Hello, I was wondering if you guys could help me in answering a question about stairwell safety.
I live on the 4th floor in a college residence hall that has a continuous stairwell going up five floors (first picture). I am quite concerned whenever I look down the stairwell from the top floor. The railing is not particularly high and someone (maybe a drunk college student) could easily fall right over and drop >50 feet below.
I am attempting to convince the office of residential life in my school to install some sort of safety netting (like second picture). Do you guys know of any city code regulations addressing this issue? Also, what are these nets called in architectural jargon and are they common? I've definitely seen them in several public buildings. Who would you approach to have these installed? Also, what are the conventional methods in ensuring safety regarding high vertical columns of empty space?
Thank you so much. Any information is highly appreciated!
Codes are written to accommodate normal usage and provide evacuation in worst case emergencies related to fires and in some jurisdictions natural disasters like earthquakes. They are not written to ensure the livelihood of irresponsible youth when they act foolishly...in fact legally speaking, arguing the school ought to install nets to protect grown adults from drunkenly climbing over a perfectly functioning handrail would inherently mean the school condones alcohol consumption (including that of the underage variety) in this particular dormitory. This is in many schools quite the opposite of stated policy...
Has anyone actually 'fallen' or climbed over this railing?
If you are so concerned about toppling over it perhaps you should focus on your studies and put the bottle down. Or if you are not a student, relay such information to them.
There is no safety net in the real world, students will soon discover after exiting the safe bubble of campus life.
Oct 29, 17 4:07 am ·
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Jltcjw
Thanks for the responses. Yes, I am a college student. I do not condone underage drinking and have only ever consumed alcohol recreationally once (I understand your disdain for reckless college students). I exercise strict abstinence for religious purposes and am a very busy student (I'm on a lot of financial aid and my family is barely making it, so I study my ass off to make it worth it). I post because I am ge
nuinely concerned (drunk students were just an example, it could be an array of other issues, especially when students are moving in and have to climb four flights of stairs carrying heavy loads). I do not believe that schools installing safety equipment directly implies condoning underage drinking. They can be installed for many other reasons (I've seen these even in the California State Capitol Building, they surely do not even admit drunk college students at their screening checkpoints). My question was simply, is it common or even legal for this type of architecture to exist without safety measures? If yes, then I will drop the issue. Again, thank you for your consideration.
Good idea but can you imagine if safety measures were defined by drunk people? Should our roads be designed so drunk drivers can navigate them without crashing? (They already kinda are.) The stair with the well in the middle is nice. I've never thought them dangerous. The ladderlike railings, yes, like someone said above. Those are dangerous.
Oct 29, 17 8:56 am ·
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Wilma Buttfit
I drove Oh My God Road today.
Oct 29, 17 9:29 pm ·
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Wilma Buttfit
It isn't on the way to the airport from Hunter's house....
Line the stairwell core with heavy Plexiglas and make an atrium? Look better than the netting and foolproof for college peoples.
Oct 29, 17 11:21 am ·
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randomised
But be sure to put stickers on the plexiglas otherwise the college peoples will walk into it.
Oct 29, 17 11:53 am ·
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Jltcjw
I understand your disdain for reckless college students.
However, it would be nice if you could provide me some information, as I am trying to use this as an opportunity to understand governmental regulations in a field that I am not studying, while also protecting those around me in the process. I have tried looking through official city codes, but have only found regulations about railings, not about empty wells. Please read my reply to an above comment. Thank you for you consideration.
Oct 29, 17 2:19 pm ·
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randomised
Jltcjw, your paternalistic helicopter parenting is a tad overkill, just let it go. Stupid people will do stupid stuff, c'est la vie.
Oct 30, 17 5:18 am ·
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Jltcjw
You have a certain world view and we may differ on certain aspects. This is my first time posting on this forum and maybe I didn't understand the conventions here. I still don't quite understand if you mean that I am a helicopter parent or my parents brought me up that way. Either way, thanks for participating in the discussion.
Oct 30, 17 9:09 am ·
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randomised
All I mean with the helicopter reference is that you yourself shouldn't hover over your fellow students like this. Give them a bit of air to breathe and let them make their own mistakes, even if that means plummeting to their ultimate demise. You can't protect them from their own stupidity. What's next, emptying the sea for fear of drowning?
I don't see the need for all the snark on this thread. OP is a clear question asked, with pictures, and polite. Answer is pretty straightforward too.
OP: it is possible that the stair railing is not per code. If not, it should be cited and remedied. Measure from the nosing of a stair tread (i.e., the furthest point forward on the stair tread--the point where it transitions from a horizontal plane to a vertical) straight up to the top of the highest horizontal railing. This must measure minimum of 42". I can't think of a single code that wouldn't require 42" guard at both stair-side and landing for an open stair in a multi-unit residence. However, it IS possible that your particular local code doesn't require this, and it's also possible that the "ladder" style (continuous horizontal bars forming the railings) are either legal or illegal--this one varies by location. To find out for sure, you can find the building code for your particular city through googling:
Step 1: google your city name and the words "adopted codes" and you'll find some kind of city government website telling which code has been adopted by your city. They may have a link directly to an online version of the code, or
Step 2: search Am Legal website for your municipal code.
