Beatledud...hate to be a stickler here but you said:
"ex: national average of a registered arch with 5 years of experience (doesn't have to be registered) ranges from 55k to 85k."
I believe the correct stat would be for REGISTERED architects and I think most people would say that that salary range (hell, even the lowest end of that range) wouldn't be attained until you've spent 5 years as a registered architect. So, that means that you've probably been in the biz for 10 years +. Plus, i don't think those salaries are available for people with 5 years experience anywhere but a large coastal us city in a boom economy. I'm not trying to piss on your parade here, beatledud...but making 55K a year, 5years total experience, unregistered, in Cincinnati isn't attainable....and i'd say we're nationally average.
I think there is a very flat plateau of salaries in the 45-55K range for architects...unless you manage to get yourself into some type of management role/Vice President slot in a huge firm that operates on traded or employee/management-held stock. Although it is possible to make substantial monies as an architect, it usually requires an ownership and/or managment role and a bumper crop of projects....everything has to be in place and you must balance luck with skill.
Typically, you can find a firm that is willing to give you a slight raise when you get registered but its not 10K a year unless you are going to be taking on substantially more responsibility/risk like stamping your own drawings. again...sorry to piss on your parade but if you are able to command a 55K/yr salary 4-5 years out of school in 2005 then you have found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, Sir and I'd love to hear how you've done it.
If you look under the description of 'Architect V' (the job title which generated this salary average) it states 4-5 years experience in architecture or related field and to have an architects license. It does not imply that you have to be registered for those first few years (which is what I was trying to illude at, with 5 years experience then becoming registered, you enter in at 55k, being registered for some or all of those 5 years puts you towards the upper end). This was using Minneapolis as a base area, which is a little bit higher than Cincy.
Keep in mind that the rates INCLUDE benefits/bonuses, so you can take off between 3-7k to get your actual. Select the benefit tab on that screen to see what I'm talking about.
Either way, I don't take offense iOFa or five for brining up different ideas/aspects/corrections. But man, people get deffensive on this site quickly. Sima-dow-now (just providing some witty banter, not to take personal).
I personally didn't take offense at your comments, Beatledud...far from it...but do understand that we all can and will get corrected on this site from time to time. i'm just merely pointing out that the stats are probably grossly exaggerated...and you will not get these numbers and shouldn't get your hopes up...period. I've never seen it and if you were to look at the archinect poll (not scientific, by any means but neither is salarydotcom) this will bear out as being unrealistic. again...not trying to burst your bubble but if anyone can tell me that a 27 yr old newly registered architect in Minneapolis is making 48K (less your 7K for beneifits, on Average...which by definition means 1/2 are making more than 48K!!!), i'll eat my hat.
Also, i've done the salarydotcom evaluation...and more than architect V having a certain salary range determined by years of experience, its more important to look at the job scope. from salarydotcom:
"ArchitectV: Oversees and plans all architectural aspects of construction projects. Responsible for final specifications, approval of ordered materials, and overall guidance on objectives and concepts. May also supervise and evaluate work of subordinate architects and technicians. Requires a bachelor's degree in architecture, an Architect license, and at least 4 years of experience in the field or in a related area. Familiar with a variety of the field's concepts, practices, and procedures. Relies on extensive experience and judgment to plan and accomplish goals. Performs a variety of complex tasks. Leads and directs the work of others. A wide degree of creativity and latitude is expected. Typically reports to a manager."
So, you are project manager and team leader and is responsible for all overseeing all aspects of projects. if you are 4 years out of school, are you ready for that??? NO??? me neither which is why you are probably more like an architect III at that stage in your career having only done a few years of co-op and post-grad work in the field.
therein lies the ceiling of the architecture profession in America throughout the latter half of the 20th Century. There are not as many divesified positions within the profession with little definition in most firms between someone with 10 years experience and one with 30 years. Once you reach the project manager stage (of which there are few in an office and therefore statistically harder to obtain without moving around considerably between firms) there you will stay.
Everyone else in your firm not a project manager is either a registered architect doing what an intern is doing but doing it better but not getting paid what the project manager is because his responsibility is lower....and plus, we graduate more 'soon to be architects' than we retire fully registered architects...so the field is saturated with interns...and the firms benefit from their higher experience but lower pay. its a cycle and if you like where you work and what you do, you will find it harder to obtain the position you may deserve....
so, i'm just saying that one should take the salarydotcom stats with a serious grain of salt.
