You are a FUCKING IDIOT who doesn't READ what I said. Read what I said before making stupid assumptions of what I meant. Yes, there are countries other than the U.S. that requires registration/licensure to use the architect title and/or practice architecture but there are countries that don't. Understand what the hell I am talking about before going off telling my what I already knew even 10 years ago.
It is protected in countries that DO regulate the architect title. There are countries that do NOT regulate the architect title.
If you knew It 10 years ago, you should have gotten your US registration and degree 10 years ago.
edit: I felt threatened by Rick's last comment, the language he used was unacceptable for this forum. Could we get him a formal warning before a banning?
That was too harsh of a response from me but it is very infuriating when a person doesn't read what I said and tell me something I already know like telling me there are countries outside the U.S. that regulates the architect title. No shit, Captain Obvious. I have a copy of "International Practice of Architects" (prime author: Bradford Perkins, ISBN: 978-0-471-76087-0)
Seriously, read what I actually say and do some actual legal research if you are going to respond to a legal / law oriented post.
It gets infuriating when people on this post are deliberately and intentionally replying to me with FALSE information just to try to cause me to second guess myself. I don't have the patience for that kind of BULLSHIT. Either speak the fact or truth with at least some diligent fact finding or SHUT THE HELL UP. It is one thing to be mistaken and understandably mistaken but when you can deliberately state falsehood or waste my time on bullshit like telling me what I already know when I was already quite clear in what I meant. If any of you even have a fucking clue about who I am, then you damn well know I would know that obvious shit and I look at the particulars of each country for themselves and frankly sir, the laws are the rules. If it isn't codified, then that's just subjective.
While Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Denmark laws are different than the U.S. and even seemingly alien/complicated/etc., its expected. It's because you are unfamiliar. There are people who live in Sweden or work for a short-term job in Sweden or any other country without ever having an in-depth understanding of the laws required for becoming an architect. Sometimes, you might not know the difference between a government regulation and bylaws/rules of membership of a professional association.
If I really have to deal with presenting some sort of 'credential' from a professional association, I could probably use the NCBDC certification because A) no matter what degree you take, you can only have up to 3 years of credit out of 6 years of education/experience requirement for certification. You still need 3 years of practical experience. In any case, with or without a bachelors/masters degree conferred, I have college education in my transcript of over 5 or even 6 years of FULL-TIME equivalent schooling and in addition to that, several years of self-directed studies on top of that.
One thing I can flat out tell you, it is highly unlikely even the degrees in Sweden will necessarily prepare a person for independent practice. That's because the assignments are not always real projects for real clients. Much like, you can have a B.A./B.S. in Architecture and a 2-year M.Arch and still not be professionally ready for independent practice but sometimes you can begin independent practice on small projects earlier on and work your way up to bigger projects.
No, I'm not going out there to design a skyscraper in Sweden when it would be more appropriate to work on more modest projects that are more practical for a single person.
I wouldn't have any qualms of involving archiwutm8 on a project in Sweden based on complementary knowledge and skills in a collaboration / joint-venture arrangement. I wouldn't have any qualms of doing that with others but geez, man, what the hell. If there isn't a particular registration/license requirement and the society doesn't confer a stamp/seal to its members, its probably not going to matter so much whether you have a degree or not or membership in some professional association. What matters is doing competent and regulatory-compliant work (code compliant). Is it not the most important thing that matters to these officials?
Sure, there are countries that regulate the title architect but those aren't the countries I am talking about. If a certification of sorts is something they like to calm their nerves, I can do that. As for not being a member of SAA, why?
If you are telling me about France or Germany or UK or some other country that I wasn't talking about, why the hell bring it up? I don't have a precise sum total of all the countries that do not regulate the Architect title and I don't have a sum total of all the countries that don't regulate the practice of architecture. I do know at least 4 countries and a few others that don't regulate the architect title and don't regulate the practice of architecture. There is certain professional association membership credentials that are reserved and have protection under trademark protection laws but that is another matter altogether.
For what it is worth, can we not actually read what each other say before having to resort to some knee jerk asinine responses?
If you knew It 10 years ago, you should have gotten your US registration and degree 10 years ago.
10 years ago, I didn't have $100,000 that I can just throw out for some degree. Why get into a $100,000 student loan for taking courses that I had taught myself over 10 years ago like between 10-15 years ago.
