Brud-G, you have to read Balkins' posts more carefully. He didn't say he would be drafting when he died. He said that he would probably die "at the drafting table." He could be 'at the drafting table' for any number of reasons other than drafting. He could be using it as a desktop for his computer and he could die responding to any number of internet forum threads. He could be using it as a dinner table and choke to death on a carrot. He could be using it as a roof when he has no money and home and he dies from exposure.
Oct 7, 15 2:53 pm ·
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Besides this 3 to 6 month safety net issue, at the rate you're going what are you planning to do about some provision for when you're too old to work? You're in your mid 30s - you should have a solid start on a nest egg by now.
Think about it: even IF you believe social security will still exist, AND you don't retire until you're 75, AND you only want to live the lifestyle in your retirement that you could live today on an income of less than 30k per year, you should be saving a minimum of $500 per month right now for that very meager and brief retirement. If the idea of saving even 6 months of living expenses is a wild pipe dream to you, then what you're doing is NOT working.
kjdt,
Frank Lloyd Wright was working into his 90s. Do old to work? There maybe medical issues in ones life from doing heavy physical work. All kinds of issues can be navigated. This isn't a profession where people have nest eggs that will be there when they retire. Unless you only work on hospitals and medical related projects, it is highly unlikely an architect is going to have that kind of stability to presume. If they are lucky to not have other competitors, they would be in good shape. Otherwise, it doesn't happen that way.
If I am going to make money beyond what the economy and market will allow, it is going to have to come from outside of architecture. Architecture is the most unstable occupation there is in the United States when it comes to financial stability. In general, Architects don't make their nest egg through architecture.
Oct 7, 15 2:58 pm ·
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Everyday_Intern,
Ironically, so true. Anything can be what happens not necessarily drafting. Never know what happens. Brud-G is probably right on my original intent but your point is valid as well. It can be anything.
Balkins-2012 bureau of labor statistics (most current data) says that architects make a median wage of $73,090 annually. That's enough for a single man living in his parent's basement to build a nest egg.
It just never ceases to amaze me how many times you say "it just doesn't happen that way in architecture" to everything I say about it - when I'm actually in the profession and you've spent a grand total of a few days in all of your architecture firm experience combined.
Look, I'm not a millionaire and likely will never be if I stay in architecture. But, I make a reasonable salary - and by reasonable I mean one that allows me to own a home, a car, pay my student loans and the rest of my bills, own shoes and furniture and a dog, take a vacation now and then, fix the roof when it needs it, buy a new refrigerator when the old one conks out, eat out when I want to, contribute to my 401k at the amount that will keep me on track to have the amount that I need to live the lifestyle that I want to live at 70-something...
I'm able to do those things because I've been working in the profession, in positions with progressing responsibility and corresponding compensation. You aren't able to do those things because you're unwilling to take the first baby steps, involving some years of work that you may feel is beneath you, and some scrimping and saving to be able to afford to relocate to where that work can be found.
If you stay in your current "business", in its current location, doing its current project types, you're never going to earn enough to raise your standard of living beyond that of a community college student living with his parents.
Look, you've got enough experience and skills to put together a resume to get a foot in the door for a production position in a firm. There's no reason to be lolling around, waiting for the odd deck design project to come in, while doing shifts as janitor at the movie theater.
Oct 7, 15 3:22 pm ·
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rob_c:
They didn't get all that from architecture.
BLS doesn't ascertain how the architect actually got their money.
I think you'd have a better shot if you send the same materials to all of them. There aren't 805 firms - there might be 805 positions - but just send one set of materials to each firm.
Don't individually target them - you're entry-level, it's just not necessary. Take a generalist approach.
You really don't have anything to lose - at worst you make some contacts! There's no expense except some time - and you've got that.
I broke 6 figures before leaving my last job to go off on my own. I was saving a shitload of money because when you're taking on side jobs and working full time, you have zero time to spend money on random things. In fact, part of the reason I was able to start off on my own was saving that most of that money from the side work.
Oct 7, 15 4:19 pm ·
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Alright, at worst, I no job at this time is just time to keep building portfolio of work. I got time for that, too! I can step into the stock market as a sort of portfolio of works in its own right.
It makes contacts as you said. Perhaps, if the firm isn't directly competing in the same market sector as my business, I can still work with that to some degree so as to shield liability concerns. I would prefer to finish the AAS in historic preservation for what I mentioned before and it makes it easier to explain and market. It looks better than leaving two degrees programs uncompleted. I will work to complete the AAS degree so it is completed in June 2016.
