So here is my long rant and a cry for help from anyone who knows someone associated with someone at NCARB.
I have an M.Arch from the University of New Mexico. Following my degree I moved to Canada and did all my IDP hours there. I was there, racking up hours during the change-over when NCARB stopped accepting hours that were older than 6 months prior to the time you sought an NCARB registration.
At the same time Canada went through a change where they decided to no longer administer the ARE and switched to their own ExACs exam.
This summer I moved to California. There is no way for me to apply my IDP hours and no way for me to take the ARE. No one at either governing body gives the same information about whether there is reciprocity for Canadian Architects taking the ExAC exam. (I've included those websites and paragraphs below) When i called NCARB to find out what the stroy was and where I could find reliable information, Noel in the records depatment directed me to this same confusing website and the, guess what? Hung up on me.
This bureaucracy is too much BS. It's no wonder no one wants to get licensed anymore. Help Anyone?
:
From the NCARB Website:http://www.ncarb.org/Certification-and-Reciprocity/Alternate-Paths-to-Certification/Requirements-For-Canadian-Architects.aspx
Paragraph 2 bullet 3
Alternatives to Examination Requirement
...
Written professional practice examinations administered in the province of Quebec since 1977.
"At present, the examination requirement to obtain an NCARB Certificate for a Canadian Architect will continue to be the ARE. In future, it is anticipated that Provincial and Territorial Licensing Authorities will negotiate the terms of a reciprocity agreement which will define the criteria of licensure for architects from the United States who come to Canada and for Canadian architects who go to the United States, so that it will include the ExAC."
UK and north america do not have reciprocity. thy used to, but N.A. unilaterally pulled it many years ago. So UK cancelled their agreement too.
IDP issues is why i moved to london to work after i finished m.arch.
If I return to Canada I know it will mean starting IDP from scratch and working for a few years to get license there. i think it is just part of the way of life in north america and needs to be accepted. it is a protectionist thing that is not likely to be changed. good luck ;-)
But it seems exceptionally stupid especially given the stated goal of NCARB to attract more people to become licensed. If All I'm doing is jumping through hoops, who needs it?
that sucks emilytoo. I guess that's what you get for abandoning the U.S.A. Traitor! Sure, you followed up on your promise to leave US if Bush gets re-elected. Now you want back in. Well, drop down on your knees and give us 20 (months of logged hours)!
I was under the impression that one can start taking ARE exams concurrently with logging the hours. You should just do that. Your igloo detailing skills are no good in the land of sunshine and shakes.
YOU need it, if you want to ever sign off on a project in the US without a Local Collaborating Architect.
That said, NCARB and the AREs are bloated, misguided[fucking new urbanism? are you kidding me? i dont know what 'the human scale' actually is, and I doubt the authors of Notre Dame, or St. Pauls or lets say the pyramids, did either. go tell Christopher Wren to conform to a 24 ft drive aisle in the name of historicism. I'm sure he'd appreciate it.], and out of date [in terms of what we as young architects deal with. ive never seen a 'geometry statement' on an ARE exam, but they are essential to completing a contemporary building of a certain aptitude].
Meanwhile, I do not understand why there isnt more reciprocity between NCARB and the European system? Don't we all use the IBC as a base? Smacks of money and a slow moving red tape bureacracy that is well due for vetting.
As for you steelstuds, well, there is nothing to say, really. Yeah, husband got a job, kids wanted to live near their dad. I followed. And this headache is really for what?, a missed deadline. It isn't that I'm trying to certify hours from 20 years ago, I'm trying to transfer hours already accepted by the O.A.Q. A governing board which *already* has a reciprocal relationship with the U.S.. It does suck. N.C.A.R.B is way inflexible.
Were you working in Montreal? I would be more sad about trading Montreal for LA then IDPs. Also, Quebec hardly recognizes degrees from other provinces, let alone states. It's no surprise there's going to be reprisals.
But seriously. Get a divorce and move back to Montreal! Most marriages are ticking time bombs anyways. Why compromise your professional self as well? Kids have already turned on you by playing favorites. F em!
hmmm. I hope this is the type of advice you were hoping to get from anonymous internet people. :)
Yeah, traded Montreal for SFO. Not so bad, plus the weather is way easier. I was really hoping to spark some attention at NCARB. I'm just tired of speaking to Shaniqua and Shalondra at the front office.