While not at one moment in time but the question that I have to ask is why would I spend $100,000+ to be taught what I have already taught myself. Pay me for my time that I had already spent on self-study on top of over 7 FULL-TIME years of college education. Other than that, FUCK the tuition and all that other crap and just put some exams to take and just zip through all that shit so I am not spending 11 weeks a term listening to professors lectures on exactly the stuff that is in the text book. In addition, a person only needs the basic knowledge they need for the career and everything else can be learned throughout one's career. Only about 2 years worth of the curriculum is stuff you'll need to begin a career in architecture. The rest can be learned or developed progressively over one's life time. The other 3 or so years is just filler to milk money that 90% of the graduates won't remember after 2 weeks after completing the classes. The stuff people are going to remember is the stuff that they are going to use and see it being applied in their career objectives.
If we are taught what we need to know to pass the ARE and basic knowledge needed to professionally practice as an architect and begin a career, that core curriculum is only maybe 2 years in length with some studio work to practice the drafting/designing.
When I have already spent the time studying this for myself for retention, why should I do this effort twice and do this at the pace of the slowest morons in class when I can be done through the shit in a fraction of the time.
But nope, we have a stupid bureaucracy that is slow and doesn't keep up with me.
In the UK we can submit a portfolio to the RIBA for our part 1 and part 2 verification without ever attending a university for a degree. That way we don't have to "waste" money on a degree if we don't want to. Surely in the states you can do something similar?
well then, let's pick it back up prior to Ricardo's rants.
I think a nice bushy mustache, perhaps as a nice stubby trellis, is in order for this one. It would be a shame to waste such valuable upper lip real-estate.
I just borrowed Invisible Cities from my girlfriend, can't wait to read it!
Jul 11, 16 12:45 pm ·
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Unlike some........., I do know how to use a ruling pen along with to a lesser degree of regular use.... a nib pen (calligraphy pen). In other words, I'm not an expert in calligraphy but have some knowledge of how to use it and some mild skill experience. I have used ruling pens a tad bit more.
Aside from that, I know how these specialized types of dip pens are use and how the round 'disc' shape adjustment screw is used to adjust the line width by changing the gap distance between the jaws and how the ink is held on by surface tension.
In other words, I have a functional knowledge of these tools.
There are three different size ruling pens I have. The one in the pic is what is called a Swedish detail ruling pen. It's size such as the size of the 'jaws' tends to result in heavier line weight than your smaller or narrower ruling pen but also uses more ink.
Richard I gave you factual first-hand information about working in Sweden, based on several years working in Sweden. Are you seriously saying that you have a better understanding of how things work in Sweden than someone who has worked there? The thing you don't seem to be getting is that in the countries that don't regulate the title "architect" , that is because in those countries that word isn't a title that carries any weight. "Architect" is about the same as "unlicensed designer" in Sweden. You can call yourself that and apply for jobs, and you certainly can "practice" as an architect in Sweden with your current qualifications - in the sense that you can hang out your shingle and pursue work using that title. But in the extremely unlikely event that you actually find a client, your client is likely to be very unhappy when they discover that they need to hire somebody else to redo your work in order to be able to successfully complete a permit application.
In my experience there was no chance whatsoever of getting a permit without a recognized professional title, and a permit was required for far more than in most locations in the US. Anything with larger than about a 90 sf footprint, or taller than about 9 feet, or having any water or electrical service, needed a professional's stamp. This would effectively limit you to unlighted storage sheds and bus shelters and the like. Adding to that a fairly widespread disdain for American design, I don't see why you think your chances there are even as high as they are in Astoria.
As for this idea that NCBDC certification is somehow going to help you overseas: It appears there are a grand total of 2 people living outside the US who have that certification, so there isn't likely to be any awareness of or recognition of that credential. It also doesn't seem to meet the requirements for controlled testing environment. Perhaps you should contact those 2 expat NCBDC-certified people and see whether that certification has helped them in any way.
I take my source with the actual laws and the government rules. You see, government are suppose to follow there own laws and rules. The last I checked, there is no licensing board and Swedish Association of Architects is NOT a certifying body so there is no stamp or seal.
In addition, the last I recall, it is against the law to use a state licensing stamp/seal or a country's licensing board's stamp or seal for projects not located within the borders of the state or nation that issued that stamp or seal.
It's professional misconduct.
A certification stamp/seal from NCBDC (for example) is not bound by a national or state boundary.
I take first hand information from the government and actual authorities having jurisdiction which trumps your opinion or take when it comes to the legal matters. What you FAIL to understand is in countries where licensing is not required THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS LICENSED OR UNLICENSED ARCHITECTS. THERE IS NO LEGAL CONCEPT OF THAT IN THE LEGAL STRUCTURE.