Technically, $750 should cover the remaining tuition and fees. I'm already working towards figuring that out. About $1000 total when budgeting for materials and supplies. In effect, it would mean that I only have to work for an architect for about 7 to 8 years or so and begin ARE after 4 years of experience.
While in the meantime of doing this, I might as well get crackin' on EPC.
Balkins, send your resume to every AIA office in Seattle and Bellevue. No excuses. People told you to do that before over a month ago. But you never did it. You just jerked off about comadores and argued with successful business owners on this forum. Can you post a picture right now of one built project that is over 1,000 SF? No excuses about how the photos are in al gores lock box or got damaged in the storm of 1919 and now you can't go back to take more.
Oct 7, 15 4:20 pm ·
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null pointer,
I side stepped the cover letter in the past. I guess that will work.
I don't think he even needs to show built work. He did a CAD certificate program, for which he completed some sort of CD set - that should be enough to show he's computer literate and understands a drawings set...
Richard I don't think you need to explain unfinished associate degrees - list them on your resume as "coursework" in historic preservation, CAD, etc. (which implies specialized continuing ed - no degree necessarily expected).
Seriously you need to get a real full time job NOW. Having to "think about" and "work on" how you're going to scrape together $750 for tuition, when you're 35, for an associate degree that nobody's ever going to care about, is just sad. Stop puttering around waiting for $750 to drop from the sky while you waste half of your earning years.
Who cares if you can start a record in California on the basis of an associate degree? What's that going to do for you? You can start a record on the basis of having full time experience in a firm too, and that will give you direct experience, and money. Stop giving your money and time to that community college. Think hard: what has it gotten you in the 10+ years you've been attending it? If you were making viable business connections they'd be panning out long before now. If it was making you marketable by word of mouth you'd have a job, or projects would be coming to you. It's not helping you. Stop spending money and time on it.
EPC is another waste of time. Why spend your hours doing unpaid assignments about imaginary projects? For what? A few days or weeks of IDP?
Put your time, right now, toward getting a paying job. Then use the hours at the paying job to not only get paid, but earn IDP hours AND real experience that will help you move up the career ladder.
As for the stock market: are you kidding?? You don't even have $750 for tuition or $500 for food. With what money are you going to get in the market? You'd soon lose anything you have in fees.
EPC is a stalling technique. So is the stock market, and community college.
Get. A. Job.
I haven't received your resume yet. I'm waiting....
Oct 7, 15 5:14 pm ·
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kjdt,
California experience path is 8 years. Washington state in 9 years. For reciprocity sake, even if I got initial licensure in California, 9 years experience would be best documented so I can get that done via pre-licensure experience before reciprocity.
The CWE work experience can be a paid work experience. It doesn't have to be free.
The reason for completing the degree and all that is I would get 1 full-time year experience on the California licensing law. Add the EPC and I can be essentially 2 years with 1800+ EPC hours. That's not a few days or few weeks. Sorry, I didn't mean stock market but stock plans market.
That means 9 years down to 7 years. 5 years to taking the ARE down to 3 years after June 2016. That's the reason behind a little wait as I can be 1 year in on the IDP by completing the EPC. Completing EPC and the rest of the degree is a fair way to get 2 years instead of starting with 6 months experience from a non-architecture related associates degree.
Was going to say the same thing about the EPC as kjdt just did. Unless you only need 8 or so hours in a particular area to finish IDP and just got laid off, it's a waste of time. You're better off getting a job instead of spending time getting supplemental experience.
Oct 7, 15 5:28 pm ·
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1800 hours of IDP supplementary hours needed to complete the entire IDP program and the degree.
Yes, it is 792 U.S. employers listed in the Active Employers section. 805 world-wide.
Most of them have one job position. It might take a while to send that to you personally when there is a long list to go through.
Balkins, you'd better review the IDP Guidelines. NCARB only allows you to earn a maximum of 600 hours using EPC total, and up to 40 in each category. You're better off getting a job.
Oct 7, 15 5:35 pm ·
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I might as well be working on them while waiting on jobs, right? It can be a year before a job position is secured that will work for me and the employer.
Oct 7, 15 5:36 pm ·
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Everyday Intern,
Read it carefully! Some states do require the full IDP like Washington state. California may not require it but the whole IDP 5600 training hours is accepted by California. You can keep logging all your hours into the E-EVR until you have all the hours needed to satisfy California experience requirement and other states.