Don't knock on Shaniqua and Shalondra. They play minor, yet important roles in this archsploitation flick.
Sorry you are not getting any useful feedback here. The oldest regular poster on archinect is 16 years old. You see, most of the crowd here is a spillover from the WOW forums. We like to pretend we are important Architects, but in reality we all live in our parent's basements! Oh, gotta go! My plane leaves for that important site meeting on the moon!
"Shaniqua and Shalondra" -- I really hope this isn't half-assed racism and the front office of NCARB is really staffed by two sassy black women with the names of Shaniqua and Shalondra.
Emily, it's time to take your racist leanings back to Quebec. Noone needs your opinions or poutine in this here racially harmonious profession of architecture. We have so many shades of white and yellow amongst us, we are practically called eraseists!
i think you should be able get licensed in 3 years taking your exams concurrent with IDP ....it'll probably take you a year or two to take the exams anyway so ...another year or two isn't that bad
Seems to me if NCARB don't accept Canadian hours, Canada should not accept US hours..but they do. Similarly American Architects should not be welcome to take European exams as long as they continue to require Europeans (with their superior programs from the point of view of ARE content) to take the ARE. The relationship seems very unequal at the moment, so much so that I don't understand why the Europeans, as I understand it, backed out of reciprocity, with some kind of argument over NCARB wanting everyone to register with them?
But isn't everyone in an unequal relationship with the US anyway!
Can't say I agree Elisabeth. As a graduate of a European programme with teaching experience in the states, the average EU diploma does not meet the same technical standard as a US professional degree.
I may be wrong, my understanding is that in the US people study Architecture often with a very general degree, say Anthropology or Environmental study of some kind, top it off with a Masters at a School of Architecture and that's it? Are there also proper professional programs as in the UK for instance? A recent conversation with somone at the CALA (Canadian Arch. Licensing A) confirmed to me that the ARE exists as it is because of lack of regulation of American education - which is why the study of bending moments for example is located in the professional exams not in the main education? For me the key technical issues are in seismic and windloading areas, however I am not aware although I could be wrong, that prior to taking RIBA part III, American degrees are examined for deficiencies as they should be.
I checked, I'm wrong RIBA doesn't accept any overseas qualifications anymore.., and the ARB is running a set of US styled examinations to test those with non-accredited UK qualifications! Yikes, what a mess.
To Emily I would say just be glad you're living in a metropolis, not rust belt Ontario where inability to plan their way out of a paper bag means that Canadians continue to build Universities in fields!
Elisabeth, a US Masters of Architecture program for someone with an undergraduate degree in a subject other than architecture is typically a 3 to 4 year NAAB-accredited Masters program.
NAAB-accreditation ensures that the curriculum meets strict regulations (and also that the school's facilities, library collections, faculty, etc. all conform to prescribed standards.)
All NAAB-accredited programs - whether bachelor or master level programs - include several semesters of statics and structures, and are certainly required to include your example of the study of bending moments.
There are a few US states that still allow licensing without an NAAB-accredited degree (depending on the state, this requires 5 to 13 years of documented professional experience before sitting for the exams.)
The point is that if American Arch. Education were fully comprehensive much of the subject matter in the professional exams would not be there. Why is core structural matter in a professional exam? That's an obstacle to those who have studied elsewhere and the moment the approach is just suck it up.
We all have to be able to travel without instant divorce.., Canada /US is supposed to be an open border.
Nov 23, 10 2:14 pm ·
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NCARB Rant: Does absolute power corrupt absolutely? Yes.
So here is my long rant and a cry for help from anyone who knows someone associated with someone at NCARB.
I have an M.Arch from the University of New Mexico. Following my degree I moved to Canada and did all my IDP hours there. I was there, racking up hours during the change-over when NCARB stopped accepting hours that were older than 6 months prior to the time you sought an NCARB registration.
At the same time Canada went through a change where they decided to no longer administer the ARE and switched to their own ExACs exam.
This summer I moved to California. There is no way for me to apply my IDP hours and no way for me to take the ARE. No one at either governing body gives the same information about whether there is reciprocity for Canadian Architects taking the ExAC exam. (I've included those websites and paragraphs below) When i called NCARB to find out what the stroy was and where I could find reliable information, Noel in the records depatment directed me to this same confusing website and the, guess what? Hung up on me.