However, for me it doesn't matter, I'll make loads.
Plus I have NO desire to be stuck at a project architect for the rest of my life nor do I have any desire to be a registered architect with out any major title.
Rather my goal is to co-open my own firm before the age of 35 (I've got about 10 years post-graduating from UC to complete that). In fact, I have already began talks with 2 designers in their 40's that are considering preparing to make plans to open our own firm in Chicago soon after graduating from UC. True, salarydotcom may be over rating it, but I see their high range as being a realistic, if not low, goal for myself.
BTW, anyone know the quality of the MBA program at UC? Anyone know any architects that did dual M.Arch and MBA?
Well, then best of luck to you, beatledud. Be sure to keep us posted on your progress. Seems like the only thing you neglected to mention was your trophy-wife...is that job listed on salarydotcom?
there is no trophy-wife. With all the commitment I will be giving to my job, I won't be able to take care of a family. If I did marry, she would eventualy divorce me and take my money. Nope, $7 hookers are all I need. Ehr-go living in OTR.
beatle and iOFa, is there a chance that you guys could put summary sentences at the beginning of your posts? Perhaps an outline of main ideas as well? Thanks :o)
just kidding. BTW I'm all about starting a firm so perhaps we could plant the seeds of that idea and let them grow in the parking lot between our buildings, lol.
UC MBA=not so good--it's a useless degree for someone without business experience, anyway. My advice, wait until you have some laps under your belt before you start thinking about it--ask yourself whether you'll really need it. Average age in an MBA class is early thrities.
I have a BS in business economics, which I am pairing with an M Arch in hopes of starting a design-develop firm with my lady. MBA down the road, maybe, but IV only for that.
beatledud, i see i`ve started comparing more with the 2+. so you mean to say that it cud be an advantage for us with the 3+? especially with the IDP, right?
or why can`t the 2+ ppl earn theit IDP hours after school? er.. i cud sound a little dumb, i`m not really familiar with this.
moreover we pay the tution for an extra year don`t we?
frankly i was`nt even bothered about this when i applied.
wow! only 12- 14 selected? is that good? there seem to be more people in the 2+ working in 2 batches.
hope i get this thing outta my mind.
anyway, about your aprt (EM`s bldg?).. we`ll talk when time comes. but do save it for me till we decide.
and yeah i`ll take a look at the ncarb link soon. thanks.
You earn IDP hours when you've reached your third year in undergrad and start working for architect/design/construction firms (there is max hours you can register at places that don't deal with mainly architecture). You can ofcourse earn hours after you leave school (99% of people don't finish their hours while they're in school).
Is the 2+ or 3+ better? It's all how you look at it and where you're coming from.
2+ is MEANT for undergrad UC students (they ofcourse make exceptions). This is because of the co-op.
One could make the arguement that it isn't better. A 2 year program is better because then you can get out into the realy world sooner, start earning full IDP time sooner, make more money sooner, and get your licensing sooner...ofcourse all of this by about a year's time.
The arguement could also be made that the program is better than a standard 2 year. What seperates a good architect from a CAD monkey? The ability to design, and an extra year of training can only help that ability, right? Plus the co-op provides you with not only work experience, but multiple work experiences, anywhere in the world that you want. The firms are required to help you the best they can with earning IDP in the categories that you need (so if you're full on construction documents they aren't suppose to keep on working you in that area, it's an agreement with UC the firms have). It isn't as hard to find a firm as they have a HUGE list that only 40 students or so have to choose from each qtr. In the real world.....not that easy. Someone doesn't give you a list and says "pick one". You have to BEG, like I did.
As far as the tuition goes, yeah we have to pay extra. Keep in mind though that tuition is based on qtrs, and you don't work the same amount of qtrs each year. Go to UC's website, look at the M.Arch program and 3+ section, figure out the qtrs that you have class and the ones that you have co-op. Classes you can add as a qtr with tuition and fee payments. Co-Ops have a small fee of like $300 last I checked, plus you get payed regularly with them.
Check on resdidency tuition. I know for US residents, you can become an Ohio resident after a year and start to pay instate tuition afterwards...I don't know what the deal is if you're from India (that's where you said you were from, right?).
That's about it. Like I said, give Gordon a ring if you have any questions. Good luck.
back to the salary discussion:
AM I reading this correctly iOFa? I am in a slightly different cost of living market where I reside but before up and leaving my last job, which most likely paid me a bit too much, I would say you are eating your hat and I am 2 years out of school. And I am not alone out here.
