Perhaps, New York was a bad choice but customarily between states in the U.S., an architect licensed in a state may not use their stamp on plans and specifications for projects not located within the state. This had been a traditional legal understanding throughout the U.S. as a norm for close to 100 YEARS or so. Customarily, you are suppose to only use a state stamp in connection with projects within the state not another state or country. People in the past, used to be disciplined/fined for that, if I remember correctly.
Lets skip this point, lets get right down to the other important paragraph that you skipped earlier.
I'm still trying to figure out how are you as a Swedish architect, a member of SAA, going to stamp something if neither SAA or the universities issues you an stamp/seal?
(I know, YOU are probably not a SAA member..... Swedish Architect but just work along as if you were one)
Can someone who IS a member of the Swedish Association of Architects answer this following question: Does the Swedish Association of Architects issue their members a stamp or seal that would be affixed to plans prepared by you?
I hereby pledge never to converse with Richard Balkins again in any thread. Please others join this policy and starve this moron of the attention he seeks by posting inanity on archinect.
I'm still trying to figure out how are you as a Swedish architect, a member of SAA, going to stamp something if neither SAA or the universities issues you an stamp/seal?
There is a SAR/MSA certificate issued - a copy of which, in conjunction with a signature and date, serves the same purpose in Sweden when applying for permits as the seals page does in a permit application set or project manual in the US.
Jul 11, 16 10:59 pm ·
·
Threesleeve,
You did not answer this:
I'm still trying to figure out how are you as a Swedish architect, a member of SAA, going to stamp something if neither SAA or the universities issues you an stamp/seal?
You have not answered this. If SAA doesn't issue stamp/seal or have a stamp/seal to be used by their members, why would a local official require something their own architects that are members of SAA wouldn't even have?
I hereby pledge never to converse with Richard Balkins again in any thread. Please others join this policy and starve this moron of the attention he seeks by posting inanity on archinect.
You gave it a good shot, but Balkins is a black hole of willful stupidity: He'll suck all the intelligence out of any conversation and crush it, while emitting nothing but radioactivity.
There is a SAR/MSA certificate issued - a copy of which, in conjunction with a signature and date, serves the same purpose in Sweden when applying for permits as the seals page does in a permit application set or project manual in the US.
Sorry, I didn't read your post before the other post but I don't see any particular documentation, policy, rule or otherwise in Swedish or English that supports that.
It's not the membership certificate that gets affixed, it is the MSA certification. You understand how the first or 2nd page of a project manual is typically the seals page in the US, without which the work is not accepted as a permit set? It's the same thing but regulated at local levels, rather than by states.
Jul 12, 16 12:21 am ·
·
Just so you know: Sveriges Arkitekter is the Swedish name of the organization that in English is called Swedish Association of Architects. Since the forum is predominately English speakers, I primarily use the English form.
I know Rick I worked there and was a member. The MSA is the certification of the degree and experience. It functions sort of like NCARB certification here, but required at the municipal level, and not to practice but to meet permitting requirements. Find a permit application and you will see.
It's not the membership certificate that gets affixed, it is the MSA certification. You understand how the first or 2nd page of a project manual is typically the seals page in the US, without which the work is not accepted as a permit set? It's the same thing but regulated at local levels, rather than by states.
Don't worry too much about my immediate previous response as I didn't read your post quoted above as of yet at that moment. It is just something to clarify in case. Aluminate, I think you understood that already.
Jul 12, 16 1:27 am ·
·
I know Rick I worked there and was a member. The MSA is the certification of the degree and experience. It functions sort of like NCARB certification here, but required at the municipal level, and not to practice but to meet permitting requirements. Find a permit application and you will see.
Alright... lets talk about this privately if you don't mind. I agree it can be a crap shoot with each local building department but there are plenty of people in Sweden who are not members of the SA association who do not have this MSA credential. Obviously, this is dependent on the "building department".
Here are just a couple but I have looked at a number of them. For whatever reason, I don't see anything requiring or stating a requirement for SAR/MSA status or any of that stuff.
Nope, but now that he's realizing he's wrong he wants to get out of the public forum to backpedal. I say fuck that. He's an unrepentant narcissist, and it's for the greater good that as many people as possible in the community understand the depths of his incompetence. At this point it definitely falls into an HSW issue.
It depends on the individual states. Some states do allow experience in place of schooling. The educational cartel is doing it's best to stamp this loophole out. The AIA would not be involved. The NCARB would be as states have given up much of their responsibility to the NCARB to varying degrees.