Don't confuse having a membership in a professional society or a degree as having a license or a certification or a stamp/seal even being provided. I don't see anything from SAA about members being issued a stamp/seal. At least the AIBD/NCBDC has an actual certification exam (also undergoing ANSI accreditation which is why I am waiting to take the exam until then) and CPBD's have a stamp/seal and oh.... there is an internationally accessible website they can contact about issues or complaints. NCBDC code of conduct would apply there or anywhere else in the world as it does in the U.S. The primary reason AIBD/NCBDC program has not got wide spread certified professional members is because the exams were administered state-side and with online proctoring and approved procedures for site set up to be such that where you take the exam is acceptable to proctoring standards including what you have at the computer station and within reach including having to remain in front of the computer during the exam will make international access to the certification exams more available. In addition, this is because AIBD / NCBDC had been predominately U.S. oriented but as an association, it is not strictly bound to the U.S. borders. You are not allowed to use.... say... a California issued architect stamp to stamp/seal plans for projects intended to be built in another state or country. CPBD seal is not bound to state or country. You just have to meet the legal requirements to practice and do business to comply with code of conduct requirements.
Richard I'm not contradicting anything in the laws that you've looked up. I'm trying to make you understand that the reality is that, precisely because there is no nationwide standardized governing of the profession, all the power is in the hands of of local officials to determine what is required - and in reality what is required is a degree and a stamp from a recognized professional organization.
I already told you you're absolutely correct that you can call yourself an architect, and you can put out a shingle and offer architectural services. It's not like the US, where you'd get yourself fined by doing so. But you're refusing to understand that simply calling yourself "architect" in Sweden isn't going to bring you clients - because it doesn't inherently imply any qualifications. If by some chance you do come up with a client there, their project will just get stuck in permitting unless they hire somebody with a degree and a stamp to redo the drawings.
As for your claim that you're not allowed to use another country's stamp to seal plans elsewhere: this depends on the country. You cannot use another country's stamp in any US state - however there are two US territories that accept the stamps of certain other countries as valid in that territory. Some of the european countries that share professional organizations, the stamp of the professional organization is recognized for purposes of reciprocity in some.
Your fact-finding is invariably very incomplete, and partially incorrect. Your research skills are extremely poor - they're permanently stalled at the level of a 7th grader. That is why it would be in your best interest to seek out and learn from the actual first-hand experiences of others, instead of reject them and proceed stubbornly to waste more money and years in pursuing yet another career plan that has no chance of working.
Don't bother with Rick. He can't be helped. He thinks he knows everything, and he won't provide any evidence that he has any abilities at all. A few months ago I offered to throw him some side work - all I asked is that he'd send his resume and an example of any work he'd ever done, so I could figure out what he could handle. Instead I just got excuses for why he couldn't send those things - no scanner, can't make a pdf, no viable CAD software, things packed in boxes, etc. If somebody can't even send one single example of their work, how why would any potential client hire them ever, whether here or in Sweden or anywhere? And if it's so freaking difficult for him to scan a drawing or print a pdf then how can anybody have any confidence that he could get the work to them, if they did hire him? He's nothing but know-it-all talk - no action ever.
Jul 11, 16 8:17 pm ·
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Richard I'm not contradicting anything in the laws that you've looked up. I'm trying to make you understand that the reality is that, precisely because there is no nationwide standardized governing of the profession, all the power is in the hands of of local officials to determine what is required - and in reality what is required is a degree and a stamp from a recognized professional organization.
What stamp? There is no stamp that you can use from one country in another or one state in another. SAA doesn't issue stamps and if they did, it would be so indicated in membership. NCBDC stamp would be more official than a made up stamp by the architect/designer or whatever the f---. Sweden isn't France or Germany.
You can't use a stamp from France in another country. That's like using a stamp in California in New York even if New York did not or had repealed architectural licensing laws as that would be grounds for disciplinary action by California. The same thing for the countries that issued a stamp. Most of the european architect associations don't issue stamps and those national architect associations that don't necessarily have an architect certification and stamp/seal.
You are pointing out a stamp/seal that doesn't exist unless you can show me and prove it. I can't just accept everything you say from your personal experience as fact unless you support it with impartial facts from first hand official sources.
A diploma isn't a stamp/seal. A professional society membership card is not a stamp/seal that you affix to the plans. I'll agree that the local official will assess the complexity of the project and also the extent and completeness of plans I'd prepare and be submitted and from that extent decide. First off, I wouldn't be designing a skyscraper. I'd probably be designing houses and smaller / less complex structures that would be manageable. The local official will either assess if the project is complete and compliant or not.
