I am having a hard time making a choice between two Architectural Internship Positions at these corporations. Already did interviews. If everything pans out well I’m stuck on who to choose? Also I’m a M. Arch candidate with an expected graduation of fall 2024
Ignore the pay question, internships aren't about pay. The difference of $5k you make over the summer will not change your life, but the trajectory they set you on will.
Which career are you more interested in? Traditional arch or deviating into something adjacent? Personally I would vote Disney, as it would stand out on a future application. The Gensler internship will teach you strong fundamentals, but is also quite common.
I think both will pay a competitive wage ... It's Gensler and Disney and not some starchitect!
Mar 12, 24 9:16 am ·
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joseffischer
my experience is that often the pay disparities even between 2 paying gigs is pretty representative of the opportunities and career trajectories you will find at the different firms. Therefore, pay becomes a good indicator.
Clearly, I'm in the minority. I'm not advocating you to work for free, never do that. But as long as you are getting paid for your work, what you learn and connections you make during your summer internship will far outweigh the few thousand dollars you could have earned at a higher paying internship.
The reality is, you're both right (and I'm righter). It can be both. A difference of a few thousand dollars means nothing over a career, but the opportunities that open up could make a future difference to the tune of hundreds of thousands, not to mention career satisfaction. And as the guy who does the hiring, I'm giving the Disney employee an interview over the Gensler employee 100 times out of 100, all else being relatively equal. See Wood Guy's response below - he gets it.
Both are big names so it probably doesn't make a big difference. Which one appeals to you more? Which one seemed to have happier people involved? Does one offer better pay than the other? Would your roles at both be similar?
I’m not worried about the pay as much from either with Disney I’m confident I can get the opportunity again with Gensler I’m not so confident as I know this may be my one and only firm which such recognition globally. Whereas Disney is also great as well. I’m not worried about pay. The pay will come. I’m worried about experience and career advancement and the betterment of myself in the industry.
Disney all day long. It's a world-famous and influential organization. Gensler is just a business. And you can literally get a job at Gensler anytime with Disney on your resume.
Snobs in academia and star firms will turn up their noses at both, but they will definitely want to hear all about what it's like at Disney. What ever you did at Gensler, not so much.
Of course Disney is a business too, but at its best, Disney moves the cultural and artistic needle in ways Gensler's work never has and probably never will. And I don't mean that in a pejorative way. Gensler has their corporate megafirm shit figured out. But I do suspect that the level of creativity is much higher at Disney than at Gensler.
Congratulations on the disney offer. I tried to get into their summer work program during undergrad and never heard back. Its a very rare opportunity, and given the two options, i'd personally go there without a second thought. Gensler is massive, and generally i think its safe to assume that if you received a job offer there once, you can likely get one in the future. Disney, not so much.
Totally. Provided you turn them down in a polite and professional manner, Gensler will be open to you in the future. They also have a long-standing "boomerang" tradition of people leaving to work at other firms and then returning.
I was rejected for numerous years from Gensler, whereas Disney I’ve landed multiple interviews it’s just the timing isn’t right and they wanted me to work into the school semester which is my graduating semester which I could not do
Mar 12, 24 12:36 pm ·
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reallynotmyname
Rejected by Gensler in the past, but not now? That would give me pause. I've known quite a few talented women who ran into a surprising amount of gender bias at Gensler. It's so big that there's pockets of bad actors present in management ranks. Your chances of success at Gensler will vary widely depending on what office and studio you end up in.
Are the offers you are weighing for full-time permanent jobs after you graduate? I think a lot of people on here are hearing "internship" and thinking summer or short-term work.
Having transitioned from architecture the theme park design back to architecture, I think I am qualified to talk about this. First of all, yeah do not take an unpaid internship both of these firms have plenty of moolah to spare.
As for Disney vs Gensler, the "mouse" will definitely set your resume apart, and the big advantage of imagineering is that you will meet a lot of cool people of different disciplines (artists, writers, show lighting, ride engineering etc) while there, but at Gensler you will likely meet architects, interior designers etc.