Granted, back in Ohio the salary would probably drop 10% automatically. However, I think salary has more to dow ith how a firm operates than experience level. I accidentally priced myself out of a really great job possibility not too long ago because I didn't realize they probably wanted to pay no more than 40k for me whereas at a different firm I have found that the number I have thrown out hasn't even ruffled a feather.
Bottom line, architects are underpaid as a profession, no big secret, and trying to get what one is worth is OK to my mind. WIth that said, the work is more important than the money for me.......
um, monkeyboy, I did quit my last job.........and am now freelancing. Not sure what the burn is about?? More so since there is a disclaimer at the bottom of my last post. My last post was not me boasting at all, just adding info to the convo which was taking place.
At the moment I am working for a smaller firm that does high end residential work, both new build and interior, in and around the NYC area. I do not have any intention on staying here long term as it is not the type of architecture which interests me most. With that said not only is the job market slow in NYC at the moment (summer) but finding a good firm that is a good fit without knowing someone already on the inside is difficult in this city.
am I an architect v? I assume this is in regards to the links which were added previously which I have not looked at? I think I am considered a "junior architect". 2 years of fulltime, post grad work, and 2 or so years of intern work. Not yet an intermediate architect, another year and a 1/2 for that I think?? And I am not registered - hell I haven't even signed up for IDP!
wait a sec........beatledud are you going for grad school?? OR are you a transfer student into the undergrad program?
You have 3 classes on your schedule that are a complete waste of your time and money if the former is the case. David freaking Lee Smith is teaching something beyond pre-school? are you kidding me, master of powerpoint? What I learned in that exact same class as a second year student = zero! And intro to co-op with Bruce Evans? Here is your intro to co-op. you get a job, you move, you show up at work, you work.....it's like THAT hard to get. BTW, he goes for the fishing talky talk as well. and programming?? PROGRAMMING??? oh for fuck's sake. I really hate to sound like a downer/cynic here but I am operating under the assumption that this is grad school you signed up for and that it is 2 years.........I was also under the impression that UC was re-vamping their entire cirriculum not just renaming courses for older students??? Not a single theory class? No history? No computer technologies? No research based classes? I would like to compare/contrast your schedule with someone in the MArch program at say SCI-Arch or Princeteon or georgia tech or Ohio State cause maybe it is just me but it sounds like you are caught in limbo between 2nd and 3rd year at an institition that is still stuck in the early 90's.........
Five...the offer stands. i'm a man of my word....but it had best be one fine blog because i don't buy cheap beer.
aeaa, although i agree with you to a point, i think that beatledud's schedule represents the extent of the 'catch up' classes offered within that grad program track. i may be incorrect on this though as they have re-titled many of the classes we took in undergrad since i left school. the curriculum for both programs are found here:
You can see that the MAA is geared towards Thesis the way we knew it (close anyway) and the MSA tries to build upon what we learned in our 6yrs into 4yrs with slightly less co-op then adding on heavy load of theory in the final 1.5 yrs plus some itteration of thesis. Again...this may be my naive look at the curriculum but this is how i see it. I suppose without looking at the list of profs teaching those additional such a courseload commensurate with a MSA degree.
I'm going into Grad school, 3+ program, and I did NOT do my undergrad at UC, I did it at U of Minnesota. And in some ways, yeah, I am kind of stuck between the two years. The studios are undergrad studios in a way, but they are taught seperately from the undergrads, all of us undergrads take it under a seperate instructor with a different curriculum. As far as some of the other truly undergrad classes, I guess they are classes they want students with degrees from different universities to take. After the first year, then they join us with the 2+ grad students who start our second year.
The main two points for taking the first, additional year as far as I know is as follows:
1. To take studios that focus on BOTH design and construction, and to concentrate on how to work them together simultaneously.
2. To be given 2 qtrs of Co-Op which UC undergrads received and most other istitutions did not offer.
The other classes are to strengthen structure knowledge, and to get us up to the 10 credit minimum. Also I think that UC believes their undergrad is better than mosts, and wants to make sure their grad students are at eye level with their graduating undergrads (maybe they're right, I don't know/care).
I know I did talk him out of some classes, as the first year of 3+ you're suppose to take 18 credits fall qtr and 17 credits sprint qtr.
