President Recep Tayyip Erdogan issued a decree Friday ordering Hagia Sophia to be opened for Muslim prayers, an action likely to provoke international furor around a World Heritage Site cherished by Christians and Muslims alike for its religious significance, stunning structure and as a symbol of conquest. — The New York Times
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan followed through on his plan today to convert Istanbul's famed Hagia Sophia, a Unesco world heritage site, into a mosque. The presidential decree was issued within minutes after Turkey’s administrative court revoked the museum status that the sixth-century structure had been assigned by Turkey's first President, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, in 1934 — itself a conversion from its previous designation as a mosque since the 15th century.
"Entry to the monument would be free of charge, foregoing the ticket price from several million visitors a year, and the first prayers inside Hagia Sophia will take place on July 24," reports The New York Times.
Erdoğan's intention had drawn international criticism in recent months and is likely to prompt reactions from Western heads of state.
22 Comments
Some friends are asking what do I think about Hagia Sophia again open to Muslim prayers. I have written my opinion commenting to this Archinect news item by the editor Alexander Walter (scroll down.) This decision by the Turkish Republic, vis a vis Erdogan, is clearly asking everybody to look at themselves in the mirror and analyze the situation. Look fairly and historically the relationship between Christianity and Islam up to 21st. Century without saying, "Oh no this is terrible, Islamofascist Erdogan, how uncivil, etc." Actually, I am not done thinking about it myself but once passed the Turkish presidential politics, this is a very fascinating examination of where we are as the world politics go, religious symbolism, international relationships, colonialism, and everything else. Also, somewhat fascinating is when and how it came up and how far Erdogan will go to verify his Strongman podium position both inside and internationally. But that's the least interesting part of this situation.
The Hagia Sofia will outlast Erdogan. It will be there in another thousand years (hopefully - see Buddha issue below). This is just another chapter. It was a church, a mosque, a museum - it will probably be each of those things again at some point in time. The most interesting thing though, is that a place built so long ago is still any type of focal point. That it's still important in any way, vital to the present.
A key issue really is that a member state of NATO is some sort of theocratic leaning dictatorship. That's the real problem with Erdogan. Civilization is a delicate thing.
Always have to be wary of leaders with mustaches (I'm looking at you Trudeau ! But he had a beard also. That's very "Canadian-Winter-Mountain-Man". but still... let's keep an eye on him, shall we?).
Will they be chiselling out, or painting over the figurative art that exists in the building? That will be problematic (see Buddhas of Bamyan in Afghanistan - oh wait, you can't). Conservators went to a great deal of trouble to get that stuff in the H.S. preserved. Just please don't let Cecilia Giménez, or her Turkish equivalent, do any restoration.
But a religious structure being used for worship? Who cares? Go to it. I always find it a little sad when "sacred" spaces are decommissioned by the almighty tourist dollar. Seeing Rubens' Descent from the Cross in its original setting, still being used for service, is pretty great actually.
But not being able to go in to see one of the great works of human achievement, that's a pity. Not that I was planning on going, though.
Everybody should just be careful, that dome collapses every few hundred years.
Menona person,
reading your post and unqualified generalizations and twisting the facts, be littling, bringing the militaristic alliance into the conversation (a common claim by Turkey/Muslim country in NATO haters) your post reads like coming from a veiled racist or an ignorant fool or both.
Here are some of the surface problems with your post,
- There's no closing the HG to visitors.
- There's no plan to alter the Justinian iconography, unqualified restoration of them or erase/chisel out.
- Turkish Republic is not Taliban and Turks spent a lot of effort and resources to keep HG healthy over the centuries...
- Somebody's mustache (it's ok if it's with a beard or Canadian?).
-Unqualified judgement on civilization's delicacy via Erdogan.
Basically your post is equivalent to those usually come up in alt-right sites. I suspect you planted some straw man stuff just in case somebody responds and sees your BS but I don't care about that.
typo, HG not, HS yes
Islamophobia as political capital in Europe... North America too. Just the styles are different. Normalized racism anyone?
try harder. you haven't exactly institutionalized your inner hate yet.
You hate someone because they believe in another belief system and therefore it's ok to not like them? Is that what you are saying? So, hate is ok? Don't play word games here.
I won't say anything on this subject anymore on Archinect. There are known racists on this site still not thrown out for good. Go stay as such cowards behind hidden names and with your sick views. You'll pay for it somewhere somehow. You don't worth my time.