No, you might as well not be working on them while waiting on jobs. Waiting on jobs will never get you a job. It's called a job search, not a job wait.
Why would you spend a year waiting on a job while simultaneously getting 15 weeks of EPC credit for IDP? Spend 15 weeks really looking for work and then get 37 weeks of real work experience to put toward IDP in that same time ... more if you find a job faster.
In the job market in Seattle right now, if you can't find work as a draftsman in 15 weeks, you probably won't find work in a year.
Oct 7, 15 5:43 pm ·
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Lets say I apply to all these employers. Who will respond? Who will reject me? There will be a number of those. Who will will employ me? Then I have to accept the job especially if it requires moving and to what extent. This can take time.
You may earn a maximum of 40 hours in each of the IDP experience areas by completing any combination of the following NCARB-recognized supplemental experience opportunities:
• CSI Certification: CCS & CCCA
• Community-Based Design Center/Collaborative
• Design Competitions
• Emerging Professional’s Companion (EPC)
• NCARB’s Professional Conduct Monograph
• Site Visit With Mentor
You may not earn more than 600 hours through any combination of these qualifying supplemental experience opportunities.
(emphasis by NCARB)
Oct 7, 15 5:49 pm ·
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E_I,
There is always a wait. Yes, it is job searching but finding one that is mutually workable is one that takes time and patience. Moving to New York isn't a reality for me, financially and would be very unlikely to be mutually beneficial because moving across the continent is expensive. You should know. I'm not interested in living like a gypsy. Otherwise, I might as well buy a motor coach... screw a house.
Unless they offer some sort of financial assistance for moving, that's unlikely.
Therefore, a more closer location is probably more feasible. It isn't like I am going to be looking for apartments in some other city unless I am accepted into a job because frankly, why in the world would I commit to an apartment without a job in the area. That would be stupid.
EPC can provide up to not 15 weeks but up to 1624 IDP training hours (double-checked). Add that with a few other sources for IDP training hours and I would be at that level.
Oct 7, 15 5:58 pm ·
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WRONG!
E_I,
EPC may not provide you more than 600 IDP core hours as a supplementary experience. Read on. There is supplemental core and supplemental elective (not listed under.... ADDITIONAL OPPORTUNITIES FOR JURISDICTIONAL EXPERIENCE REQUIREMENTS)
I can get 1800 hours total via EPC including the hours that goes towards core hours.
Oct 7, 15 6:02 pm ·
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It doesn't do many any good for me or the architect employer employing me to a production work if I am not familiar with tools like Revit or some other software that some new wiz kid who is taught in college Revit. Revit wasn't majorly taught in college when I took CAD. I have dabbled with Revit but I haven't applied it in practice because it is just cumbersome and tedious to work with to design additions, remodels, renovation and residential new construction.
It was not something that colleges and universities had quite yet adopted into the curriculum. Some may have adopted it earlier than others but as a norm, it wasn't.
Oh, I see what you're looking at now, additional opportunities for jurisdictional experience requirements. These are those hours that only specific jurisdictions require. I know you have also been looking at Washington for getting licensed, so 3 years experience is currently required by the state.
The thing is, if you've been working and been recording IDP, you would know that generally fulfilling additional experience requirements are less of an issue than trying to get all the hours you need in the various experience areas. Those are the core hours, of which you can only count up to 600 total and 40 in each category using EPC. Most candidates recording hours will have met the extra jurisdictional hours before they finish all of the 5600 necessary IDP hours in the right categories.
Anyone out there waiting to finish their 3 years experience for Washington having completed IDP already? What about trying to get those final hours to complete IDP ... how long has it taken you ... more than 3 years?
Feel free to count all 1800 hours you can through EPC. I won't stop you. I will fill you in on a little secret though ... you will be much better off in the long run spending your time getting paid for your experience with money and IDP hours, rather than just IDP hours.
balkins, all you are doing is making up excuses. countless people on here have tried to help you. an employer in seattle may hire you and train you to do revit. you're all excuses. you have zero balls to do anything with your life. stop wasting everyones time on this forum.
Plenty of what was written then still holds true today ... a sample:
"Learn CAD, or Rhino, or Sketchup, or 3DS Max, or Microstation, or even Revit ... yes, I said Revit (I've even said it before, way up there in the comments).
I don't think it really matters what you learn as long as you understand that the software is not going to make you an architect. You need to be proficient in whatever software your employer is going to require of you so go ahead and learn it. But don't fool yourself into thinking that if you attain some level of expertise or mastery in a particular program you have a golden ticket to the profession."
