For a young professional, what makes Chicago a worthwhile alternative to NYC or any other big city for that matter. I ask because, like many here, I am considering a city move in the near future...
not to knock what shalak said above, but i love how people in midwestern cities almost always fall back on the words 'world class city' when describing theirs. chicago actually merits the phrase, due to sheer size and impact, but i've also heard this in the minne-apple and other second and third tier cities. whatever their actual merits, there is a discomfort, an insecurity, that maybe they're NOT recognized at the level of the world community. do you think the people in the maldives know where milwaukee is?
ya, the weather is what may bring me back to Florida in the future (as well as family)...otherwise, for a pre-grad school stint (1-2yrs) wind, snow and cold won't be too big a problem..
to me, chicago needs no comparison to anywhere else, although native or long-time chicagoans seem obsessed with comparing their city. it is a city of surprising and astounding beauty at times -- and often that beauty is juxtaposed with horrendous ugliness, kinda like the thorn on a rose. chicago is indeed a rose with thorns -- for a thornless rose try san francisco.
the lakefront far exceeds (in my opinion) any other urban contact with nature in the US. when i lived there i was entranced and enchanted by the lake -- i kept finding apartments near it, kept running along it, kept going to it to think and draw and reflect. summer and winter. i remember once sitting on the red line at a station on my way home from work. the train was stopped right above the street, which led straight to the lake. and the sun was setting very low behind me and the light reflected off of the snowy, frozen lake below the purple sky was the most beautiful light i have ever seen.
on the other hand i saw human barbarism that i never thought possible or conceivable in the US. i saw a man flat-out punch his female companion in the face in broad daylight at the taste of chicago (of course, i also saw eight chicago PD jump on the asshole within 30 seconds). i saw (not the same) eight cops whacking the crap out of a guy at an el station for seemingly no reason. i saw kids smoking crack -- holding what i guess were their own children. i saw housing projects straight out of the gates of hell. i read a story about a dead man who had been sidestepped by commuters in a train station for an entire rush hour. the worst thing i ever saw was on a night with sub-zero temperatures -- i got off the bus to find a naked man screaming out for money at the bus stop. i gave the man $20. i should have given him my coat, but the city had already started to change me by then.
as for sanfran, I'm not goin' west coast, at least not now. Thorns are ok, those juxtapositions above illustrate a very rich and varied experience. Sounds educational.
Chicago is a great city, though I have only visited, Ochono, your second paragraph makes me want to move there today, or at least after the winter (having grown up on Lake Erie).
AP, I would go for it. I mean we are not talking about some B city or some outright dump. It is Chicago! I just hope you are not prone to the trends of Midwestern eating habits. I have finally recovered from leaving Ohio. I left 3 years ago!
so...those of you that work there, how's the professional environment? Surely there are plenty of firms of various sizes, like in any big city...just curious about your specific experiences.
i miss it at times -- quite a lot sometimes -- especially around the fall and spring
professionally i couldn't tell you much since i only worked at one firm, and that firm was SOM, and we didn't have much contact with the outside (architecture) world at SOM.
what i CAN tell you is that, at the school of the art institute of chicago, you can eat at their student cafeteria and get a good cheap burger for (in 2003) like $3. we used to go in there in our ties and suits and look real out of place. but money talks and the fries were good, too.
i've been living in austin for 2 1/2 years and i'm still trying to work off my midwestern gut -- ain't happenin' in the land of chicken-fried breakfast and chorizo
Chicago is a great place culturally and professionally. I know it gets knocked a lot as being "not NYC" but it is unique, and growing. In a region that is shrinking ( midwest) its growing and transforming into something post rust-belt 21st century. Proffesionally there is a great network here for young profesionals who work at the various large and intermediate sized firms. You meet after work, maybe go to pubs with groups from other firms or play in a softball league or even, yes, a kickball league. The one thing unique about it from other large cities is that it tuely feels small town when your in the confines of your neighborhood.
glad to see this post AP | I have been planning on moving to Chicago on March 1st '06 for some time. I have only been there once, so between googleEarth & craigslist, my knowledge of all the neighborhoods is pretty slim. Any opinions on the best hood? ...or worst?
best hoods -- imho, anywhere from irving park north to the evanston line. uptown, edgewater, rogers park. not the richest, not the poorest, not the coolest, not the most boring, not the prettiest, not the ugliest -- but the best. you're near the lake, you're near the train, you're not downtown, you're in actual neighborhoods, and god / allah bless devon ave.
wicker park is a great neighborhood
as is pilsen (i really like pilsen... maybe others dont)
and i have to say it
bridgeport
bridgeport is great cause its REALLY CHEAP, safe, friendly, old school
not much going on culturally, but its growing, and there are a few new places sprouting up, along with lots of affordable loft space, especially farther west near the river (35th and halsted ---> west)
also, its near the red line... so thats good too
for instance... i have 2 room mates, we split at 3 bedroom... 600 a month rent... thats 200 each man...... 5 blocks from where the sox play, lots of restaurants around, a few cool local 'sox' bars
but i still wish i could afford to live in wicker park
not per - I think you have some interesting thoughts but to call 'other' mid-western cities 2nd or 3rd tier is a bit ignorant. I hope you aren't saying that a city can only become "world class" based on its size.