Step 3: find the building code sections within your municipal code, and/or locate an online copy of the reference code the city has adopted for buildings. Usually this is something like IRC/IBC 2009, etc.
Step 4: once you've figured out your locality's code, search in it for "guard" height (that's what the railing is actually called). There should be a section of code dealing with "egress stairs" (technical term for this stair) and it will tell you all the legal reqmts for this stair, and you can check if all yourself.
Step 5: if the stair is not up to legal code, it doesn't make sense to go to your university about it--just call the local building dept and say you want to flag a non-code conforming egress stair. If your city has a functional government they'll eventually get around to sending out a bldg inspector who will then cite the university for a violation and make them brjng the stair into compliance (i.e., replace the railing).
That said, if your railings are minimum 42", it is 99% likely they are perfectly legal, and honestly that is plenty high enough to prevent all but the most determined Darwin-award-seekers from accidental death. So... I would not recommend installing nets. They will do nothing but catch constant amounts of trash and shit college students will throw down them. They will be trash-filled gross nets and the janitors will hate you.
? Yes, the code gets updated every few years, but he can look up what the current code is, see if the stair should be flagged for a bldg inspector, and let govt proceed from there. No need to make question more complicated than it is
Oct 29, 17 5:26 pm ·
·
bowling_ball
This isn't true everywhere. If the guard met code at the time of permit/ construction, and the use hasn't changed, then at least where I live, there's nothing saying that such a condition contravenes code. In other words, it's grandfathered in. Could you imagine a world where every code issue had to be instantly updated to meet current standards? The thought is kind of ridiculous.
Oct 30, 17 1:10 am ·
·
randomised
In NL the code has two versions, for new builds and for existing buildings that you're renovating or have a change of function. Existing buildings that you're not renovating and their use isn't changing don't need to meet the current code.
The stairs are most likely grandfathered into an old code, in which case, they do not need to be "fixed" unless the building undergoes renovation to the extent that a newer code would be triggered and compel the owner to bring the stairs up to code. Otherwise, just use the elevator.
Local codes always vary but there are two codes in play here. Handrails (34-38") and Guardrails (42"). Guardrails are to help prevent the falling over the side as you've indicated. This is the conventional method you are requesting.
If you look at the lower level landing you can clearly see a handrail at a lower height than the top railing. Without any measurement confirmation available, it appears the railings are adequate, subject to actual verification by a RA, PE, or local building code inspector.
Nov 7, 17 10:05 am ·
·
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Stairwell Safety Question
Hello, I was wondering if you guys could help me in answering a question about stairwell safety.
I live on the 4th floor in a college residence hall that has a continuous stairwell going up five floors (first picture). I am quite concerned whenever I look down the stairwell from the top floor. The railing is not particularly high and someone (maybe a drunk college student) could easily fall right over and drop >50 feet below.
I am attempting to convince the office of residential life in my school to install some sort of safety netting (like second picture). Do you guys know of any city code regulations addressing this issue? Also, what are these nets called in architectural jargon and are they common? I've definitely seen them in several public buildings. Who would you approach to have these installed? Also, what are the conventional methods in ensuring safety regarding high vertical columns of empty space?
Thank you so much. Any information is highly appreciated!
Those nets are mostly used to filter out the jumpers, not the drunkards.
Has anyone actually 'fallen' or climbed over this railing?
If you are so concerned about toppling over it perhaps you should focus on your studies and put the bottle down. Or if you are not a student, relay such information to them.
There is no safety net in the real world, students will soon discover after exiting the safe bubble of campus life.
Thanks for the responses. Yes, I am a college student. I do not condone underage drinking and have only ever consumed alcohol recreationally once (I understand your disdain for reckless college students). I exercise strict abstinence for religious purposes and am a very busy student (I'm on a lot of financial aid and my family is barely making it, so I study my ass off to make it worth it). I post because I am ge nuinely concerned (drunk students were just an example, it could be an array of other issues, especially when students are moving in and have to climb four flights of stairs carrying heavy loads). I do not believe that schools installing safety equipment directly implies condoning underage drinking. They can be installed for many other reasons (I've seen these even in the California State Capitol Building, they surely do not even admit drunk college students at their screening checkpoints). My question was simply, is it common or even legal for this type of architecture to exist without safety measures? If yes, then I will drop the issue. Again, thank you for your consideration.
Good idea but can you imagine if safety measures were defined by drunk people? Should our roads be designed so drunk drivers can navigate them without crashing? (They already kinda are.) The stair with the well in the middle is nice. I've never thought them dangerous. The ladderlike railings, yes, like someone said above. Those are dangerous.
