Interesting - is the rational that you flip sheets in the direction of a book, therefore you would see the gridline bubble first on the right as you turn the page?
A related question, since I'm largely self-taught, do only residential design and have only seen or used gridlines a few times, but I can see them being helpful on my more complicated projects: where do you put them? Face of framing, center of framing, something else? Is there a rule for which direction gridlines get numbers vs. letters? Any other tips?
It depends. I use them mainly for inside (or out, depends) of foundation wall then c/l of beams on the simpler houses. All my high end stuff is full steel frame so in that case, all grids are to c/l of column.
I have usually done my own structural engineering, though I'm working with PEs more often these days, none have used gridlines, aside from one several years ago.
Jun 20, 24 11:08 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
Ahip, I never let the structural consultant set grids. I will always give them the layout prior to them starting their work. This way I am not stuck with weird dimensions (like 6124.8mm) because p.eng don't care.
I wouldn't bother to use a large pencil. A length of pipe would work though.
Jun 20, 24 1:21 pm ·
·
atelier nobody
I don't think they're usually necessary on bearing wall buildings, even pretty complex ones. They're really there to identify structural centerlines, so any grid lines that aren't on a structural centerline should just follow whatever standard you'd normally use for dimensions.
Delayed reply to WG - I put them at whatever makes sense for how the building will be constructed. Face of foundation obviously is a lot better than center of foundation wall. Face of framing is better than face of sheathing. Center of column is stupid because you can't actually measure to that, but it's better than the alternative. I usually do not let the structural engineers set the grids because I usually work on funny shaped buildings, so they wouldn't know where to put them.
My structural draftsman can handle the placement of a few gridlines. No need to gatekeep gridlines. Its not rocket science. Outside of foundation walls and center line of columns.
@woodguy, we’ve only done grid lines for residential when it’s new construction & if there’s a strong structural line that is in addition to the perimeter foundation
Relatively recent experiences make me want to use gridlines for residential. One was a frost protected slab on grade, where the contractor poured the concrete to what should have been the outside of 6" foam insulation around the foundation. Another started as a renovation and turned into a new home; the first and second floor bearing wall lines (which are mostly beams in this case) are not aligned, and the face of framing overhangs the foundation walls, both of which the structural engineer missed and nearly caused a disaster. I use Autocad LT; a BIM platform or more precise drafting might have avoided some of those problems, and on the foundation one the contractor just wasn't thinking ahead, but I think establishing gridlines will make it easier for everyone.
When I did large projects (schools, high ed, healthcare) our office standard was to use center line of structure. Makes sense with revit since if we have toc hah
Sorry… phone post. *** if we had to change wall type/siding/insulation/furring/gyp/etc our structural systems didn’t need to move
.
Jun 26, 24 12:17 am ·
·
proto
Two historical examples for grid relevance from the commercial world:
1) set CL of structure & the skin could adjust as the design & budget did; or
2) set the FAR/zoning/massing envelope and everything squeezes in at the expense of leasable space.
but for building trades, the GC wants the first crew on site to have the dumbest dimensions to work from (& this tracks downward in hierarchy for the trades to follow [sitework, foundations, frame/bearing walls, non-bearing walls, finishes, etc])
@woodguy, in addition to my post abv "& if there’s a strong structural line that is in addition to the perimeter foundation"; I am finding that special geometries often are better assisted by the clarity of a common reference line.
Those geometries could be unfamiliar high performance wall assemblies or just quirky design elements [intersecting diagonals or curves out in space, etc]
The US National CAD Standard says top & right, but I personally prefer left & bottom (English-speakers read left-to-right, top-to-bottom, so I like to place my notes to the top & right).
Top right is the standard I like, but we switch it up by project based on circumstances. I'd slightly disagree with arch anonymous, and say the only rule is clarity..... consistency within a project just happens to be a big part of that.
Right now I have a project where I'm gridding top left because I have an existing building on the right that I don't want my grid bubbles on top of. Also have some minor grids for the south most bay of the building on irregular intervals that I am opting to grid with short grids bubbled to the south. I think this makes for the clearest drawing in this case.
it’s all based off of when people read field copies of plans. Open up a physical plan set at your office and tell me where you want your grid lines if you’re trying to find your bearings on a project you’ve never seen before in your life.
Gridline Labelling Standards
The only rule is consistency.
Top and Right
Interesting - is the rational that you flip sheets in the direction of a book, therefore you would see the gridline bubble first on the right as you turn the page?