You can see the schedule for 2,3,& 4 year students here: http://www.daap.uc.edu/program_pdf/said/MA_Architecture.pdf
Oh, and here is my spring qtr schedule, just won't register it for a few months:
SEC Studio 2 23ARCH502 5
Structures 4 23ARCH677 3
Prof. Practice 23ARCH637 3
11 total credits
I have 15 credits this fall qtr, and only 11 credits spring qtr. Because of the Co-Op and their wavering of how well my degree prepared me for design with building structures, I don't quite qualify to be boosted up to 2+. Which is fine because of the four schools I applied to (U of Minnesota, U of Wisconsin, U of Virginia, and UC), everyone except U of VA let me in, and they all are 3 years...but UC I think was the best school and UC has 3 years but not as much physical months in school as UW or UofM.
So instead I'll take an easy first year at a new school/city, my first year right out of a 4 year intensive undergrad. Plus I get to have 2 really cool jobs in 2 places that I choose, make some cash and IDP hours, and UC is for the most part comping me for my first year. So what do I have to complain about?
Especialy since If I went to the UofM for grad school (my undergrad) I would have been there for 3 years also, payed about $25,000 more than UC (and that's with me getting in state at UofM) and not made as much money/experience due to lack of co-op.
Also, U of M....ALL THEORY. I talk to people at my work that have been doing this stuff for 20-30 years, and I can out talk them with theory. But they start asking me how to build a wall and I have no freaking idea. That's why I'm going to UC over UofM too.
Also, U of M....ALL THEORY. I talk to people at my work that have been doing this stuff for 20-30 years, and I can out talk them with theory. But they start asking me how to build a wall and I have no freaking idea. That's why I'm going to UC over UofM too. I nee practical shit I can use with my theory.
not to say theory isn't important, because it's what seperates the cad monkeys from the successful architects. I just need to know how to apply my theory in the real world, not studio.
Like I said, iOFa, you're on--blog entry quality bears directly on beer quality from here on out, so I'll need some cold smith's oatmeal stout and a liter of three philosophers lambic to get going...
I'll email Javier right now, and set this thing up. Of course, mine won't bang it out like some of the yalies et al, as I have yet to study in rome, work in NY, or do other high-minded archithings. We'll begin at the beginning, where I will log my thoughts on the exercise we are working on now, which is doing drawings of the 'space between' tango dancers, making a mold and casting it. Sha, zaam!
five...sounds like a plan...BUT...if we're going lambic, we're doing it my way with rasberry frambois....and if you expect 6, 750ml bottles a week you are high. ;-) Blog on.
Oh this is very exciting. If you would like any of us to contribute by making up something pretentious about designing polycarbonate clouds for swedish design shows whilst riding our Vespas through the urban glory of Paris, please let us know.
Help with Cincinnati Living
Beatledud...hate to be a stickler here but you said:
"ex: national average of a registered arch with 5 years of experience (doesn't have to be registered) ranges from 55k to 85k."
I believe the correct stat would be for REGISTERED architects and I think most people would say that that salary range (hell, even the lowest end of that range) wouldn't be attained until you've spent 5 years as a registered architect. So, that means that you've probably been in the biz for 10 years +. Plus, i don't think those salaries are available for people with 5 years experience anywhere but a large coastal us city in a boom economy. I'm not trying to piss on your parade here, beatledud...but making 55K a year, 5years total experience, unregistered, in Cincinnati isn't attainable....and i'd say we're nationally average.
I think there is a very flat plateau of salaries in the 45-55K range for architects...unless you manage to get yourself into some type of management role/Vice President slot in a huge firm that operates on traded or employee/management-held stock. Although it is possible to make substantial monies as an architect, it usually requires an ownership and/or managment role and a bumper crop of projects....everything has to be in place and you must balance luck with skill.
Typically, you can find a firm that is willing to give you a slight raise when you get registered but its not 10K a year unless you are going to be taking on substantially more responsibility/risk like stamping your own drawings. again...sorry to piss on your parade but if you are able to command a 55K/yr salary 4-5 years out of school in 2005 then you have found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, Sir and I'd love to hear how you've done it.
iOFa-
Here is where I was getting my info at:
http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_compresult.asp?origin=secheader&statecode=&state=&metro=&city=&geo=U.S.+National+Averages&jobcode=DD19000046&jobtitle=Architect+V&search=&narrowdesc=Architecture&narrowcode=DD01&r=salswz_swzttsbtn_psr&p=050205_psr_495&s=salary&geocode=&pagenumber=&zipcode=55414&metrocode=&x=59&y=11
If you look under the description of 'Architect V' (the job title which generated this salary average) it states 4-5 years experience in architecture or related field and to have an architects license. It does not imply that you have to be registered for those first few years (which is what I was trying to illude at, with 5 years experience then becoming registered, you enter in at 55k, being registered for some or all of those 5 years puts you towards the upper end). This was using Minneapolis as a base area, which is a little bit higher than Cincy.
