The reputation of architects to "eat their young" didn't start with me, but perhaps it can end with me. I was one of the first to write my experience down as it was happening for all to see and it was bad. I see the profession is changing, perhaps I had something to do with it?
Aug 3, 15 3:43 pm ·
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mj100,
"First, Richard, if you put as much effort into obtaining your license as you do ranting on these message boards, you would have your license by now! Second, I have no use for people would make excuses as to why their lives aren't the way they should be. Your live is the way it is because of the choices that you made. If you want things to be different in the future, you have to change what you are doing now. Also, if you were such a good building designer with many clients, how do you get the time to post such long diatribes on message boards? I'm sure this is not the only message board that you are on. This must be a full time job for you! Stop making excuses, get off your duff and just do it."
1. Being a good designer doesn't mean having a lot of client. My business is limited by law, right now to exempt buildings. The bulk of the projects in the exempt buildings are residential as there is more demand for residential projects than commercial. 2008, the recession hit. What project type was hit most by the recession? Guess what, where I am at, we are still in the recession. I haven't stepped into the stock plans market but I can tell you that when you are doing projects on a per client basis. Basically 'custom design services' be it small remodel or additions to whole design. Banks stop funding housing development entirely for a number of years since 2008. They still are lingering. Where I am at, there isn't much in realm of population growth. The biggest market where I am is renovation, restoration, remodeling, additions to existing buildings. In the 1950s, Astoria used to have 50,000 people because of the Navy and a lot of houses had bunk bed quarters in the loft areas of a lot of the homes. Since the navy discontinued their presence in Astoria, Oregon, the population rides around 9500-10,500 people since the 1960s. The existing houses and apartments can already support that many people.
Most new residential construction happens outside Astoria, Oregon itself aside from the Mill Pond development which is coming to an end soon as the available lots are all developed. Most new construction occurs in Warrenton area, county unincorporated neighborhoods, etc.
I can be Frank Lloyd Wright caliber but design skill alone doesn't make a business work very well. Do a demographic study and you'll get the idea that doing services strictly in the area isn't going to keep one busy especially when you are competing with builders doing design-build, architects, etc. There is a degree of saturation in the market for the demand. Changes for me may include stock plan market to A) build an online portfolio of designs and B) Tap a larger market area to raise capital.
I can only do direct custom design with clients within a local context. It is difficult to design a more personalized service to people far away with long distance travel. Residential projects tends to require a bit of personalized services requiring in-person communication with the client. You have to have in-person communication with the client to serve them well in custom design services. I'm not talking about custom design at all levels from modest projects to more elaborate projects.
There are other changes to approach I am working with as well. Some of which I am discussing privately.
You're right, I do need to get off my duff and make the changes. Whether I get licensure at some point, go through an NAAB accredited program, etc. will be determined as I go. Before I go back and finish the bachelor's degree, I would at least be inclined to get the stock plans market side of things going a bit. I will have difficulty getting a job for an architect while attending school because employers don't want to hire students. They want them to be graduated and no longer taking courses that would keep them from being able to work any and all of the office hours of the firm. This isn't exactly unique to architecture but architecture firm office hours are typically between 8AM to 6PM window. Very few if any are outside those hours. When I am running my own business, I can have the flexibility to work hours around my class. I will be wanting to have a cash flow if I were to attend university again... be it to finish the B.S. in Geography or completing an M.Arch degree.
The stock plans would provide for portfolio work in residential.
Either way, doing this would perhaps make me a more 'marketable' to an employer in an architecture firm than I am at the moment.
You're right.... do something and get off my duff. Some things can be sequenced however it needs to be. I don't necessarily need a degree to get licensed somewhere. I can get the NAAB accredited degree whenever but I'll play that by ear. At my age, it would be better if I make significant improvement on my business end to be a tad more marketable and then more options would arise.
You're right, I should spend less time arguing with you and put more work on my business to get it moving forward and place me into better position to either move to get a job for an architect, or other options that could arise.
Stock plans isn't an end all but a way to make myself more marketable even for custom projects including more whole building design work. Use it as a 'portfolio development' so to speak. Okay, it isn't a 'portfolio' but useful for that.
GK, nice attempt at keeping the control machine rolling. Idiotic comments like those exemplify the attitude that results in us loosing our brightest to other disciplines. I left architecture while licensed, which made me a rare creature. The notion of "cutting corners" as something that's even possible as an architect is total utter fucking bullshit. In this field, nobody has a fucking clue what they're doing. The sooner you find that out, the better off you are.
In this field, nobody has a fucking clue what they're doing.
Huh. Perhaps herein lies the root of your problem?
(Ego might be so big its blocking the view. Perhaps if you shrink it down to a manageable size...)
A lot of people have a pretty good clue what they are doing in my experience. Sure, some don't but it is what it is. Its just as preposterous, though, to claim no one has a clue as it is for the few to claim they have every clue in their possession.
How naive are you? I'd question the fact that you're even an architect.
Ever been worked in an architect of record's office? Find war notes from the poor guys at SLCE, doing work for Renzo Piano; they'll probably rephrase all my statements 500 times over.
Aug 3, 15 4:18 pm ·
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null,
Please elaborate exactly what you mean by 'no one doing anything other than a little garage additions and bathroom remodels has any idea what he or she is doing?
Be precise in what you mean and by who are you talking about in "no one".
This way, we can be sure we are on the same page in understanding what you mean.
null IMO your comments reveal you are likely stuck in a phase of development in which the struggle to resolve what an architectural problem is is as yet unresolved in your mind. hint endlessly hacking at linear algorithms with a vulnerable ego in an effort to reduce all problems to an easy 'yes' or 'no' are problems for the busy worker bees. Worker bees inhabit factories pounding out widgets. They also inhabit knowledge industries and professions. Many don't even realize their worker bee status. Most of these are the frustrated ones. They tend to think all the other bees are lazy, stupid, know nothings in their frustrated efforts to reduce all problems to the simplest linear algorithm possible. Thinking is painful for them. Thus their tireless effort to minimize the action of applying rigorous thought to a complicated problem. The frustrated worker bee doesn't even realize its their ego which is the leverage for their angst.
Aug 3, 15 4:34 pm ·
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I don't think people in our profession are customarily that math oriented in their thinking in terms of linear algorithm. They may think in terms of the K.I.S.S. principle because the more complex something is, the more opportunity of Murphy's law applies.
In more civilized terms, it means that you're learning on the fly constantly. You can draw on prior precedents, but the fact is, no one out there can hold in his or her mind all of the details and requirements necessary to construct a modern building - if they say they can, they're bullshit or they're idiots, one of the two.
You've never lived until you've seen at least one starchitect firm attempt to produce a custom window detail.