A college degree doesn't guarantee competence, either. You can attest to the validity of that point. The professional society customarily recognized in Sweden is Swedish Association of Architects (English spelling) or SAA for shorthand. The universities don't confer stamp/seals. They confer diplomas. Unless you can show me that SAA issues their members stamps/seals, I have to question what you say. Then who is going to issue the stamp or seal. The architect themselves? If that's the case, I could just as nicely put one together if I really feel the need but I would find that a bit underhanded and unethical.
I already told you you're absolutely correct that you can call yourself an architect, and you can put out a shingle and offer architectural services. It's not like the US, where you'd get yourself fined by doing so. But you're refusing to understand that simply calling yourself "architect" in Sweden isn't going to bring you clients - because it doesn't inherently imply any qualifications. If by some chance you do come up with a client there, their project will just get stuck in permitting unless they hire somebody with a degree and a stamp to redo the drawing.
Thank you. Now I feel better that you are understanding that. I know, the road isn't easy. Part of initial steps is doing some pre-design plans but not your typical McMansions but more the kind of stuff suitable and contextually more appropriate. It takes time. I KNOW that. I have a lot of work to do on my own part to make myself more appealing. It would help if I don't waste so much time here arguing.
I DO agree with you with regard to reciprocity but this doesn't mean having a stamp issued in France, the architect would be allowed to affix the stamp on plans in Sweden.... while it might not get him/her in trouble in Sweden, it may get him or her in trouble in France by misuse of the stamp/seal.
Even a Swedish architect who is a member of SAA can't stamp/seal drawings if SAA doesn't issue stamp/seal to their members.
So far, I have not seen any reference of a stamp or seal or otherwise.
I'm still trying to figure out how are you as a Swedish architect, a member of SAA, going to stamp something if neither SAA or the universities issues you an stamp/seal?
(I know, YOU are probably not a SAA member..... Swedish Architect but just work along as if you were one)
I do have a degree, a certificate on top of that and hell of a lot of college credits. So who the hell is going to give a shit. I'm not worrying about SAA membership until after CPBD status or until later. The education analysis and what I learned in the field and self-taught is too complicated to analyze. NCBDC certification can be more easier to assess with comparability equivalency given different countries. I'm not worrying about that at this moment in time.
When I refer to using the stamp/seal of one country in another is not so much the recipient country such as Sweden but the country that issued the stamp like your state architect stamp will get their panties in a twist if you used it to stamp a set of drawings in another country. An AIBD/NCBDC's CPBD stamp/seal might be a convenient way for you to get around that issue.
You don't know how many domestic U.S. based CPBDs in fact do engage in practice outside the U.S. I don't know precisely, either.
Rick I didn't read beyond the 2nd paragraph - because there I found yet another blatant misstatement.
Have you ever actually read New York's laws? New York issues a temporary license for individual projects, for which they DO IN FACT ACCEPT OTHER STATE'S SEALS on NY-submitted drawings. As long as an application for a temporary license is submitted and approved, it's perfectly valid to use a CA license to stamp drawings for submittal in NY. It's also not a violation of CA's laws, or of any other state's, to do that.
So right there, you're inventing "laws" again. You should be ashamed of yourself: you're either a liar, inventing fiction to suit your purposes, or you're a grown man who doesn't possess the reading comprehension of a grade school child. The rest of the paragraphs aren't worth reading, nor are any future posts you might write here or anywhere else. You're a liar and an idiot.
can you give me some ideas on how to fix up my house?
archiwutm8.
You are a FUCKING IDIOT who doesn't READ what I said. Read what I said before making stupid assumptions of what I meant. Yes, there are countries other than the U.S. that requires registration/licensure to use the architect title and/or practice architecture but there are countries that don't. Understand what the hell I am talking about before going off telling my what I already knew even 10 years ago.
It is protected in countries that DO regulate the architect title. There are countries that do NOT regulate the architect title.
If you knew It 10 years ago, you should have gotten your US registration and degree 10 years ago.
edit: I felt threatened by Rick's last comment, the language he used was unacceptable for this forum. Could we get him a formal warning before a banning?
Antarctica, Mars, maybe possibly Togoland
That was too harsh of a response from me but it is very infuriating when a person doesn't read what I said and tell me something I already know like telling me there are countries outside the U.S. that regulates the architect title. No shit, Captain Obvious. I have a copy of "International Practice of Architects" (prime author: Bradford Perkins, ISBN: 978-0-471-76087-0)
Seriously, read what I actually say and do some actual legal research if you are going to respond to a legal / law oriented post.