Granted, I think many midwestern cities do give themselves titles, mostly for tourism purposes. It pains me when I speak to foreigners who've only visited NYC and think they've seen America. NYC is as much what America is as London is what Britan is.
Back to Chicago, as a former resident I'd encourage anyone to live there. It's an experience, probably not that much unlike living in NYC for the experience. I lived in the Lincoln Park area and enjoyed it. Good nightlife, always something to do. Great for anyone in their 20's.
My complaints was that like most large cities, the population was very transient. Everyone seemed to be there to build a resume and move on, or something like that. People didn't settle down. Possibly that's an effect of the neighborhood I lived in, but it bothered me seeing every friend I had there move away. People seemed to steel themselves against this by not opening up to others. It was easy to find nightlife and people to hang out with, but it was hard to find friends. If that makes sense. I guess I grew out of Chicago and moved on myself. Still, I'd never want to replace those memories. It was great. You'll love it there.
SOM chicago was alright -- apparently it's changed quite a bit since i was there -- new people / mgmt changes / etc so hmm, hard for me to say. i first started there in 2000 which in architecture years seems like a very long time ago. i left in 2003.
AP - yes, all larger cities have a degree of transient residents, but I think cities like Chicago, NYC, LA, etc. have a higher degree of this. Possibly only because of their larger populations. I just didn't notice it as much in Houston, another very large city.
I had a cramped studio apartment near the corner of Clark and Fullerton. Great location, although I didn't have the view of the park and lake. Was a block off the park more or less. Rent was somewhat steep. I seem to recall it was around $700, but the building was nice and worked great for me.
ha ha Ochona, yeah Lincoln park isn't the cheapest neighborhood. Certinaly no 3 bedroom houses going for $600/month, but being close to the park and a safe neighborhood was worth it for me.
as long as I don't have to worry about getting mugged/shot at daily, I'll be fine...growing up in Miami has prepared me for a fair degree of crime. Honestly, it keeps people on their toes...better than numb-burbia.
I live in the city still, going for lic. - but jumped to construction side where the grass is greener. Plan on practicing as architect when i finish exams though. Plus dont let people disuade you about the burbs....theyre huge economically and 7 million people live there.
Don't forget to pack your ironic trucker cap and some Chuck Taylors.
(a short train ride gets you to the Metro, Vic, and any bar you need from anywhere in the city, there's really no need to limit your search based on music. I still recommend Pilsen.)
i actually thought that if i stayed long-term in chicago that my wife and i would end up somewhere south -- somewhere between iit and u of c. the area between the two campuses is becoming viable after decades of grinding poverty. the projects have been coming down and there's killer access to downtown on two el lines. oakland / kenwood used to be some of the poorest and most crime-ridden areas in the city -- when i left it was looking like they were improving quite quickly.
oh, and take the #3 king dr. bus down past mccormick place to prairie shores. le corbusier would be proud.
One thing about working in Chicago that was just amazing is walking out the front door of the office and seeing a new 40 story condo tower going up almost across the street that I actually worked on. Cad monkey or not, it's cool to be involved in such a project.
So many people seem to disgust corporate, big arch firms. Small botique firms have their charm for sure and large offices do have their drawbacks I conceed. But Chicago is the place to work in the big office because you could very well see something big go up in your back yard. It's an experience I loved as a young intern.
I feel ya Stephanie - the music is motivation for me as well - the 'clubs' in wicker/bucktown you speak of, are these clubs ala bands? ..or ala house music?
AP
I've been in Chicago for over 8 yrs and I love it here. Architects are really busy, but the design is a little lacking. Definitely resting on its laurels. As for neighborhoods, stay away from Lincoln Park. It's not only expensive, it's annoying and so are most of the people who live there. Check out Wicker Park, Bucktown, Logan Square. All great affordable neighborhoods. Also STAY AWAY FROM THE SUBURBS!!! The monotonous landscape is only outdone by the monotonous architecture. I love the grid, the urban environment, the noise, the people, the options of what to do every night that don't include Chilis or Red Lobster. The weather isn't that bad...it gets cold but not that cold and we are on the west side of the lake so not much snow.