Most people are really really bad at this. There's just enough people involved in these things, that, well.. buildings happen, just as long as enough people continue to push forward. You can be 2 years out of school and be that person - the quarterback of sorts (assuming you have a receptive client) - or you can be 10 years in and do just the same.
A good architect just know how and when to surround himself with the people that can help him or her get things done.
It's why Rem was 31 when he got his first big commission and why Zaha started her firm in her late 20's and still managed to succeed. It's why certain firms hire for design sensibility and not technical talent and why other do just the opposite, and why 25-year-olds get to practice as partners in countries with strong engineering traditions (Switzerland, I'm looking at you).
I suppose a perspective that focuses exclusively on building design and construction is what you and your 'broad-minded' (undisciplined/ unfocused/ unlicensed/ unexperienced/ unexamined) cohorts who are against licensing because you can't hack it would define as a very narrow perspective.
Architecture is not only building design. To think so is incredibly limiting to the overall discipline. If you cannot understand/realize why after all your years of study then I am not sure that I can help explain it within a few paragraphs.
I have to tell you that I felt bad after my last post. I am normally not a confrontational person. I am talking to you from experience. I was 47 when I decided to go back to school and get my Master's and 51 when I actually became licensed. I was working and homeschooling my kids. My boss was not aware that I had gone back to school, so that was not an issue. There are many employers (especially larger firms) that will help you with college tuition (that might be a good way for you to go). Anyway, the biggest benefit to becoming licensed (besides the promotion and pay-raise) was it really helped my self-esteem. I think that it would help yours also.
I put it off because I was raising kids (that was my excuse!) You have the benefit of not having kids, yet. You have the passion and intelligence, you need the confidence. Most people make excuses because they lack confidence.
I also have to say that there were many times that I just wanted to throw in the towel. Licensure is more about persistence than anything else.
I wish only the best for you, Richard. I would hate for you to reach retirement age regretting that you never became licensed.
GK, still couldn't be more wrong. You really need to get better at reading between the lines. The fact that you think along the lines of problematizing architecture rather thinking along practical approaches like avoidance, evasion or just plain shit-dodging points to how little experience you must have.
Richard Balkins: Could you please start a new thread, in which those who wish to converse with you about your future could do so without sidetracking every other thread?
Then rather than throwing any other thread off course, as soon as you feel the urge to turn the topic toward you and your business and education and licensing plans or lack thereof, and local zoning, and software development, and Oregon and Washington rules and regulations, you can just invite others to move over to your What Should Richard Do thread, and pursue that over there. Ok?
Aug 3, 15 4:55 pm ·
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When designing entire buildings, we put things down on paper in go through sequences. Such as when performing engineering. Where do you begin the engineering calculations? From the top or from the bottom?
Yes, the question is a loaded question for a loaded answer. We go through it in sequencing.
I agree with your point here. We know what we are doing because we engage a process and procedure and then look between. It is not humanly possible to hold everything in mind regarding a building. Be it a house or even a commercial building. Even houses can be complicated. Sometimes, houses can be more complicated than some commercial buildings.
I've tried something like that before. 90% of the time, the discussion regarding my licensing plans and education,etc. are often responses to people like you, n.p., and others who begins the context of derailment. Take a closer look at how threads begins to be derailed. It begins when you guys are harassing me about my education,or whatever else. It begins when you place me in a position where I have to be defending myself. What you guys do are fightin' words. If you said what some of these folks said to me but in person, you be liable to getting a busted lip or a black eye or broken nose.
Think about it. That is the Irish in me. Think about it.
Sometimes I am only speaking about a tangent point but it is a minor point until you guys focus on it often out of context with the bigger point. This before long, we are off topic. My tangent points aren't always the main point. Seriously.
Aug 3, 15 5:43 pm ·
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mj,
"Hey Richard-
I have to tell you that I felt bad after my last post. I am normally not a confrontational person. I am talking to you from experience. I was 47 when I decided to go back to school and get my Master's and 51 when I actually became licensed. I was working and homeschooling my kids. My boss was not aware that I had gone back to school, so that was not an issue. There are many employers (especially larger firms) that will help you with college tuition (that might be a good way for you to go). Anyway, the biggest benefit to becoming licensed (besides the promotion and pay-raise) was it really helped my self-esteem. I think that it would help yours also.
I put it off because I was raising kids (that was my excuse!) You have the benefit of not having kids, yet. You have the passion and intelligence, you need the confidence. Most people make excuses because they lack confidence.
I also have to say that there were many times that I just wanted to throw in the towel. Licensure is more about persistence than anything else.
I wish only the best for you, Richard. I would hate for you to reach retirement age regretting that you never became licensed."
Thanks. I understand and you weren't trying to be mean. I have to sequence my way through what I need to do for licensure. There is even options of partnerships/llc options and the likes that I am exploring as well. It isn't as easy as talking about it of course. Then talking is often easier than doing. How did you pursue an on-campus M.Arch program that wouldn't have courses right in the middle of the work day. All your public university programs I had seen (and I looked at their course scheduling) and most of the courses would be between 9:00 to 6pm. Most of the courses will have starting hours of the courses before 5pm. so it would be difficult for an employer to not know when their employee is not at work when the place opens and when it closes unless the boss doesn't pay any attention.
All the online NAAB degrees I seen deliberately double the rate of tuition just because online students aren't paying for on-campus housing. Really? Why? It doesn't cost that much for online. A modern desktop can support server hosting of over 4 BILLION students. A little criticism of the programs costing so much for no justifiable reason and they can handle over a million students in a single class if they really wanted to. Sure, one main professor and a number of grading aides and all. Not a rocket science. It isn't a criticism of you mj.
I should be able to get licensed sometime. I don't want to put a date to be licensed by prematurely.
I don't see people attacking your education very often Richard. What they attack are your ill-informed responses to threads you really have no business writing in - for instance those about getting jobs in architecture firms, getting admitted to M.Arch programs, code issues related to building types you haven't worked on, licensing rules in states you don't work in, quality of life in places you clearly know little about, etc. Sure you might have spent 15 years reading about these things in forums, but when people ask questions they want the answers from people who have actually done it, not just read and talked about it.
If you'd simply read and not comment in threads that you're not qualified to write in, you wouldn't be in the position of having to defend yourself.
If you want to continue talking about your educational and licensing prospects, I agree - take it to a dedicated thread.
Aug 3, 15 7:08 pm ·
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alphabits,
Just create the thread since that is what you guys seem to want to talk about anyway.
Licensing rules are published by the licensing boards. Why don't people just talk to the licensing board. Quit getting third party opinions.
Talk to NCARB regarding NCARB policy. Go to the website. By the time a thread is created, they could have got the answer either by calling NCARB or going to their website. I do know what their website is like.