"It was already evening when six years ago, thousands of women and men gathered at the Hagia Sophia Museum in Istanbul sometime in May. At the time I lived not so far from the imposing monument and know that it started to rain slowly during those hours. The drizzle first wet the streets. The gathered women and men rolled out their prayer rugs on the ancient stones. Television broadcasted their prayers, a collective wish for a second conquest of Hagia Sophia was sent out into the world from all present mouths. A powerful amen rose to the rainy sky. And now, six years after that remarkable, "spontaneous" prayer service, Hagia Sophia Cathedral is yet another mosque.
Turkish Muslims speak of a second conquest of Hagia Sophia: first in 1453 by Mehmed the Second. Now by President Tayyip Erdogan, who put an end to the decision of the founder of the Turkish Republic, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, in line with his secular worldview, to make the Byzantine masterpiece a collective property of all mankind.
And so we see that the followers of political Islam have supported Erdogan through thick and thin for a good reason. The masses could not accept that a church conquered from the Christians could no longer be a mosque and raised a man who shares the same sentiment. That is why the cathedral, which is older than Islam itself, was not allowed to be a mosque for 86 years.
At that memorable gathering six years ago, the ambition to conquer the Church a second time brought tears to its cheeks. Now the same people are shedding tears of joy in Turkey. The orange-yellow walls of the Hagia Sophia are now of Islam, the beautiful framework, the meticulous murals, the breathtaking dome ... Everything about the Hagia Sophia is finally theirs again.
The aesthetic gesture of civilization, respect, goodwill and decency of the secular has been overturned by the new bosses of the country. The great work of art no longer belongs to all humanity, but only to those who captured it in a war. The pillars that have gone through everything, the intoxicating scent of the long history that hangs inside, the pigeons on its roof, the dead in the garden ... Everything about Hagia Sophia is now from the conquerors.
I wonder if this "success" brings any peace to the ever restless souls of the conquerors. Are they finally released from their suffering? Or does everything stay with the old and is the Hagia Sophia alone in its century in, century out of the mirror that reflects the eternal misfortune in the conquerors' existence?
Hagia Sophia is like the wise men who undergo every sentence with a small smile: a smile as the modest display of superiority. In Istanbul, the conquerors built the city full of mosques that were supposed to be as beautiful as Hagia Sophia. Each time it got no further than bad counterfeiting. There is even a mosque on the Bosphorus, which is a copy of the work of the Byzantine builders down to the smallest detail. Hagia Sophia also has a view of that mosque from the hill where it stands: a small smile at the orange-yellow walls of Hagia Sophia.
In ten days, thousands of emotional Muslims will kneel for Friday prayers. A large mass under the wonderful dome by the greatest artists of the 6th century. In ten days the reunification of the immortal work of art with the people of today. A day when the conquerors will have to be satisfied with their short-lived joy of conquest, without realizing that happiness is hidden in the progressiveness, renewal, craftsmanship of the Byzantines of fifteen hundred years ago.
Preparations for the first Friday prayer after 86 years are probably now underway. Men and women will be separated again under the most beautiful dome in the world.
Hagia Sophia has seen many of those conquerors; the church saw that their search for happiness is meaningless. Hagia Sophia is old enough to know that happiness is only possible for people who are not trapped in the narrow-mindedness of their thinking. The Hagia Sophia also knows the Byzantine artists who have long since become rain and who, with every drop on its roof, reveal the secret of real happiness: "freedom, freedom, freedom ...""
Column by Erdal Balci in Volkskrant (Dutch newspaper, translation via google) Source: https://www.volkskrant.nl/colu...
The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children.
So this isn’t going to be that dramatic, and is kind of boring really...
Ugh.
Okie dokie. Here we go.
Dear Orhan:
First thing: Don't refer to me as a racist.
People like to sling that word around these days like it’s confetti. That word has a meaning, and applying it toward me in any way - is inaccurate.
Second thing: Ignorance. I feel the need to point out – you don’t know anything about me.
Now, it should further be noted that “Mustache” is NOT a race. It’s a lifestyle.
Please see Family Guy Season: 6 Episode: 8
McStroke First Aired: January 13, 2008
I do not condone or support the moustache lifestyle.
My effort at humor apparently didn’t land or was misunderstood. My intention was to jokingly establish my distrust of Mr. Erdogan, based on his mustache. I aimed to establish his dangerousness as a head of state, based on an association of Mr. Erdogan (and his moustache), with the likes of people with names like Saddam, Adolf, and Stalin. All notorious moustache wearers, and notoriously bloodthirsty, demagogue-ic types.