This house just came into this thread for beauty tips, but is now hopelessly confused.
Jul 12, 16 8:44 am ·
·
Rick I don't do private messaging with anybody on this forum. Keep it public, or drop it.
I was wanting to cut out some of the peanut gallery so it would be easier to communicate without involving all the others. I'll look at creating a thread topic for that topic if that is okay with you.
Nope, but now that he's realizing he's wrong he wants to get out of the public forum to backpedal.
Nope. Your wrong. It's annoying responses like yours that makes it difficult to remain calm and civil even when responding to someone like Aluminate whose response is okay.
I look at basically the profession of Architecture in Sweden not as licensed or unlicensed but certified/credentialed vs someone who isn't. Yes, in a large complex project, a local official would likely demand a credential/certified architect to work on such a project but it's not legally required unless the local jurisdiction has codified laws/rules/ordinances or whatever that explicitly requires it. They can politically desire and nudge but even if you are not, if you prepare a well prepared set of plans that complies with the building codes (BBR) and related regulations and the local regulations, they'll probably accept it.
The issue is about quality of work not some letters after your name. In the U.S., architects are far too caught up with letters after their name then necessarily competence.
Look how much you guys spend on topics about some bureaucratic credential than you guys actually talk about elevating the art, science and profession of architect. When on any architecture forum have you guys really talk about how to make better architecture?
I haven't seen that here in the U.S. or U.S. based web forums in the past 15 years.
Rick, your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to ignore those folks. If you attempt to remain relevant, and someone attacks, do not engage. This is not me telling you to continue to spew nonsense. You should probably step back and consider what someone is telling you. If they are saying you're wrong... you might be. I know, I know. The odds of that happening are slim. Amirite? So, perhaps you just stop posting at that point. We all know it's not going to end well.
Stay on topic. If you have to google the answer to the question, don't post an answer. You didn't know it, and any idiot can use google. Should you really feel the need to post something related to your googled answer, use 'letmegooglethatforyou' and post the link the site provides. Endless source of entertainment for other readers. If you do know the answer, feel free to post it. And when someone proves you wrong, stop posting.
One of the greatest lessons I was taught as a child is 'tis better to be silent and thought a fool, than speak and be known as one.' I don't always adhere to the idea, but I should. You should too.
Rick, if you want to be a Swedish architect then you should move to Sweden. You will never be able to get projects there from Astoria OR. Be realistic. Step one, figure out how to immigrate into Sweden. Step two, save some money to make the move.
I hereby pledge never to converse with Richard Balkins again in any thread. Please others join this policy and starve this moron of the attention he seeks by posting inanity on archinect.
+++++
I was working on a, uh, project a few weeks ago. I shelved it but it sounds like it's worth digging up again. Stay tuned.
I look at basically the profession of Architecture in Sweden not as licensed or unlicensed but certified/credentialed vs someone who isn't. Yes, in a large complex project, a local official would likely demand a credential/certified architect to work on such a project but it's not legally required unless the local jurisdiction has codified laws/rules/ordinances or whatever that explicitly requires it. They can politically desire and nudge but even if you are not, if you prepare a well prepared set of plans that complies with the building codes (BBR) and related regulations and the local regulations, they'll probably accept it.
The issue is about quality of work not some letters after your name. In the U.S., architects are far too caught up with letters after their name then necessarily competence.
You can "look at" anything any way you like of course. Sadly that doesn't mean it works the way that you like to look at it. Sweden is very rule-oriented place. For some reason, without having even visited, solely on the basis that the word "architect" isn't regulated, you've invented the building climate in the Sweden in your head as a laissez-faire paradise for the unqualified self-invented designer, when nothing could be further from reality. Because there's no national certification or regulation it puts a far greater onus on municipal government to act as gatekeepers - and let me assure you they do act the part well. Where have you found examples to back up your theory that "they'll probably accept" plans drawn by somebody uncredentialed - particularly one operating remotely from overseas? My experience was that the rules and formality of the process were far more elaborate and rigid than most places I've worked in the US and abroad - particularly with regard to residential projects. A largely interior renovation project of no remarkable note structurally, that takes one not-necessarily-licensed designer in the US, can require a credentialed architect and the whole slate of consultants in Scandinavia.
That's probably the only way Rick could make a name for himself as a designer in Sweden:
Pay him to fly to Sweden and take measurements of your house with his theodolite and drones.
Wait months or years to let him take advantage of Ikea's free planning tools to lay out furniture and come up with what you need to buy.