Go here to enter in other arhitect levels, it's a fun to check out the averages:
http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_advancesearch.asp?searchfor=salary&searchtext=architect+v&origin=secheader&altername=architect+v&Action=Go
Keep in mind that the rates INCLUDE benefits/bonuses, so you can take off between 3-7k to get your actual. Select the benefit tab on that screen to see what I'm talking about.
Either way, I don't take offense iOFa or five for brining up different ideas/aspects/corrections. But man, people get deffensive on this site quickly. Sima-dow-now (just providing some witty banter, not to take personal).
I personally didn't take offense at your comments, Beatledud...far from it...but do understand that we all can and will get corrected on this site from time to time. i'm just merely pointing out that the stats are probably grossly exaggerated...and you will not get these numbers and shouldn't get your hopes up...period. I've never seen it and if you were to look at the archinect poll (not scientific, by any means but neither is salarydotcom) this will bear out as being unrealistic. again...not trying to burst your bubble but if anyone can tell me that a 27 yr old newly registered architect in Minneapolis is making 48K (less your 7K for beneifits, on Average...which by definition means 1/2 are making more than 48K!!!), i'll eat my hat.
Also, i've done the salarydotcom evaluation...and more than architect V having a certain salary range determined by years of experience, its more important to look at the job scope. from salarydotcom:
"ArchitectV: Oversees and plans all architectural aspects of construction projects. Responsible for final specifications, approval of ordered materials, and overall guidance on objectives and concepts. May also supervise and evaluate work of subordinate architects and technicians. Requires a bachelor's degree in architecture, an Architect license, and at least 4 years of experience in the field or in a related area. Familiar with a variety of the field's concepts, practices, and procedures. Relies on extensive experience and judgment to plan and accomplish goals. Performs a variety of complex tasks. Leads and directs the work of others. A wide degree of creativity and latitude is expected. Typically reports to a manager."
So, you are project manager and team leader and is responsible for all overseeing all aspects of projects. if you are 4 years out of school, are you ready for that??? NO??? me neither which is why you are probably more like an architect III at that stage in your career having only done a few years of co-op and post-grad work in the field.
therein lies the ceiling of the architecture profession in America throughout the latter half of the 20th Century. There are not as many divesified positions within the profession with little definition in most firms between someone with 10 years experience and one with 30 years. Once you reach the project manager stage (of which there are few in an office and therefore statistically harder to obtain without moving around considerably between firms) there you will stay.
Everyone else in your firm not a project manager is either a registered architect doing what an intern is doing but doing it better but not getting paid what the project manager is because his responsibility is lower....and plus, we graduate more 'soon to be architects' than we retire fully registered architects...so the field is saturated with interns...and the firms benefit from their higher experience but lower pay. its a cycle and if you like where you work and what you do, you will find it harder to obtain the position you may deserve....
so, i'm just saying that one should take the salarydotcom stats with a serious grain of salt.
This is true.
However, for me it doesn't matter, I'll make loads.
Plus I have NO desire to be stuck at a project architect for the rest of my life nor do I have any desire to be a registered architect with out any major title.
Rather my goal is to co-open my own firm before the age of 35 (I've got about 10 years post-graduating from UC to complete that). In fact, I have already began talks with 2 designers in their 40's that are considering preparing to make plans to open our own firm in Chicago soon after graduating from UC. True, salarydotcom may be over rating it, but I see their high range as being a realistic, if not low, goal for myself.
BTW, anyone know the quality of the MBA program at UC? Anyone know any architects that did dual M.Arch and MBA?