Asking you or someone else who hasn't been through the process TODAY not when you git licensed but today isn't going to help people much. You'll take 3 days and a week to respond to something that should be answered within the first 5 minutes after they posted. Any longer and they go to original source.
Everyone is qualified to read the statutes and laws of every state. It just takes going to the licensing board website and click the links to the information there and READ.
NEW POLICY for this site:
NO MORE POSTING THREADS ABOUT LICENSING PROCESS UNTIL AFTER YOU HAVE READ THE LAWS AND RULES AND SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS ON THE STATE LICENSING BOARD WEBSITE OF THE STATE IN WHICH YOU WANT TO KNOW THE LICENSING PROCESS AND ALSO AFTER HAVING MADE GOOD EFFORT TO CONTACTING THE LICENSING BOARD.
In other words, take the damn effort to answer your question before asking.
How about that !
Quality of life.... why talk about that. No one is going to have a right answer. There isn't any. Only opinions that are subjective.
I'm sure if a person donates a million dollars to an architecture school, they'll admit that person regardless of their academic background, portfolio, etc.
Code issues regarding any building types is simply looking to the adopted building codes as amended in the state where the project is located. First question to ask if not already indicated in the post is where is the proposed location of the project.
Once you have that, it is looking at the building codes and applicable state laws and rules and whatever other applicable regulations and standards. I've studied the I-codes and the amended version. Those codes are applied to ALL buildings of all types.
Don't assume that I am only familiar with IRC or ORSC.
Null I am almost convinced Balkins is a disinformation BOT, he is probably close enough to the asperger autism spectrum to nearly behave as a BOT - socially. A human not only studies codes but puts them into practice and sooner or later you learn codes are absolute as the weather(predictable on interpretation)...........SO if a bunch of archinectors want to discuss CODES and regulations in practice don't bother googling and repeating shit we have all read 100 times. also, it matters little if you KNOW all the regulations to anything,what matters is making the first correct move anf for this reason again people POST questions you can look-up.........dick dick dick
Aug 3, 15 8:30 pm ·
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GSD servers would crash running a bot with advance A.I. logic that would be needed to emulate me.
Yes. The APPLICABLE code requirements are applicable based on occupancy classification, construction type classification, seismic zone, wind zone, occupant load, etc.
I know how to apply the code. We aren't talking about that much of human logic. I don't bother memorizing the entire codes. It doesn't make sense when you have amendments, mid-cycle amendments, and full code cycle updates. When this happens over a 3 year full code cycle update, it becomes kind of moot memorizing the exact requirement.
Ok, I'm going to create a new thread for you Richard. Hopefully others who want to engage in discussion or argument with you will take it there, and ignore you elsewhere.
I believe that I had a successful career, and school – licensing exams – licenses – NCARB – and the AIA had nothing to do with it. The first four were obstacles, and the AIA was just a club I belonged to. Belonging to the AIA doesn’t make you a better architect any more than belonging to a country club makes you a better golfer.
I have erred at times thinking that the AIA could do more to help me (us) but that time would be better spent doing a basement remodel. It is what it is, many I’ve known got a lot out of it, they went on trips together, did some scholarship programs, and like Donna were active in Grassroots etc. People belong for different reasons….it’s oaky to embrace it, but I wouldn’t squeeze it.
BTW – I counted 43 posts from Richard and 27 disparaging responses, way too much on both counts. No one is forcing anyone to read posts, or respond to them, just as no one is forcing anyone to join the AIA (not yet anyway).
Olaf I thought most discussions about tower design were about dick dick dick?
null pointer, it's not true that architects don't know what they're doing, but it is true that we are often learning on the fly as we do work for new clients. This is why we're often eligible for Research & Design Tax Credit, which is something few firms take advantage of, sadly. I went to a seminar on it at an AIA conference, of all places (that worthless organization!!).
My standard line regarding learning on the fly in architecture is that we need to be smart enough to know when to ask questions regarding things that aren't our specialty. We know and can do a lot, but also have to not let our egos keep us from asking the important questions.
I'd also argue that licensure and following a code of ethics is one of many reasons architects frequently *do* seek out the expertise of others.
Carrera, please don't say anything about the AIA that is not all roses and butterflies, please. I'm so tired of your negativity! (Donna, took care of that one for ya!)
The AIA would be better if they did away with the dumb requirement of licensure for membership. Maybe then there would be a fair representation of the profession since most (dont have an exact figure?) of the people that make the wheels turn are unlicensed architects.
The AIA would be better if they did away with the dumb requirement of licensure for membership. Maybe then there would be a fair representation of the profession since most (dont have an exact figure?) of the people that make the wheels turn are unlicensed architects.
Thats like saying the prisoners ought to be licensed as prison guards because the prisoners give the prison a reason to exist. Retarded logic.
the AIA is composed of prison guards. The unlicensed are prisoners. Silly thing is the prisoners are free to become the prison guards, if they so choose.
Most of the prisoners are too busy procrastinating and whining about the crappy food, though.
Maybe the people who have graduated from architectural school need their own organization whether or not they have a license or ever plan to get their license? Certainly the unlicensed being reminded they don't even have a name as a group has to be disheartening. Many are happy doing small projects and do not care for any more aggravation from the NCARB or to sink any more excessive dues into the AIA.
Sorry, but I have to be that person again: retarded is not acceptable in polite conversation. Not that this conversation is polite, but racial epithets aren't acceptable, and "retarded" is just as bad. Use dumb.
jla-x, serious question: why is Associate AIA not acceptable for those-we-no-longer-call-interns? Is it because that's the same designation as vendors, etc. use? Also, locally our Young Architects Forum is super active; they do a lot to address issues of young practitioners, including the not-yet-licensed.
AIA threads always promise to generate lots of lulz and vitriol, and this one has certainly delivered. Never one to miss a chance to flog a dead horse, I'll pile on:
I've been a member of the AIA off-and-on for the better part of three decades. My membership is currently lapsed for non-payment of dues, though this was not intentional on my part (former employer was supposed to be paying them...didn't). In one sense, the die-hard apologists have a point, that as with any kind of organization you get out of it what you put into it. However, I have some bones to pick with that rationalization and AIA in general.
The first, of course, is that any AIA member is "putting into" the organization automatically by paying dues in the first place. At $600/yr, AIA dues are not extremely high as far as professional organizations go, but six hundred bux is six hundred bux. What does a member get for that money? A magazine subscription, the occasional cocktail party (depending on how organized your chapter is) and "professional advocacy." That's pretty much it.
Now, the mag (Architect) is okay, though frankly it was much better before it became the official mouthpiece of the AIA and became absolutely chockablock with ads and saturated with my-eyes-glaze-over conventionality. Let's be generous and value that subscription at $50/yr even though it used to be free before the AIA "sponsorship."