Fly him back out to Sweden to measure the interior of your Volvo, again with theodolite and drones.
Wait months or years for him to tell you whether or not you need to make one, two, or even more trips to Ikea to purchase everything you need given the spatial limitations of your Volvo.
For an extra service, pay him to fly out to Sweden again and direct contractors how to construct the Ikea furniture by googling the instructions on the intranet.
Richard I only know about Norway, not the rest of Scandinavia, but in Norway there are four levels of architects and only the first is unregulated by building authorities, and that's because the first isn't allowed to sign building permit applications or exhibits. The three higher ranks all require a professional degree, and then progressively more years of experience per designation. If you're the first level and you don't have the degree there are no exceptions and no way to move up unless you get the degree. The first level can practice and call themselves architects but they always need a degreed architect to supervise the production of the permit exhibits and sign the papers. It would be unlikely that somebody would agree to do that for your projects unless maybe you can find a Norwegian degreed architect in Oregon to supervise.
Great, so I provide facts, and that's something to snub? I'm pretty sure even you will be able to google and verify that my info is indeed 100% correct. You're giving me snark because... why exactly? You don't like to base your career decisions on accurate information?
Parting gift since you doubt personal experience: a link. See both "Protection of the Function of Architects" in Professional Title table, and note #2 under "Access to the Profession". http://www.ace-cae.eu/62/
You know he's going to tell you how his interpretation of norwegian law is better than the Architects' Council of Europe and your personal experience put together, right? Because, you know, 10 years of community college AND he used to have a reindeer sweater.
can you give me some ideas on how to fix up my house?
Threesleeve,
Perhaps, New York was a bad choice but customarily between states in the U.S., an architect licensed in a state may not use their stamp on plans and specifications for projects not located within the state. This had been a traditional legal understanding throughout the U.S. as a norm for close to 100 YEARS or so. Customarily, you are suppose to only use a state stamp in connection with projects within the state not another state or country. People in the past, used to be disciplined/fined for that, if I remember correctly.
Lets skip this point, lets get right down to the other important paragraph that you skipped earlier.
I'm still trying to figure out how are you as a Swedish architect, a member of SAA, going to stamp something if neither SAA or the universities issues you an stamp/seal?
(I know, YOU are probably not a SAA member..... Swedish Architect but just work along as if you were one)
Can someone who IS a member of the Swedish Association of Architects answer this following question: Does the Swedish Association of Architects issue their members a stamp or seal that would be affixed to plans prepared by you?
Enough is enough.
I hereby pledge never to converse with Richard Balkins again in any thread. Please others join this policy and starve this moron of the attention he seeks by posting inanity on archinect.
I'm still trying to figure out how are you as a Swedish architect, a member of SAA, going to stamp something if neither SAA or the universities issues you an stamp/seal?
There is a SAR/MSA certificate issued - a copy of which, in conjunction with a signature and date, serves the same purpose in Sweden when applying for permits as the seals page does in a permit application set or project manual in the US.
Threesleeve,
You did not answer this:
I'm still trying to figure out how are you as a Swedish architect, a member of SAA, going to stamp something if neither SAA or the universities issues you an stamp/seal?
You have not answered this. If SAA doesn't issue stamp/seal or have a stamp/seal to be used by their members, why would a local official require something their own architects that are members of SAA wouldn't even have?
I hereby pledge never to converse with Richard Balkins again in any thread. Please others join this policy and starve this moron of the attention he seeks by posting inanity on archinect.
You gave it a good shot, but Balkins is a black hole of willful stupidity: He'll suck all the intelligence out of any conversation and crush it, while emitting nothing but radioactivity.
There is a SAR/MSA certificate issued - a copy of which, in conjunction with a signature and date, serves the same purpose in Sweden when applying for permits as the seals page does in a permit application set or project manual in the US.
Sorry, I didn't read your post before the other post but I don't see any particular documentation, policy, rule or otherwise in Swedish or English that supports that.
Ha! A membership certificate....... lol.
It's not the membership certificate that gets affixed, it is the MSA certification. You understand how the first or 2nd page of a project manual is typically the seals page in the US, without which the work is not accepted as a permit set? It's the same thing but regulated at local levels, rather than by states.
Just so you know: Sveriges Arkitekter is the Swedish name of the organization that in English is called Swedish Association of Architects. Since the forum is predominately English speakers, I primarily use the English form.
I know Rick I worked there and was a member. The MSA is the certification of the degree and experience. It functions sort of like NCARB certification here, but required at the municipal level, and not to practice but to meet permitting requirements. Find a permit application and you will see.