Oct 7, 15 6:47 pm ·
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I'm competing with B.Arch graduates and M.Arch graduates.... right?
Yes but you're not the architect. You're the draftsman. That is what they hire you for 'production' work not design work. A classic colloquial term used: CAD Monkey.
When your job is productivity than speed of performing the work and getting the job done fast is what they hire someone in production to do. They are looking at how fast you get the job done and the faster you do it at the lowest pay, the more they will keep you. You have to do it better AND faster than the other guy or it be you that is laid off.
You have to know your tools you are using to a level where you don't think about how to use the tool. You need to know how to use the CAD tools like a person knows how to sign their name with a pen.
I'm not looking to jump into that kind of high pace rat race.
Often people who graduate from technical schools and CAD programs have better CAD skills than B.Arch and particularly M.Arch grads. Using M.Arch credits on software electives is kind of a waste and most of us didn't do that. My M.Arch program used to offer a 2-weekend CAD course to graduating students at the very end of the last semester, and that was all we had when we started making the rounds of interviews. Sure, there are some wiz kids who do focus heavily on software, but those types aren't generally graduating from M.Arch programs with the goal to work their way up through the ranks of production drafters...
Stop worrying about who you're competing against and just APPLY. You're not competing against anyone at all by sitting around not trying: that's an automatic forfeit and everyone single one of those people who are out there applying for jobs have already beaten you!
There is absolutely no valid excuse for putting this off any longer. Make a resume - get it done by end of day tomorrow. Put together some work samples - don't worry about layout - just scan a few pages. If you don't have equipment to do that at home, go to an office supply store or Kinkos or anywhere that can scan and make you some pdfs. Start emailing by Saturday at the latest.
You've been calling yourself a "building designer" for 9 years and don't even have 9 projects to your name. If you'd spent those 9 years in firms you'd be licensable by now, and making a salary of enough to get your own place and live an adult life. If you dont stop frittering away your time with excuses and diversions you're going to spend the next nine years the same way.
You're doing it again: telling those of us who are actually in architecture firms what it's like to work in a firm. Stop doing that. Most firms train newbies - because even if they know the software they don't know it the way that firm uses it, and they don't know that firm's standards, and so on. Nobody expects a person in their first full time architecture firm job to hit the ground running. Stop talking yourself out of even trying.
why such a focus on becoming an architect or a draftsman? just cut that cord and move on.
people need someone that can fix shit. get on some local facebook groups in your neighborhood and when someone says they need someone to patch a hole in their wall, or install a new sink, or build a deck, then go do it and get paid. that's where the jobs are.
^agree, or how about actually building the frigging business that you supposedly have? seems like you are legally allowed to do quite alot in oregon...seems like ego and stubborness is clouding your ability to move forward...I know a couple who design high end homes that are on the cover of all the fancy arch sites and mags...they are not licensed...they didnt let that stop them...just throw a few bucks to an engineer and problem solved...
Oct 7, 15 8:36 pm ·
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curtkram,
ORS 701
CCB might have an issue with that. Got to be watchful of that.
I'm doing the Cooperative Work Experience with an organization that isn't the College, the CWE director is not the 'client' / 'worksite supervisor'.
Oct 7, 15 8:42 pm ·
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jla-x,
There are additional things in the process. I can always apply to jobs but some are pushing to apply when I am still looking at solutions. Economy fluctuates. Part of what I am looking at doing over the next 6 months is building up the business.
Adding a business partner who is licensed for projects in another state. If I get licensed even as a contractor, I can work around some of the regulatory stuff of Oregon using Oregon law to work around things. There are always a means to an end.
Right now, I have the CWE Cooperative work experience class. I have a few other classes.
Tangent topic: This is slightly longer than an hour.
Since I am a building designer, why not step up the ante. There is several market sectors for building design not only locally but nationally as well as market my historic preservation background. When the money is right, also get the construction contractor license and take care of construction management / subcontracting the trades.
NCBDC certification is an option as well to further market.
Bottom line: There has to be plenty of room for improving income. I just have to market myself to a broader market than just Astoria, Oregon.
Oct 7, 15 9:40 pm ·
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Well... probably more than *just*. Lets say, market more effectively.
NCARB Says my School is not accredited, but it is....
^^ Drafting what??
edit: reply to wik-b's comment 2 posts up
LOL YOU'RE SO FUNNY LOL LOL LOL
Whatever. Who the hell knows what it would be in 50 years. All we can do is guess.
