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Is there any future in Architecture???

May 2 '12 70 Last Comment
archigeniss
May 2, 12 10:23 am

I recently finish a B.S. on Architecture and my graduation is on May, 2012. I have been accepted on BAC for a Master on Architecture I will start it next fall. I have been looking, hunting and searching for a job in an architectural firm for over a year. I have multiple webpage where I look for job every day, I received job alerts every day and I go to different architectural firm webpage and whenever they post jobs that I am qualified for I apply, but they never get back to me. Now, my question is: is there any future in Architecture??? I am asking this, because when I finally find a job post it requires 5 to 10 years of experience. I can see any future in this career if there is not chance to inexperience talent when we do not have the opportunity to get experience.

I currently working on a engineering company creating BIM 3D models. The job is not bad at all, but at the end, will this job experience creating BIM 3D models payoff to get a job or an internship within an architectural firm? I love architecture since I remember, but if I will not have a chance to became license architect, is it worth to owe 100k on students loans and spend all the time that study architecture requires? Right now I am very  disappointed I will definitively finish my M.arch, but we recently graduated architecture students really need the opportunity within the field and not just for us for the career itself. 

A career that does not get fresh air with new talents, new ideas and new points of view, will have any future? Most of my classmates are looking for job and just the 5% have a job in architectural firm, 10% got a NOT pay internship. I CANNOT afford to work for free paying gas, rent , food while I am working for free and all Spence that will result from a M.arch.

However, Architecture is the most beautiful career I have ever seem and I DO NOT regret  all the time I have spent on it and the time I will spend on it. I will finish my M.Arch no matter what. Even when I will be the last man stand in a death end regarding getting experience. At the end all I am wonder: Is there any future in Architecture???            

       

 

Rusty!
May 2, 12 11:12 am

If you take a more philosophical approach to the matter, architecture is doing just fine, it's just that there is an overabundance of people who want to be architects. Schools are pumping out grads at an alarming rate. If your class was 5% size of what it is, then everyone would have gotten a job!

It's hard to predict future employment needs of this silly world. Your best bet is to try to diversify your skills as much as you can early in your career, and specialize as much as you can as you go along.

What I mean to say is, make sure you have someone proofread your cover letters when you are applying for a job. Tiny weeny things like that matter.

stone
May 2, 12 11:47 am

As Rusty points out, the employment problem in Architecture is rooted in the problems of the broader economy and the relative relationship between supply and demand for services.

To help you put this into perspective, you might want to review this report published earlier this year by the Georgetown Center on Education and the Workforce: http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/Unemployment.Final.update1.pdf

Recent graduates in Architecture are not the only folks who are suffering in this economy, by any means.

In the end, I am a firm believer that if you work in a field that you love and rigorously apply your knowledge and talents, ultlmately you will find success.

archigeniss
May 2, 12 1:24 pm

Rusty Shackleford- so you mean that if my class size was 1 student (5%) out of 20 student, "then everyone would have gotten a job!" I meant, then one would have gotten a job??? I am really surprised that you said that schools are pumping out grads at an alarming rate, when the rate of architecture grads are one of the lowest!!

I am really on agreement in regards the specialization and that is what I am doing going to grad school to get a master, and learning as much skills as I see on job post. For example: Proficient on AutoCad, Revit Architecture/MEP, 3Ds Max Design, Google sketchup, Autodesk Showcase, Photoshop, MS Microsoft and some other Skills that are been required now day.

On regard Proofread, I totally agreed with you, but I will blame on Spell check sometimes it makes it worst!!! I appreciate your time to bring you point on the table it is a contribution to my concern!!!!

Thanks,  

archigeniss
May 2, 12 1:30 pm

Stone- It is true the problem goes for every career.

I like how you bring proof of that it makes it makes this forum more interesting, and I definitively will review it!

I am 101% in agreement with you! and I quote you: "I am a firm believer that if you work in a field that you love and rigorously apply your knowledge and talents, ultlmately you will find success". In the end just who loves this career succeed!!! and I do LOVE this career!!! thanks to bring you point to my concern!!!

