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The University of Pennsylvania

Volunteer

Looks like Penn will have to chose between keeping a totally clueless ultra-liberal female president or lose a $100 million dollar donation from an alum. The Penn President seems to not have the first clue as to what criminal "assault" means. When their Jewish, or por-Jewish, students were threatened with credible death or injury threats by their pro-Palestine students the Jewish students sustained an assault, which is a felony. Whether of not any blows were made is not relevant. Penn's board is having an emergency meeting today, most likely to fire the President if they can't twist her arm to resign beforehand. These people prattle on about "social justice" yet won't left a finger to protect their students against death threats. 

 
Dec 8, 23 9:34 am
Non Sequitur

Don't think it's the school's president here which is the clueless one.


Dec 8, 23 9:42 am  · 
6  · 
ShakeyDeal
Remember when diversity, equity, and inclusion sounded so humanitarian?
Dec 8, 23 9:56 am  · 
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gwharton

Most big grifts do start out with attractive-sounding lures, yes.

Dec 8, 23 11:53 am  · 
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☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

Death Threats

The Daily Pennsylvanian spoke with several Penn community members who have received threats to their personal safety via email and social media from undisclosed individuals after they publicly voiced their support of Palestinians. These threats come after recent demonstrations held on campus over the last two weeks in solidarity with Palestinians on Oct. 16Oct. 18, and Oct. 25

A Penn professor who spoke at one of the pro-Palestinian rallies on Penn's campus, who was granted anonymity due to fear of retaliation, told the DP she had received a violent death threat and multiple harassing messages via email. She said she subsequently reported these threats to members of the Penn administration but did not receive messaging from higher-level administrators. 

These death threats don't matter. Got it.


Dec 8, 23 12:14 pm  · 
3  · 
☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

These death threats don't also come with a $100 million bribe.

Got it.

Dec 8, 23 12:15 pm  · 
4  · 
square.

the culture wars just escalated exponentially... we're so screwed.

Dec 8, 23 12:23 pm  · 
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Non Sequitur

I kid you not, I received an email from my son's daycare stating that they (the teaching staff) have had to intervene between certain groups of children because they are targeting each other based on the current political conflict. It's a public school (in canada, so far far better than your typ usa public) and in the capital so there is a very large portion of foreign students and even refugees. The daycare's note ended with a warning that they will talk to the parents if they don't talk to their kids.

Dec 8, 23 12:35 pm  · 
 ·  1
square.

thumbs down for the nutty state of politics and society right now.

Dec 8, 23 12:38 pm  · 
6  · 
Non Sequitur

That email I reference was sent yesterday.

Dec 8, 23 12:41 pm  · 
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reallynotmyname

The ivies have accomplished little in the past century to justify their outsize level of influence and prestige within USA society.

Dec 8, 23 4:55 pm  · 
3  · 
☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

Prestige? To the Elites, not to people at large.

Dec 8, 23 5:13 pm  · 
2  · 
natematt

Are you suggesting the average person is not substantially more impressed by a Harvard degree than… Idk, a Kansas State degree?

Dec 9, 23 7:47 pm  · 
1  · 
☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

Why yes, yes I am. The ruling class are the ones that care. Ask middle America if they know what the Skull and Bones Society is, then you'll have your answer.

Dec 9, 23 8:52 pm  · 
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natematt

Why would I do that, when I could just ask people about their perception of a Harvard degree and get a very clear answer?

Dec 10, 23 3:08 pm  · 
1  · 
sameolddoctor

Yes, it is 3 Israeli kids that were shot at recently and one of whom is paralyzed for the rest of their lives. Oh no wait, they were Palestinian.

"Looks like Penn will have to chose between keeping a totally clueless ultra-liberal female president or lose a $100 million dollar donation from an alum."

Policing free speech with money -- totally from the playbook of fascists.