Also, there is a lot of synergy between the Big G and Big D these days. Just be careful of how long you want to spend at Disney, as people tend to pigeonhole others in this business quite a bit.
I’ve had to turn down Disney in the past as well due to them wanting me to work during the semester which I can not as well as not pushing my graduation date back which they have asked me to do which I politely denied
Mar 12, 24 1:55 pm ·
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sameolddoctor
Yeah, never respect a firm that does not respect you. I do know what WDI can be quite pushy when hiring people and can fire en masse too
It could. Then again it's probably not going to be a once in a lifetime position. The OP already said they've had to turn down a position at Disney and they have another opportunity at the place. I've been offered architectural intern positions at Disney twice. These weren't 'imaginers' type positions, just normal architecture. The pay wasn't enough and the NDA / no credit for work were dealbreakers for me.
Disney is going to be a better resume item than Gensler (assuming this is somehow connected to imagineering/parks/experience, and not retail). Like another poster said, if you've got a Disney internship on your resume, you can use that to get a job at Gensler later if that's what you really want to do. It doesn't work the other way around.
Around 98% of architects working for Disney are not in the Imagineering / parks experience areas. The vast majority work in the facilities and planning departments.
another way of looking at this is whether you'd rather start your career working for the people who design buildings, or for the people who hire the people who design buildings.
If you can afford to push your graduation date back I would consider it -- a good internship is more useful to you long term than graduating "on time." (Within reason, ofc).
I agree with SOD. One caveat; It wouldn't be an internship with the Imagineering team. You'd probably be with the facilities and planning departments. That's where 98% of all Disney architects work.
I’m working on a thesis and it’s a long time coming and I have sacrificed my mental health etc it’s never that deep to prolong school I’m sorry but no respectfully
probably don't sacrifice your mental health. you might not get it back. i don't think i'll get mine back. i worked with a girl who always dreamed of working with disney (arch intern at an office i worked at) and she got her dream. from what i've heard their internship program is well organized and very rewarding. they make a point to expose people to different things rather than sitting in a basement drawing toilet details.
Disney's intern program is very well organized. You'll get to see a lot of interesting finished projects / designs you're not working on. You'll still be doing 'toilet details' though. Nothing wrong with that.
smaarch's comment only shows she/he is
talking out of their rear.
The companies are very different. I'd never want to work for either of them but they are very different. I say this as someone's who's had offers to work for both.
Turning down Gensler and moving to Europe was one of the best decisions I made in the course of my architectural career.
When in Europe, I attended a school where our ex-OMA instructors would use the term 'Disneyland' in a derogatory manner during crits involving masterplan design.
In my humble opinion if one understands what architecture is really about, they wouldn't want to work at either of the two companies, as correctly mentioned above.
However, I gather that you are more invested in the business of architecture as opposed to its quality.
lol. No idea what Robhaw's work looks like, but Disney has pretty high standards. Some of the builders we used to work with regularly also worked for Disney doing work in the park. Talking with them the standards are very high and the work was extremely professional, not unlike what might be expected with star architecture. No shortcuts allowed or expected. No idea what happens outside the park, but I would be surprised if the culture was that different from one section to another. It would take a lot of effort to be professional in one area and a flybynight operator in the other...
As for the OP's question, as long as you are professional offices won't take it personal if you decline an offer.
Did both companies extend offers? Or you just have completed the interviews?
Both are great opportunities. One internship is not going to drastically change the course of your career. If you are fortunate to get offers from both, just do the one you think will be more fun and more aligned with what you like doing. Dont overthink it.
and don’t listen to these guys obsessing over pay. Times have changed and unpaid internships are fewer and far between, especially at these large companies you are interested in.
Unpaid and underpaid summer internships are not few and far between at large firms in the US. I know of a dozen large firms that offer summer internships at federal minimal wage and don't pay overtime. While pay shouldn't be the defining factor for a summer internship, if you have to take out a loan to live while working you need to really think things over.
Mar 13, 24 1:21 pm ·
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gwharton
The only firms that still try to play games with intern pay are starchitects who think they are doing everyone a favor by simply existing and single-shingles who are barely able to pay themselves, let alone anyone else. Everyone else pays entry-level scale. There's just way too much legal risk to do otherwise these days.
