Curt, is it that the Greek government doesn't care about its people, or that it has zero bargaining power at this stage?
why not answer the questions i posed towards you before asking more questions? you seem to prefer a strategy that goes nowhere, sort of like the troika.
TED, what would have been a better deal for Tspiras? Increased cashflow from the EU though a "better" bailout? That doesn't seem like it would have actually fixed anything. Just more life support for a crippled economy.
It doesn't seem like any option would have been palatable for Greeks in the immediate sense. I do think that there's room for debate about whether other options would have been better in the long-run (canceling debt and returning to the drachma, for example).
HL: You’ve said creditors objected to you because “I try and talk economics in the Eurogroup, which nobody does.” What happened when you did?
YV: It’s not that it didn’t go down well – it’s that there was point blank refusal to engage in economic arguments. Point blank. … You put forward an argument that you’ve really worked on – to make sure it’s logically coherent – and you’re just faced with blank stares. It is as if you haven’t spoken. What you say is independent of what they say. You might as well have sung the Swedish national anthem – you’d have got the same reply. And that’s startling, for somebody who’s used to academic debate. … The other side always engages. Well there was no engagement at all. It was not even annoyance, it was as if one had not spoken.
syriza can walk away; that's what the referendum was right? declare bankruptcy. print their own currency. whatever.
no solution is going to work if it doesn't create jobs and help the greek economy grow. the current solution restricts greece even more, so we know the economy won't grow in the current plan right?
if the only solution is to collapse the banks, then collapse the banks. instead of just greece getting screwed, screw everyone.
if you owe the bank a million dollars, you're in trouble. if you the bank 340,213,734,739 €, then the bank is in trouble.
why not answer the questions i posed towards you before asking more questions?
Troll strategy. Alternative (get it?). He uses seemingly innocent questions to suck people into discussion then uses avoidance, obfuscation and misdirection to try and advance his position. When he gets called out - like I did to him in the Uber thread - he runs like Patrik Schumuncher, popping up in another thread with the same line of bullshit. If you call him out again he acts all butthurt (thanks, Donna!) and blames your intolerance of differing viewpoints.
Whether he's a paid political troll or just gets his jollies off of this is irrelevant. He's still a troll.
@Orhan, Listen to the Varoufakis-Stiglitz discussion. The bankers are only looking at the contractual - accountant tick box requirements for repayment. Yanis / Stiglitz speaking macro economic principles towards reconstruction not just repayment.
TED, watching Varoufakis and listening what the newly elected Greeks were saying and ideas they were generating over the few months, all I can say now is Eurozone is not interested in ideas and or comprehensive humane plans, sensible economic plans etc... It is really fascistic. Like Merkel said, "you are gonna get on this horse or the horse is dead."
Thanks for the video, I watched it and again saw how EU is a powerhouse for few and not at all the progressive economic structure it has misidentified itself. Disliking Greeks for talking about macro economics..!!??
It is a shame an idea person like Yanis Varoufakis did not survive the so called liberal principles. But I am not surprised, it is across the board. We have same thing here, in the places affecting our lives.
some of you may like this book, only a few pages in, quotable stuff, related, and oddly enough it was in the Philosophy section with a simple cover format hadn't seen in years? "Crisis is a means of governing." (p.14)
feel like i just checked out the anarchist cookbook or something, ha...or wait I watch that crazy conservative Beck, he said order it, learn about evil....
so I finished the book and not starting an insurrection...
It's meant for France but could easily apply to the USA nearly 95%, my favorite quote, and to leave you confused, why I like Donald Trump running for president....
"An assembly is not a place for decisions but for talk, for free speech exercised without a goal." (p.122)
the stupid questions to Trump by that Fox lady and his amazingly refreshing response shows how stupid the political apparatus is in the country....the embarrassed nod by Rand Paul admitting Donald has paid for his campaign further indicates the embarassment every bull shit public servant should feel for only running for election and never actually running anything.
Grexit
Curt, is it that the Greek government doesn't care about its people, or that it has zero bargaining power at this stage?
why not answer the questions i posed towards you before asking more questions? you seem to prefer a strategy that goes nowhere, sort of like the troika.
TED, what would have been a better deal for Tspiras? Increased cashflow from the EU though a "better" bailout? That doesn't seem like it would have actually fixed anything. Just more life support for a crippled economy.