Again, generously, let's say you've got one cocktail party per quarter. Depending on how much you drink, that's another $40 to $120 per year or thereabouts.
Aha! an AIA partisan may say at this juncture, What about the networking?! All right. What about it? When we go to these AIA events and network with people, who are we building connections with? Other architects. Now, I try to do a fair amount of networking, but when I do so I try not to focus my energy building business relationships with my competitors. If I'm going to invest a bunch of time and energy in networking, I'm going to do it building relationships with potential clients. None of whom are members of or present at AIA networking events.
I don't mean to downplay the value of collegiality and the energy one can draw from interacting with ones peers in a shared area of interest or endeavor. But as an actual return on investment, that's a hard sell. So the networking thing rings a little hollow. Maybe it pays off if I'm looking for a job at another firm. Maybe. Beyond that? Eh.
On the other hand, if the AIA hadn't rolled over and showed its belly to DOJ with the Consent Decree, then the networking (AKA Collusion) aspect of the association might be a lot more attractive. Which leads us to the other big supposed benefit of the AIA: lobbying and "advocacy."
I have to say, from personal experience, that if the AIA is supposed to be advocating on my side, I'd really hate to see what my enemies have planned for me. AIA has consistently acted in ways which are calculated to increase it's power and access to power at the expense of the interests of professional architects. Say what you will about the AMA, they do not mess around when it comes to looking after the professional prerogatives of medical doctors. And the Bar Association? Fuggeddaboutit. That's a nice life you got there. Sure would be a shame if a lawsuit were to blow it into a million pieces because ABA got a little upset about something you said.
But the AIA? No. They're perfectly happy to saddle us all with onerous continuing education requirements which, surprise!, can only be easily met via paying into AIA-sponsored classes and credit tracking systems. But when real issues that impact us professionally, such as pricing thresholds or the appropriation of the professional title "architect" by, oh, say, every random software jockey on earth, come up, they are either absent or actively working to undermine our interests while they suck up to the powers that be. I mean, doesn't their bragging about having "full-time lobbyists" shouldered up to the public trough strike you as more than a little unseemly, particularly when our profession has been suffering setback after setback under their tutelage?
So, if I'm really going to count the "value" I get for my $600 membership fee on the public advocacy side, I'd have to say it's a negative number. Maybe even a big one. They should be paying ME for the privilege of this "advocacy." But for the sake of argument, let's just call it a wash at zero.
In case some AIA policy shill is actually reading this, PROTIP: if you are engaging in public advocacy and policy activism for my profession, I expect you to be a f***ing raging pitbull on my behalf, not a pusillanimous pantywaist who wilts at the threat of DOJ legal action.
All of which suggests that AIA dues really ought to be about 20% to 25% of what they currently are, strictly based on value provided. Either that, or membership should come with free access to AIA documents. THAT would be a value-add. Assuming you even use them, which is rarer and rarer these days, and only applies to firm owners in any case.
Sorry, but I have to be that person again: retarded is not acceptable in polite conversation. Not that this conversation is polite, but racial epithets aren't acceptable, and "retarded" is just as bad. Use dumb.
jla-x, serious question: why is Associate AIA not acceptable for those-we-no-longer-call-interns? Is it because that's the same designation as vendors, etc. use? Also, locally our Young Architects Forum is super active; they do a lot to address issues of young practitioners, including the not-yet-licensed.
agreed. Assoc AIA is not acceptable because it lumps architecture grads in with a bunch of vendors. Anyone with a few extra bucks to throw around can get it. (a certain prolific poster for example).
The entire "Assoc AIA" is a scam. Its the AIA brand selling itself for more quick dirty money by association.
Young architecture school grads need their own !exclusive! group/ brand/ title. One that speaks to the passion, drive, and commitment graduates from accredited school have demonstrated by earning their degrees.
The Young Architects Forum is reta....DUMB. Its dumb and demeaning along the same lines as "intern". You pay your dues in green, blood, sweat and tears and earn the professional education, experience, and examination only to be pigeon holed (10 years!) in the category of "Young Architect"? The AIA is reta....asinine in this regard as well.
That was an excellent post, gwharton, that raises a lot of really good points.
The only question I have is, was it the AIA that mandated continuing education, or the states? Or did AIA lobby for them? I honestly don't know. My state has a requirement for continuing education that I meet by going to the free monthly meetings of my chapter, so in effect I *do* get to meet all my CE requirements via paying the AIA dues.
Also I'm sorry for everyone whose local AIA isn't offering interesting content. Our chapter made a specific initiative to get interesting, design-oriented speakers this year, so we've had Thom Mayne (joint program with BSU), Juan Miro, a great old-timer from SOM, Deborah Berke is coming in October.....we're purposefully cutting down on the product rep events and making them more interesting. I have to say, our local Executive Director is awesome, and we have great volunteers doing fun programs.
So yes, I'm speaking from a position of a really great chapter, and the only advice I have for those who don't have the same is to get involved and try to work on it yourself. It takes time and work, not gonna lie!
All this testosterone-driven chest-pounding about the Consent Decree is misguided.
AIA has about 85,000 members - compared to 400,000 in the ABA and 250,000 in the AMA. Low numbers mean low financial resources available to fight the U.S. Department of Justice in court. To have done so would have meant bankruptcy for the Institute - and we still would not have prevailed.
You also are misguided to think a published fee schedule guarantees economic success. Lawyers and doctors don't rely on collusion to maintain their income stream - they make their own decisions about what to charge - neither the ABA nor the AMA set their fees.
thought the following was interesting. From the link above:
"Between 1960 and 1966, costs for outside consulting and technical and support staff had soared in comparison to building costs between 1960 and 1966, so architects using this method saw diminishing profit margins . The average salary for principals in firms billing more than $ 2 million per year was $ 29,629. "
plugged 29,629 into a calculator for inflation. in 1964 29,629 is equal to $225,000 in today's dollars. LOLZ. architecture sucks. How low can it go...how low can it go? Do the limbo...keep lowering that bar...thanxs AIA! What a grrreeeaaat job you've been doing with all those dues every year! LOLZ
AIA
The reputation of architects to "eat their young" didn't start with me, but perhaps it can end with me. I was one of the first to write my experience down as it was happening for all to see and it was bad. I see the profession is changing, perhaps I had something to do with it?
mj100,
"First, Richard, if you put as much effort into obtaining your license as you do ranting on these message boards, you would have your license by now! Second, I have no use for people would make excuses as to why their lives aren't the way they should be. Your live is the way it is because of the choices that you made. If you want things to be different in the future, you have to change what you are doing now. Also, if you were such a good building designer with many clients, how do you get the time to post such long diatribes on message boards? I'm sure this is not the only message board that you are on. This must be a full time job for you! Stop making excuses, get off your duff and just do it."
