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Crisis in Gaza (fast developing story)
The crisis is deepening in Gaza as Israeli armed forces take up multi fronted offense on Hamas, Palestinian beach front and civilian infrastructures,in order to rescue the captured soldier. yahoo,aljazeera,bbc,nyt
39 Comments
This is bullshit, the crisis is NOT is Gaza, it's in Israel, with 2 missing citizens. Come on.
what's bullshit?
No kidding, the crisis in gaza is that innocent palestinians are going to be hurt because of the stupidity of hamas. read
that the crisis is in gaza
that is not bullshit. that is a huge crisis. are you saying gaza does not exist?
no one is saying that except you. all i am saying is that hamas starts things and then all of the sudden the only people that matter are those in gaza. are you saying that israel has no right to exist?
i am not saying any of those. it is your imagination. all i am doing is, posting a news about a deepening (as we speak) human crisis in gaza, a palestinian territory. linking different news sources from the world.
i did not make the story up and it is not bullshit. what's your problem?
i am not saying that this is not happening, relax. the whole world knows it's happening. i just want to post a link to a different news source than your once sided bullshit
Archinecture, its pretty obvious who has a one-sided bullshit story in this discussion. I would like to use the very cliched 4 words - "Shut the fuck up"
you must be talking about aluminum siding. no its not me...
and israel has no right to destroy a power plant and bridges for the abduction of a soldier - its all reminiscent of 'shock and awe' to a layperson like me.
hey sameolddoctor, i AM posting one side to the sotry as a counter to the one side that has been previously posted. thanks for stating the obvious.
and thanks for your very cliched 4 words
CRISIS?
More like CULTURE than anything else.
i read world news, so i wonder: didn't the palestinians elect the hardline "hamas" government, replacing the more moderate "fatah" who actually managed to quietly have israel pull out of gaza just months ago? isn't "hamas" the same terrorist organization that started this whole new mess with rocket attacks on israeli towns several weeks ago? should the palestinian people not be held accountable for their vote? isn't this the full meaning of democracy? should we learn any lesson with regard to iraq?
fatah was quite possibly booted because of its corruption, not its policies. also palestinians have at least as much a right to exist as israel. i'm not saying that israel should no longer exist, but the same argument used to create it could be used to return all of the us to indeginous control. our support of israel and its consistently reckless actions are a large cause of our problems in the middle east.
So, FrankLloydMike, would you suggest backing the "hamas" - the same people who cheered watching the twins collapse? in fact, why should we support any side altogether? (although it seems Orhan Ayyuce and Archinecture have definitely picked their sides)
no matter which side you support you ultimately pay some price. there is no "teflon" foreign policy and where there is dirt some will surely stick.
frankly, i feel the only interest we are truly promoting in the middle east is that of our SUV's.
is that the same cheering that the american media broadcast of stock footage cheering from a previous event?
Okay, before I get blue in the face about all this...I'll just give you a few debates so that people can discuss this in a space of logic and rationality.
1. AIPAC vs. Norman Finkelstein
2. Shlomo Ben-Ami vs. Norman Finkelstein
just to clarify, i wasn't saying that either side was right or wrong or more at fault, just that we almost always side with israel and let them get away with killing plenty of palestinians, but when the palestinians do something we get all heated. that's all, not taking sides
thanks for the links john.
i think some people should go 'beyond chutzpah' around here before calling me taking sides and etc. i am with prof. finkelstein and many other jewish thinkers who has the guts to call spade a spade.
since when did this site become a stupid ass political blog?? news items such as this don;t belong here
^
i wonder when people say, so as a matter of factly, what belongs news on archinect on their 1 st. sentence ever at the site.
perhaps new identity made up to hide the real face behind the intelligence?
join date: today... welcome.
Orhan, I agree with you, about that new guy.
I also enjoyed reading some of Finkelstein, that guy cracks me up so much.
And samolddoctor, if that one soldier was your son or brother you would say that Israel is justified in destroying bridges and other infrastructre.
assuming that since finkelstein and other thinkers are jewish and critical of israeli policy, their arguments have special validity is racist and stupid. just as stupid as implying that since ronenosity is new to archinect he must be wrong or hiding behind a false identity...
Orhan, let us call spade a spade: you are taking a clear side, so don't hide behind the mask of objectivity - it does not become you. nevertheless, don't be ashamed to admit it (no one will look for explanations in your religious persuasion). if you believe ronenosity is wrong, at least make this discussion candid.
josephB,
you are also 'trying' to assume i am with this or that. i have friends from both sides of the divide. i can understand finkelstein views in the context of this thread and side with those views. what is racist about that?
what is 'my' religious persuasion or lack of it has to do with this?
why you guys trying to find a hidden agenda in my post and trying to unload accusations on my name because it is a muslim name? why can't some of you deal with the situation at hand and try to enlight us with some objective information instead of whaling on me?
from my experiences with this forum in matters of questioning issues around middle east i found that most of you guys cannot stand an outspoken 'other' who can bring on the issues and puts it out there. you guys sound like as if it is 'a good muslim is a terrorist muslim.' because you seem to not able to take it otherwise.
