanent and linear-fixed time in temporary spaces. it sort of relates to ur project, which i found very interesting, i think ur spectacles or […]s relate more to private spaces – static points in space that are personal to the viewer, from which u can observe the broader field that relate to public space in a way, since public spaces are inherently temporal. the […] is a pause or a temporary suspension of time, yet existent as long as it’s not disconnected from the broader field and therefore spatially fixed as a referential point, so it does sort of imply a paradox in the space-time relationship.. no? don’t know if this is a valid explanation, maybe i’m just trying to understand it with reference to my project.. haha anyway tell me what u think!
i'd appreciate further input come on people!
It would be hard to manipulate fourth dimensional space in the manner you're speaking of. Example, a two dimensional environment cannot manipulate a three dimensional environment, only simulate it. Read "Flatland" by Edwin A. Abbott if you haven't already, it's a great down to earth primer.
It's theorized that with infinite speed, one ages at a slower rate than one who is not moving. Using this concept, if one can exist at all points in the tunnel simultaneously, then time will have stopped in a sense. What you could do is use static images on the tunnel walls to simulate a paradox of physical movement but have a visual fixed image. Subways around the world are using this concept to do advertising.
As for prisons, would you really want to speed up their experience? The down time is meant to make it all the more effective.
If you wanted to simulate fourth dimensional space, then I think you'd have to collapse programmatic relationships "into" a three dimensional space. 3D to 2D, so 4D to 3D. Also read "The Elegant Universe" by Brian Greene? (All the scientific philosophy without the math!)
Is space the product of historical time?
Bernard Tschumi, "Questions of Space"
tunnels? prisons??? sounds like a job for...
thanks for all your input and references all gonna checking em all out, yeah i read Flatland by the way, it is a great read definitely!
actually i only brought up tunnels and prisons as an example of passive-fixed spaces, but they served in developing the concept a bit so no harm done there :)
hey it's me again! i'm still doing my research for this unrealized project, came up with a lot of ideas and proposals through intensive brainstorming sessions! but just discovered that i can't really sum up the whole thing in one sentence or paragraph.. whenever someone asks me to explain it in short i start to panic!
anyway, Steven Ward, if possible could u please provide me with further info on that project u did? written stuff. i'm still interested in it because ur abstract brought up points i haven't considered before - the relationship between two seemingly seperate worlds and what is needed to define a temporary space, plus symbolic vs realised space.
plus if anyone has something to add, all the responces so far have been helpful so the more the merrier.
thanks
Hi.
I came across this blog while researching into my thesis topic of Space, time and architecture: The publics experiences within internal spaces.
I am an Interior Design student in South Africa completing my degree. The points brought up in this discussion are very helpful. The one tool I am using to get information is a online interview. I was wondering if anyone would be interested in answering a few questions on the Fourth dimension in Architecture principles and characteristics. The questions are fairly basic and i will email them through to you in a Microsoft word document with a letter of consent attached for you to read and sign.
I would greatly appreciate your knowledge on the topic.
Please will anyone let me know if they are interested.
Thank you so much
Thank you so much
Block this user
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Archinect
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