Thanks, 

Rusty!
May 2, 12 2:00 pm

aalgenis,

with all due respect, how can you love this career if you never worked in it? Academic and professional halls are very much unlike each other.

archigeniss
May 2, 12 2:41 pm

Rusty- You have a great talent to surprise me on every comment!!! How can I love this career if you never worked in it? I will start by saying that this is the reason why I create this forum I have NOT real experience! I will respond this on two parts,

Academic- I had the bless of study on a school of Arch where the main goal of the arch faculty was to make the design studio one that pretty much simulate a real design firm. I had to go experiment every process from the client(Professor) that ask you for a design. Second the design development: Site and weather Analysis, Conceptual design, code compliant,  Design process, Presentation with death lines and harder than all that JURY. The JURY process is more difficult than sell a design to a client, because when you sell you design to a client you can guide then to your comfort zone. Professor cannot be fool the Know more than the student and the can see a design error at 30ft from the presentation.

Professional- do you need to have experience to love the career you chose? isn't that contradictory? If everybody that choose a career have to experience it first to love it then that person does not love that career!!! In my very personal opinion when you choose a career and you love it you have to accept it with ups and downs.

 

At the end, I know I love this career, because I love the design process, I do not care if I have to sleep just 30mins every day for 3 wks to finish a project, I love when I have to present in front of the Arch "Gurus" and defend my project with all the knowledge I had acquired during the design parts!!! Finally, I love it, because when everything finish they said "nice job" and you look at your final product and you feel so proud of what you accomplished from something idealized to make feel it so real or possible.

 

I may have more Proofread error, because my mind blow out with so many emotion that could not just write here!!!...LOL

Gregory WhartonGregory Wharton
May 2, 12 2:43 pm

Not too long ago, I was re-reading Robert Rodriguez' book, "Rebel Without a Crew," a collection of his journal entries from the period (1991-1993) when he was making his breakthrough independent action film, "El Mariachi," which catapulted him to success in Hollywood. Those who are old enough (cough) to remember those years will recall that recession being pretty bad too, though nothing like the current one. And here was this 23-year-old guy who went from a C student at UTA film school to big shot Hollywood player in essentially one step at a time when nobody was hiring and no deals were being done. It's an interesting story, and there's a lot of lessons architects should presently be taking from what he did.

Most important for us, Rodriguez worked self-sufficiently, leveraging his creativity and effort by directly making something he was passionate about without being dependent on anyone else to get it done. He threw out all the conventional wisdom about how movies should be made because doing it that way was impossible for him. He didn't have the money, resources, time, or connections. So instead, all by himself (enlisting only the help of some friends to serve as actors), improvising at every step, he made this amazing movie about a mariachi musician who winds up in the middle of a gang war due to mistaken identity.

And he did it for $7,000. Really. If you haven't seen it, you should. It looks like he spent orders of magnitude more money than that to make it. If he'd tried to do that movie the conventional way, he would have.

So, the takeaway from this is: don't depend on somebody to give you a job. Make your own.

Sure, you need to gain experience. The best way to do that is to go out and do that thing, not go to school or try to get someone to hire you. Rodriguez wanted to learn how to make a great feature film, so he planned to make three cheapo, Spanish-language, direct-to-video features completely on his own to experiment, make mistakes, learn, and gain important experience. El Mariachi was the first of those, and forced him to learn so much and exercise his creativity so hard and was so well received that he never made the other two (though he did eventually sequelize it in Desperado, which is also good and shot in much the same way but with a bigger budget).

Can you be a Rebel Without a Firm? It's much easier than you think.

archigeniss
May 2, 12 2:56 pm

MR. Gregory- Your comment its amazing I enjoyed it a lot and yes I been thinking on do my own thing. I do not want to follow dogmas, isn't that the main purpose of Arch to put your imagination on a a real plane?? I really want to learn the business, but I will not seat down and wait!!!

 

thanks, 

dia
May 2, 12 8:11 pm

Thanks Gregory,

As I mentioned on another thread, if architects were as creative as they believe they are, why are they so traditional when it comes to the way they do business? Need to read that book...

usk2
May 2, 12 8:30 pm

Worldwide architects crossed incredibly difficult times in the past few years. Especially those leading design studios. Compared to them, you ve had nothing to lose, so far! You can appreciate that will start from zero, not from minus!