A related question, since I'm largely self-taught, do only residential design and have only seen or used gridlines a few times, but I can see them being helpful on my more complicated projects: where do you put them? Face of framing, center of framing, something else? Is there a rule for which direction gridlines get numbers vs. letters? Any other tips?
It depends. I use them mainly for inside (or out, depends) of foundation wall then c/l of beams on the simpler houses. All my high end stuff is full steel frame so in that case, all grids are to c/l of column.
Outside of foundation makes sense to me; I typically align face of framing with face of foundation.
We always let our structural consultants set the gridlines. They always do outside of foundation and center of columns / piers
We too have our structural engineer set the gridlines.
We put bubbles on each side of the gridlines.
I have usually done my own structural engineering, though I'm working with PEs more often these days, none have used gridlines, aside from one several years ago.
Ahip, I never let the structural consultant set grids. I will always give them the layout prior to them starting their work. This way I am not stuck with weird dimensions (like 6124.8mm) because p.eng don't care.
NS - My structural team is in house, if one of them had a dimension like that I would beat him with my freakishly large Wooden John Deere pencil
I wouldn't bother to use a large pencil. A length of pipe would work though.
I don't think they're usually necessary on bearing wall buildings, even pretty complex ones. They're really there to identify structural centerlines, so any grid lines that aren't on a structural centerline should just follow whatever standard you'd normally use for dimensions.
Delayed reply to WG - I put them at whatever makes sense for how the building will be constructed. Face of foundation obviously is a lot better than center of foundation wall. Face of framing is better than face of sheathing. Center of column is stupid because you can't actually measure to that, but it's better than the alternative. I usually do not let the structural engineers set the grids because I usually work on funny shaped buildings, so they wouldn't know where to put them.
Damn you guys let your SE set the gridlines? I have never heard of that. Absolutely would not fly in my world.
My structural draftsman can handle the placement of a few gridlines. No need to gatekeep gridlines. Its not rocket science. Outside of foundation walls and center line of columns.
@woodguy, we’ve only done grid lines for residential when it’s new construction & if there’s a strong structural line that is in addition to the perimeter foundation
Relatively recent experiences make me want to use gridlines for residential. One was a frost protected slab on grade, where the contractor poured the concrete to what should have been the outside of 6" foam insulation around the foundation. Another started as a renovation and turned into a new home; the first and second floor bearing wall lines (which are mostly beams in this case) are not aligned, and the face of framing overhangs the foundation walls, both of which the structural engineer missed and nearly caused a disaster. I use Autocad LT; a BIM platform or more precise drafting might have avoided some of those problems, and on the foundation one the contractor just wasn't thinking ahead, but I think establishing gridlines will make it easier for everyone.
^grid lines are you friend.
When I did large projects (schools, high ed, healthcare) our office standard was to use center line of structure. Makes sense with revit since if we have toc hah
Sorry… phone post. *** if we had to change wall type/siding/insulation/furring/gyp/etc our structural systems didn’t need to move
.
Two historical examples for grid relevance from the commercial world:
1) set CL of structure & the skin could adjust as the design & budget did; or
2) set the FAR/zoning/massing envelope and everything squeezes in at the expense of leasable space.
but for building trades, the GC wants the first crew on site to have the dumbest dimensions to work from (& this tracks downward in hierarchy for the trades to follow [sitework, foundations, frame/bearing walls, non-bearing walls, finishes, etc])
@woodguy, in addition to my post abv "& if there’s a strong structural line that is in addition to the perimeter foundation"; I am finding that special geometries often are better assisted by the clarity of a common reference line.
Those geometries could be unfamiliar high performance wall assemblies or just quirky design elements [intersecting diagonals or curves out in space, etc]
top left is 01/A but I’ll change depending on project.
The US National CAD Standard says top & right, but I personally prefer left & bottom (English-speakers read left-to-right, top-to-bottom, so I like to place my notes to the top & right).
Top right is the standard I like, but we switch it up by project based on circumstances. I'd slightly disagree with arch anonymous, and say the only rule is clarity..... consistency within a project just happens to be a big part of that.
Right now I have a project where I'm gridding top left because I have an existing building on the right that I don't want my grid bubbles on top of. Also have some minor grids for the south most bay of the building on irregular intervals that I am opting to grid with short grids bubbled to the south. I think this makes for the clearest drawing in this case.
it’s all based off of when people read field copies of plans. Open up a physical plan set at your office and tell me where you want your grid lines if you’re trying to find your bearings on a project you’ve never seen before in your life.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.