So, a good friend of mine went in for a job interview at a mid-size arch firm in Manhattan yesterday. She spent three years working in Petey's office, but when the interviewer looked at her resume, he discounted the three years as not being real office experience.
After having graduated from Yale six years ago, she now assumes that she can only really say that she has three years experience. Has anyone else had similar experiences having worked for Petey? Is working at his office really the kiss of death when interviewing elsewhere. From having heard her experience, I would advise anyone to stay away from there.
That's crazy! Especially since some corporate architecture firms like the one it sounds like your friend was considering provide their employees with scarcely more "real office experience"... someone who was pigeonholed to specialize in curtain walls or renderings for 3 years as a cog in a corporate office would probably not have any broader of an experience than someone who worked for Eisenman. It sounds like they have a particular partisan bias that is getting in the way of their ability to objectively evaluate your friend as a job candidate, perhaps similar to the rumors I have heard about Libeskind's office turning down former SOM applicants and vice versa. I wouldn't assume it to be a universal rule.
Especially since Eisenman has recently been selling out and designing football stadiums ...
This is the flip side of the ever popular "Oh, my God, I simply must get [insert favorite starchitect firm name here] on my resume' and I'll be set for life!"
Quality of experience is in the eye of the resume' reader. Some may be impressed, others won't. The friend can still claim six years' office experience, but, clearly, it's up to potential employers to evaluate the worth of that experience for their needs.
You can build models at Gensler for 10 years, for Christ's sake! What a company is looking for is one thing, to insult someone's professional efforts, blatantly, is just ridiculous.
Clearly, either your friend is leaving out some crucial details or the person that interviewed her is a complete moron. Either way, it seems like there are big pieces to the story missing.
My bet, they were looking for a way to justify offering her 50% less! I suppose that if someone is willing to fall for that, then they deserve it (although I would guess that if she were working there, or rather I'd hope, that she'd be smart enough to tell that person where to go)
[in all honesty, this post smells more than a little....]
Anyway, in case this is real, she should also know where she is interviewing. Eisenmann (yet not the trendiest starchitect anymore) is a brand, as Yale is. So she has two powerful, world-wide recognized brands "Yale+Eisenmann" that is quite different that having "North Dakota State College+John Average Associates" in her resume. That will definitely open her many doors. Maybe in Peoria, IL interviewing for a architectural assistant job they will be scared, and they will prefer local people that will not run away at first opportunity (and probably they are right).
I have two starchitects in my resume and that has definitely gave me some edge at some point, yet I honestly don't count on it anymore. "citizen", I don't think any of my previous jobmates thought that a "starchitect" would set you for life, but definitely it will not hurt.
i believe it. architecture is rife with factions, and so many architects will use any excuse they can get to put down another. i went to an 'arty' school, and have had several experiences where interviewers had an ax to grind about that--'i applied there, but they didn't want me' or 'what are you doing here--i thought you guys were too damned good for this place'. also, corporate firms love to look down on boutique firm experience, and 'design' firms sometimes think you must be a loser if you worked at bbg for 5 years...why is anyone surprised by this??
...not to mention the 'computational design' people, who seem to think you're a lost cause if you ever worked on something with a window or a door in it...
the only reason anyone would try to discredit 3 years worth of your experience is to pay you less than what you're worth, regardless of where you come from.
It happens! I had a starchitect on my CV and had a job interview in London with a small office that was considered as an up-and-coming young practice. On the day, the partner who called me in had to be unexpectedly be out of the office, and so another partner interviewed me instead. The whole interview consisted of him simply going through my work and making comments like, "this is disgusting, it's so soulless."
Quite frankly, it was unprofessional and a waste of both my time and his. I have no problem with an architect disliking the work of another, but please do me the courtesy of judging me by the quality of the work that I have carried out, rather than make a snap judgement of who you think I am based on the office I was previously working for.
it's also happened to me (and it's not exclusive to starchitects). they can't recognize certain skills that are potentially valuable to the firm - they only see "I don't like that office's design, therefore this person does everything the wrong way." plus - if you're sitting there in an interview badmouthing my previous firm and belittling my experience - how the hell do you think that makes me feel? it's really unprofessional and a warning that this person is probably a bully.
and I see no difference between this and people belittling someone based on the school they went to.