About loving architecture, that is the only "force" that keep you alive as architect across hard times. Only time will highlight this love and that is your secret motivation.

Today and future Architecture need NEW architects because it went on the wrong track past millenium (my opinion). Within cities (as they are created today), points of interest are so far apart from each other than transportation is no longer gain of technique, but a big consumer of resources (first of all: TIME). Polyfunctional is sustainable in architecture of third millenium. To satisfy multiple daily needs within same building, means to save resources. But Polyfunctional can diluate buildings personality!  And that is one problem that need a solution.

You can start your own research, you can specialize on a particular sector in architecture, or on particular design stages (that is the future - my opinion) and act as independent. Do not choose what is required now on the market, but what skills you ve had shown to yourself so far (that is the easy way to satisfaction)

Take a look at what means Void Composition & Definition in order to generate Building Geometry & Perception at: 

http://www.oneata.eu/renderings/musician-house/2/7/

and maybe you ll see the future more optimistically!!!

shuellmi
May 2, 12 10:28 pm

looks like things are supposed to pick up sometime in the next 5 years....

http://www.usatodayeducate.com/staging/index.php/ccp/architecture-still-a-relevant-career-path

design
May 2, 12 10:37 pm

There is no future in anything.
only everything will lead the way to nothing.

Quentin
May 3, 12 8:32 am

Graduated with a BS in 09, not one offer. FML.

t a m m u z
May 3, 12 8:57 am

i don't know if this is endemic, but it seems -maybe stretching way before the present time- Architecture has suffered from an uneasy relationship with its present. architects are always talking -in one way or the other- about how great and respectable the past of the profession was and architects are always talking about how the profession will evolve and the role of the architect is changing. somehow, there is a dichotomy between this sense of nostalgia and this other sense of fatalism (and if not fatalism, then definitely necessity- the necessity  of changing)...its a rather sickly dichotomy that not only expresses the impotence of the present but actually reifies and reinforces this impotence by rendering the present into a wasteland between those two fictions.

t a m m u z
May 3, 12 9:22 am

so the question of concern is ...and given that we can substantiate the past with myths and histories and the future with the many utopias and dystopias that we can choose from.....does architecture have a present?

timothysadler®
May 3, 12 10:02 am

@GregoryWharton:  Great post.  I believe though that "Desperado" is the same story as "El Mariachi", not a sequel, just "Mariachi" done with the full Hollywood treatment.  I concur, anyone interested in bootstrapping any sort of creative venture would do well to read "Rebel Without A Crew". 

med.
May 3, 12 10:17 am

Quentin - I think you are a total exception.  I cannot even fathom why you haven't been hired since '09.  I know many people who have graduated since then who have recieved multpiple job offers.

I think I once reviewed your folio and it wasn't all that bad.  Personality maybe?  Professionalism or hgow you present yourself???  Totally mystified here.

I was laid off in early 2011 by a firm I'd been at since 08 abd was hired within one week at another place.

med.
May 3, 12 10:20 am

In 2008/2009 there were only one or two job postings a week on archinect and we were in a nasty recession.  Now there are like 10 new ones per day.  Just sayin....

Quentin
May 3, 12 10:59 am

med - no clue. I've sent resumes and/or applied to about 400 places/positions. I keep an excel chart that dates back to early 2009. I've had about 10 interviews. With only 2 or 3 only being arch firms. I did well in school, 3.6 gpa. Portfolio is good, not excellent but the best I can do. I've done a little contract work but nothing considerable. I've been working outside the field.

Had professors and architects review my portfolio they said good things. Been to a few AIA networking events. Asked everyone I know if they know any architects, no leads. Met plenty of architects who offer no real advice or jobs. Finally started looking for jobs outside of my local area, still slow. Also became a LEED GA. All in all it's pretty depressing. Seems like everyone can get a break but me. And I'm getting older and not racking up the experience that I should. Just a crappy situation all around.