Well, then best of luck to you, beatledud. Be sure to keep us posted on your progress. Seems like the only thing you neglected to mention was your trophy-wife...is that job listed on salarydotcom?
there is no trophy-wife. With all the commitment I will be giving to my job, I won't be able to take care of a family. If I did marry, she would eventualy divorce me and take my money. Nope, $7 hookers are all I need. Ehr-go living in OTR.
beatle and iOFa, is there a chance that you guys could put summary sentences at the beginning of your posts? Perhaps an outline of main ideas as well? Thanks :o)
just kidding. BTW I'm all about starting a firm so perhaps we could plant the seeds of that idea and let them grow in the parking lot between our buildings, lol.
UC MBA=not so good--it's a useless degree for someone without business experience, anyway. My advice, wait until you have some laps under your belt before you start thinking about it--ask yourself whether you'll really need it. Average age in an MBA class is early thrities.
I have a BS in business economics, which I am pairing with an M Arch in hopes of starting a design-develop firm with my lady. MBA down the road, maybe, but IV only for that.
Beat--where did you do your BS Arch?
University of Minnesota
beatledud, i see i`ve started comparing more with the 2+. so you mean to say that it cud be an advantage for us with the 3+? especially with the IDP, right?
or why can`t the 2+ ppl earn theit IDP hours after school? er.. i cud sound a little dumb, i`m not really familiar with this.
moreover we pay the tution for an extra year don`t we?
frankly i was`nt even bothered about this when i applied.
wow! only 12- 14 selected? is that good? there seem to be more people in the 2+ working in 2 batches.
hope i get this thing outta my mind.
anyway, about your aprt (EM`s bldg?).. we`ll talk when time comes. but do save it for me till we decide.
and yeah i`ll take a look at the ncarb link soon. thanks.
You earn IDP hours when you've reached your third year in undergrad and start working for architect/design/construction firms (there is max hours you can register at places that don't deal with mainly architecture). You can ofcourse earn hours after you leave school (99% of people don't finish their hours while they're in school).
Is the 2+ or 3+ better? It's all how you look at it and where you're coming from.
2+ is MEANT for undergrad UC students (they ofcourse make exceptions). This is because of the co-op.
One could make the arguement that it isn't better. A 2 year program is better because then you can get out into the realy world sooner, start earning full IDP time sooner, make more money sooner, and get your licensing sooner...ofcourse all of this by about a year's time.
The arguement could also be made that the program is better than a standard 2 year. What seperates a good architect from a CAD monkey? The ability to design, and an extra year of training can only help that ability, right? Plus the co-op provides you with not only work experience, but multiple work experiences, anywhere in the world that you want. The firms are required to help you the best they can with earning IDP in the categories that you need (so if you're full on construction documents they aren't suppose to keep on working you in that area, it's an agreement with UC the firms have). It isn't as hard to find a firm as they have a HUGE list that only 40 students or so have to choose from each qtr. In the real world.....not that easy. Someone doesn't give you a list and says "pick one". You have to BEG, like I did.
As far as the tuition goes, yeah we have to pay extra. Keep in mind though that tuition is based on qtrs, and you don't work the same amount of qtrs each year. Go to UC's website, look at the M.Arch program and 3+ section, figure out the qtrs that you have class and the ones that you have co-op. Classes you can add as a qtr with tuition and fee payments. Co-Ops have a small fee of like $300 last I checked, plus you get payed regularly with them.
Check on resdidency tuition. I know for US residents, you can become an Ohio resident after a year and start to pay instate tuition afterwards...I don't know what the deal is if you're from India (that's where you said you were from, right?).
That's about it. Like I said, give Gordon a ring if you have any questions. Good luck.
sorry about the long post again wonderk :)
back to the salary discussion:
AM I reading this correctly iOFa? I am in a slightly different cost of living market where I reside but before up and leaving my last job, which most likely paid me a bit too much, I would say you are eating your hat and I am 2 years out of school. And I am not alone out here.
Granted, back in Ohio the salary would probably drop 10% automatically. However, I think salary has more to dow ith how a firm operates than experience level. I accidentally priced myself out of a really great job possibility not too long ago because I didn't realize they probably wanted to pay no more than 40k for me whereas at a different firm I have found that the number I have thrown out hasn't even ruffled a feather.
Bottom line, architects are underpaid as a profession, no big secret, and trying to get what one is worth is OK to my mind. WIth that said, the work is more important than the money for me.......
thanks again and good luck to you too.
aeaa, is that why you havent left your current firm.....ooohhhhhh burn!!!!!
oh snap.
aeaa--what kind of firm do you work for?
and would you say you are an 'architect v'?
um, monkeyboy, I did quit my last job.........and am now freelancing. Not sure what the burn is about?? More so since there is a disclaimer at the bottom of my last post. My last post was not me boasting at all, just adding info to the convo which was taking place.