This bureaucracy is too much BS. It's no wonder no one wants to get licensed anymore. Help Anyone?
:
From the NCARB Website:http://www.ncarb.org/Certification-and-Reciprocity/Alternate-Paths-to-Certification/Requirements-For-Canadian-Architects.aspx
Paragraph 2 bullet 3
Alternatives to Examination Requirement
...
Written professional practice examinations administered in the province of Quebec since 1977.
From the ExAC Website: http://www.exac.ca/en/reciprocities.php
Paragraph 2--
United States
"At present, the examination requirement to obtain an NCARB Certificate for a Canadian Architect will continue to be the ARE. In future, it is anticipated that Provincial and Territorial Licensing Authorities will negotiate the terms of a reciprocity agreement which will define the criteria of licensure for architects from the United States who come to Canada and for Canadian architects who go to the United States, so that it will include the ExAC."
I dont know what to tell you, but you may have to get licensed in Canada then transfer it to USA via NCARB.
But really this is one more reason for each state to take back it's control of licensure from NCARB.
yeah the problem is they can't even tell me if a Canadian License will be recognized any longer in the U.S.
Can you go Canada to UK to US? I'd imagine being a Commonwealth nation that Canada and the UK would have a lot of legal reciprocation?
Might cost you a few grand though.
Seems like a lot of steps to accomplish the same thing, plus costly, as you said. But I suppose if there is no other way....
UK and north america do not have reciprocity. thy used to, but N.A. unilaterally pulled it many years ago. So UK cancelled their agreement too.
IDP issues is why i moved to london to work after i finished m.arch.
If I return to Canada I know it will mean starting IDP from scratch and working for a few years to get license there. i think it is just part of the way of life in north america and needs to be accepted. it is a protectionist thing that is not likely to be changed. good luck ;-)
But it seems exceptionally stupid especially given the stated goal of NCARB to attract more people to become licensed. If All I'm doing is jumping through hoops, who needs it?
that sucks emilytoo. I guess that's what you get for abandoning the U.S.A. Traitor! Sure, you followed up on your promise to leave US if Bush gets re-elected. Now you want back in. Well, drop down on your knees and give us 20 (months of logged hours)!
I was under the impression that one can start taking ARE exams concurrently with logging the hours. You should just do that. Your igloo detailing skills are no good in the land of sunshine and shakes.
YOU need it, if you want to ever sign off on a project in the US without a Local Collaborating Architect.
That said, NCARB and the AREs are bloated, misguided[fucking new urbanism? are you kidding me? i dont know what 'the human scale' actually is, and I doubt the authors of Notre Dame, or St. Pauls or lets say the pyramids, did either. go tell Christopher Wren to conform to a 24 ft drive aisle in the name of historicism. I'm sure he'd appreciate it.], and out of date [in terms of what we as young architects deal with. ive never seen a 'geometry statement' on an ARE exam, but they are essential to completing a contemporary building of a certain aptitude].
Meanwhile, I do not understand why there isnt more reciprocity between NCARB and the European system? Don't we all use the IBC as a base? Smacks of money and a slow moving red tape bureacracy that is well due for vetting.
Hear Hear jplourde.
As for you steelstuds, well, there is nothing to say, really. Yeah, husband got a job, kids wanted to live near their dad. I followed. And this headache is really for what?, a missed deadline. It isn't that I'm trying to certify hours from 20 years ago, I'm trying to transfer hours already accepted by the O.A.Q. A governing board which *already* has a reciprocal relationship with the U.S.. It does suck. N.C.A.R.B is way inflexible.
Were you working in Montreal? I would be more sad about trading Montreal for LA then IDPs. Also, Quebec hardly recognizes degrees from other provinces, let alone states. It's no surprise there's going to be reprisals.
But seriously. Get a divorce and move back to Montreal! Most marriages are ticking time bombs anyways. Why compromise your professional self as well? Kids have already turned on you by playing favorites. F em!
hmmm. I hope this is the type of advice you were hoping to get from anonymous internet people. :)
Yeah, traded Montreal for SFO. Not so bad, plus the weather is way easier. I was really hoping to spark some attention at NCARB. I'm just tired of speaking to Shaniqua and Shalondra at the front office.
Don't knock on Shaniqua and Shalondra. They play minor, yet important roles in this archsploitation flick.