shame. nobody is asking for a poor reaction like that.
furthermore, i find the recent moves by israeli armed forces totally inhuman.
again, i did not make up any of it and have been following the story from many sources. i specially like bbc's coverage of it and i do recommend you to check it out and follow it from there if you are interested in finding out further on this unfolding human drama.
read some field reports and situation on the civilian front where i place all my concern.
also, i really want the israeli soldier to come out alive from this also. i have all the sympathy for him and his family. the kid should never be there in the first place.
so far i've been called racist, stupid and mentioned in sentences that contain stupid ass and bullshit, for posting a news item on a humanitarian crisis involving thousands of civilians including school children, mothers and fathers in gaza whose vote is undermined, briges are blown and power plant taken out.
i repeat; civilians (the key word)...
if you cannot tolarete that, who are you?
Orhan, if any word appearing in my post offended you, i apologize. this was not my intention.
just note that you tend to invent accusations seemingly made towards yourself. for those no one needs to apologize.
honestly, as a news item your thread is a worthy one, although i highly doubt archinect was the best forum to develop this topic further.
and even if it was, don't speak in two voices: if you choose to emphasize the palestinian suffering, while knowingly ignoring the palestinian part in inciting these current events, why should you constantly remind us you have friends from both sides of the divide and that you sympathize with abducted soldier (who "should never have been there in the first place"- in an undisputed israeli territory outside the gaza strip - where else should he have been? in hawaii?). this does not lend your arguments an air of objectivity. most of us don't know the facts well enough to formalize a solid opinion in such debates, and the way you present them actually does little to help. i sincerely hope this drama in the middle east will be over soon and we can once again discuss issues that our professional degrees have better prepared us for.
again, those words and accusations are not my invention and they have your signature below them.
i am a draft dodger from turkish army. and i don't believe in draft. if, (now take this with a breath of fresh air), the situation was resolved between israel and the vicinity, with fair measures based on live and let live, there would be no israeli kids pointing guns at palestinians, no arab kids growing with hatred and there would be no room for violence to take hold. there would be no monster walls separating the olive orchards and all the faiths would be living in peace like they did for centuries. i am for peace there and i am for peace everywhere. i am against eye for an eye. i am an architect with a degree and i am an architect for peace (how's that?).
there has been many discussions on humanaterian crisis' in archinect and i don't take this one any differently.
i grew up in a secular country and i am a secular person.
and i accept your apology.
'Under the pretext of fighting terrorism, Israeli military activities continue to destroy the lives of Palestinians, reports Erica Silverman from Nablus'. Ongoing chaos via Al Ahram.
And,
Israel overruns Gaza in its anger over the kidnap of an Israeli soldier, reports Khaled Amayreh from Gaza Between violence and diplomacy.
“I am sorry with all my heart for the residents of Gaza… but the lives and well-being of Sderot’s residents are more important than those of Gaza residents.†Ehud Olmert
"Better Palestinian mothers should cry and not Jewish mothers"
-Major General Aharon Ze'evi, Israel's director of military intelligence 2003
"I wish Gaza would sink into the sea." – late Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, 1992
“We believe that one primary, unstated motive for the determination of the government of the State of Israel to get the Jewish settlers of the Qatif (Katif) settlement block out of the Gaza Strip may be to keep them out of harm's way when the Israeli government and military possibly trigger an intensified mass attack on the approximately one and a half million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, of whom about half are 1948 Palestine refugees. The scenario could be similar to what has already happened in the past - a tactic that Ariel Sharon has used many times in his military career - i.e., utilizing provocation in order to launch massive attacks.â€
Uri Davis, Ilan Pappe, Tamar Yaron – July, 2005
From,
Summer Rains
by Justin Podur
ZNet
Orhan,
thanks for the welcome.
if you are going to post widely read news items at least tell us why.
let's not mistake posting links and quotes for actual thoughts and formulated opinions. One of which does require a level of intelligence to produce.
I would have welcomed your post if you had anything to say about it, otherwise we all read the same sites and know perfectly well what is happening out there.
no ronenosity, the reason you don't welcome this because it hits you wright on the head and you can't take it. if you know all about this, you'd keep dnying it anyway. so, why bother posting a response or even reading them. leave it alone. and don't tell me what to post here. if you want to post news for archinect send in your job application and i am sure someone is gonna response to you...
okay? now go ahead and leave it alone. or post something you know about whats going on up there instead of claiming you know everything.
so far what i gathered from your short two posts, you know shit...
additionally,
in response to opinions about this particular news item's validity as a relative subject in archinect;
in my 'formulated opinion', this situation in gaza, in other palestinian territories, and in the state of israel, has more to do with [i]physical environmental issues, urban planning, post modern geography, land division politics and to a greater extend, architecture[/b], than most pretty drawings of gypsium board applications you might be thought to apply your degree or studies.
now,
do you have the level of intelligence to produce the understanding of all this? grasp the relevance? is this on your range?
think twice or more as needed.
two views from turkey; 1, 2
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