It gets infuriating when people on this post are deliberately and intentionally replying to me with FALSE information just to try to cause me to second guess myself. I don't have the patience for that kind of BULLSHIT. Either speak the fact or truth with at least some diligent fact finding or SHUT THE HELL UP. It is one thing to be mistaken and understandably mistaken but when you can deliberately state falsehood or waste my time on bullshit like telling me what I already know when I was already quite clear in what I meant. If any of you even have a fucking clue about who I am, then you damn well know I would know that obvious shit and I look at the particulars of each country for themselves and frankly sir, the laws are the rules. If it isn't codified, then that's just subjective.
While Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Denmark laws are different than the U.S. and even seemingly alien/complicated/etc., its expected. It's because you are unfamiliar. There are people who live in Sweden or work for a short-term job in Sweden or any other country without ever having an in-depth understanding of the laws required for becoming an architect. Sometimes, you might not know the difference between a government regulation and bylaws/rules of membership of a professional association.
If I really have to deal with presenting some sort of 'credential' from a professional association, I could probably use the NCBDC certification because A) no matter what degree you take, you can only have up to 3 years of credit out of 6 years of education/experience requirement for certification. You still need 3 years of practical experience. In any case, with or without a bachelors/masters degree conferred, I have college education in my transcript of over 5 or even 6 years of FULL-TIME equivalent schooling and in addition to that, several years of self-directed studies on top of that.
One thing I can flat out tell you, it is highly unlikely even the degrees in Sweden will necessarily prepare a person for independent practice. That's because the assignments are not always real projects for real clients. Much like, you can have a B.A./B.S. in Architecture and a 2-year M.Arch and still not be professionally ready for independent practice but sometimes you can begin independent practice on small projects earlier on and work your way up to bigger projects.
No, I'm not going out there to design a skyscraper in Sweden when it would be more appropriate to work on more modest projects that are more practical for a single person.
I wouldn't have any qualms of involving archiwutm8 on a project in Sweden based on complementary knowledge and skills in a collaboration / joint-venture arrangement. I wouldn't have any qualms of doing that with others but geez, man, what the hell. If there isn't a particular registration/license requirement and the society doesn't confer a stamp/seal to its members, its probably not going to matter so much whether you have a degree or not or membership in some professional association. What matters is doing competent and regulatory-compliant work (code compliant). Is it not the most important thing that matters to these officials?
Sure, there are countries that regulate the title architect but those aren't the countries I am talking about. If a certification of sorts is something they like to calm their nerves, I can do that. As for not being a member of SAA, why?
If you are telling me about France or Germany or UK or some other country that I wasn't talking about, why the hell bring it up? I don't have a precise sum total of all the countries that do not regulate the Architect title and I don't have a sum total of all the countries that don't regulate the practice of architecture. I do know at least 4 countries and a few others that don't regulate the architect title and don't regulate the practice of architecture. There is certain professional association membership credentials that are reserved and have protection under trademark protection laws but that is another matter altogether.
For what it is worth, can we not actually read what each other say before having to resort to some knee jerk asinine responses?
...
If you knew It 10 years ago, you should have gotten your US registration and degree 10 years ago.
10 years ago, I didn't have $100,000 that I can just throw out for some degree. Why get into a $100,000 student loan for taking courses that I had taught myself over 10 years ago like between 10-15 years ago.
While not at one moment in time but the question that I have to ask is why would I spend $100,000+ to be taught what I have already taught myself. Pay me for my time that I had already spent on self-study on top of over 7 FULL-TIME years of college education. Other than that, FUCK the tuition and all that other crap and just put some exams to take and just zip through all that shit so I am not spending 11 weeks a term listening to professors lectures on exactly the stuff that is in the text book. In addition, a person only needs the basic knowledge they need for the career and everything else can be learned throughout one's career. Only about 2 years worth of the curriculum is stuff you'll need to begin a career in architecture. The rest can be learned or developed progressively over one's life time. The other 3 or so years is just filler to milk money that 90% of the graduates won't remember after 2 weeks after completing the classes. The stuff people are going to remember is the stuff that they are going to use and see it being applied in their career objectives.
If we are taught what we need to know to pass the ARE and basic knowledge needed to professionally practice as an architect and begin a career, that core curriculum is only maybe 2 years in length with some studio work to practice the drafting/designing.
When I have already spent the time studying this for myself for retention, why should I do this effort twice and do this at the pace of the slowest morons in class when I can be done through the shit in a fraction of the time.