Message me your email and I can show you my portfolio. My first portfolio I put on here in 2009 was pretty embarassing. haha

jla-x
May 3, 12 11:58 am

what city do you live in? are you applying everywhere? Certain areas are much much worse than others. 

med.
May 3, 12 1:25 pm

can someone please explain to me how you can message people???  It used to be as easy on clicking someones name and then messaging them.

Quentin
May 3, 12 1:26 pm

Live outside of DC. Applied for jobs in DC and VA. Ironically the DC area has the strongest economy in the nation, you think I would of landed something. Recently started looking in Atlanta.

Parad0xx86
May 3, 12 1:47 pm

Quentin, BS in Arch degree may have been a disadvantage since I saw a lot of  Barch requirement in job posts but I may be wrong.

Quentin
May 3, 12 2:08 pm

Yea I know that. Applied for one master's program and didn't get in :(

But I already had $67k student loan debt from undergrad (out-of-state), idk if it's wise to add another $30k+ to that for a Masters. But then again I can't seem to do anything with a BS. Losing all the way around.

gwharton
May 3, 12 2:35 pm

Quentin;

There's a fine line between finishing a positive long-term investment and the sunk-cost fallacy. It's up to you to figure out where that line is for you. However, the cheapest way to move from a BS to professional degree (and finish your architectural schooling) is to find a BArch program that will let you have credit for the BS and allow you to complete a BArch on ONE year. If you can find a program that will allow that, it will be a much better path than doing a professional MArch. There's no practical difference between those two degrees anyway, but a BS alone is not generally something that is considered a stand-alone qualification for architectural education or training. Architecture schools don't advertise that, but it's true.

Do the BArch thing at a state school, and it will not contribute a huge additional debt load to your outstanding student loans either.

harveyspecter
May 3, 12 3:30 pm

two small things you have to do to be assured of a decent career:

1. graduate from an ivy

2. win a major competition

bam!!

kidding.haha.

 

 

davidsova
May 3, 12 7:15 pm

If you need to make a living and support yourself, there is very little value in being an "Architect". Even in the best of times potential fees are minimal, risks, liabilities and expenses are significant. Almost any other vocation will provide you with a better return on your investment of time, money, sweat and tears. You wrote that you are working for an engineering firm right now. Stay with engineering, take advantage of that opportunity. Learn all you can about BIM and 3D software. Ever study Santiago Calatrava's work?

      

Xenakis
May 3, 12 8:29 pm

sublimespaces

I used to work at an office that was 60% Ivy - when the lay offs hit, most of them stayed - I have noticed that people from the big 8 schools along with the Cal Polys have no trouble.

RZTZ
May 3, 12 11:17 pm

As someone who reads the resumes that people send into my (small) firm, it's not just about quantity.

You need to look completely professional, almost like a brand. You have to stand out. People under-estimate this. 

RZTZ
May 3, 12 11:22 pm

but...as a career, architecture isn't the easiest path that's for sure. not the hardest either, but still not easy. 

If I was 18 again I'd probably major in computer science...can be boring I'm sure but you can see what you build immediately which appeals to me. Heck if you're 22, you could still learn programming and be pretty good by the time you're 24. Better career prospects. 

Best part about this job is telling people you're an architect, and the few moments of satisfaction: the day the project is completed, hearing complimentary words from clients, and winning projects. The day-to-day stuff is as boring as any other job.

backbay
May 3, 12 11:23 pm

slightly never-happeningable, but honestly can naab just make a program where you can make up the deficiencies that separate your BS or BA degree from a BArch?  they're goddamn college degrees for crying out loud.  

it seems pretty silly (being in Boston) that you can have a degree in architecture, work in it your whole life, but somehow not be qualified to take a test you actually know all the answers to,  but a grad with an "accredited" degree and 3 years of experience can.  seems like $$$ making to me.

my graduate school experience:

thesis prep i, thesis prep ii, pro practice ii(i in undergrad), 4 special topics (aka miscellaneous topics),  travel studio, thesis studio.  WOAH looks like i'm way more qualified to sit for the ARE now!

architecture should only be available as graduate degree to civil engineering.  understand the science, then understand the art.  it filters out those with passion, and you fix the low wage crap by having qualified graduates that actually know how things stand up.  THAT would make the architect greater than the engineer, and restore prestige to the profession.

then again, thats just an opinion of someone with no experience.