Brud-G, you have to read Balkins' posts more carefully. He didn't say he would be drafting when he died. He said that he would probably die "at the drafting table." He could be 'at the drafting table' for any number of reasons other than drafting. He could be using it as a desktop for his computer and he could die responding to any number of internet forum threads. He could be using it as a dinner table and choke to death on a carrot. He could be using it as a roof when he has no money and home and he dies from exposure.
Besides this 3 to 6 month safety net issue, at the rate you're going what are you planning to do about some provision for when you're too old to work? You're in your mid 30s - you should have a solid start on a nest egg by now.
Think about it: even IF you believe social security will still exist, AND you don't retire until you're 75, AND you only want to live the lifestyle in your retirement that you could live today on an income of less than 30k per year, you should be saving a minimum of $500 per month right now for that very meager and brief retirement. If the idea of saving even 6 months of living expenses is a wild pipe dream to you, then what you're doing is NOT working.
kjdt,
Frank Lloyd Wright was working into his 90s. Do old to work? There maybe medical issues in ones life from doing heavy physical work. All kinds of issues can be navigated. This isn't a profession where people have nest eggs that will be there when they retire. Unless you only work on hospitals and medical related projects, it is highly unlikely an architect is going to have that kind of stability to presume. If they are lucky to not have other competitors, they would be in good shape. Otherwise, it doesn't happen that way.
If I am going to make money beyond what the economy and market will allow, it is going to have to come from outside of architecture. Architecture is the most unstable occupation there is in the United States when it comes to financial stability. In general, Architects don't make their nest egg through architecture.
Everyday_Intern,
Ironically, so true. Anything can be what happens not necessarily drafting. Never know what happens. Brud-G is probably right on my original intent but your point is valid as well. It can be anything.
I left it open enough for interpretation.
It just never ceases to amaze me how many times you say "it just doesn't happen that way in architecture" to everything I say about it - when I'm actually in the profession and you've spent a grand total of a few days in all of your architecture firm experience combined.
Look, I'm not a millionaire and likely will never be if I stay in architecture. But, I make a reasonable salary - and by reasonable I mean one that allows me to own a home, a car, pay my student loans and the rest of my bills, own shoes and furniture and a dog, take a vacation now and then, fix the roof when it needs it, buy a new refrigerator when the old one conks out, eat out when I want to, contribute to my 401k at the amount that will keep me on track to have the amount that I need to live the lifestyle that I want to live at 70-something...
I'm able to do those things because I've been working in the profession, in positions with progressing responsibility and corresponding compensation. You aren't able to do those things because you're unwilling to take the first baby steps, involving some years of work that you may feel is beneath you, and some scrimping and saving to be able to afford to relocate to where that work can be found.
If you stay in your current "business", in its current location, doing its current project types, you're never going to earn enough to raise your standard of living beyond that of a community college student living with his parents.
Look, you've got enough experience and skills to put together a resume to get a foot in the door for a production position in a firm. There's no reason to be lolling around, waiting for the odd deck design project to come in, while doing shifts as janitor at the movie theater.
rob_c:
They didn't get all that from architecture.
BLS doesn't ascertain how the architect actually got their money.
Rob, those numbers are in line with the market I practice in.
Balkins, someone here offered you an "in". Take it and run. Maybe start building up some experience to back your claims.
N.S.
It helps to know who I would be applying to. There are 805 employers currently listing jobs on this site.
That would require 805 cover letters. 805 portfolios. 805 variation on the resume. Each one targetted to each employer.
Rather, I like to trim that long list down to a more manageable level.
I think you'd have a better shot if you send the same materials to all of them. There aren't 805 firms - there might be 805 positions - but just send one set of materials to each firm.
Don't individually target them - you're entry-level, it's just not necessary. Take a generalist approach.
You really don't have anything to lose - at worst you make some contacts! There's no expense except some time - and you've got that.
I broke 6 figures before leaving my last job to go off on my own. I was saving a shitload of money because when you're taking on side jobs and working full time, you have zero time to spend money on random things. In fact, part of the reason I was able to start off on my own was saving that most of that money from the side work.
Alright, at worst, I no job at this time is just time to keep building portfolio of work. I got time for that, too! I can step into the stock market as a sort of portfolio of works in its own right.
It makes contacts as you said. Perhaps, if the firm isn't directly competing in the same market sector as my business, I can still work with that to some degree so as to shield liability concerns. I would prefer to finish the AAS in historic preservation for what I mentioned before and it makes it easier to explain and market. It looks better than leaving two degrees programs uncompleted. I will work to complete the AAS degree so it is completed in June 2016.