The internal "news" about this is that there was a switcheroo - Barbara Bouza from Gensler went to WDI and Bob went to Gensler. WDI regularly sends a lot of work to Gensler.
Is this a temporary position or permanent one? Did you discuss on the interview about returning to work permanently after graduation? If the internship is only a few month then that position barely matters. If it is a permanent position then you do need to consider the work you will be involved and the trajectory of your career. Honestly these firms are so big. You don't even know which studio and which boss you will get.
if you want to do something somewhat interesting for a few years try disney out. go to gensler if you want to start a typical architectural career and get a head start on being well rounded but not uniquely skilled.
I have a friend who did his master's thesis on Disneyland. Specifically the infrastructure behind and under everything. It's fascinating. He wanted to work there but it never happened (at least not yet).
Mar 16, 24 4:04 pm ·
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Gensler or Disney
I am having a hard time making a choice between two Architectural Internship Positions at these corporations. Already did interviews. If everything pans out well I’m stuck on who to choose? Also I’m a M. Arch candidate with an expected graduation of fall 2024
what’s the pay?
Ignore the pay question, internships aren't about pay. The difference of $5k you make over the summer will not change your life, but the trajectory they set you on will.
Which career are you more interested in? Traditional arch or deviating into something adjacent? Personally I would vote Disney, as it would stand out on a future application. The Gensler internship will teach you strong fundamentals, but is also quite common.
It is if it's an unpaid slave gig.
I think both will pay a competitive wage ... It's Gensler and Disney and not some starchitect!
my experience is that often the pay disparities even between 2 paying gigs is pretty representative of the opportunities and career trajectories you will find at the different firms. Therefore, pay becomes a good indicator.
The_crow wrote:
"Ignore the pay question, internships aren't about pay."
That's ignorant and foolish.
Clearly, I'm in the minority. I'm not advocating you to work for free, never do that. But as long as you are getting paid for your work, what you learn and connections you make during your summer internship will far outweigh the few thousand dollars you could have earned at a higher paying internship.
The reality is, you're both right (and I'm righter). It can be both. A difference of a few thousand dollars means nothing over a career, but the opportunities that open up could make a future difference to the tune of hundreds of thousands, not to mention career satisfaction. And as the guy who does the hiring, I'm giving the Disney employee an interview over the Gensler employee 100 times out of 100, all else being relatively equal. See Wood Guy's response below - he gets it.
Exactly BB. The pay doesn't matter if the difference is a small amount.
Now if one wanted to pay you below minimum wage . . . .
Both are big names so it probably doesn't make a big difference. Which one appeals to you more? Which one seemed to have happier people involved? Does one offer better pay than the other? Would your roles at both be similar?
I’m not worried about the pay as much from either with Disney I’m confident I can get the opportunity again with Gensler I’m not so confident as I know this may be my one and only firm which such recognition globally. Whereas Disney is also great as well. I’m not worried about pay. The pay will come. I’m worried about experience and career advancement and the betterment of myself in the industry.
Disney all day long. It's a world-famous and influential organization. Gensler is just a business. And you can literally get a job at Gensler anytime with Disney on your resume.
Snobs in academia and star firms will turn up their noses at both, but they will definitely want to hear all about what it's like at Disney. What ever you did at Gensler, not so much.
Gensler is just a business, but Disney is not? lol
Of course Disney is a business too, but at its best, Disney moves the cultural and artistic needle in ways Gensler's work never has and probably never will. And I don't mean that in a pejorative way. Gensler has their corporate megafirm shit figured out. But I do suspect that the level of creativity is much higher at Disney than at Gensler.
Iim not worried about pay
Must be nice not to have to worry about making a living.
Just don't accept unpaid internships.
I actually do have to worry about making a living and I would be take an unpaid internship period.
There is nothing worse than unpaid interships. It's a black mark on your CV. Anyone who says it's an investment is an idiot.
Never take an unpaid internship. Ever.