I have no real desire to live in the burbs...I was born out there (Lake Zurich) and I have family there, so I will visit often enough. Having never really lived in Chicago (besides the first year of my life and summer/Christmas visits) I am drawn to the urban-ness of it.
marimba - if you are into clubs ala house/techno music chicago is a pretty good place to be. that's what i loved there. good mix of mega european dj's and excellent local resident dj's. best scene for that i've seen outside miami...or ibiza...(ahh, fond memories of past indescretions abound.)
another thing that i don't think has been mentioned is that having ORD at your backdoor is nice if you like to travel international. many times i found cheap fares to europe for under $300. also it's a great hub for spreading out across n. america. the cta goes to both airports so you can be surprisingly mobile without even owning a vehicle.
Is living WEST of the Kennedy Expy very dif. than the EAST side?
I ask because looking at Chicago only from a map leads me to think that the highway might be a sort of dividing line.
how about Chicago?
For a young professional, what makes Chicago a worthwhile alternative to NYC or any other big city for that matter. I ask because, like many here, I am considering a city move in the near future...
not to knock what shalak said above, but i love how people in midwestern cities almost always fall back on the words 'world class city' when describing theirs. chicago actually merits the phrase, due to sheer size and impact, but i've also heard this in the minne-apple and other second and third tier cities. whatever their actual merits, there is a discomfort, an insecurity, that maybe they're NOT recognized at the level of the world community. do you think the people in the maldives know where milwaukee is?
ya, the weather is what may bring me back to Florida in the future (as well as family)...otherwise, for a pre-grad school stint (1-2yrs) wind, snow and cold won't be too big a problem..
how long have you lived there?
NYC i have not lived in, chicago i have
to me, chicago needs no comparison to anywhere else, although native or long-time chicagoans seem obsessed with comparing their city. it is a city of surprising and astounding beauty at times -- and often that beauty is juxtaposed with horrendous ugliness, kinda like the thorn on a rose. chicago is indeed a rose with thorns -- for a thornless rose try san francisco.
the lakefront far exceeds (in my opinion) any other urban contact with nature in the US. when i lived there i was entranced and enchanted by the lake -- i kept finding apartments near it, kept running along it, kept going to it to think and draw and reflect. summer and winter. i remember once sitting on the red line at a station on my way home from work. the train was stopped right above the street, which led straight to the lake. and the sun was setting very low behind me and the light reflected off of the snowy, frozen lake below the purple sky was the most beautiful light i have ever seen.
on the other hand i saw human barbarism that i never thought possible or conceivable in the US. i saw a man flat-out punch his female companion in the face in broad daylight at the taste of chicago (of course, i also saw eight chicago PD jump on the asshole within 30 seconds). i saw (not the same) eight cops whacking the crap out of a guy at an el station for seemingly no reason. i saw kids smoking crack -- holding what i guess were their own children. i saw housing projects straight out of the gates of hell. i read a story about a dead man who had been sidestepped by commuters in a train station for an entire rush hour. the worst thing i ever saw was on a night with sub-zero temperatures -- i got off the bus to find a naked man screaming out for money at the bus stop. i gave the man $20. i should have given him my coat, but the city had already started to change me by then.
Chicago is the best city in the country after: San Francisco, and Breckenridge, CO.
I love living here!
hmmm....maybe less that they aren't recognized, and more that they have been forgotten or over-shadowed?
either way, from my experience, Chicago is an exceptional city. Interesting comment though, not per...
wow ochona...beautifully written.
as for sanfran, I'm not goin' west coast, at least not now. Thorns are ok, those juxtapositions above illustrate a very rich and varied experience. Sounds educational.
Chicago is a great city, though I have only visited, Ochono, your second paragraph makes me want to move there today, or at least after the winter (having grown up on Lake Erie).
AP, I would go for it. I mean we are not talking about some B city or some outright dump. It is Chicago! I just hope you are not prone to the trends of Midwestern eating habits. I have finally recovered from leaving Ohio. I left 3 years ago!
i think the fact that chicago gets so many glowing reviews from its own residents is proof enough of how wonderful a city it is.
i live in chicago as well, and i love it.
it is a beautiful place
very good.
so...those of you that work there, how's the professional environment? Surely there are plenty of firms of various sizes, like in any big city...just curious about your specific experiences.
"For a young professional, what makes Chicago a worthwhile alternative to NYC or any other big city for that matter."
Hot Dogs.
Pizza.
Goose Island.
Need more?
Volleyball at North Avenue Beach.