/rant

Kevin WermeKevin Werme
May 3, 12 11:48 pm

This has been a topic receiving lots of comments and feedback, so I haven't read through them all and don't know if I'm repeating anything, but  here's my 2 cents...

I find myself in a similar situation as aalgeniss; I've recently graduated with a BFA in Architecture (May 2011), have had trouble finding an internship, and have no experience in a professional setting. I've applied to many jobs in towns and cities around my region, but so far have had no luck. Like aalgeniss, I've found most are looking for interns and entry level positions from people with 3+ years experience. While in school I worked on a dairy farm to support myself. I'm now taking time off from school and have two jobs non-design related: bartending 4 nights/week and working for a tenting company putting up events like weddings and such. I'm still waiting for my break, and believe me it has been frustrating, but in the mean time I've been taking an approach much similar to what Greg mentioned: creating my own work. Working as a bartender, I've met many people and made many connections. Through the people I meet I've been able to pick up some freelance work. Everything from doing hybrid drawings for an addition, to now designing a pergola/awning system for the restaurant I bartend at. In addition, many of these people know designers and have been able to refer me to firms around the area. Although nothing has come through yet, I can feel I'm getting closer to landing a job!

As for the future of architecture? believe me, there's a bright future. With the drastic increase in global population along with ever rising poverty rates, the demand for quality affordable and sustainable residential housing is the issue at the forefront. Architects need to escape from the choke hold of the elitist persona, where there is this notion that our services are solely reserved for the rich. By focusing on the housing crisis, we would be able to create enough jobs for all the unemployed architects of the world. Doing many designs for low-income families and individuals can bring just as much revenue as doing a few for the rich. I personally believe there is a future in well designed, prefabricated, modular homes that are able to be both modern and affordable. I haven't quite worked out the details on how to achieve this yet, but firms like New Avenue Homes in Cali. are well on there way.

If architecture is something your passionate about, stay at it. You'll land something eventually!

harveyspecter
May 4, 12 12:47 am

@zenakis

just for the thread's info, the big 8 schools would be.....

GSD, GSapp, MIT, Princeton, UCLA, UCB,Cooper U, SciArc... ??

archigeniss
May 4, 12 12:57 am

Kevin - This is a great point!!! Architects think they are gods (I'm just repeating something that Ive been hearing for a while) and that is their major problem. I do not see civil engineers or construction manager students complaining instead most of them have great jobs and OPORTUNITIES right after or while in school, because engineers approach all levels of people. Architecture is changing due to the demand for more accessibility to their product. I honestly DO NOT WANT TO BE RICH doing architecture I just want to access with my designs and imagination as many people as I can!!! I opt for QUANTITY + QUALITY which in my point of view has nothing wrong I like the way Louis Kahn guided his career he expend so much money on his projects that most of the time they did not left him money. Architecture has a bright future if it sticks to sustainability even when with it are surging new legal problems. I want to be part of a new generation of architects that as a whole made a brand that will be studied in a lecture room of history of architecture school by new generations where the topic is how we express with arch our society, politics, way of think and our theory of arch. I know I will find my way, because someday an architect will give me an interview in where he will see over my resume which it's just a marketing plan that just tells the true when the skills have been tested, that I have more passion, talent and desired to make this career a better one. I know it sounds like too much fantasy, but hey! This is what we offer fantasies made real!!!!! When I first created this forum I was afraid of get bad comments or just people ignoring it, but I left it. Every comment is encouraging or use real stories that make me feel this forum has benefits not just for me!!! Definable, architecture has a bright future. We just need more "old dogs" with "some "Puppies" like me get together to share new and old techniques, points of view, way to run this career and the most important to share our desire of make this beautiful career one that new generation dream of!!!!!!!

Gotan
May 4, 12 8:19 am

A few things:

I am having a thriving career in Asia since 6 years.

Making good money, designing projects I never would have dared to dream of when I was at school, traveling.