At the moment I am working for a smaller firm that does high end residential work, both new build and interior, in and around the NYC area. I do not have any intention on staying here long term as it is not the type of architecture which interests me most. With that said not only is the job market slow in NYC at the moment (summer) but finding a good firm that is a good fit without knowing someone already on the inside is difficult in this city.
am I an architect v? I assume this is in regards to the links which were added previously which I have not looked at? I think I am considered a "junior architect". 2 years of fulltime, post grad work, and 2 or so years of intern work. Not yet an intermediate architect, another year and a 1/2 for that I think?? And I am not registered - hell I haven't even signed up for IDP!
OH BOY!
Don't rock the boat.
Rock the boat baby!
DON'T FUCKING ROCK THE BOAT!!
Tip that boat over!
aaaaaannnnd, that killed the thread. goodbye everybody.
Ha!
Well, if anyone is still reading, I just got my schedule for my first year of grad:
Structures Lecture 3 23ARCH377 Prof: Monroe
Structure/Environment/Construction Studio 1 23ARCH501 Prof: Bible
Environmental Technology 3 23ARCH687 Prof: Smith
Introduction to Programming 23SAID438 Prof: Burnham
Introduction to Co-Op:Architecture 36PD223 Prof: Evans
Oh no! That's terrible!
Just kidding. That's pretty darn close to a line-up I would have had. I don't know Prof. Monroe though.
be sure to ask Bruce Evans about his watercolors, Beatledud.
Don't know anyone except Bible, who I have now.
Bible, and the rest, good, bad? Crazy, fun, anal, give the dirt.
Bruce and his watercolors! Oh my god! That's hysterical.
Also ask about his son's wedding, LOL. He'll forget you even went on co-op.
Bible's awesome. Watch out for him after lunch though, lol. I'll tell you that one off the thread....
Now I'm giggling uncontrollably.
why does`nt anyone from UC post on the student blog?
five, tinydancer who else? tinydancer is long gone.
no, she's sitting next to me.
iOFa offered to send me a 6-pack every friday in exchange for me doing a UC blog--c'mon iOFa, you remember.
wait a sec........beatledud are you going for grad school?? OR are you a transfer student into the undergrad program?
You have 3 classes on your schedule that are a complete waste of your time and money if the former is the case. David freaking Lee Smith is teaching something beyond pre-school? are you kidding me, master of powerpoint? What I learned in that exact same class as a second year student = zero! And intro to co-op with Bruce Evans? Here is your intro to co-op. you get a job, you move, you show up at work, you work.....it's like THAT hard to get. BTW, he goes for the fishing talky talk as well. and programming?? PROGRAMMING??? oh for fuck's sake. I really hate to sound like a downer/cynic here but I am operating under the assumption that this is grad school you signed up for and that it is 2 years.........I was also under the impression that UC was re-vamping their entire cirriculum not just renaming courses for older students??? Not a single theory class? No history? No computer technologies? No research based classes? I would like to compare/contrast your schedule with someone in the MArch program at say SCI-Arch or Princeteon or georgia tech or Ohio State cause maybe it is just me but it sounds like you are caught in limbo between 2nd and 3rd year at an institition that is still stuck in the early 90's.........
Five...the offer stands. i'm a man of my word....but it had best be one fine blog because i don't buy cheap beer.
aeaa, although i agree with you to a point, i think that beatledud's schedule represents the extent of the 'catch up' classes offered within that grad program track. i may be incorrect on this though as they have re-titled many of the classes we took in undergrad since i left school. the curriculum for both programs are found here:
http://daap.uc.edu/program_pdf/said/MA_Science.pdf
http://daap.uc.edu/program_pdf/said/MA_Architecture.pdf
You can see that the MAA is geared towards Thesis the way we knew it (close anyway) and the MSA tries to build upon what we learned in our 6yrs into 4yrs with slightly less co-op then adding on heavy load of theory in the final 1.5 yrs plus some itteration of thesis. Again...this may be my naive look at the curriculum but this is how i see it. I suppose without looking at the list of profs teaching those additional such a courseload commensurate with a MSA degree.
Oh dear.
"Oh for fuck's sake...." Maybe this is all stuff that is req'd for the professional degree? It is a 3+ program.