The Doggy Beach at Lawrence ave.
The view of the South shore from U-505's periscope.
Keep going?
Old Town.
Pilsen.
Belmont/Halsted.
More?
"Cooler by the lake."
The last days of Marshall Fields.
The Red Line.
Consider me homesick.
.mm
i miss it at times -- quite a lot sometimes -- especially around the fall and spring
professionally i couldn't tell you much since i only worked at one firm, and that firm was SOM, and we didn't have much contact with the outside (architecture) world at SOM.
what i CAN tell you is that, at the school of the art institute of chicago, you can eat at their student cafeteria and get a good cheap burger for (in 2003) like $3. we used to go in there in our ties and suits and look real out of place. but money talks and the fries were good, too.
i've been living in austin for 2 1/2 years and i'm still trying to work off my midwestern gut -- ain't happenin' in the land of chicken-fried breakfast and chorizo
Chicago is a great place culturally and professionally. I know it gets knocked a lot as being "not NYC" but it is unique, and growing. In a region that is shrinking ( midwest) its growing and transforming into something post rust-belt 21st century. Proffesionally there is a great network here for young profesionals who work at the various large and intermediate sized firms. You meet after work, maybe go to pubs with groups from other firms or play in a softball league or even, yes, a kickball league. The one thing unique about it from other large cities is that it tuely feels small town when your in the confines of your neighborhood.
glad to see this post AP | I have been planning on moving to Chicago on March 1st '06 for some time. I have only been there once, so between googleEarth & craigslist, my knowledge of all the neighborhoods is pretty slim. Any opinions on the best hood? ...or worst?
best hoods -- imho, anywhere from irving park north to the evanston line. uptown, edgewater, rogers park. not the richest, not the poorest, not the coolest, not the most boring, not the prettiest, not the ugliest -- but the best. you're near the lake, you're near the train, you're not downtown, you're in actual neighborhoods, and god / allah bless devon ave.
How was SOM Chicago?
marimbaONE
wicker park is a great neighborhood
as is pilsen (i really like pilsen... maybe others dont)
and i have to say it
bridgeport
bridgeport is great cause its REALLY CHEAP, safe, friendly, old school
not much going on culturally, but its growing, and there are a few new places sprouting up, along with lots of affordable loft space, especially farther west near the river (35th and halsted ---> west)
also, its near the red line... so thats good too
for instance... i have 2 room mates, we split at 3 bedroom... 600 a month rent... thats 200 each man...... 5 blocks from where the sox play, lots of restaurants around, a few cool local 'sox' bars
but i still wish i could afford to live in wicker park
$200 a piece!?!?! that's sweet.
not per - I think you have some interesting thoughts but to call 'other' mid-western cities 2nd or 3rd tier is a bit ignorant. I hope you aren't saying that a city can only become "world class" based on its size.
Granted, I think many midwestern cities do give themselves titles, mostly for tourism purposes. It pains me when I speak to foreigners who've only visited NYC and think they've seen America. NYC is as much what America is as London is what Britan is.
Back to Chicago, as a former resident I'd encourage anyone to live there. It's an experience, probably not that much unlike living in NYC for the experience. I lived in the Lincoln Park area and enjoyed it. Good nightlife, always something to do. Great for anyone in their 20's.
My complaints was that like most large cities, the population was very transient. Everyone seemed to be there to build a resume and move on, or something like that. People didn't settle down. Possibly that's an effect of the neighborhood I lived in, but it bothered me seeing every friend I had there move away. People seemed to steel themselves against this by not opening up to others. It was easy to find nightlife and people to hang out with, but it was hard to find friends. If that makes sense. I guess I grew out of Chicago and moved on myself. Still, I'd never want to replace those memories. It was great. You'll love it there.
Want convincing? What other city has a cable-access dance show for kids of all ages?
chic-a-go-go
Heather just nailed it right on the nose.
But Ratso gives me the willies.
.mm
from your description, A, that would be the case in any city...that is, many people there for just a minute...
How was the rent in Lincoln Park?
SOM chicago was alright -- apparently it's changed quite a bit since i was there -- new people / mgmt changes / etc so hmm, hard for me to say. i first started there in 2000 which in architecture years seems like a very long time ago. i left in 2003.
rent in lincoln park = $$$$$ (out of 4 $)
AP - yes, all larger cities have a degree of transient residents, but I think cities like Chicago, NYC, LA, etc. have a higher degree of this. Possibly only because of their larger populations. I just didn't notice it as much in Houston, another very large city.