Due to an over supply of workers your individual value has plummeted to the point where some jerks feel they can insult you because there are 50 other resumes in the pile.
yeah.. I have also had an interview at a huge firm in london that was a total waste of time for both of us.. in the big firms, the person inteviewing does not necessarily review the cvs/resume but rather the HR people (who don't have opinions on other firms' work or schools) chose who to interview. Then the interviewer (who is generally too busy to be interested in anything else) skims over your cv and flips through your portfolio and decides without really talking to you at all. A huge waste of tiem for everyone involved and even if I did get an offer after an experience like that I wouldn't take it. There are a lot of people who do though and thats why they get away with it. Just brush it off and find somewhere where you click.
having peter eisenman in your resume is a very good thing if you are the type.
ie; OMA experience is almost token job-in now. people who don't even know rem in person are getting all kinds of jobs. there is even nickname for them "OMA chicks" meaning young chicken..
well known starship offices get the most talented and driven students in their offices, often for free or minimum wage. because usually that is all they can pay, supporting their practice from student interns, academic resources of large salaries and speaking fees etc... they produce large project pitches to dictatorial countries, competition entries, books and other publicity material, conferences, presentations etc... all these stuff has to be prepared by staff. in exchange, you get keys to a lot of places and recommendations to faculty positions, corporate offices, gallery shows and other vertically challenged jobs and visibility ops.
oma internships do seem to pop up a lot more lately. it is still pretty cool in my book.
not defending their practices which i know almost nothing about, but many starchitects do good things too. it isn't all dictators. in fact its almost never dictators. sometimes its a maggie's house. but that doesn't fit the narrative so fuck it eh? ;-)
The advantage of OMA is that many many previous interns or workers there have set very successful offices. If you have OMA experience and you want to work for one of those offices, having this OMA experience would help you a lot to set the foot on the door. Anyway this a very particular case, as I doubt whether there are any other offices out there that have produced so many successful disciples.
I also think that, at least in the very early stages of your career, it is not strange at all to swap from starchitect to starchitect of completely different languages. You may work today for Zaha Hadid or Eisenmann and tomorrow for John Pawson or Steven Holl... that may happen... somehow when you are in the low rank of the office, you gotta work long hours and under stress conditions, so that's pretty common to every starchitect despite his or her language... so any other starchitect will appreciate your "qualities".
With a few years of starchitect experience, I think best career moves are:
1. Set your own office.
2. Move to "corporate" design office (SOM style). They will appreciate your "edge" design background and capability to work long hours, used to work in international environment, etc. Probably you will get better working conditions, less hours and more salary (in normal economic circumstances, obviously).
3. Move to small/medium "trendy" offices that will appreciate that particular starchitect experience.
Interviewing or working at the average medium local practice is probably where your experience, skills and contacts will be less useful.
Jul 7, 11 9:58 am ·
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Peter Eisenman on your resume?
So, a good friend of mine went in for a job interview at a mid-size arch firm in Manhattan yesterday. She spent three years working in Petey's office, but when the interviewer looked at her resume, he discounted the three years as not being real office experience.
After having graduated from Yale six years ago, she now assumes that she can only really say that she has three years experience. Has anyone else had similar experiences having worked for Petey? Is working at his office really the kiss of death when interviewing elsewhere. From having heard her experience, I would advise anyone to stay away from there.
So ... isn't Eisenman one of those guys who uses "unpaid interns" ?
That's crazy! Especially since some corporate architecture firms like the one it sounds like your friend was considering provide their employees with scarcely more "real office experience"... someone who was pigeonholed to specialize in curtain walls or renderings for 3 years as a cog in a corporate office would probably not have any broader of an experience than someone who worked for Eisenman. It sounds like they have a particular partisan bias that is getting in the way of their ability to objectively evaluate your friend as a job candidate, perhaps similar to the rumors I have heard about Libeskind's office turning down former SOM applicants and vice versa. I wouldn't assume it to be a universal rule.
Especially since Eisenman has recently been selling out and designing football stadiums ...
(sorry for the double post ... I just saw that you can now edit comments.)
This is the flip side of the ever popular "Oh, my God, I simply must get [insert favorite starchitect firm name here] on my resume' and I'll be set for life!"
Quality of experience is in the eye of the resume' reader. Some may be impressed, others won't. The friend can still claim six years' office experience, but, clearly, it's up to potential employers to evaluate the worth of that experience for their needs.
You can build models at Gensler for 10 years, for Christ's sake! What a company is looking for is one thing, to insult someone's professional efforts, blatantly, is just ridiculous.
Clearly, either your friend is leaving out some crucial details or the person that interviewed her is a complete moron. Either way, it seems like there are big pieces to the story missing.
My bet, they were looking for a way to justify offering her 50% less! I suppose that if someone is willing to fall for that, then they deserve it (although I would guess that if she were working there, or rather I'd hope, that she'd be smart enough to tell that person where to go)
[in all honesty, this post smells more than a little....]
hah, that's funny what kind of loser thinks working for pete doesn't count? unless the friend was a model builder the whole time....
I think this post is fake/trolling.
Anyway, in case this is real, she should also know where she is interviewing. Eisenmann (yet not the trendiest starchitect anymore) is a brand, as Yale is. So she has two powerful, world-wide recognized brands "Yale+Eisenmann" that is quite different that having "North Dakota State College+John Average Associates" in her resume. That will definitely open her many doors. Maybe in Peoria, IL interviewing for a architectural assistant job they will be scared, and they will prefer local people that will not run away at first opportunity (and probably they are right).
I have two starchitects in my resume and that has definitely gave me some edge at some point, yet I honestly don't count on it anymore. "citizen", I don't think any of my previous jobmates thought that a "starchitect" would set you for life, but definitely it will not hurt.