My firm and many others firms around in Asia  are actually looking for talented staff.

Problem is as someone pointed out:

1. yes there might be too many architects pumped out of school. It may be long on studies, but judging on CV and portfolio I receive... there is a lot of deadwood in the profession. The talented and brightest are actually few....and this regardless of age, experience or generation. I remember during my final thesis, some projects were quite bad; and nobody failed! Schools should actually discourage much more the not so talented architects. Survival of the fittest, like any demanding field of studies.

2.We do so much for free, as soon as there is  a competition....we all scamble and work the late nights...for free! This is actually unbelievable. A doctor, lawyer, engineer...would never do so much work without a proper commission.

3. If you are young, or can afford the exile and in need of building up a career/portfolio; I would use that chance to go abroad where it is actually building. So you spend these valuables years working on real projects instead of grumbling how bad architecture field is.

4. Be at the forefront, a lot of countries like Singapore; or governmental jobs in Canada and the US starts to require projects to be delivered in BIM, REVIT. Learn this.

5.Learn Ecotect, get LEED certified, be where architecture will be in 5 years.

6. if you want to be a designer, get into 3d modeling and learn how to deliver a graphically compelling project. In the end, this is how we communicate...through graphics and diagrams. Old architects don't get it still. You can make your marks like this.

7. Work for healthcare firms. With an aging population, there will be more demands for hospital, geriatric center, nursing homes, etc..

8. Go travel, read books, know your architecture culture.

 

med.
May 4, 12 10:10 am

Zenakis - that is the biggest bunch of bullshit I have ever heard in my entiire life.

med.
May 4, 12 10:22 am

I've worked at quite a few firms - some very reputable including the one I am working at now and nothing of that sort is even remotely true.

At the firm I am at now, we are about 300 in the office (all architects, planners, interiors, landscape, etc), there are people from every program.  There are quite a few senior designers from ivys, but most are from schools like Maryland, Catholic U, VT, Florida, Kentucky, Cincinnati, even less-known schools like Morgan State.  Just - saying.

I also worked at a firm that had a number of younger people from GSD, Penn, and RISD, when layoffs happened none of them were spared because of their education background.   At SOM it was the same -  and I have to still say a majority of the people including people who were FAIA were from schools like IIT, U of Illinois, Penn State, Syracuse, and many many from Kansas.   Also if you see that a firm prefers to hire people from ivys (or big 8 or whatever the fuck you call them since that's important to you) you don't wan tto work at that firm to begin with.

Ben.Silverman
May 4, 12 1:45 pm

I would say you should consider that working for an Architect as an Architect is not the only way to practice design and/or be a part of the building construction industry. 

When I graduated with a B.A. of Architecture, having already worked a couple of summer internships for Architects, I interviewed for consultant positions in order to diversify my skills and learn about the other aspects of building design and construction. I landed a job with a Facade Consultant and haven't looked back since. While the position was much more technical than my fellow grads who went on to work for Architects, I was still practicing design, but at a very detailed level (literally the nuts and bolts). I spent my time designing facade details that had to obey the constraints of materials, manufacturing, weatherproofing, and ultimately the Architect's aesthetic. It was quite a challenging and fulfilling design task. 

So while I will almost definitely not be getting licensed as an Architect, as a Facade Consultant I felt I was fulfilling my dreams of being a designer/builder as an integral part of the design and construction process and most importantly I was uniquely challenged on a weekly basis. I think a profession for a consultant or engineer is a fantastic way to practice design and be a builder. I've also noticed a lot of these firms are starting to wise up to the value of a well-rounded design minded person, rather than a stick to the books engineer.

My suggestion is that while at school, in addition to practicing your design chops in studio courses, it is very important that you take some technical courses to develop skills. Knowledge will come later on when working a job, but technical skills such as software, computer science and engineering analysis take time and practice and I think school is the best place to get that. In addition, the technical skills are much easier to transfer over to another career if, due to internal or external conditions, you decide to make that change.