I did not point out in my post, that my distrust of Mr. Erdogan is actually the result of my watching video of his “security” detail committing felonious assaults on Turkish expatriate protestors in Washington D.C. during a visit to the U.S. a couple years ago.
I didn’t include that my distrust of him is also a result of reports that he (or his government) and former U.S. National Security Advisor Michael Flynn attempted to arrange an extra-legal, extra-judicial, kidnapping and exfiltration out of the US of one of Mr. Erdogan’s critics who currently lives in the Poconos in Pennsylvania.
I dislike him, Not because he is Muslim, Not because he is Turkish, Not because he has a moustache – I dislike him because I think he’s a bad person and a dangerous leader. I’ve chosen to judge him based, not on the color of his skin – but by the content of his character. Like I was taught in school.
It should be noted that there has been much speculation about the trustworthiness and security of Turkey with respect to the safe forward deployment of Nuclear Weapons on U.S. airbase installations in Turkey. This was in the news. Thus the NATO issue I alluded to.
Additionally, with regard to world leaders and moustaches. My warning to, and about, Mr. Trudeau was intended as irony. It was intended to humorously bolster my suspicion of Mr. Erdohan. And help point out that my distrust of him was not actually based on his moustache. I didn’t intend for anyone to believe that I felt French Canadian Prime Ministers have more of a right than Turkmen to wear moustaches. All moustaches are ridiculous. My brother had a moustache. Additionally, I’m not sure “Canadian” is a “race” either. But that’s neither here nor there.
The inclusion of Mr. Trudeau was meant to clarify my attempt at humor based on the fact that
That was apparently not made clear. I don’t think it’s as funny explained like this – but then it was never really a strong joke to begin with.
As for My ignorance, well, here you’ve got me. I confess I really don’t know too much about the Republic of Turkey. My knowledge of the nation and its people is largely based on a pack of Turkish cigarettes I purchased once in college, and an episode of Travel Man I watched, where Richard Ayoade went to Istanbul with a friend for a weekend. “Too Turkish.” It’s on YouTUBE. Check it out.
But you know who did know a lot about Turkey and its people? Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. He may be better known as the founder of the Republic of Turkey and a respected 20th century world leader. He thought that decommissioning the Hagia Sophia from active worship was a good idea. Erdogan feels otherwise. The question is: Why.
In Erdogan’s case, to him, Religion is tool. A political tool. Generally speaking, Religion is a tool, very much like a table saw – it can be used to create wondrous things, but if you don’t remain vigilant, before you know it, people are missing fingers and there’s blood everywhere.
So now, onto the Architecture.
I thought that the most invective-inducing part of what I posted, was that I thought it was OK to reestablish the Hagia Sophia as a place of worship. I would seem to be very much in the minority everywhere in that regard. It’s my architectural background that tells me the program of the building was “sacred space”. It seems to me not entirely a bad thing that it should be returned to use in active worship. It served that purpose continuously for 1400 years until the 20th century when it was converted to museum status. But again Mustafa Kemal Atatürk thought otherwise and I would respect his thoughts on the matter more than mine own.
I think perhaps that it would be a good idea to have Friday Prayers for the Muslims, and then an Eastern Orthodox Service on Saturday. The rest of the week, Museum! But let’s face it, that would never work. So I think usage as a mosque, maybe a little preferable to inert status as a museum. But the political cross pollination is the dangerous thing here. Vigilance !!
That said – Re-Mosquing the building will likely require something be done about the figurative art inside. Now, I would be concerned if the Amish took over the H.S. because they have similar prohibitions regarding a “no graven images” thing.
No the Turks are not the Taliban. But then the Taliban wasn’t always the Taliban either. At issue from my point of view is the transference of the stewardship of important historic cultural heritage from the hands of conservators, to the “devout” attendees of the reconstituted flock of the faithful. That was the issue I was alluding to with respect to the Spanish woman who “fixed” the Ecco Homo painting. Historically, the figurative art at the Hagia Sophia was plastered over. Will that be done again? This is an issue.
Every construction of a building is an act of Politics. From the interior reno of the hair salon in a strip mall, to the 15 century-old edifice that is a hinge in the history of human civilization.In the case in Turkey, it's a little more important though.