Technically, $750 should cover the remaining tuition and fees. I'm already working towards figuring that out. About $1000 total when budgeting for materials and supplies. In effect, it would mean that I only have to work for an architect for about 7 to 8 years or so and begin ARE after 4 years of experience.
While in the meantime of doing this, I might as well get crackin' on EPC.
http://epcompanion.org/
I been procrastinating on this so lets figure out getting this done so I would just be closer to getting the stuff done and completed.
Also, I probably wrote 1 cover letter, ever.
All those job postings that require cover letters are full of shit. The most important cover letter is the email to which you attach your resume.
Balkins, send your resume to every AIA office in Seattle and Bellevue. No excuses. People told you to do that before over a month ago. But you never did it. You just jerked off about comadores and argued with successful business owners on this forum. Can you post a picture right now of one built project that is over 1,000 SF? No excuses about how the photos are in al gores lock box or got damaged in the storm of 1919 and now you can't go back to take more.
null pointer,
I side stepped the cover letter in the past. I guess that will work.
I don't think he even needs to show built work. He did a CAD certificate program, for which he completed some sort of CD set - that should be enough to show he's computer literate and understands a drawings set...
Richard I don't think you need to explain unfinished associate degrees - list them on your resume as "coursework" in historic preservation, CAD, etc. (which implies specialized continuing ed - no degree necessarily expected).
Seriously you need to get a real full time job NOW. Having to "think about" and "work on" how you're going to scrape together $750 for tuition, when you're 35, for an associate degree that nobody's ever going to care about, is just sad. Stop puttering around waiting for $750 to drop from the sky while you waste half of your earning years.
Who cares if you can start a record in California on the basis of an associate degree? What's that going to do for you? You can start a record on the basis of having full time experience in a firm too, and that will give you direct experience, and money. Stop giving your money and time to that community college. Think hard: what has it gotten you in the 10+ years you've been attending it? If you were making viable business connections they'd be panning out long before now. If it was making you marketable by word of mouth you'd have a job, or projects would be coming to you. It's not helping you. Stop spending money and time on it.
EPC is another waste of time. Why spend your hours doing unpaid assignments about imaginary projects? For what? A few days or weeks of IDP?
Put your time, right now, toward getting a paying job. Then use the hours at the paying job to not only get paid, but earn IDP hours AND real experience that will help you move up the career ladder.
As for the stock market: are you kidding?? You don't even have $750 for tuition or $500 for food. With what money are you going to get in the market? You'd soon lose anything you have in fees.
EPC is a stalling technique. So is the stock market, and community college.
Get. A. Job.
I haven't received your resume yet. I'm waiting....
kjdt,
California experience path is 8 years. Washington state in 9 years. For reciprocity sake, even if I got initial licensure in California, 9 years experience would be best documented so I can get that done via pre-licensure experience before reciprocity.
The CWE work experience can be a paid work experience. It doesn't have to be free.
The reason for completing the degree and all that is I would get 1 full-time year experience on the California licensing law. Add the EPC and I can be essentially 2 years with 1800+ EPC hours. That's not a few days or few weeks. Sorry, I didn't mean stock market but stock plans market.
That means 9 years down to 7 years. 5 years to taking the ARE down to 3 years after June 2016. That's the reason behind a little wait as I can be 1 year in on the IDP by completing the EPC. Completing EPC and the rest of the degree is a fair way to get 2 years instead of starting with 6 months experience from a non-architecture related associates degree.
Was going to say the same thing about the EPC as kjdt just did. Unless you only need 8 or so hours in a particular area to finish IDP and just got laid off, it's a waste of time. You're better off getting a job instead of spending time getting supplemental experience.
1800 hours of IDP supplementary hours needed to complete the entire IDP program and the degree.
Yes, it is 792 U.S. employers listed in the Active Employers section. 805 world-wide.
Most of them have one job position. It might take a while to send that to you personally when there is a long list to go through.
Balkins, you'd better review the IDP Guidelines. NCARB only allows you to earn a maximum of 600 hours using EPC total, and up to 40 in each category. You're better off getting a job.
I might as well be working on them while waiting on jobs, right? It can be a year before a job position is secured that will work for me and the employer.
Everyday Intern,
Read it carefully! Some states do require the full IDP like Washington state. California may not require it but the whole IDP 5600 training hours is accepted by California. You can keep logging all your hours into the E-EVR until you have all the hours needed to satisfy California experience requirement and other states.
you aren't waiting on jobs, you fucking moron.