Dec 8, 23 5:00 pm  · 
5  · 
sameolddoctor

Volunteer = typical Israel supporter (Shout at the top of your voice citing baseless facts and then disappear when real logic comes into the conversation.)

That is what his leaders like Netanyahu, Regev etc are also doing. Too bad the US has become puppets to these egomaniacs.

Dec 8, 23 7:15 pm  · 
3  · 
ivanmillya

On the contrary, the United States has been deeply involved in Israel's genocide of Palestine since at least the Nakba.

Dec 8, 23 8:39 pm  · 
3  · 
____

Hypothetical question. A little off topic.


If someone ....maybe I don't know....let's just say a political leader used mob speak on a daily basis for years on a social platform to intimidate their perceived enemies - do you think that would contribute to a belief in using violence to solve political disagreements?


What if this "leader" was enabled by others in the same party?


Would that make a difference?


Just some random thoughts. I don't know why they came to mind.

Dec 8, 23 7:37 pm  · 
1  · 
ivanmillya

Use your big boy words here. We all know you mean Donald Trump, so what exactly are you trying to connect here? That somehow we're all "antisemitic" because we're all secretly simps for Trump? I'm curious as to what your argument is here.

Dec 8, 23 8:47 pm  · 
2  · 
____

Of course not. It is a sarcastic comment aimed at the obvious hypocrisy and cluelessness of the OP. Good grief. It was literally dripping with venom.

Dec 8, 23 10:37 pm  · 
1  · 
____

I hate this shit. During the Iraq war it was either you are for us or against us. We already have had this conversation. Pick a side. Ok I will pick a side. The side that is for a ceasefire. The side that is against senseless killing.

Dec 8, 23 11:03 pm  · 
3  · 
Volunteer

"If someone ....maybe I don't know....let's just say a political leader used mob speak on a daily basis for years on a social platform to intimidate their perceived enemies - do you think that would contribute to a belief in using violence to solve political disagreements?"

Well, there is Joe Biden telling a group of African-Americans that his opponent will "put you all back into chains". Class act there from Biden. 

Dec 9, 23 6:37 am  · 
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☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

Again with the duplicitous statement. I'm not here to defend Genocide Joe, but he said that over a decade ago. As for Trump, he said he'd be a dictator on day one.

Dec 9, 23 9:13 am  · 
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☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

Yet still nothing from Volunteer on the death threats, doxxing, and AIPAC/ADL quelling of free speech that is causing people to lose their jobs because of their support for Palestinian people.

Free Speech as long as it supports genocide.

Got. It. 

Dec 9, 23 9:16 am  · 
3  · 
Volunteer

B3, I don't think anyone should be receiving death threats. Such threats are felonies and should be prosecuted. That means Jewish supporters should not be receiving death threats from Palestine supporters, and Palestine supporters should not be receiving death threats from Jewish supporters. Absent death and physical injury threats both sides can say whatever they want as far as I am concerned. 

Dec 9, 23 10:23 am  · 
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ivanmillya

You keep saying "Jewish" and "Pro-Jewish" when talking about Israel and Zionism;

and while I do think it's important that we recognize there is a very real problem of antisemitic people co-opting the current genocide going on against Palestinians in order to spread anti-Jewish sentiments; 

it's also important to recognize that a large majority of the support of Palestinians is not in any way affiliated with antisemitism, and to suggest that it is—or that violence being committed against Jewish students must be perpetrated by Palestinian supporters—both downplays the very real antisemitism that exists, and is also extraordinarily Islamophobic.

Dec 9, 23 10:36 am  · 
3  · 
☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

Volunteer, I don't believe you. I said what I said. You posted this thread, presumably based on your having picked a side. You provide zero evidence that this occurred, zero. Our government has passed a resolution equating anti-zionism with anti-semitism, even when it's obvious that JVP and other orthodox Jewish people are against this genocide. Freedom of dissent now comes with a label of hate. Intifada is not a call for genocide. From The River to The Sea is not a call for genocide. If these so called "students" are afraid to hear that language, then too bad.