The issue at hand really is, why did this particular president of Turkey, do this particular thing, at this time? My thought is that It’s purely a gesture of converting religious sentiment into human political support. That’s dangerous. I doubt Istanbul is suffering from a shortage of Mosques. So this isn’t really about faith, it’s about power and secular politics.
Suffice to say, I do not enjoy being referred to as an ignorant racist. And I have an overdeveloped part of my brain that secretes high doses of sarcasm. I’ll wind up with this: You should be more careful about slinging arrows of outrageous invective and false labels on people. That’s how people wind up losing jobs and getting their statues torn down and thrown in the river.
Yay the internet!
and... Mmmmmmmmmmustache.
Dear Nona,
you're right, the second post is kind of boring as it doesn't say anything different than the same things you've said before, except this one reads a bit more passive aggressive. Use of humor doesn't change it. Maybe you see it too.
So, there's not much to respond anymore than I already have.
I have asked this. Can you respond to this paragraph?
"This decision by the Turkish Republic, vis a vis Erdogan, is clearly asking everybody to look at themselves in the mirror and analyze the situation. Look fairly and historically the relationship between Christianity and Islam up to 21st. Century without saying, "Oh no this is terrible, Islamofascist Erdogan, how uncivil, etc." Actually, I am not done thinking about it myself but once passed the Turkish presidential politics, this is a very fascinating examination of where we are as the world politics go, religious symbolism, international relationships, colonialism, and everything else."
What's your take on it?
Did you look into anti-Islam wave in Europe in last 20-25 years? In US even in Canada for that matter? Goggle has a lot of material on that. You might find some reasons in this tit-for-tat between the powers that be. If you say "Hmm.." it is a good start.
I don't condone any thing Turkish President and his party does, his love of his country is too nationalistic for me. His Ottoman ambitions is a threat to the secular Republic I grew up in. I am with the opposition party, all major cities have social democratic mayors now, including mine. I hope 2023 will also be the end of his ruling party.
My father took me to Ayasofya when I was ten years old and I have been there many times since. The building gives me the chills and tears. It is that magnificent. I don't directly see Christianity or Islam, I see human achievement and architecture.
One thing I agree with your laissez faire attitude is that HS should be open for Christian service too.
It's all on the table now and there are discussions about that between Turkish public.
Unlike some countries in Europe which pushes its Mosques to undiscript former warehouse type of buildings, Turkey has a lot of functioning Churches and Synagogues. And, all the Mosques are open to public regardless of their religion or lack of it.
And now, as predicted, HS is open to everyone without a steep museum fee.
Finally, I'll take your word you are not a racist but please stop belittling and research a bit before making expert statements bereft of critical thinking and engaging both sides of the argument. Peace.
I expect our views on this situation are a little more similar than this exchange would lead one to believe. It also seems this issue is a little more personal to you than it is to me. That would explain perhaps the vibrancy of your initial reaction here.
Passive-aggressive is a nice step down from agressive-agressive. And now here we are, a short time later, in a more civil exchange and we can all be friends again.
"His Ottoman ambitions is a threat to the secular Republic I grew up in."
That's basically the underlying point of my position and beliefs. I recognize Erdogan is an aberration. There's one of those in the American presidency right now too. And earlier this month the one in the US tried to commandeer Mt. Rushmore and a historic church for his own similar Imperial ambitions. It's the same move, just with different artifacts.
Anyway. I'm done here. I hope you're well, and if you still have family in Turkey, I hope they're well and everything around them is good.
I'm out.
Thanks Archinect.
Another o[pinion in Art Review:
What Turning Hagia Sophia into a Mosque Really Means
Interesting read! Link didn't work for me, here is one that works: https://artreview.com/what-turning-hagia-sophia-into-a-mosque-really-means/?fbclid=IwAR3eplynRfIkv-ERXeF4pklpCNcrCrtz3SffCW5N8j9wkzTHFzUX26WeZ0o
Some interesting new artifacts. The new memorobilia coins and and sail like curtains which will screen the iconographia during the prayers.
only in turkey!
they look so happy!
This is the best article I have read on this subject. Well researched, objective, and well built. Knowing Turkish current politics, it's a good article to understand and shape your opinions on the subject.
https://www.jadaliyya.com/Details/41451/The-Reversion-of-the-Justice-and-Development-Party-and-the-Legends-of-Hagia-Sophia?fbclid=IwAR0fGq64KMAJvmrvYWQ6svHneRoB7poa1_Qh2ysjTvfVUDDYQgM4-YDQXSc
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