No, you might as well not be working on them while waiting on jobs. Waiting on jobs will never get you a job. It's called a job search, not a job wait.
Why would you spend a year waiting on a job while simultaneously getting 15 weeks of EPC credit for IDP? Spend 15 weeks really looking for work and then get 37 weeks of real work experience to put toward IDP in that same time ... more if you find a job faster.
In the job market in Seattle right now, if you can't find work as a draftsman in 15 weeks, you probably won't find work in a year.
Lets say I apply to all these employers. Who will respond? Who will reject me? There will be a number of those. Who will will employ me? Then I have to accept the job especially if it requires moving and to what extent. This can take time.
You may earn a maximum of 40 hours in each of the IDP experience areas by completing any combination of the following NCARB-recognized supplemental experience opportunities:
• CSI Certification: CCS & CCCA
• Community-Based Design Center/Collaborative
• Design Competitions
• Emerging Professional’s Companion (EPC)
• NCARB’s Professional Conduct Monograph
• Site Visit With Mentor
You may not earn more than 600 hours through any combination of these qualifying supplemental experience opportunities.
(emphasis by NCARB)
E_I,
There is always a wait. Yes, it is job searching but finding one that is mutually workable is one that takes time and patience. Moving to New York isn't a reality for me, financially and would be very unlikely to be mutually beneficial because moving across the continent is expensive. You should know. I'm not interested in living like a gypsy. Otherwise, I might as well buy a motor coach... screw a house.
Unless they offer some sort of financial assistance for moving, that's unlikely.
Therefore, a more closer location is probably more feasible. It isn't like I am going to be looking for apartments in some other city unless I am accepted into a job because frankly, why in the world would I commit to an apartment without a job in the area. That would be stupid.
EPC can provide up to not 15 weeks but up to 1624 IDP training hours (double-checked). Add that with a few other sources for IDP training hours and I would be at that level.
WRONG!
E_I,
EPC may not provide you more than 600 IDP core hours as a supplementary experience. Read on. There is supplemental core and supplemental elective (not listed under.... ADDITIONAL OPPORTUNITIES FOR JURISDICTIONAL EXPERIENCE REQUIREMENTS)
Read Pages: 30-33
and
http://www.aia.org/aiaucmp/groups/aia/documents/pdf/aiab097761.pdf
IDP July Guideline (current),
I can get 1800 hours total via EPC including the hours that goes towards core hours.
It doesn't do many any good for me or the architect employer employing me to a production work if I am not familiar with tools like Revit or some other software that some new wiz kid who is taught in college Revit. Revit wasn't majorly taught in college when I took CAD. I have dabbled with Revit but I haven't applied it in practice because it is just cumbersome and tedious to work with to design additions, remodels, renovation and residential new construction.
It was not something that colleges and universities had quite yet adopted into the curriculum. Some may have adopted it earlier than others but as a norm, it wasn't.
Oh, I see what you're looking at now, additional opportunities for jurisdictional experience requirements. These are those hours that only specific jurisdictions require. I know you have also been looking at Washington for getting licensed, so 3 years experience is currently required by the state.
The thing is, if you've been working and been recording IDP, you would know that generally fulfilling additional experience requirements are less of an issue than trying to get all the hours you need in the various experience areas. Those are the core hours, of which you can only count up to 600 total and 40 in each category using EPC. Most candidates recording hours will have met the extra jurisdictional hours before they finish all of the 5600 necessary IDP hours in the right categories.
Anyone out there waiting to finish their 3 years experience for Washington having completed IDP already? What about trying to get those final hours to complete IDP ... how long has it taken you ... more than 3 years?
Feel free to count all 1800 hours you can through EPC. I won't stop you. I will fill you in on a little secret though ... you will be much better off in the long run spending your time getting paid for your experience with money and IDP hours, rather than just IDP hours.
balkins, all you are doing is making up excuses. countless people on here have tried to help you. an employer in seattle may hire you and train you to do revit. you're all excuses. you have zero balls to do anything with your life. stop wasting everyones time on this forum.
I think you'd be surprised at how many firms are still not fully invested in Revit. You could find production work just fine with the skills you have.
Want to be an Architect?; Don't Learn Revit
Plenty of what was written then still holds true today ... a sample:
"Learn CAD, or Rhino, or Sketchup, or 3DS Max, or Microstation, or even Revit ... yes, I said Revit (I've even said it before, way up there in the comments).