1. Being a good designer doesn't mean having a lot of client. My business is limited by law, right now to exempt buildings. The bulk of the projects in the exempt buildings are residential as there is more demand for residential projects than commercial. 2008, the recession hit. What project type was hit most by the recession? Guess what, where I am at, we are still in the recession. I haven't stepped into the stock plans market but I can tell you that when you are doing projects on a per client basis. Basically 'custom design services' be it small remodel or additions to whole design. Banks stop funding housing development entirely for a number of years since 2008. They still are lingering. Where I am at, there isn't much in realm of population growth. The biggest market where I am is renovation, restoration, remodeling, additions to existing buildings. In the 1950s, Astoria used to have 50,000 people because of the Navy and a lot of houses had bunk bed quarters in the loft areas of a lot of the homes. Since the navy discontinued their presence in Astoria, Oregon, the population rides around 9500-10,500 people since the 1960s. The existing houses and apartments can already support that many people.
Most new residential construction happens outside Astoria, Oregon itself aside from the Mill Pond development which is coming to an end soon as the available lots are all developed. Most new construction occurs in Warrenton area, county unincorporated neighborhoods, etc.
I can be Frank Lloyd Wright caliber but design skill alone doesn't make a business work very well. Do a demographic study and you'll get the idea that doing services strictly in the area isn't going to keep one busy especially when you are competing with builders doing design-build, architects, etc. There is a degree of saturation in the market for the demand. Changes for me may include stock plan market to A) build an online portfolio of designs and B) Tap a larger market area to raise capital.
I can only do direct custom design with clients within a local context. It is difficult to design a more personalized service to people far away with long distance travel. Residential projects tends to require a bit of personalized services requiring in-person communication with the client. You have to have in-person communication with the client to serve them well in custom design services. I'm not talking about custom design at all levels from modest projects to more elaborate projects.
There are other changes to approach I am working with as well. Some of which I am discussing privately.
You're right, I do need to get off my duff and make the changes. Whether I get licensure at some point, go through an NAAB accredited program, etc. will be determined as I go. Before I go back and finish the bachelor's degree, I would at least be inclined to get the stock plans market side of things going a bit. I will have difficulty getting a job for an architect while attending school because employers don't want to hire students. They want them to be graduated and no longer taking courses that would keep them from being able to work any and all of the office hours of the firm. This isn't exactly unique to architecture but architecture firm office hours are typically between 8AM to 6PM window. Very few if any are outside those hours. When I am running my own business, I can have the flexibility to work hours around my class. I will be wanting to have a cash flow if I were to attend university again... be it to finish the B.S. in Geography or completing an M.Arch degree.
The stock plans would provide for portfolio work in residential.
Either way, doing this would perhaps make me a more 'marketable' to an employer in an architecture firm than I am at the moment.
You're right.... do something and get off my duff. Some things can be sequenced however it needs to be. I don't necessarily need a degree to get licensed somewhere. I can get the NAAB accredited degree whenever but I'll play that by ear. At my age, it would be better if I make significant improvement on my business end to be a tad more marketable and then more options would arise.
You're right, I should spend less time arguing with you and put more work on my business to get it moving forward and place me into better position to either move to get a job for an architect, or other options that could arise.
Stock plans isn't an end all but a way to make myself more marketable even for custom projects including more whole building design work. Use it as a 'portfolio development' so to speak. Okay, it isn't a 'portfolio' but useful for that.
GK, nice attempt at keeping the control machine rolling. Idiotic comments like those exemplify the attitude that results in us loosing our brightest to other disciplines. I left architecture while licensed, which made me a rare creature. The notion of "cutting corners" as something that's even possible as an architect is total utter fucking bullshit. In this field, nobody has a fucking clue what they're doing. The sooner you find that out, the better off you are.
In this field, nobody has a fucking clue what they're doing.
Huh. Perhaps herein lies the root of your problem?
(Ego might be so big its blocking the view. Perhaps if you shrink it down to a manageable size...)
A lot of people have a pretty good clue what they are doing in my experience. Sure, some don't but it is what it is. Its just as preposterous, though, to claim no one has a clue as it is for the few to claim they have every clue in their possession.
Okay okay, let me correct myself, no one doing anything other than little garage additions and bathroom remodels has any idea what he or she is doing.
Still a preposterous proposition null.
How naive are you? I'd question the fact that you're even an architect.
Ever been worked in an architect of record's office? Find war notes from the poor guys at SLCE, doing work for Renzo Piano; they'll probably rephrase all my statements 500 times over.
null,
Please elaborate exactly what you mean by 'no one doing anything other than a little garage additions and bathroom remodels has any idea what he or she is doing?
Be precise in what you mean and by who are you talking about in "no one".
This way, we can be sure we are on the same page in understanding what you mean.
null IMO your comments reveal you are likely stuck in a phase of development in which the struggle to resolve what an architectural problem is is as yet unresolved in your mind. hint endlessly hacking at linear algorithms with a vulnerable ego in an effort to reduce all problems to an easy 'yes' or 'no' are problems for the busy worker bees. Worker bees inhabit factories pounding out widgets. They also inhabit knowledge industries and professions. Many don't even realize their worker bee status. Most of these are the frustrated ones. They tend to think all the other bees are lazy, stupid, know nothings in their frustrated efforts to reduce all problems to the simplest linear algorithm possible. Thinking is painful for them. Thus their tireless effort to minimize the action of applying rigorous thought to a complicated problem. The frustrated worker bee doesn't even realize its their ego which is the leverage for their angst.
I don't think people in our profession are customarily that math oriented in their thinking in terms of linear algorithm. They may think in terms of the K.I.S.S. principle because the more complex something is, the more opportunity of Murphy's law applies.
In more civilized terms, it means that you're learning on the fly constantly. You can draw on prior precedents, but the fact is, no one out there can hold in his or her mind all of the details and requirements necessary to construct a modern building - if they say they can, they're bullshit or they're idiots, one of the two.
You've never lived until you've seen at least one starchitect firm attempt to produce a custom window detail.
Most people are really really bad at this. There's just enough people involved in these things, that, well.. buildings happen, just as long as enough people continue to push forward. You can be 2 years out of school and be that person - the quarterback of sorts (assuming you have a receptive client) - or you can be 10 years in and do just the same.
A good architect just know how and when to surround himself with the people that can help him or her get things done.
It's why Rem was 31 when he got his first big commission and why Zaha started her firm in her late 20's and still managed to succeed. It's why certain firms hire for design sensibility and not technical talent and why other do just the opposite, and why 25-year-olds get to practice as partners in countries with strong engineering traditions (Switzerland, I'm looking at you).