So explain to me something, when trans people talk about the violence they've received, due to people like Chappelle, Jordan Peterson and others, they're told to suck it, stop being snowflakes, stop cancel culture, but on this particular topic; Stopppppppppp, your words are killing me.

Dec 9, 23 11:36 am  · 
1  · 
Volunteer

You are not making any sense (to me at least). Death threats are a felony and should be prosecuted. If the Penn Jewish supporters made or are making death or physical threats against the Palestine supporters then they should be prosecuted. How clearer can I be? The three university Presidents made total asses out of themselves. A death threat is not "context related". 

Dec 9, 23 11:54 am  · 
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☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

You've provided no evidence this is happening, nor it has anything to do with Pro-Palestine efforts. Did you just forget that we were punching Nazis for the past 70 years, and specifically since Trump gave them a green light?

What the fucking hell are you even going on about??

Stop. Being. A. Cunt.

Dec 9, 23 12:12 pm  · 
1  · 
Frankroidlite

And just like that they support free speech on college campuses again.  Ain’t that cute after years of screaming about micro aggressions and banning words or concepts in the name of safety and that not using correct pronouns was a form of violence and certain words or criticisms against ideas being forms of violence.  Just unreal how self delusional folks can be.  I’m for absolute free speech then and now.  Direct Threats are a different thing, but the same folks now lamenting about Jewish students feeling unsafe have been blurring the lines between speech and assault for the last several years. 

Dec 9, 23 1:58 pm  · 
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Frankroidlite

The apparatus is now being used against its creators.

Dec 9, 23 2:01 pm  · 
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☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

That's the game, right? Curate a diatribe about elite institutions and their cancel culture, then argue that these same institutions are practicing it enough.

If a crime has been committed, then bring charges, but something tells me that the "crime" as such isn't one under the law, or we'd see it in the news all fucking day long. Second, as I noted above; prove it has any connection to peace and ceasefire activists.

Prove it.

Dec 9, 23 2:04 pm  · 
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Frankroidlite

If the left didn’t abandon their support of free speech in exchange for this unstable weapon they’ve been wielding against political opponents they would have a solid and consistent intellectual and philosophical footing to stand on. I am 100% in support of free speech no matter who it upsets. Doesn’t mean that I agree with what’s being said. I may even detest what’s being said, but I understand the dangers of limiting free speech in our culture. Are you in favor of free speech?

Dec 9, 23 2:23 pm  · 
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Frankroidlite

absolute free speech that’s is. (Because that is the only way that it actually matters)

Dec 9, 23 2:25 pm  · 
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☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

I'm in favor of free speech. I'm not in favor of anti-semites teaching hate, or racists, misogynists, or homophobes teaching hate either. Are you? Or, do you like most, believe while speech, shall not restricted by a government, also has consequences? Do you believe in equating anti-zionism with anti-semitism? Does teaching that what is occurring in Gaza and the West Bank, rise to the level of hate speech?

Dec 9, 23 2:52 pm  · 
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Frankroidlite

I support everyones right to free speech, including those marching in support of Gaza, and those marching in support of Israel.

Dec 9, 23 3:08 pm  · 
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Frankroidlite

To your question, definitely government shouldn’t have any control over speech, but it’s even more important that we have a culture of free speech,

Dec 9, 23 3:17 pm  · 
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Frankroidlite

*because what goes unsaid festers in the mind. Let ideas come to light. Be more understanding that sometime people say stupid things or make mistakes. Challenge bad ideas with good ideas, not with cancel culture tactics. That’s my opinion on it.

Dec 9, 23 3:19 pm  · 
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☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

You really didn't answer my questions. Especially after I answered yours directly.