And one last caress.
This thread needs (one last caress) sweet death.
It's not the membership certificate that gets affixed, it is the MSA certification. You understand how the first or 2nd page of a project manual is typically the seals page in the US, without which the work is not accepted as a permit set? It's the same thing but regulated at local levels, rather than by states.
Don't worry too much about my immediate previous response as I didn't read your post quoted above as of yet at that moment. It is just something to clarify in case. Aluminate, I think you understood that already.
I know Rick I worked there and was a member. The MSA is the certification of the degree and experience. It functions sort of like NCARB certification here, but required at the municipal level, and not to practice but to meet permitting requirements. Find a permit application and you will see.
Alright... lets talk about this privately if you don't mind. I agree it can be a crap shoot with each local building department but there are plenty of people in Sweden who are not members of the SA association who do not have this MSA credential. Obviously, this is dependent on the "building department".
Here's a permit application (blank):
http://goteborg.se/wps/wcm/connect/5499a868-ee5f-4c61-9a48-1b5231399026/Ans%C3%B6kan+bygg%C3%A4rende+2015.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
http://malmo.se/download/18.5f3af0e314e7254d70e77435/1444210530364/Ans%C3%B6kan+om+Bygglov_Marklov_RivningslovMSSBK1510.pdf
Here are just a couple but I have looked at a number of them. For whatever reason, I don't see anything requiring or stating a requirement for SAR/MSA status or any of that stuff.
http://malmo.se/download/18.7acdbda51446ef6eb0ea449/1395393057640/Komplementbyggnad+exempelritning_2013.pdf
I also seen the example version on the Goteborg.se site.
Hey guys, I like to work in my pijamas!
http://www.vastervik.se/globalassets/blanketter/bygga-bo-miljo/ansokan-om-bygglov-marklov-rivningslov-20141014.pdf
Vastervik....
Please, do not ever reply to Rick. The more you engage the more ridiculous and confident he gets, remember to ignore him.
For the love of God don't take this to private messaging - leave it all out in the open so others will see his blatant lies.
Did Rick msg you Bench?
Can anyone answer my question? can you not just submit a portfolio to AIA for registration instead of doing a degree?
It depends on the individual states. Some states do allow experience in place of schooling. The educational cartel is doing it's best to stamp this loophole out. The AIA would not be involved. The NCARB would be as states have given up much of their responsibility to the NCARB to varying degrees.
Rick I don't do private messaging with anybody on this forum. Keep it public, or drop it.
This escalated...
Such an innocent thread. Now it's laying in some gutter savagely beaten and broken.
Now everyone take a look at this cute little guy. He's hungry and about to eat that small group of people. Nom nom nom.
These are all nice, but can they compete with Claude Ledoux's brothel design?
This house just came into this thread for beauty tips, but is now hopelessly confused.
Rick I don't do private messaging with anybody on this forum. Keep it public, or drop it.
I was wanting to cut out some of the peanut gallery so it would be easier to communicate without involving all the others. I'll look at creating a thread topic for that topic if that is okay with you.
Want to cut out the peanut gallery? Post something relevant to the thread. Problem solved.
I've tried that before fairly recently, doesn't work.
Some of them just wants to argue with me just to argue with me, I guess.
A wise man once said:
Nope, but now that he's realizing he's wrong he wants to get out of the public forum to backpedal.
Nope. Your wrong. It's annoying responses like yours that makes it difficult to remain calm and civil even when responding to someone like Aluminate whose response is okay.
I look at basically the profession of Architecture in Sweden not as licensed or unlicensed but certified/credentialed vs someone who isn't. Yes, in a large complex project, a local official would likely demand a credential/certified architect to work on such a project but it's not legally required unless the local jurisdiction has codified laws/rules/ordinances or whatever that explicitly requires it. They can politically desire and nudge but even if you are not, if you prepare a well prepared set of plans that complies with the building codes (BBR) and related regulations and the local regulations, they'll probably accept it.
The issue is about quality of work not some letters after your name. In the U.S., architects are far too caught up with letters after their name then necessarily competence.
Look how much you guys spend on topics about some bureaucratic credential than you guys actually talk about elevating the art, science and profession of architect. When on any architecture forum have you guys really talk about how to make better architecture?
I haven't seen that here in the U.S. or U.S. based web forums in the past 15 years.