Congratulations on the disney offer. I tried to get into their summer work program during undergrad and never heard back. Its a very rare opportunity, and given the two options, i'd personally go there without a second thought. Gensler is massive, and generally i think its safe to assume that if you received a job offer there once, you can likely get one in the future. Disney, not so much.
Totally. Provided you turn them down in a polite and professional manner, Gensler will be open to you in the future. They also have a long-standing "boomerang" tradition of people leaving to work at other firms and then returning.
I was rejected for numerous years from Gensler, whereas Disney I’ve landed multiple interviews it’s just the timing isn’t right and they wanted me to work into the school semester which is my graduating semester which I could not do
Rejected by Gensler in the past, but not now? That would give me pause. I've known quite a few talented women who ran into a surprising amount of gender bias at Gensler. It's so big that there's pockets of bad actors present in management ranks. Your chances of success at Gensler will vary widely depending on what office and studio you end up in.
also I meant I would NEVER and have NEVER taken an unpaid internship ever
Are the offers you are weighing for full-time permanent jobs after you graduate? I think a lot of people on here are hearing "internship" and thinking summer or short-term work.
Having transitioned from architecture the theme park design back to architecture, I think I am qualified to talk about this. First of all, yeah do not take an unpaid internship both of these firms have plenty of moolah to spare.
As for Disney vs Gensler, the "mouse" will definitely set your resume apart, and the big advantage of imagineering is that you will meet a lot of cool people of different disciplines (artists, writers, show lighting, ride engineering etc) while there, but at Gensler you will likely meet architects, interior designers etc.
Also, there is a lot of synergy between the Big G and Big D these days. Just be careful of how long you want to spend at Disney, as people tend to pigeonhole others in this business quite a bit.
Interesting, I always would have assumed Disney would be more open to breadth of creative background and avoid pigeonholing on that basis?
I’ve had to turn down Disney in the past as well due to them wanting me to work during the semester which I can not as well as not pushing my graduation date back which they have asked me to do which I politely denied
Yeah, never respect a firm that does not respect you. I do know what WDI can be quite pushy when hiring people and can fire en masse too
Then again, at Disney you are not allowed to use anything you've done in your portfolio.
True, but its definitely a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity which could be taken benefit of at the starting of the career
It could. Then again it's probably not going to be a once in a lifetime position. The OP already said they've had to turn down a position at Disney and they have another opportunity at the place. I've been offered architectural intern positions at Disney twice. These weren't 'imaginers' type positions, just normal architecture. The pay wasn't enough and the NDA / no credit for work were dealbreakers for me.
Yeah the facilities architecture can be mind numbingly boring and repressive, i agree
For me the pay was the 'last straw' after having to live in Florida. ;)
I’m just worried about the reaction to turning down one and not the other if that’s makes sense I know it may be inevitable but still
Disney is going to be a better resume item than Gensler (assuming this is somehow connected to imagineering/parks/experience, and not retail). Like another poster said, if you've got a Disney internship on your resume, you can use that to get a job at Gensler later if that's what you really want to do. It doesn't work the other way around.
Around 98% of architects working for Disney are not in the Imagineering / parks experience areas. The vast majority work in the facilities and planning departments.
another way of looking at this is whether you'd rather start your career working for the people who design buildings, or for the people who hire the people who design buildings.
If you can afford to push your graduation date back I would consider it -- a good internship is more useful to you long term than graduating "on time." (Within reason, ofc).
Getting an internship at imagineering is not worth extending school lol. Its a job after all.
I agree with SOD. One caveat; It wouldn't be an internship with the Imagineering team. You'd probably be with the facilities and planning departments. That's where 98% of all Disney architects work.
I’m working on a thesis and it’s a long time coming and I have sacrificed my mental health etc it’s never that deep to prolong school I’m sorry but no respectfully
probably don't sacrifice your mental health. you might not get it back. i don't think i'll get mine back. i worked with a girl who always dreamed of working with disney (arch intern at an office i worked at) and she got her dream. from what i've heard their internship program is well organized and very rewarding. they make a point to expose people to different things rather than sitting in a basement drawing toilet details.
Disney's intern program is very well organized. You'll get to see a lot of interesting finished projects / designs you're not working on. You'll still be doing 'toilet details' though. Nothing wrong with that.