Dec 9, 23 5:59 pm  · 
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Frankroidlite

I’m in favor of absolute free speech, because it’s the only form of free speech. As for teaching, as long as the teachers are not state employees then they should be allowed to teach whatever they want, and students can choose to take their classes or not. Anti Zionism is not necessarily antisemitism but it could be depending on the context. Hate speech is not a real thing. “Hate” is too loosely defined to not be weaponized. All speech is protected except the speech that rises to the level of direct threats or libel. The aclu Jewish president fought for the rights to neo Nazis to March in Illinois. That is the spirit of free speech that liberals have mostly abandoned.

Dec 9, 23 10:53 pm  · 
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☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

You do understand that the ACLU fights against government overreach when they are the ones limiting speech, right? They don't sue Universities, that fire teachers, administrators, coaches, etc, who say, or practice with racist behaviors. There's a difference.

Dec 10, 23 6:05 am  · 
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Frankroidlite

I understand the difference. The culture of free speech and the laws surrounding free speech are two different things. When we have a culture that doesn’t respect free speech and it too quick to weaponize “consequences” through institutions then the ability to exercise free speech is affected. Imagine this was true of any other right - like voting. We have a legal right to vote, but if we have a culture that doesn’t believe in exercising one’s vote and actively uses institutional power and corporate power to limit certain groups from voting - that’s a problem. I’m not saying that there should be no social consequences for speech, but we shouldn’t be so quick to punish. Overtly racist individuals like neo Nazis who demonstrate a consistent view obviously will face social consequences as they should. There is a big difference between that, and what’s been going on. It’s the degree of consequences and the overall abandonment of the principles of free speech that is the problem. And with that, the government overreach goes unnoticed or unchallenged because the public no longer believes in free speech as a core fundamental value.

Dec 10, 23 10:25 am  · 
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Frankroidlite

And, let’s not forget that in the US corporate and state interests are often intertwined, unfortunately,

Dec 10, 23 10:27 am  · 
1  · 
Frankroidlite

and there has been documented collusion between state actors and large corporations to limit speech for whatever reasons. So, the line between public and private institutions are not always so clear.

Dec 10, 23 10:28 am  · 
1  · 
Frankroidlite

There is an interesting concept called turnkey authoritarianism where the apparatus for authoritarianism is put in place with popular and noble sounding things - like hate speech laws loosely written. Then, once that apparatus is in place without public uprising the state and corporate powers just have to make a few small adjustments- like broadening definitions of “hate” to include whatever is politically or financially convenient and whaaalaa you are living under an authoritarian dictatorship.

Dec 10, 23 10:33 am  · 
1  · 
____

Project much? Do you intern at the Heritage Foundation?

Dec 10, 23 12:20 pm  · 
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Frankroidlite

Freedom of speech is a conservative value?

Dec 10, 23 1:15 pm  · 
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____

You are intentionally spewing verbal diarrhea to troll this site. You are projecting.

Dec 10, 23 1:36 pm  · 
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Frankroidlite

I’m not following. What do you have a problem with? I’m answering b3tadine[sutures] questions.

Dec 10, 23 2:50 pm  · 
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Volunteer

Liz McGill resigned from the Presidency at the University of Pennsylvania Saturday. She will remain at the university as a member of the law faculty. Hopefully she will not teach felony law. 

Dec 9, 23 5:50 pm  · 
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☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

Well, isn't interesting that she resigned a month and half ago, after the felonies committed against supporters of Palestine.

On, wait, it was only after reports of hate speech against zionist supporters that she resigned.

Got. It. 

Dec 9, 23 5:57 pm  · 
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monosierra

Wharton wields exceptional power within Penn - far more than other business schools in their institutions. They run their own endowment and have their own donors. When Wharton and its supporters decided enough damage had been done financially, she had to go.

Dec 10, 23 12:10 pm  · 
2  · 
☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

I'll keep asking, until it's provided; show me the evidence that any anti-semitic death threats were leveled at students, or professors, by anyone connected to the Pro-Palestine movement. 