But nope, we have a stupid bureaucracy that is slow and doesn't keep up with me.
Antarctica, Mars, maybe possibly Togoland
*rolleyes*
Exactly what we needed, an ass hat.
How does one work in Sweden when they do not speak Swedish?
How do you expect to find projects in Sweden? Why should a Swede hire you?
How does one work in Sweden when they do not speak Swedish?
Heh....... :-)
Seriously - seek help for your mental health.
In the UK we can submit a portfolio to the RIBA for our part 1 and part 2 verification without ever attending a university for a degree. That way we don't have to "waste" money on a degree if we don't want to. Surely in the states you can do something similar?
We don't need no water let the motherfucker burn,
Burn motherfucker burn.
Classic BHG
Tell me Rick, what textbook do they teach studio from? I'm waiting.
This hole of yours must be getting pretty deep.
^Calvino's Invisible cities?
Rick, you are being intentionally ridiculous on this thread.
archiwhutm8, I believe Rick has been warned previously. I'm personally just about fed up enough with him to petition for banning him myself.
How did a fun thread on an ugly house deteriorate into this?
Josh, it was the "textbook" used in my first design studio.
Rick, you are my inspiration to do something with myself so I don't ever end up a withering wreck, crusading the internet sprouting rubbish.
How did a fun thread on an ugly house deteriorate into this?
http://www.aibd.org/for_consumers/find_a_member.php
well then, let's pick it back up prior to Ricardo's rants.
I think a nice bushy mustache, perhaps as a nice stubby trellis, is in order for this one. It would be a shame to waste such valuable upper lip real-estate.
He wouldn't know which end is the pointy part.
^but he would surely spend 2000 words on trying to convince you that he does.
I just borrowed Invisible Cities from my girlfriend, can't wait to read it!
Unlike some........., I do know how to use a ruling pen along with to a lesser degree of regular use.... a nib pen (calligraphy pen). In other words, I'm not an expert in calligraphy but have some knowledge of how to use it and some mild skill experience. I have used ruling pens a tad bit more.
Aside from that, I know how these specialized types of dip pens are use and how the round 'disc' shape adjustment screw is used to adjust the line width by changing the gap distance between the jaws and how the ink is held on by surface tension.
In other words, I have a functional knowledge of these tools.
There are three different size ruling pens I have. The one in the pic is what is called a Swedish detail ruling pen. It's size such as the size of the 'jaws' tends to result in heavier line weight than your smaller or narrower ruling pen but also uses more ink.
Rick NEVER used a pen. He's lying.
.
Excellent, Josh! Love that character so much.
Richard I gave you factual first-hand information about working in Sweden, based on several years working in Sweden. Are you seriously saying that you have a better understanding of how things work in Sweden than someone who has worked there? The thing you don't seem to be getting is that in the countries that don't regulate the title "architect" , that is because in those countries that word isn't a title that carries any weight. "Architect" is about the same as "unlicensed designer" in Sweden. You can call yourself that and apply for jobs, and you certainly can "practice" as an architect in Sweden with your current qualifications - in the sense that you can hang out your shingle and pursue work using that title. But in the extremely unlikely event that you actually find a client, your client is likely to be very unhappy when they discover that they need to hire somebody else to redo your work in order to be able to successfully complete a permit application.
In my experience there was no chance whatsoever of getting a permit without a recognized professional title, and a permit was required for far more than in most locations in the US. Anything with larger than about a 90 sf footprint, or taller than about 9 feet, or having any water or electrical service, needed a professional's stamp. This would effectively limit you to unlighted storage sheds and bus shelters and the like. Adding to that a fairly widespread disdain for American design, I don't see why you think your chances there are even as high as they are in Astoria.
As for this idea that NCBDC certification is somehow going to help you overseas: It appears there are a grand total of 2 people living outside the US who have that certification, so there isn't likely to be any awareness of or recognition of that credential. It also doesn't seem to meet the requirements for controlled testing environment. Perhaps you should contact those 2 expat NCBDC-certified people and see whether that certification has helped them in any way.
Threesleeve,
I take my source with the actual laws and the government rules. You see, government are suppose to follow there own laws and rules. The last I checked, there is no licensing board and Swedish Association of Architects is NOT a certifying body so there is no stamp or seal.
In addition, the last I recall, it is against the law to use a state licensing stamp/seal or a country's licensing board's stamp or seal for projects not located within the borders of the state or nation that issued that stamp or seal.
It's professional misconduct.