Sorry you are not getting any useful feedback here. The oldest regular poster on archinect is 16 years old. You see, most of the crowd here is a spillover from the WOW forums. We like to pretend we are important Architects, but in reality we all live in our parent's basements! Oh, gotta go! My plane leaves for that important site meeting on the moon!
xoxoxo
Steven Holl
ef NCARB.... one reason why i left the profession....
Don't you kids have some important and influential uncle somewhere? Isn't that why you went into architecture in the first place? Help a sister out.
"Shaniqua and Shalondra" -- I really hope this isn't half-assed racism and the front office of NCARB is really staffed by two sassy black women with the names of Shaniqua and Shalondra.
I couldn't actually tell you their names. That would be breaking company policy.
Anyway, I never said anything about black. Now who's the racist?
Emily, it's time to take your racist leanings back to Quebec. Noone needs your opinions or poutine in this here racially harmonious profession of architecture. We have so many shades of white and yellow amongst us, we are practically called eraseists!
Couldn't we also throw in some gender equality issues. I really hate a half-stirred pot.
I would gladly crack a joke about women here, but I'm generally too scared of them.
Okay. Well thanks to all for the fun evening. Enough Architalkture, architorture, I'm going to call my lawyer.
emilytoo....that will certainly drain your pocketbook!
i think you should be able get licensed in 3 years taking your exams concurrent with IDP ....it'll probably take you a year or two to take the exams anyway so ...another year or two isn't that bad
haha 'eraseists'! ss ftw
Seems to me if NCARB don't accept Canadian hours, Canada should not accept US hours..but they do. Similarly American Architects should not be welcome to take European exams as long as they continue to require Europeans (with their superior programs from the point of view of ARE content) to take the ARE. The relationship seems very unequal at the moment, so much so that I don't understand why the Europeans, as I understand it, backed out of reciprocity, with some kind of argument over NCARB wanting everyone to register with them?
But isn't everyone in an unequal relationship with the US anyway!
the Shaniqua and Shalondra talk makes me uneasy.
Can't say I agree Elisabeth. As a graduate of a European programme with teaching experience in the states, the average EU diploma does not meet the same technical standard as a US professional degree.
I may be wrong, my understanding is that in the US people study Architecture often with a very general degree, say Anthropology or Environmental study of some kind, top it off with a Masters at a School of Architecture and that's it? Are there also proper professional programs as in the UK for instance? A recent conversation with somone at the CALA (Canadian Arch. Licensing A) confirmed to me that the ARE exists as it is because of lack of regulation of American education - which is why the study of bending moments for example is located in the professional exams not in the main education? For me the key technical issues are in seismic and windloading areas, however I am not aware although I could be wrong, that prior to taking RIBA part III, American degrees are examined for deficiencies as they should be.
I checked, I'm wrong RIBA doesn't accept any overseas qualifications anymore.., and the ARB is running a set of US styled examinations to test those with non-accredited UK qualifications! Yikes, what a mess.
To Emily I would say just be glad you're living in a metropolis, not rust belt Ontario where inability to plan their way out of a paper bag means that Canadians continue to build Universities in fields!
Elisabeth, a US Masters of Architecture program for someone with an undergraduate degree in a subject other than architecture is typically a 3 to 4 year NAAB-accredited Masters program.
NAAB-accreditation ensures that the curriculum meets strict regulations (and also that the school's facilities, library collections, faculty, etc. all conform to prescribed standards.)
All NAAB-accredited programs - whether bachelor or master level programs - include several semesters of statics and structures, and are certainly required to include your example of the study of bending moments.
There are a few US states that still allow licensing without an NAAB-accredited degree (depending on the state, this requires 5 to 13 years of documented professional experience before sitting for the exams.)
Me: hi, I sent my last hours update in 4 months ago and I don't see my account updated online.
NCARB: Give me a minute to pull your record....i see the last update you sent in here in your folder, did you want us to update your file?
Me:...um...yeah, that'd be nice.
NCARB: You should see the update applied in 2-4 weeks.
Me: wow...thanks.
The point is that if American Arch. Education were fully comprehensive much of the subject matter in the professional exams would not be there. Why is core structural matter in a professional exam? That's an obstacle to those who have studied elsewhere and the moment the approach is just suck it up.
We all have to be able to travel without instant divorce.., Canada /US is supposed to be an open border.
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