Or maybe they are just making it up as they go?
aeaa-
I'm going into Grad school, 3+ program, and I did NOT do my undergrad at UC, I did it at U of Minnesota. And in some ways, yeah, I am kind of stuck between the two years. The studios are undergrad studios in a way, but they are taught seperately from the undergrads, all of us undergrads take it under a seperate instructor with a different curriculum. As far as some of the other truly undergrad classes, I guess they are classes they want students with degrees from different universities to take. After the first year, then they join us with the 2+ grad students who start our second year.
The main two points for taking the first, additional year as far as I know is as follows:
1. To take studios that focus on BOTH design and construction, and to concentrate on how to work them together simultaneously.
2. To be given 2 qtrs of Co-Op which UC undergrads received and most other istitutions did not offer.
The other classes are to strengthen structure knowledge, and to get us up to the 10 credit minimum. Also I think that UC believes their undergrad is better than mosts, and wants to make sure their grad students are at eye level with their graduating undergrads (maybe they're right, I don't know/care).
I know I did talk him out of some classes, as the first year of 3+ you're suppose to take 18 credits fall qtr and 17 credits sprint qtr.
You can see the schedule for 2,3,& 4 year students here:
http://www.daap.uc.edu/program_pdf/said/MA_Architecture.pdf
Oh, and here is my spring qtr schedule, just won't register it for a few months:
SEC Studio 2 23ARCH502 5
Structures 4 23ARCH677 3
Prof. Practice 23ARCH637 3
11 total credits
I have 15 credits this fall qtr, and only 11 credits spring qtr. Because of the Co-Op and their wavering of how well my degree prepared me for design with building structures, I don't quite qualify to be boosted up to 2+. Which is fine because of the four schools I applied to (U of Minnesota, U of Wisconsin, U of Virginia, and UC), everyone except U of VA let me in, and they all are 3 years...but UC I think was the best school and UC has 3 years but not as much physical months in school as UW or UofM.
So instead I'll take an easy first year at a new school/city, my first year right out of a 4 year intensive undergrad. Plus I get to have 2 really cool jobs in 2 places that I choose, make some cash and IDP hours, and UC is for the most part comping me for my first year. So what do I have to complain about?
Especialy since If I went to the UofM for grad school (my undergrad) I would have been there for 3 years also, payed about $25,000 more than UC (and that's with me getting in state at UofM) and not made as much money/experience due to lack of co-op.
right, what iOFa said, but in shorter time...I was typing as he posted his stuff
wait...you mean for once I was the concise one on Archinect??? Hell has frozen over, everyone!
Also, U of M....ALL THEORY. I talk to people at my work that have been doing this stuff for 20-30 years, and I can out talk them with theory. But they start asking me how to build a wall and I have no freaking idea. That's why I'm going to UC over UofM too.
Also, U of M....ALL THEORY. I talk to people at my work that have been doing this stuff for 20-30 years, and I can out talk them with theory. But they start asking me how to build a wall and I have no freaking idea. That's why I'm going to UC over UofM too. I nee practical shit I can use with my theory.
not to say theory isn't important, because it's what seperates the cad monkeys from the successful architects. I just need to know how to apply my theory in the real world, not studio.
Like I said, iOFa, you're on--blog entry quality bears directly on beer quality from here on out, so I'll need some cold smith's oatmeal stout and a liter of three philosophers lambic to get going...
I'll email Javier right now, and set this thing up. Of course, mine won't bang it out like some of the yalies et al, as I have yet to study in rome, work in NY, or do other high-minded archithings. We'll begin at the beginning, where I will log my thoughts on the exercise we are working on now, which is doing drawings of the 'space between' tango dancers, making a mold and casting it. Sha, zaam!
five...sounds like a plan...BUT...if we're going lambic, we're doing it my way with rasberry frambois....and if you expect 6, 750ml bottles a week you are high. ;-) Blog on.
Email to javier sent.
Oh this is very exciting. If you would like any of us to contribute by making up something pretentious about designing polycarbonate clouds for swedish design shows whilst riding our Vespas through the urban glory of Paris, please let us know.
;o)
PS. Would you please tell tiny that she needs to get back on here. I'm tired of being the only female voice of the 'Nati.
that`s great five. i`ll look out for it.
I'm here! Just been busy with all this school stuff guys!
It was great to meet you. Is that enough or do i need to write more/
more, who the hell are you? ;-)
She's your father.
She's your father.
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