Show. Me. 

Dec 10, 23 1:00 pm  · 
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Volunteer

How about the people banging on the locked Cooper Union library doors where Jewish supporters had fled for their safety?

Dec 10, 23 3:39 pm  · 
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☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

Is that a felony? Banging on doors? Sounds like a genocide to me, right?

Dec 10, 23 4:23 pm  · 
1  · 
Volunteer

Yes, that was felony assault. And when the mob pushed and shoved the Cooper Union guard that was both felony assault and felony battery. Any more questions?

Dec 11, 23 7:04 am  · 
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☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

Really? There are charges of course, right? Any more answers? I just watched the video. Chants of "Free Palestine" and no charges for free speech activists, and no security guard alleging assault. Try. Harder.

Again, let's be clear, Cooper Union. Not UPenn.

Dec 11, 23 1:19 pm  · 
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Volunteer

"I'll keep asking, until it's provided; show me the evidence that any anti-semitic death threats were leveled at students, or professors, by anyone connected to the Pro-Palestine movement." 

 I just did. Lets be clear. Forty NYC policemen showed up to escort the Jewish supporters who had locked themselves in the Cooper Union library to safety. Doesn't sound like a peaceful demonstration outside the library to me. The people inside feared for their physical safety which was a felony committed against them.

Dec 11, 23 1:52 pm  · 
 ·  1

b3tadine[sutures] wrote:

 "I'll keep asking, until it's provided; show me the evidence that any anti-semitic death threats were leveled at students, or professors, by anyone connected to the Pro-Palestine movement. "

Somewhat related to this topic - I've received online death threats from my postings here that both Israel and Palestine are acting poorly in the Gaza conflict and need to be stopped. 

 The death threats I've received have been from each side.

Dec 11, 23 1:55 pm  · 
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☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

The only threats I've personally witnessed here, is the threat of doxxing. Anyone one of us could be contacted, and once been contacted by exactly one person. One. Not saying you haven't.

As for the "forty policemen" even local news stated the protestors left on their own accord. No one was arrested. No one will be arrested. This wasn't UPenn. You've proved nothing, nada, zilch. Your faux outrage matches your duplicitousness. You're a fraud.

Dec 11, 23 1:57 pm  · 
1  · 

The threats against me weren't made publicly but made via e-mail from some users here and their 'friends'.

To be clear - None of the users involved in these discussions made any threats.  

Dec 11, 23 1:58 pm  · 
3  · 
sameolddoctor

Its a good thing i dont check the email my username is linked to ... maybe i should and it may be hilarious

Dec 11, 23 2:27 pm  · 
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Until this any emails from this site have been great!

Dec 11, 23 5:48 pm  · 
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sameolddoctor

The whole thing is about the Oppressor (Israel supporters and Zionists) acting like the Oppressed. There have been no credible threats for genocide, it is all made up to distract from the actual atrocities happening in Palestine.

Dec 11, 23 12:42 pm  · 
2  · 
☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭

When their Jewish, or por-Jewish, students were threatened with credible death or injury threats by their pro-Palestine students the Jewish students sustained an assault...


Never happened.

Dec 11, 23 2:19 pm  · 
2  · 
sameolddoctor

It also sounds super rich and privileged to say  "The guard was pushed and they knocked hard on the door", when the US and Israel are literally burning kids alive with white phosphorus. 

The only good to come out of all this suffering is that the general public (me included) can now see what a whole farce this US-Israel relationship is, and completely worthless to most of us in our daily lives.

Dec 11, 23 2:31 pm  · 
2  · 
sameolddoctor

Gotta also love that a hardcore right-wing Trumpster (who for the record did not give a damn about Charlottesville) was responsible for the questioning. 

Pretty clear that both the Dems and Republicans are in for the Israeli cause, hence not surprising that they are generating so much hatred.

Dec 12, 23 5:40 pm  · 
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