It doesn't seem like any option would have been palatable for Greeks in the immediate sense. I do think that there's room for debate about whether other options would have been better in the long-run (canceling debt and returning to the drachma, for example).
Curt, my belief was implied in the question. I don't think that Syriza has bargaining power.
http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2015/07/yanis-varoufakis-full-transcript-our-battle-save-greece
HL: You’ve said creditors objected to you because “I try and talk economics in the Eurogroup, which nobody does.” What happened when you did?
YV: It’s not that it didn’t go down well – it’s that there was point blank refusal to engage in economic arguments. Point blank. … You put forward an argument that you’ve really worked on – to make sure it’s logically coherent – and you’re just faced with blank stares. It is as if you haven’t spoken. What you say is independent of what they say. You might as well have sung the Swedish national anthem – you’d have got the same reply. And that’s startling, for somebody who’s used to academic debate. … The other side always engages. Well there was no engagement at all. It was not even annoyance, it was as if one had not spoken.
Varoufakis is now on a five-week vacation at his beach villa in Aegina. Really, a man of the people.
syriza can walk away; that's what the referendum was right? declare bankruptcy. print their own currency. whatever.
no solution is going to work if it doesn't create jobs and help the greek economy grow. the current solution restricts greece even more, so we know the economy won't grow in the current plan right?
if the only solution is to collapse the banks, then collapse the banks. instead of just greece getting screwed, screw everyone.
if you owe the bank a million dollars, you're in trouble. if you the bank 340,213,734,739 €, then the bank is in trouble.
why not answer the questions i posed towards you before asking more questions?
Troll strategy. Alternative (get it?). He uses seemingly innocent questions to suck people into discussion then uses avoidance, obfuscation and misdirection to try and advance his position. When he gets called out - like I did to him in the Uber thread - he runs like Patrik Schumuncher, popping up in another thread with the same line of bullshit. If you call him out again he acts all butthurt (thanks, Donna!) and blames your intolerance of differing viewpoints.
Whether he's a paid political troll or just gets his jollies off of this is irrelevant. He's still a troll.
Alternative, as in alternative nickname for a forum regular?
What are you talking about, Miles?
@Orhan, Listen to the Varoufakis-Stiglitz discussion. The bankers are only looking at the contractual - accountant tick box requirements for repayment. Yanis / Stiglitz speaking macro economic principles towards reconstruction not just repayment.
Visual aids for the Greek Debt Crisis, which should really be called the Euro Debt Crisis.
Again, if you're so opposed to EU-imposed austerity, why don't you support Greece adopting the drachma and writing off its debt a la Argentina?
TED, watching Varoufakis and listening what the newly elected Greeks were saying and ideas they were generating over the few months, all I can say now is Eurozone is not interested in ideas and or comprehensive humane plans, sensible economic plans etc... It is really fascistic. Like Merkel said, "you are gonna get on this horse or the horse is dead."
Thanks for the video, I watched it and again saw how EU is a powerhouse for few and not at all the progressive economic structure it has misidentified itself. Disliking Greeks for talking about macro economics..!!??
It is a shame an idea person like Yanis Varoufakis did not survive the so called liberal principles. But I am not surprised, it is across the board. We have same thing here, in the places affecting our lives.
The Guardian view on the Greek deal: it solves nothing and holds many dangers Editorial
More visual aid - why the deal had to be done.
RUSSIA REFUSED TO PROVIDE AID AFTER GREECE SOLICITED IT
It's a house of cards.
.
some of you may like this book, only a few pages in, quotable stuff, related, and oddly enough it was in the Philosophy section with a simple cover format hadn't seen in years? "Crisis is a means of governing." (p.14)
feel like i just checked out the anarchist cookbook or something, ha...or wait I watch that crazy conservative Beck, he said order it, learn about evil....
I'll stick with Philosophy.
so I finished the book and not starting an insurrection...
It's meant for France but could easily apply to the USA nearly 95%, my favorite quote, and to leave you confused, why I like Donald Trump running for president....
"An assembly is not a place for decisions but for talk, for free speech exercised without a goal." (p.122)
the stupid questions to Trump by that Fox lady and his amazingly refreshing response shows how stupid the political apparatus is in the country....the embarrassed nod by Rand Paul admitting Donald has paid for his campaign further indicates the embarassment every bull shit public servant should feel for only running for election and never actually running anything.
it's all one big joke - media and politics.
I'll stick with Philosophy.
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