I drove Oh My God Road today.
It isn't on the way to the airport from Hunter's house....
How high is the railing?
Wow, so somebody is proposing a literal safety net for college students.
I hope this is a beautiful troll job. Well done.
No, this is not a troll job, please read my reply to an above comment. Thank you for replying, however. I appreciate it.
Line the stairwell core with heavy Plexiglas and make an atrium? Look better than the netting and foolproof for college peoples.
But be sure to put stickers on the plexiglas otherwise the college peoples will walk into it.
I understand your disdain for reckless college students. However, it would be nice if you could provide me some information, as I am trying to use this as an opportunity to understand governmental regulations in a field that I am not studying, while also protecting those around me in the process. I have tried looking through official city codes, but have only found regulations about railings, not about empty wells. Please read my reply to an above comment. Thank you for you consideration.
Jltcjw, your paternalistic helicopter parenting is a tad overkill, just let it go. Stupid people will do stupid stuff, c'est la vie.
You have a certain world view and we may differ on certain aspects. This is my first time posting on this forum and maybe I didn't understand the conventions here. I still don't quite understand if you mean that I am a helicopter parent or my parents brought me up that way. Either way, thanks for participating in the discussion.
All I mean with the helicopter reference is that you yourself shouldn't hover over your fellow students like this. Give them a bit of air to breathe and let them make their own mistakes, even if that means plummeting to their ultimate demise. You can't protect them from their own stupidity. What's next, emptying the sea for fear of drowning?
OP: it is possible that the stair railing is not per code. If not, it should be cited and remedied. Measure from the nosing of a stair tread (i.e., the furthest point forward on the stair tread--the point where it transitions from a horizontal plane to a vertical) straight up to the top of the highest horizontal railing. This must measure minimum of 42". I can't think of a single code that wouldn't require 42" guard at both stair-side and landing for an open stair in a multi-unit residence. However, it IS possible that your particular local code doesn't require this, and it's also possible that the "ladder" style (continuous horizontal bars forming the railings) are either legal or illegal--this one varies by location. To find out for sure, you can find the building code for your particular city through googling:
Step 1: google your city name and the words "adopted codes" and you'll find some kind of city government website telling which code has been adopted by your city. They may have a link directly to an online version of the code, or
Step 2: search Am Legal website for your municipal code.
Step 3: find the building code sections within your municipal code, and/or locate an online copy of the reference code the city has adopted for buildings. Usually this is something like IRC/IBC 2009, etc.
Step 4: once you've figured out your locality's code, search in it for "guard" height (that's what the railing is actually called). There should be a section of code dealing with "egress stairs" (technical term for this stair) and it will tell you all the legal reqmts for this stair, and you can check if all yourself.
Step 5: if the stair is not up to legal code, it doesn't make sense to go to your university about it--just call the local building dept and say you want to flag a non-code conforming egress stair. If your city has a functional government they'll eventually get around to sending out a bldg inspector who will then cite the university for a violation and make them brjng the stair into compliance (i.e., replace the railing).
That said, if your railings are minimum 42", it is 99% likely they are perfectly legal, and honestly that is plenty high enough to prevent all but the most determined Darwin-award-seekers from accidental death. So... I would not recommend installing nets. They will do nothing but catch constant amounts of trash and shit college students will throw down them. They will be trash-filled gross nets and the janitors will hate you.
This isn't true everywhere. If the guard met code at the time of permit/ construction, and the use hasn't changed, then at least where I live, there's nothing saying that such a condition contravenes code. In other words, it's grandfathered in. Could you imagine a world where every code issue had to be instantly updated to meet current standards? The thought is kind of ridiculous.
In NL the code has two versions, for new builds and for existing buildings that you're renovating or have a change of function. Existing buildings that you're not renovating and their use isn't changing don't need to meet the current code.
Codes interfere with evolution.
Darwin would roll over in his grave if dumb drunks are not allowed to be taken out of our gene pool. Survival of the fittest!
The stairs are most likely grandfathered into an old code, in which case, they do not need to be "fixed" unless the building undergoes renovation to the extent that a newer code would be triggered and compel the owner to bring the stairs up to code. Otherwise, just use the elevator.
Those nets seem like a good way to encourage jumping
Speaking as a drunk college student, I would definitely climb on those nets.
Fuck nets. Place Indiana Jones like spikes at the bottom to deter falling or aid with natural selection.
Local codes always vary but there are two codes in play here. Handrails (34-38") and Guardrails (42"). Guardrails are to help prevent the falling over the side as you've indicated. This is the conventional method you are requesting.
If you look at the lower level landing you can clearly see a handrail at a lower height than the top railing. Without any measurement confirmation available, it appears the railings are adequate, subject to actual verification by a RA, PE, or local building code inspector.
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