 

johnnyboy
May 10, 12 12:15 am

I've been skimming through the comments and nobody appears to have mentioned the most obvious issue regarding Aalgeniss's original post. The post is riddled with grammar errors. I review hundreds of resumes and portfolios a year and act as the hiring lead for my office for most positions. Even if a person had an amazing portfolio and a great looking resume, basic grammar errors in a cover letter is an immediate 'no'. If a person can't properly communicate with a person in the position to make hiring decisions, how can that person be trusted to communicate with vendors, consultants or clients? In this still struggling economy, you have to have everything spot on or else you have already put yourself at a disadvantage before you've even begun. I could go on for hours about mistakes I see in applications, but let's just start with getting the basics correct.

t a m m u z
May 10, 12 2:13 am

perhaps then, johnnyboy, that is something that is possibly odder about you than it is about aalgeniss. firstly, a person writing on archinect really need not excercise the same caution as s/he would in drafting up a résumé (and by the way, it is a résumé and not a resume - if you were to take on such a pedantic tone as you have). secondly, architectural endeavours are hardly spelling-bees and, therefore, you are focusing on the most trivial aspect in assessing a person's job-related prowress. this would make you both silly and anal, an unhealthy combination.   thirdly, this absolutist inhuman perfectionism that elevates obsessive compulsive ticks above common sense (i.e. evaluating the the whole scope of material being submitted and taking into mind - but not exlusively prioritizing-  lexical distortions) is not a balm for the "struggling economy" but is an pathological and quite inhumane symptom.

archigeniss
May 10, 12 3:53 am

It is very clear this is not my best letter that I have created, but I think is very unfortunate that creativity and imagination, which are the best words to describe an architect or designer, are measured with the rule of grammar. I really appreciate Johnny Boy's advise regarding my "reddler", but I can add that I created this post without proofread it. On the other hand, today one of my co-worker is on charged of everything regarding grammar on the company. She has over 30 to 40 years of experience on how to send the right message using the right words and without grammatical errors. She told me today that even with all her experience she has made mistakes that wake her up in the middle of the night. In abstract, all I am trying to say with all this is, that if she has made with all her experience and still getting pay for her job it means to me that her talent still brighting out even with those little mistakes. In my personal opinion, I should be more careful next time when I send anything on writing, because someone like YOU will under estimate my IMAGINATION AND TALENT due to my grammatical errors. I want to became Architect for many reasons and one of those many reasons is to teach to my internships workers(if this is a way to say this) that architects are Not "Gods" in fact we are humans with a very special talent. If we keep inheriting to others this Perfect résumé hiring process we will leave under the shadows talent that may never rise up. Finally, if the grammar traciend the beuaty of talented and enthusiastic applicant mind then architectural studies will became an useless major (an you will be supporting the garbage that was published couple of weeks ago where Architecture major was ranked number 5th in "The 13 Most Useless Majors") -Tammuz: I think you should save some fraction (if is not most of it) of your post it has a great meaning and it will very unfortunate if it get lost. You could post it in your office so others could read it and get inspired... I am just suggesting! " This absolutist inhuman perfectionism that elevates obsessive compulsive ticks above common sense (i.e. evaluating the the whole scope of material being submitted and taking into mind - but not exlusively prioritizing-  lexical distortions) is not a balm for the "struggling economy" but is an pathological and quite inhumane symptom".

Parad0xx86
May 10, 12 5:17 am

The irony is, in another (old) thread an employer who started the thread was making a lot of grammatical mistakes while telling people how to apply for jobs. This is the reality of the situation; the employers are untouchable but employees need to be perfect. The employer can be a high school graduate but the employees need to have masters degrees. I remember getting fired from a job because of a small mistake but then I found out (much later) the employer was stealing money from employees' paychecks. We couldn't gather enough people for class action lawsuit and the business owner is still going on with his business.

curtkram
May 10, 12 10:34 am

I'm pretty sure johnnyboy's intent was not necessarily to ridicule imperfect spelling.  The posts by AALGENISS have grammatical errors that make it difficult to understand the intent he's trying to convey.  It's not a cosmetic problem; it's an inability to communicate.