This thread stinks of someone with an ax to grind.
"but when the interviewer looked at her resume"
The interviewer didn't do this prior to the interview? In this economy? I call bs on this post as well.
i believe it. architecture is rife with factions, and so many architects will use any excuse they can get to put down another. i went to an 'arty' school, and have had several experiences where interviewers had an ax to grind about that--'i applied there, but they didn't want me' or 'what are you doing here--i thought you guys were too damned good for this place'. also, corporate firms love to look down on boutique firm experience, and 'design' firms sometimes think you must be a loser if you worked at bbg for 5 years...why is anyone surprised by this??
...not to mention the 'computational design' people, who seem to think you're a lost cause if you ever worked on something with a window or a door in it...
the only reason anyone would try to discredit 3 years worth of your experience is to pay you less than what you're worth, regardless of where you come from.
if the "friend" exists" they should have stuck up for themselves
it wouldn't surprise me if this happens, but i wouldn't want to work at an office if they had that attitude.
It happens! I had a starchitect on my CV and had a job interview in London with a small office that was considered as an up-and-coming young practice. On the day, the partner who called me in had to be unexpectedly be out of the office, and so another partner interviewed me instead. The whole interview consisted of him simply going through my work and making comments like, "this is disgusting, it's so soulless."
Quite frankly, it was unprofessional and a waste of both my time and his. I have no problem with an architect disliking the work of another, but please do me the courtesy of judging me by the quality of the work that I have carried out, rather than make a snap judgement of who you think I am based on the office I was previously working for.
it's also happened to me (and it's not exclusive to starchitects). they can't recognize certain skills that are potentially valuable to the firm - they only see "I don't like that office's design, therefore this person does everything the wrong way." plus - if you're sitting there in an interview badmouthing my previous firm and belittling my experience - how the hell do you think that makes me feel? it's really unprofessional and a warning that this person is probably a bully.
and I see no difference between this and people belittling someone based on the school they went to.
Due to an over supply of workers your individual value has plummeted to the point where some jerks feel they can insult you because there are 50 other resumes in the pile.
Or maybe it has to due with Mr. Eisenmann admitting he would not live in a house designed by that hack Peter Eisenmann: http://www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/2011/04/25/AFsuG7EF_story.html
yeah.. I have also had an interview at a huge firm in london that was a total waste of time for both of us.. in the big firms, the person inteviewing does not necessarily review the cvs/resume but rather the HR people (who don't have opinions on other firms' work or schools) chose who to interview. Then the interviewer (who is generally too busy to be interested in anything else) skims over your cv and flips through your portfolio and decides without really talking to you at all. A huge waste of tiem for everyone involved and even if I did get an offer after an experience like that I wouldn't take it. There are a lot of people who do though and thats why they get away with it. Just brush it off and find somewhere where you click.
having peter eisenman in your resume is a very good thing if you are the type.
ie; OMA experience is almost token job-in now. people who don't even know rem in person are getting all kinds of jobs. there is even nickname for them "OMA chicks" meaning young chicken..
well known starship offices get the most talented and driven students in their offices, often for free or minimum wage. because usually that is all they can pay, supporting their practice from student interns, academic resources of large salaries and speaking fees etc... they produce large project pitches to dictatorial countries, competition entries, books and other publicity material, conferences, presentations etc... all these stuff has to be prepared by staff. in exchange, you get keys to a lot of places and recommendations to faculty positions, corporate offices, gallery shows and other vertically challenged jobs and visibility ops.
oma internships do seem to pop up a lot more lately. it is still pretty cool in my book.
not defending their practices which i know almost nothing about, but many starchitects do good things too. it isn't all dictators. in fact its almost never dictators. sometimes its a maggie's house. but that doesn't fit the narrative so fuck it eh? ;-)
Channeling my inner New Yorker.
My two cents...
The advantage of OMA is that many many previous interns or workers there have set very successful offices. If you have OMA experience and you want to work for one of those offices, having this OMA experience would help you a lot to set the foot on the door. Anyway this a very particular case, as I doubt whether there are any other offices out there that have produced so many successful disciples.
I also think that, at least in the very early stages of your career, it is not strange at all to swap from starchitect to starchitect of completely different languages. You may work today for Zaha Hadid or Eisenmann and tomorrow for John Pawson or Steven Holl... that may happen... somehow when you are in the low rank of the office, you gotta work long hours and under stress conditions, so that's pretty common to every starchitect despite his or her language... so any other starchitect will appreciate your "qualities".
With a few years of starchitect experience, I think best career moves are:
1. Set your own office.
2. Move to "corporate" design office (SOM style). They will appreciate your "edge" design background and capability to work long hours, used to work in international environment, etc. Probably you will get better working conditions, less hours and more salary (in normal economic circumstances, obviously).
3. Move to small/medium "trendy" offices that will appreciate that particular starchitect experience.
Interviewing or working at the average medium local practice is probably where your experience, skills and contacts will be less useful.
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