Would you elaborate, please?
I suppose a perspective that focuses exclusively on building design and construction is what you and your 'broad-minded' (undisciplined/ unfocused/ unlicensed/ unexperienced/ unexamined) cohorts who are against licensing because you can't hack it would define as a very narrow perspective.
Architecture is not only building design. To think so is incredibly limiting to the overall discipline. If you cannot understand/realize why after all your years of study then I am not sure that I can help explain it within a few paragraphs.
Hey Richard-
I have to tell you that I felt bad after my last post. I am normally not a confrontational person. I am talking to you from experience. I was 47 when I decided to go back to school and get my Master's and 51 when I actually became licensed. I was working and homeschooling my kids. My boss was not aware that I had gone back to school, so that was not an issue. There are many employers (especially larger firms) that will help you with college tuition (that might be a good way for you to go). Anyway, the biggest benefit to becoming licensed (besides the promotion and pay-raise) was it really helped my self-esteem. I think that it would help yours also.
I put it off because I was raising kids (that was my excuse!) You have the benefit of not having kids, yet. You have the passion and intelligence, you need the confidence. Most people make excuses because they lack confidence.
I also have to say that there were many times that I just wanted to throw in the towel. Licensure is more about persistence than anything else.
I wish only the best for you, Richard. I would hate for you to reach retirement age regretting that you never became licensed.
MJ
Check your ego. How is it today?
If that lesson was missed in architectural school, then there is always the opportunity to figure it out today and tomorrow...
GK, still couldn't be more wrong. You really need to get better at reading between the lines. The fact that you think along the lines of problematizing architecture rather thinking along practical approaches like avoidance, evasion or just plain shit-dodging points to how little experience you must have.
Richard Balkins: Could you please start a new thread, in which those who wish to converse with you about your future could do so without sidetracking every other thread?
Then rather than throwing any other thread off course, as soon as you feel the urge to turn the topic toward you and your business and education and licensing plans or lack thereof, and local zoning, and software development, and Oregon and Washington rules and regulations, you can just invite others to move over to your What Should Richard Do thread, and pursue that over there. Ok?
When designing entire buildings, we put things down on paper in go through sequences. Such as when performing engineering. Where do you begin the engineering calculations? From the top or from the bottom?
Yes, the question is a loaded question for a loaded answer. We go through it in sequencing.
I agree with your point here. We know what we are doing because we engage a process and procedure and then look between. It is not humanly possible to hold everything in mind regarding a building. Be it a house or even a commercial building. Even houses can be complicated. Sometimes, houses can be more complicated than some commercial buildings.
OMG! Pull the string - hear him talk...
Bloopox,
What you suggest don't work in practice.
I've tried something like that before. 90% of the time, the discussion regarding my licensing plans and education,etc. are often responses to people like you, n.p., and others who begins the context of derailment. Take a closer look at how threads begins to be derailed. It begins when you guys are harassing me about my education,or whatever else. It begins when you place me in a position where I have to be defending myself. What you guys do are fightin' words. If you said what some of these folks said to me but in person, you be liable to getting a busted lip or a black eye or broken nose.
Think about it. That is the Irish in me. Think about it.
Sometimes I am only speaking about a tangent point but it is a minor point until you guys focus on it often out of context with the bigger point. This before long, we are off topic. My tangent points aren't always the main point. Seriously.
mj,
"Hey Richard-
I have to tell you that I felt bad after my last post. I am normally not a confrontational person. I am talking to you from experience. I was 47 when I decided to go back to school and get my Master's and 51 when I actually became licensed. I was working and homeschooling my kids. My boss was not aware that I had gone back to school, so that was not an issue. There are many employers (especially larger firms) that will help you with college tuition (that might be a good way for you to go). Anyway, the biggest benefit to becoming licensed (besides the promotion and pay-raise) was it really helped my self-esteem. I think that it would help yours also.
I put it off because I was raising kids (that was my excuse!) You have the benefit of not having kids, yet. You have the passion and intelligence, you need the confidence. Most people make excuses because they lack confidence.
I also have to say that there were many times that I just wanted to throw in the towel. Licensure is more about persistence than anything else.
I wish only the best for you, Richard. I would hate for you to reach retirement age regretting that you never became licensed."
Thanks. I understand and you weren't trying to be mean. I have to sequence my way through what I need to do for licensure. There is even options of partnerships/llc options and the likes that I am exploring as well. It isn't as easy as talking about it of course. Then talking is often easier than doing. How did you pursue an on-campus M.Arch program that wouldn't have courses right in the middle of the work day. All your public university programs I had seen (and I looked at their course scheduling) and most of the courses would be between 9:00 to 6pm. Most of the courses will have starting hours of the courses before 5pm. so it would be difficult for an employer to not know when their employee is not at work when the place opens and when it closes unless the boss doesn't pay any attention.
All the online NAAB degrees I seen deliberately double the rate of tuition just because online students aren't paying for on-campus housing. Really? Why? It doesn't cost that much for online. A modern desktop can support server hosting of over 4 BILLION students. A little criticism of the programs costing so much for no justifiable reason and they can handle over a million students in a single class if they really wanted to. Sure, one main professor and a number of grading aides and all. Not a rocket science. It isn't a criticism of you mj.
I should be able to get licensed sometime. I don't want to put a date to be licensed by prematurely.
I don't see people attacking your education very often Richard. What they attack are your ill-informed responses to threads you really have no business writing in - for instance those about getting jobs in architecture firms, getting admitted to M.Arch programs, code issues related to building types you haven't worked on, licensing rules in states you don't work in, quality of life in places you clearly know little about, etc. Sure you might have spent 15 years reading about these things in forums, but when people ask questions they want the answers from people who have actually done it, not just read and talked about it.
If you'd simply read and not comment in threads that you're not qualified to write in, you wouldn't be in the position of having to defend yourself.
If you want to continue talking about your educational and licensing prospects, I agree - take it to a dedicated thread.
alphabits,
Just create the thread since that is what you guys seem to want to talk about anyway.
Licensing rules are published by the licensing boards. Why don't people just talk to the licensing board. Quit getting third party opinions.
Talk to NCARB regarding NCARB policy. Go to the website. By the time a thread is created, they could have got the answer either by calling NCARB or going to their website. I do know what their website is like.
Asking you or someone else who hasn't been through the process TODAY not when you git licensed but today isn't going to help people much. You'll take 3 days and a week to respond to something that should be answered within the first 5 minutes after they posted. Any longer and they go to original source.
Everyone is qualified to read the statutes and laws of every state. It just takes going to the licensing board website and click the links to the information there and READ.