Architecturally - Aren't Gensler and Disney about the same thing?
.....Personally I'd never choose either - never have and never will.
That’s YOUR choice. And that’s okay. You’d also have to be chosen by them even if you did have them as your choices.
...how are they the same thing ...
Exactly lol people just say anything
smaarch's comment only shows she/he is talking out of their rear.
The companies are very different. I'd never want to work for either of them but they are very different. I say this as someone's who's had offers to work for both.
Unfortunately for you I was speaking about Architecture....with a capital A
Why is it unfortunate for me? Just like you, I've never made capital A architecture. I have made some aRCHITECTURE though. ;)
Still doesn't change the fact that Gensler and Disney are very different firms.
You don't know me or my work,
I do know you and your work. You've posted you real name here before and you have a website.
a
Turning down Gensler and moving to Europe was one of the best decisions I made in the course of my architectural career.
When in Europe, I attended a school where our ex-OMA instructors would use the term 'Disneyland' in a derogatory manner during crits involving masterplan design.
In my humble opinion if one understands what architecture is really about, they wouldn't want to work at either of the two companies, as correctly mentioned above.
However, I gather that you are more invested in the business of architecture as opposed to its quality.
In this case, we may not need to advise you.
Someone just wrote what i’m thinking
You seem like the 1% of architecture .... hope you dont get knocked down
robhaw - I've seen your work. I wouldn't make comments like that if I were you.
lol. No idea what Robhaw's work looks like, but Disney has pretty high standards. Some of the builders we used to work with regularly also worked for Disney doing work in the park. Talking with them the standards are very high and the work was extremely professional, not unlike what might be expected with star architecture. No shortcuts allowed or expected. No idea what happens outside the park, but I would be surprised if the culture was that different from one section to another. It would take a lot of effort to be professional in one area and a flybynight operator in the other...
As for the OP's question, as long as you are professional offices won't take it personal if you decline an offer.
Did both companies extend offers? Or you just have completed the interviews?
Both are great opportunities. One internship is not going to drastically change the course of your career. If you are fortunate to get offers from both, just do the one you think will be more fun and more aligned with what you like doing. Dont overthink it.
and don’t listen to these guys obsessing over pay. Times have changed and unpaid internships are fewer and far between, especially at these large companies you are interested in.
Unpaid and underpaid summer internships are not few and far between at large firms in the US. I know of a dozen large firms that offer summer internships at federal minimal wage and don't pay overtime. While pay shouldn't be the defining factor for a summer internship, if you have to take out a loan to live while working you need to really think things over.
The only firms that still try to play games with intern pay are starchitects who think they are doing everyone a favor by simply existing and single-shingles who are barely able to pay themselves, let alone anyone else. Everyone else pays entry-level scale. There's just way too much legal risk to do otherwise these days.
I mostly agree. I know of a few large, non starchitect firms in Denver that play games with summer intern pay.
this article should tell you something https://archinect.com/news/art...
It really doesn't tell you anything other than a non-architect left a job after 30 years. None of us know the exact reasons why.
The internal "news" about this is that there was a switcheroo - Barbara Bouza from Gensler went to WDI and Bob went to Gensler. WDI regularly sends a lot of work to Gensler.
well I’m wondering if I take one over the other if it’s possible to do the other in the near future since they overlap as far as work wise a lot
No, since they do a lot of work with each other, going to either one will be beneficial for the other...
Is this a temporary position or permanent one? Did you discuss on the interview about returning to work permanently after graduation? If the internship is only a few month then that position barely matters. If it is a permanent position then you do need to consider the work you will be involved and the trajectory of your career. Honestly these firms are so big. You don't even know which studio and which boss you will get.
one is for 3months and the other could possibly be for 6 months maybe
if you want to do something somewhat interesting for a few years try disney out. go to gensler if you want to start a typical architectural career and get a head start on being well rounded but not uniquely skilled.
I have a friend who did his master's thesis on Disneyland. Specifically the infrastructure behind and under everything. It's fascinating. He wanted to work there but it never happened (at least not yet).
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