A certification stamp/seal from NCBDC (for example) is not bound by a national or state boundary.
I take first hand information from the government and actual authorities having jurisdiction which trumps your opinion or take when it comes to the legal matters. What you FAIL to understand is in countries where licensing is not required THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS LICENSED OR UNLICENSED ARCHITECTS. THERE IS NO LEGAL CONCEPT OF THAT IN THE LEGAL STRUCTURE.
Don't confuse having a membership in a professional society or a degree as having a license or a certification or a stamp/seal even being provided. I don't see anything from SAA about members being issued a stamp/seal. At least the AIBD/NCBDC has an actual certification exam (also undergoing ANSI accreditation which is why I am waiting to take the exam until then) and CPBD's have a stamp/seal and oh.... there is an internationally accessible website they can contact about issues or complaints. NCBDC code of conduct would apply there or anywhere else in the world as it does in the U.S. The primary reason AIBD/NCBDC program has not got wide spread certified professional members is because the exams were administered state-side and with online proctoring and approved procedures for site set up to be such that where you take the exam is acceptable to proctoring standards including what you have at the computer station and within reach including having to remain in front of the computer during the exam will make international access to the certification exams more available. In addition, this is because AIBD / NCBDC had been predominately U.S. oriented but as an association, it is not strictly bound to the U.S. borders. You are not allowed to use.... say... a California issued architect stamp to stamp/seal plans for projects intended to be built in another state or country. CPBD seal is not bound to state or country. You just have to meet the legal requirements to practice and do business to comply with code of conduct requirements.
Now.... now......
What do you mean by "American design" ?
Where can a swede view your work? Drawings, built, etc.
classic balkins!
can't wait to hear more about how his personal opinions are "facts."
How about you go do something with your life and come back when you've designed a built work in Sweden?
I will literally drive to Astoria and buy you a beer if you manage to finish a single project there.
Richard I'm not contradicting anything in the laws that you've looked up. I'm trying to make you understand that the reality is that, precisely because there is no nationwide standardized governing of the profession, all the power is in the hands of of local officials to determine what is required - and in reality what is required is a degree and a stamp from a recognized professional organization.
I already told you you're absolutely correct that you can call yourself an architect, and you can put out a shingle and offer architectural services. It's not like the US, where you'd get yourself fined by doing so. But you're refusing to understand that simply calling yourself "architect" in Sweden isn't going to bring you clients - because it doesn't inherently imply any qualifications. If by some chance you do come up with a client there, their project will just get stuck in permitting unless they hire somebody with a degree and a stamp to redo the drawings.
As for your claim that you're not allowed to use another country's stamp to seal plans elsewhere: this depends on the country. You cannot use another country's stamp in any US state - however there are two US territories that accept the stamps of certain other countries as valid in that territory. Some of the european countries that share professional organizations, the stamp of the professional organization is recognized for purposes of reciprocity in some.
Your fact-finding is invariably very incomplete, and partially incorrect. Your research skills are extremely poor - they're permanently stalled at the level of a 7th grader. That is why it would be in your best interest to seek out and learn from the actual first-hand experiences of others, instead of reject them and proceed stubbornly to waste more money and years in pursuing yet another career plan that has no chance of working.
Don't bother with Rick. He can't be helped. He thinks he knows everything, and he won't provide any evidence that he has any abilities at all. A few months ago I offered to throw him some side work - all I asked is that he'd send his resume and an example of any work he'd ever done, so I could figure out what he could handle. Instead I just got excuses for why he couldn't send those things - no scanner, can't make a pdf, no viable CAD software, things packed in boxes, etc. If somebody can't even send one single example of their work, how why would any potential client hire them ever, whether here or in Sweden or anywhere? And if it's so freaking difficult for him to scan a drawing or print a pdf then how can anybody have any confidence that he could get the work to them, if they did hire him? He's nothing but know-it-all talk - no action ever.
Richard I'm not contradicting anything in the laws that you've looked up. I'm trying to make you understand that the reality is that, precisely because there is no nationwide standardized governing of the profession, all the power is in the hands of of local officials to determine what is required - and in reality what is required is a degree and a stamp from a recognized professional organization.
What stamp? There is no stamp that you can use from one country in another or one state in another. SAA doesn't issue stamps and if they did, it would be so indicated in membership. NCBDC stamp would be more official than a made up stamp by the architect/designer or whatever the f---. Sweden isn't France or Germany.