Rick, your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to ignore those folks. If you attempt to remain relevant, and someone attacks, do not engage. This is not me telling you to continue to spew nonsense. You should probably step back and consider what someone is telling you. If they are saying you're wrong... you might be. I know, I know. The odds of that happening are slim. Amirite? So, perhaps you just stop posting at that point. We all know it's not going to end well.
Stay on topic. If you have to google the answer to the question, don't post an answer. You didn't know it, and any idiot can use google. Should you really feel the need to post something related to your googled answer, use 'letmegooglethatforyou' and post the link the site provides. Endless source of entertainment for other readers. If you do know the answer, feel free to post it. And when someone proves you wrong, stop posting.
One of the greatest lessons I was taught as a child is 'tis better to be silent and thought a fool, than speak and be known as one.' I don't always adhere to the idea, but I should. You should too.
More classic Balkins.
Help - my contractor read the plans upside down!
Q: When on any architecture forum have you guys really talk [sic] about how to make better architecture? --RWCB, PBD
A: Refer to the first ten posts here (post #13 is where it starts to get off the topic of better architecture).
Rick, if you want to be a Swedish architect then you should move to Sweden. You will never be able to get projects there from Astoria OR. Be realistic. Step one, figure out how to immigrate into Sweden. Step two, save some money to make the move.
I hereby pledge never to converse with Richard Balkins again in any thread. Please others join this policy and starve this moron of the attention he seeks by posting inanity on archinect.
+++++
I was working on a, uh, project a few weeks ago. I shelved it but it sounds like it's worth digging up again. Stay tuned.
I look at basically the profession of Architecture in Sweden not as licensed or unlicensed but certified/credentialed vs someone who isn't. Yes, in a large complex project, a local official would likely demand a credential/certified architect to work on such a project but it's not legally required unless the local jurisdiction has codified laws/rules/ordinances or whatever that explicitly requires it. They can politically desire and nudge but even if you are not, if you prepare a well prepared set of plans that complies with the building codes (BBR) and related regulations and the local regulations, they'll probably accept it.
The issue is about quality of work not some letters after your name. In the U.S., architects are far too caught up with letters after their name then necessarily competence.
You can "look at" anything any way you like of course. Sadly that doesn't mean it works the way that you like to look at it. Sweden is very rule-oriented place. For some reason, without having even visited, solely on the basis that the word "architect" isn't regulated, you've invented the building climate in the Sweden in your head as a laissez-faire paradise for the unqualified self-invented designer, when nothing could be further from reality. Because there's no national certification or regulation it puts a far greater onus on municipal government to act as gatekeepers - and let me assure you they do act the part well. Where have you found examples to back up your theory that "they'll probably accept" plans drawn by somebody uncredentialed - particularly one operating remotely from overseas? My experience was that the rules and formality of the process were far more elaborate and rigid than most places I've worked in the US and abroad - particularly with regard to residential projects. A largely interior renovation project of no remarkable note structurally, that takes one not-necessarily-licensed designer in the US, can require a credentialed architect and the whole slate of consultants in Scandinavia.
Balkins once purchased a Billy bookcase from Ikea and saw a Volvo on the way home, so that obviously qualifies him to practice as a Swedish architect.
I own a Volvo but I like to look at it as a Subaru.
David, Shh!
That's probably the only way Rick could make a name for himself as a designer in Sweden:
Richard I only know about Norway, not the rest of Scandinavia, but in Norway there are four levels of architects and only the first is unregulated by building authorities, and that's because the first isn't allowed to sign building permit applications or exhibits. The three higher ranks all require a professional degree, and then progressively more years of experience per designation. If you're the first level and you don't have the degree there are no exceptions and no way to move up unless you get the degree. The first level can practice and call themselves architects but they always need a degreed architect to supervise the production of the permit exhibits and sign the papers. It would be unlikely that somebody would agree to do that for your projects unless maybe you can find a Norwegian degreed architect in Oregon to supervise.
Only Denmark is left! Hell, throw in Finland...
Someone with experience in either of those two places?
Sponty,
.
Great, so I provide facts, and that's something to snub? I'm pretty sure even you will be able to google and verify that my info is indeed 100% correct. You're giving me snark because... why exactly? You don't like to base your career decisions on accurate information?
Joining the pledge then. Uh.. buh-bye!
Parting gift since you doubt personal experience: a link. See both "Protection of the Function of Architects" in Professional Title table, and note #2 under "Access to the Profession". http://www.ace-cae.eu/62/
You know he's going to tell you how his interpretation of norwegian law is better than the Architects' Council of Europe and your personal experience put together, right? Because, you know, 10 years of community college AND he used to have a reindeer sweater.
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