I don't think it really matters what you learn as long as you understand that the software is not going to make you an architect. You need to be proficient in whatever software your employer is going to require of you so go ahead and learn it. But don't fool yourself into thinking that if you attain some level of expertise or mastery in a particular program you have a golden ticket to the profession."
I'm competing with B.Arch graduates and M.Arch graduates.... right?
E_I,
Yes but you're not the architect. You're the draftsman. That is what they hire you for 'production' work not design work. A classic colloquial term used: CAD Monkey.
When your job is productivity than speed of performing the work and getting the job done fast is what they hire someone in production to do. They are looking at how fast you get the job done and the faster you do it at the lowest pay, the more they will keep you. You have to do it better AND faster than the other guy or it be you that is laid off.
You have to know your tools you are using to a level where you don't think about how to use the tool. You need to know how to use the CAD tools like a person knows how to sign their name with a pen.
I'm not looking to jump into that kind of high pace rat race.
Often people who graduate from technical schools and CAD programs have better CAD skills than B.Arch and particularly M.Arch grads. Using M.Arch credits on software electives is kind of a waste and most of us didn't do that. My M.Arch program used to offer a 2-weekend CAD course to graduating students at the very end of the last semester, and that was all we had when we started making the rounds of interviews. Sure, there are some wiz kids who do focus heavily on software, but those types aren't generally graduating from M.Arch programs with the goal to work their way up through the ranks of production drafters...
Stop worrying about who you're competing against and just APPLY. You're not competing against anyone at all by sitting around not trying: that's an automatic forfeit and everyone single one of those people who are out there applying for jobs have already beaten you!
There is absolutely no valid excuse for putting this off any longer. Make a resume - get it done by end of day tomorrow. Put together some work samples - don't worry about layout - just scan a few pages. If you don't have equipment to do that at home, go to an office supply store or Kinkos or anywhere that can scan and make you some pdfs. Start emailing by Saturday at the latest.
You've been calling yourself a "building designer" for 9 years and don't even have 9 projects to your name. If you'd spent those 9 years in firms you'd be licensable by now, and making a salary of enough to get your own place and live an adult life. If you dont stop frittering away your time with excuses and diversions you're going to spend the next nine years the same way.
You're doing it again: telling those of us who are actually in architecture firms what it's like to work in a firm. Stop doing that. Most firms train newbies - because even if they know the software they don't know it the way that firm uses it, and they don't know that firm's standards, and so on. Nobody expects a person in their first full time architecture firm job to hit the ground running. Stop talking yourself out of even trying.
It sounds like a job at 15 an hour would be s step up and still under the March's and b archs
why such a focus on becoming an architect or a draftsman? just cut that cord and move on.
people need someone that can fix shit. get on some local facebook groups in your neighborhood and when someone says they need someone to patch a hole in their wall, or install a new sink, or build a deck, then go do it and get paid. that's where the jobs are.
^agree, or how about actually building the frigging business that you supposedly have? seems like you are legally allowed to do quite alot in oregon...seems like ego and stubborness is clouding your ability to move forward...I know a couple who design high end homes that are on the cover of all the fancy arch sites and mags...they are not licensed...they didnt let that stop them...just throw a few bucks to an engineer and problem solved...
curtkram,
ORS 701
CCB might have an issue with that. Got to be watchful of that.
I'm doing the Cooperative Work Experience with an organization that isn't the College, the CWE director is not the 'client' / 'worksite supervisor'.
jla-x,
There are additional things in the process. I can always apply to jobs but some are pushing to apply when I am still looking at solutions. Economy fluctuates. Part of what I am looking at doing over the next 6 months is building up the business.
Adding a business partner who is licensed for projects in another state. If I get licensed even as a contractor, I can work around some of the regulatory stuff of Oregon using Oregon law to work around things. There are always a means to an end.
Right now, I have the CWE Cooperative work experience class. I have a few other classes.
Tangent topic: This is slightly longer than an hour.
https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/recording/viewRecording/1800739831650311938/6752318979179552257/[email protected]
jla-x,
Since I am a building designer, why not step up the ante. There is several market sectors for building design not only locally but nationally as well as market my historic preservation background. When the money is right, also get the construction contractor license and take care of construction management / subcontracting the trades.
NCBDC certification is an option as well to further market.
Bottom line: There has to be plenty of room for improving income. I just have to market myself to a broader market than just Astoria, Oregon.
Well... probably more than *just*. Lets say, market more effectively.
dear god. if there's ever been someone who needs a therapist.
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