NEW POLICY for this site:
NO MORE POSTING THREADS ABOUT LICENSING PROCESS UNTIL AFTER YOU HAVE READ THE LAWS AND RULES AND SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS ON THE STATE LICENSING BOARD WEBSITE OF THE STATE IN WHICH YOU WANT TO KNOW THE LICENSING PROCESS AND ALSO AFTER HAVING MADE GOOD EFFORT TO CONTACTING THE LICENSING BOARD.
In other words, take the damn effort to answer your question before asking.
How about that !
Quality of life.... why talk about that. No one is going to have a right answer. There isn't any. Only opinions that are subjective.
I'm sure if a person donates a million dollars to an architecture school, they'll admit that person regardless of their academic background, portfolio, etc.
Code issues regarding any building types is simply looking to the adopted building codes as amended in the state where the project is located. First question to ask if not already indicated in the post is where is the proposed location of the project.
Once you have that, it is looking at the building codes and applicable state laws and rules and whatever other applicable regulations and standards. I've studied the I-codes and the amended version. Those codes are applied to ALL buildings of all types.
Don't assume that I am only familiar with IRC or ORSC.
I sometimes wonder if Balkins is a gibberish bot running in a GSD server.
Null I am almost convinced Balkins is a disinformation BOT, he is probably close enough to the asperger autism spectrum to nearly behave as a BOT - socially. A human not only studies codes but puts them into practice and sooner or later you learn codes are absolute as the weather(predictable on interpretation)...........SO if a bunch of archinectors want to discuss CODES and regulations in practice don't bother googling and repeating shit we have all read 100 times. also, it matters little if you KNOW all the regulations to anything,what matters is making the first correct move anf for this reason again people POST questions you can look-up.........dick dick dick
GSD servers would crash running a bot with advance A.I. logic that would be needed to emulate me.
fuck yeah baby - was that a Haiku?
Olaf,
Yes. The APPLICABLE code requirements are applicable based on occupancy classification, construction type classification, seismic zone, wind zone, occupant load, etc.
I know how to apply the code. We aren't talking about that much of human logic. I don't bother memorizing the entire codes. It doesn't make sense when you have amendments, mid-cycle amendments, and full code cycle updates. When this happens over a 3 year full code cycle update, it becomes kind of moot memorizing the exact requirement.
You should know that.
why are you repeating what i wrote that contradicts your own statements, BOT?
Ok, I'm going to create a new thread for you Richard. Hopefully others who want to engage in discussion or argument with you will take it there, and ignore you elsewhere.
i did it already, a few hours ago, http://archinect.com/forum/thread/133423894/wsdd
oops. Well now he'll have two. Maybe it can keep him twice as busy.
I believe that I had a successful career, and school – licensing exams – licenses – NCARB – and the AIA had nothing to do with it. The first four were obstacles, and the AIA was just a club I belonged to. Belonging to the AIA doesn’t make you a better architect any more than belonging to a country club makes you a better golfer.
I have erred at times thinking that the AIA could do more to help me (us) but that time would be better spent doing a basement remodel. It is what it is, many I’ve known got a lot out of it, they went on trips together, did some scholarship programs, and like Donna were active in Grassroots etc. People belong for different reasons….it’s oaky to embrace it, but I wouldn’t squeeze it.
BTW – I counted 43 posts from Richard and 27 disparaging responses, way too much on both counts. No one is forcing anyone to read posts, or respond to them, just as no one is forcing anyone to join the AIA (not yet anyway).
so one third of the AIA discussion has been about dick dick dick?
Olaf I thought most discussions about tower design were about dick dick dick?
null pointer, it's not true that architects don't know what they're doing, but it is true that we are often learning on the fly as we do work for new clients. This is why we're often eligible for Research & Design Tax Credit, which is something few firms take advantage of, sadly. I went to a seminar on it at an AIA conference, of all places (that worthless organization!!).
My standard line regarding learning on the fly in architecture is that we need to be smart enough to know when to ask questions regarding things that aren't our specialty. We know and can do a lot, but also have to not let our egos keep us from asking the important questions.
I'd also argue that licensure and following a code of ethics is one of many reasons architects frequently *do* seek out the expertise of others.
The AIA is not worthless, how about deficient?
Carrera, please don't say anything about the AIA that is not all roses and butterflies, please. I'm so tired of your negativity! (Donna, took care of that one for ya!)
The AIA would be better if they did away with the dumb requirement of licensure for membership. Maybe then there would be a fair representation of the profession since most (dont have an exact figure?) of the people that make the wheels turn are unlicensed architects.
And no assoc. aia is not the same.
The AIA would be better if they did away with the dumb requirement of licensure for membership. Maybe then there would be a fair representation of the profession since most (dont have an exact figure?) of the people that make the wheels turn are unlicensed architects.
Thats like saying the prisoners ought to be licensed as prison guards because the prisoners give the prison a reason to exist. Retarded logic.
Did you just call the AIA a prison?
That's pretty retarded.
the AIA is composed of prison guards. The unlicensed are prisoners. Silly thing is the prisoners are free to become the prison guards, if they so choose.
Most of the prisoners are too busy procrastinating and whining about the crappy food, though.
Maybe the people who have graduated from architectural school need their own organization whether or not they have a license or ever plan to get their license? Certainly the unlicensed being reminded they don't even have a name as a group has to be disheartening. Many are happy doing small projects and do not care for any more aggravation from the NCARB or to sink any more excessive dues into the AIA.
Sorry, but I have to be that person again: retarded is not acceptable in polite conversation. Not that this conversation is polite, but racial epithets aren't acceptable, and "retarded" is just as bad. Use dumb.
jla-x, serious question: why is Associate AIA not acceptable for those-we-no-longer-call-interns? Is it because that's the same designation as vendors, etc. use? Also, locally our Young Architects Forum is super active; they do a lot to address issues of young practitioners, including the not-yet-licensed.
AIA threads always promise to generate lots of lulz and vitriol, and this one has certainly delivered. Never one to miss a chance to flog a dead horse, I'll pile on:
I've been a member of the AIA off-and-on for the better part of three decades. My membership is currently lapsed for non-payment of dues, though this was not intentional on my part (former employer was supposed to be paying them...didn't). In one sense, the die-hard apologists have a point, that as with any kind of organization you get out of it what you put into it. However, I have some bones to pick with that rationalization and AIA in general.
The first, of course, is that any AIA member is "putting into" the organization automatically by paying dues in the first place. At $600/yr, AIA dues are not extremely high as far as professional organizations go, but six hundred bux is six hundred bux. What does a member get for that money? A magazine subscription, the occasional cocktail party (depending on how organized your chapter is) and "professional advocacy." That's pretty much it.