You can't use a stamp from France in another country. That's like using a stamp in California in New York even if New York did not or had repealed architectural licensing laws as that would be grounds for disciplinary action by California. The same thing for the countries that issued a stamp. Most of the european architect associations don't issue stamps and those national architect associations that don't necessarily have an architect certification and stamp/seal.
You are pointing out a stamp/seal that doesn't exist unless you can show me and prove it. I can't just accept everything you say from your personal experience as fact unless you support it with impartial facts from first hand official sources.
A diploma isn't a stamp/seal. A professional society membership card is not a stamp/seal that you affix to the plans. I'll agree that the local official will assess the complexity of the project and also the extent and completeness of plans I'd prepare and be submitted and from that extent decide. First off, I wouldn't be designing a skyscraper. I'd probably be designing houses and smaller / less complex structures that would be manageable. The local official will either assess if the project is complete and compliant or not.
A college degree doesn't guarantee competence, either. You can attest to the validity of that point. The professional society customarily recognized in Sweden is Swedish Association of Architects (English spelling) or SAA for shorthand. The universities don't confer stamp/seals. They confer diplomas. Unless you can show me that SAA issues their members stamps/seals, I have to question what you say. Then who is going to issue the stamp or seal. The architect themselves? If that's the case, I could just as nicely put one together if I really feel the need but I would find that a bit underhanded and unethical.
I already told you you're absolutely correct that you can call yourself an architect, and you can put out a shingle and offer architectural services. It's not like the US, where you'd get yourself fined by doing so. But you're refusing to understand that simply calling yourself "architect" in Sweden isn't going to bring you clients - because it doesn't inherently imply any qualifications. If by some chance you do come up with a client there, their project will just get stuck in permitting unless they hire somebody with a degree and a stamp to redo the drawing.
Thank you. Now I feel better that you are understanding that. I know, the road isn't easy. Part of initial steps is doing some pre-design plans but not your typical McMansions but more the kind of stuff suitable and contextually more appropriate. It takes time. I KNOW that. I have a lot of work to do on my own part to make myself more appealing. It would help if I don't waste so much time here arguing.
I DO agree with you with regard to reciprocity but this doesn't mean having a stamp issued in France, the architect would be allowed to affix the stamp on plans in Sweden.... while it might not get him/her in trouble in Sweden, it may get him or her in trouble in France by misuse of the stamp/seal.
Even a Swedish architect who is a member of SAA can't stamp/seal drawings if SAA doesn't issue stamp/seal to their members.
So far, I have not seen any reference of a stamp or seal or otherwise.
I'm still trying to figure out how are you as a Swedish architect, a member of SAA, going to stamp something if neither SAA or the universities issues you an stamp/seal?
(I know, YOU are probably not a SAA member..... Swedish Architect but just work along as if you were one)
I do have a degree, a certificate on top of that and hell of a lot of college credits. So who the hell is going to give a shit. I'm not worrying about SAA membership until after CPBD status or until later. The education analysis and what I learned in the field and self-taught is too complicated to analyze. NCBDC certification can be more easier to assess with comparability equivalency given different countries. I'm not worrying about that at this moment in time.
When I refer to using the stamp/seal of one country in another is not so much the recipient country such as Sweden but the country that issued the stamp like your state architect stamp will get their panties in a twist if you used it to stamp a set of drawings in another country. An AIBD/NCBDC's CPBD stamp/seal might be a convenient way for you to get around that issue.
You don't know how many domestic U.S. based CPBDs in fact do engage in practice outside the U.S. I don't know precisely, either.
Rick I didn't read beyond the 2nd paragraph - because there I found yet another blatant misstatement.
Have you ever actually read New York's laws? New York issues a temporary license for individual projects, for which they DO IN FACT ACCEPT OTHER STATE'S SEALS on NY-submitted drawings. As long as an application for a temporary license is submitted and approved, it's perfectly valid to use a CA license to stamp drawings for submittal in NY. It's also not a violation of CA's laws, or of any other state's, to do that.
So right there, you're inventing "laws" again. You should be ashamed of yourself: you're either a liar, inventing fiction to suit your purposes, or you're a grown man who doesn't possess the reading comprehension of a grade school child. The rest of the paragraphs aren't worth reading, nor are any future posts you might write here or anywhere else. You're a liar and an idiot.
we need a R-exit on this forum.
He's a grown boy, with the narcissicm and entitlement to believd he IS. That he has achieved, simply for being able to fill a diaper with shit.
thanks a lot
you guys have ruined my little house thread
is that what you wanted
you wanted me to feel bad didn't you
well you did it
hey let's get together and jack up go do it
funny guys real funny
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