I had a cramped studio apartment near the corner of Clark and Fullerton. Great location, although I didn't have the view of the park and lake. Was a block off the park more or less. Rent was somewhat steep. I seem to recall it was around $700, but the building was nice and worked great for me.
ha ha Ochona, yeah Lincoln park isn't the cheapest neighborhood. Certinaly no 3 bedroom houses going for $600/month, but being close to the park and a safe neighborhood was worth it for me.
as long as I don't have to worry about getting mugged/shot at daily, I'll be fine...growing up in Miami has prepared me for a fair degree of crime. Honestly, it keeps people on their toes...better than numb-burbia.
if you're used to miami you'll be pretty much fine in chicago, at least in areas where you'll be spending your day-to-day
unless you decide to live in englewood
if i may butt in, how much do junior architects get paid at SOM?
good question...
also, anyone else with Chicago firm info, please offer whatever you've got
I worked a couple as jr architect @ +/- 40k/yr.......
But I loved this,
and this,
and
so you aren't there anymore?
I live in the city still, going for lic. - but jumped to construction side where the grass is greener. Plan on practicing as architect when i finish exams though. Plus dont let people disuade you about the burbs....theyre huge economically and 7 million people live there.
i started at $33,500/yr directly after graduation in 2001
the way they did it when i applied -- there was no negotiation, you either took their offer or you didn't
but considering my first (and previous) job was a summer "internship" at $8/hr i was damn happy to get 33.5
i too am looking at making a chicago move sometime in the nearish future (read: mid 2006) and was also looking for good non-SOM/mid-size firm info.
my time frame is similar...
my old hood. you can live by the lake and still get mugged!!!
this is howard
as far as this train goes
all passengers must leave the train
thank you for riding the cta
i'm pretty set on living in the wicker park/bucktown area, due to the high amount of clubs, and the music scene being part of my motivation in moving.
Don't forget to pack your ironic trucker cap and some Chuck Taylors.
(a short train ride gets you to the Metro, Vic, and any bar you need from anywhere in the city, there's really no need to limit your search based on music. I still recommend Pilsen.)
.mm
MM, did you work there?
i actually thought that if i stayed long-term in chicago that my wife and i would end up somewhere south -- somewhere between iit and u of c. the area between the two campuses is becoming viable after decades of grinding poverty. the projects have been coming down and there's killer access to downtown on two el lines. oakland / kenwood used to be some of the poorest and most crime-ridden areas in the city -- when i left it was looking like they were improving quite quickly.
oh, and take the #3 king dr. bus down past mccormick place to prairie shores. le corbusier would be proud.
One thing about working in Chicago that was just amazing is walking out the front door of the office and seeing a new 40 story condo tower going up almost across the street that I actually worked on. Cad monkey or not, it's cool to be involved in such a project.
So many people seem to disgust corporate, big arch firms. Small botique firms have their charm for sure and large offices do have their drawbacks I conceed. But Chicago is the place to work in the big office because you could very well see something big go up in your back yard. It's an experience I loved as a young intern.
I feel ya Stephanie - the music is motivation for me as well - the 'clubs' in wicker/bucktown you speak of, are these clubs ala bands? ..or ala house music?
AP
I've been in Chicago for over 8 yrs and I love it here. Architects are really busy, but the design is a little lacking. Definitely resting on its laurels. As for neighborhoods, stay away from Lincoln Park. It's not only expensive, it's annoying and so are most of the people who live there. Check out Wicker Park, Bucktown, Logan Square. All great affordable neighborhoods. Also STAY AWAY FROM THE SUBURBS!!! The monotonous landscape is only outdone by the monotonous architecture. I love the grid, the urban environment, the noise, the people, the options of what to do every night that don't include Chilis or Red Lobster. The weather isn't that bad...it gets cold but not that cold and we are on the west side of the lake so not much snow.
thanks,
I have no real desire to live in the burbs...I was born out there (Lake Zurich) and I have family there, so I will visit often enough. Having never really lived in Chicago (besides the first year of my life and summer/Christmas visits) I am drawn to the urban-ness of it.
marimba - if you are into clubs ala house/techno music chicago is a pretty good place to be. that's what i loved there. good mix of mega european dj's and excellent local resident dj's. best scene for that i've seen outside miami...or ibiza...(ahh, fond memories of past indescretions abound.)
another thing that i don't think has been mentioned is that having ORD at your backdoor is nice if you like to travel international. many times i found cheap fares to europe for under $300. also it's a great hub for spreading out across n. america. the cta goes to both airports so you can be surprisingly mobile without even owning a vehicle.
Is living WEST of the Kennedy Expy very dif. than the EAST side?
I ask because looking at Chicago only from a map leads me to think that the highway might be a sort of dividing line.
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