Now, the mag (Architect) is okay, though frankly it was much better before it became the official mouthpiece of the AIA and became absolutely chockablock with ads and saturated with my-eyes-glaze-over conventionality. Let's be generous and value that subscription at $50/yr even though it used to be free before the AIA "sponsorship."
Again, generously, let's say you've got one cocktail party per quarter. Depending on how much you drink, that's another $40 to $120 per year or thereabouts.
Aha! an AIA partisan may say at this juncture, What about the networking?! All right. What about it? When we go to these AIA events and network with people, who are we building connections with? Other architects. Now, I try to do a fair amount of networking, but when I do so I try not to focus my energy building business relationships with my competitors. If I'm going to invest a bunch of time and energy in networking, I'm going to do it building relationships with potential clients. None of whom are members of or present at AIA networking events.
I don't mean to downplay the value of collegiality and the energy one can draw from interacting with ones peers in a shared area of interest or endeavor. But as an actual return on investment, that's a hard sell. So the networking thing rings a little hollow. Maybe it pays off if I'm looking for a job at another firm. Maybe. Beyond that? Eh.
On the other hand, if the AIA hadn't rolled over and showed its belly to DOJ with the Consent Decree, then the networking (AKA Collusion) aspect of the association might be a lot more attractive. Which leads us to the other big supposed benefit of the AIA: lobbying and "advocacy."
I have to say, from personal experience, that if the AIA is supposed to be advocating on my side, I'd really hate to see what my enemies have planned for me. AIA has consistently acted in ways which are calculated to increase it's power and access to power at the expense of the interests of professional architects. Say what you will about the AMA, they do not mess around when it comes to looking after the professional prerogatives of medical doctors. And the Bar Association? Fuggeddaboutit. That's a nice life you got there. Sure would be a shame if a lawsuit were to blow it into a million pieces because ABA got a little upset about something you said.
But the AIA? No. They're perfectly happy to saddle us all with onerous continuing education requirements which, surprise!, can only be easily met via paying into AIA-sponsored classes and credit tracking systems. But when real issues that impact us professionally, such as pricing thresholds or the appropriation of the professional title "architect" by, oh, say, every random software jockey on earth, come up, they are either absent or actively working to undermine our interests while they suck up to the powers that be. I mean, doesn't their bragging about having "full-time lobbyists" shouldered up to the public trough strike you as more than a little unseemly, particularly when our profession has been suffering setback after setback under their tutelage?
So, if I'm really going to count the "value" I get for my $600 membership fee on the public advocacy side, I'd have to say it's a negative number. Maybe even a big one. They should be paying ME for the privilege of this "advocacy." But for the sake of argument, let's just call it a wash at zero.
In case some AIA policy shill is actually reading this, PROTIP: if you are engaging in public advocacy and policy activism for my profession, I expect you to be a f***ing raging pitbull on my behalf, not a pusillanimous pantywaist who wilts at the threat of DOJ legal action.
All of which suggests that AIA dues really ought to be about 20% to 25% of what they currently are, strictly based on value provided. Either that, or membership should come with free access to AIA documents. THAT would be a value-add. Assuming you even use them, which is rarer and rarer these days, and only applies to firm owners in any case.
Sorry, but I have to be that person again: retarded is not acceptable in polite conversation. Not that this conversation is polite, but racial epithets aren't acceptable, and "retarded" is just as bad. Use dumb.
jla-x, serious question: why is Associate AIA not acceptable for those-we-no-longer-call-interns? Is it because that's the same designation as vendors, etc. use? Also, locally our Young Architects Forum is super active; they do a lot to address issues of young practitioners, including the not-yet-licensed.
agreed. Assoc AIA is not acceptable because it lumps architecture grads in with a bunch of vendors. Anyone with a few extra bucks to throw around can get it. (a certain prolific poster for example).
The entire "Assoc AIA" is a scam. Its the AIA brand selling itself for more quick dirty money by association.
Young architecture school grads need their own !exclusive! group/ brand/ title. One that speaks to the passion, drive, and commitment graduates from accredited school have demonstrated by earning their degrees.
The Young Architects Forum is reta....DUMB. Its dumb and demeaning along the same lines as "intern". You pay your dues in green, blood, sweat and tears and earn the professional education, experience, and examination only to be pigeon holed (10 years!) in the category of "Young Architect"? The AIA is reta....asinine in this regard as well.
amen gwharton. Esp the part about the Consent Decree. Talk about being hollowed out and left an empty shell.
For the uninitiated:
"Why Architects Don't Charge Enough"
http://enr.construction.com/features/bizLabor/archives/050801a-1.asp
That was an excellent post, gwharton, that raises a lot of really good points.
The only question I have is, was it the AIA that mandated continuing education, or the states? Or did AIA lobby for them? I honestly don't know. My state has a requirement for continuing education that I meet by going to the free monthly meetings of my chapter, so in effect I *do* get to meet all my CE requirements via paying the AIA dues.
Also I'm sorry for everyone whose local AIA isn't offering interesting content. Our chapter made a specific initiative to get interesting, design-oriented speakers this year, so we've had Thom Mayne (joint program with BSU), Juan Miro, a great old-timer from SOM, Deborah Berke is coming in October.....we're purposefully cutting down on the product rep events and making them more interesting. I have to say, our local Executive Director is awesome, and we have great volunteers doing fun programs.
So yes, I'm speaking from a position of a really great chapter, and the only advice I have for those who don't have the same is to get involved and try to work on it yourself. It takes time and work, not gonna lie!
++gwharton, good points made...the turning point was when the DOJ turned the stallion into a gelding.
All this testosterone-driven chest-pounding about the Consent Decree is misguided.
AIA has about 85,000 members - compared to 400,000 in the ABA and 250,000 in the AMA. Low numbers mean low financial resources available to fight the U.S. Department of Justice in court. To have done so would have meant bankruptcy for the Institute - and we still would not have prevailed.
You also are misguided to think a published fee schedule guarantees economic success. Lawyers and doctors don't rely on collusion to maintain their income stream - they make their own decisions about what to charge - neither the ABA nor the AMA set their fees.
You're looking in the wrong direction guys.
Oh, and our local YAF group, too, is excellent, and do both fun drinking nights out and serious things like test prep and mentoring seminars.
thought the following was interesting. From the link above:
"Between 1960 and 1966, costs for outside consulting and technical and support staff had soared in comparison to building costs between 1960 and 1966, so architects using this method saw diminishing profit margins . The average salary for principals in firms billing more than $ 2 million per year was $ 29,629. "
plugged 29,629 into a calculator for inflation. in 1964 29,629 is equal to $225,000 in today's dollars. LOLZ. architecture sucks. How low can it go...how low can it go? Do the limbo...keep lowering that bar...thanxs AIA! What a grrreeeaaat job you've been doing with all those dues every year! LOLZ
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