So I'm going to go ahead and expand on johnnyboy's post.  In the real world, if your communication skills are below par it makes it difficult to explain to a contractor (in writing, in an ASI, in an RFI, in an email, etc.) how to build a building.  It makes it difficult to coordinate design documents between allied trades such as MEP engineers or Landsacpe Architects.  You can't do a decent job of being a real-life architect without good communication skills.  Especially with the declining profit margins common among today's design firms, the idea of hiring someone to be in charge of proofreading, and having a middle man between you and the consultants or whatever other people you're dealing with, seems ridiculous.

I'll clarify that my opinion comes from working only in smaller firms.  Perhaps there are large companies where there is a designer that does not communicate directly with clients, contractors, consultants, etc., and who gets to spend all day just designing to their heart's content.  I'm sure that person has lots of lackeys to the various tasks of an architect that might not be considered 'fun' to the average student.  If that is the case, I apologize for my misunderstand of your intent and wish you the best of luck.

p.s.  proofreading your writing on the internets is a really good way to create good habits.

p.p.s.  i think this post is off topic.  my original understanding of the intent of the OP was to question the overall future of architecture rather than the specific future of architecture for the original poster.

t a m m u z
May 10, 12 11:44 am

this depends on the context and essential role of the person in question. its very good to have it all of course  all but a truly talented designer can get away with spelling mistakes. a very exacting (linguistically and expressively) person who is not a design wizard would be a great benefit in handling coordination, meetings, drafting up letters and so on. this is the reality.

i work in the uae and there is a very wide cross section of nationalities i have to deal with. americans and brits, europeans, arabs, indians , pakistanis, filipinos and so on. correspondingly, i witness a very wide range of communication capabilities, predominantly in english. generally speaking, and have viewed/reviewed many many construction related documents,i cannot say that RF'sI, FCR's and the like demand grammatical and lexical exactitude or impeccable spelling. i would say that, with some experience, anyone with a passing or slightly-more-than-passing familiarity of the language is able to soak in the technical terminology and string up a sentence that will be understood by all parties. there is a widespread adherence to a  code that bypasses an individual's general grasp over the language.

i cite the above as an example that disproves the notion that erratic diction -within reasonable bounds- necessarily disrupts communication. i would also venture that people, with increasing experience, are able to - and are forced to, by nature of the demands of work- to acquire proficiency in drafting up more complex letters, labyrinthine contractual documents...etc. they are able to do so because they are intelligent people who develop to meet the requirements of their evolving roles. and THAT is what is more important - and more reasonable to expect from a person- than exhibiting a perfectly coiffured language skill that might very well be more a product of that person's affluent education, cultural advantage and so on. the fact that you expect to hire a bearer of the adornments of bland perfection at the get go because your  culture demands the "survivial of the fittest" is part of the reason why your culture is shooting itself in the foot, in the mouth, in the butt... 

jla-x
May 10, 12 11:52 am

Discussing the overall future of architecture is more interesting.  In my opinion, there will always be a future for architects who are able to adapt to the changing trends in society. 

 

Jefferson
May 10, 12 12:56 pm

I love that I am a licensed architect and still get to draw up the principal's designs in CAD and get to contribute nothing to the design process...this is exactly what I was hoping for.  The future of architecture is good my friends.

t a m m u z
May 10, 12 1:02 pm

aha, but you know how to spell!

toasteroven
May 10, 12 1:22 pm

thirdly, this absolutist inhuman perfectionism that elevates obsessive compulsive ticks above common sense (i.e. evaluating the the whole scope of material being submitted and taking into mind - but not exlusively prioritizing-  lexical distortions) is not a balm for the "struggling economy" but is an pathological and quite inhumane symptom.

 

f-ing awesome.  you've just described half the people in our profession.

comb
May 10, 12 1:37 pm

@Jefferson: "I love that I am a licensed architect and still get to draw up the principal's designs in CAD and get to contribute nothing to the design process...this is exactly what I was hoping for."

Well - since you have your license, you could just get your ass out the door, start your own firm, find your own clients, do all the design work yourself and pay somebody else to draw it up for you in CAD.

Or - do you suppose it's a little more compicated than that?

backbay
May 10, 12 3:24 pm

@comb you win.

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