Riots caused tens of millions of shekels in damage and destroyed the Shoafat and Es-Sahl station [...] Residents of Jerusalem’s Shoafat neighborhood are unlikely to enjoy service on the city’s light rail network for several months as CityPass, the company that operates the system, works first to repair the rails and signaling mechanisms destroyed during last week’s rioting, and only later the stations serving the area. — Haaretz
The Shoafat and Es-Sahl light rail stations in East Jerusalem were attacked last week after news broke that an Arab young man – Mohamed Abu Khdeir – had been kidnapped, burned alive, and abandoned in a forest. Many commentators view the killing as vengeance for the recent deaths of three Israeli teenage settlers in Hebron, in the Occupied West Bank, which the Israeli government has blamed on Hamas. The situation is tragic – and rapidly escalating. At least 27 Palestinians have been killed and 130 wounded in the intense bombardment the Israeli army has unleashed on Gaza in the past few days.
The attack on the light rail stations were committed by Israeli Arabs and Palestinians who live in the areas around the stations. For many, the destruction is highly symbolic. When first constructed, the light rail was considered by some to be a symbol of the possibility of peaceful coexistence between Arabs and Jews. However, for others, it was viewed similarly to the massive border wall demarcating the West Bank: a piece of infrastructure that ensures the continued imposition of apartheid politics on Arabs by Israelis. After all, East Jerusalem is still considered by international law to be illegally-occupied territory. By connecting the territory to the rest of Jerusalem via infrastructure, the Israeli government signaled it has absolutely no intention of ever returning the land back to its original and lawful inhabitants. In return, by destroying the light rail, those involved assumedly meant to signal that they would continue to resist.
This is just one of many cases in which infrastructure has been utilized as a political tool. In 1994, the American-born Israeli extremist Baruch Goldstein opened fire on Muslims engaged in prayers at the Ibrahimi Mosque in Hebron, West Bank. While the Israeli government condemned the attack, their reaction to the subsequent riots including the banning of Palestinians from entering the formerly-active market of Al-Shuhada Street (a ban which persists today.) For many, these policies are fundamentally similar to those of South Africa during apartheid, which had advanced infrastructure for whites but relegated black people to townships with abysmal conditions. 
Of course, similar practices have occurred, and still occur, in the United States. Before the civil rights movements, urban infrastructure served as the terrain for the forced subjugation of African-Americans. Today, one could argue the same practices persist, targeting the poor, and, in particularly disenfranchised people of color. For example, the Department of Water and Power in Detroit has been shutting off water for the city's poorest residents.
114 Comments
jla-x, perhaps it is you who should be reading others' posts, posts by people who know more than you do in regards to the region and are not circumscribed by cliches pedalled by your controlled media. Hamas was democratically elected by the Palestinians in Gaza in 2006. In fact, this so upset the US - supposedly a beacon of democracy- that they hatched plots of overthrow them by working with corrupt Fatah factions.
Hamas is a grass root organisation that has come about from within the Palestinians themselves; it offers social, economic, welfare and so on services. it is entrenched within the palestinian society. its raison d'etre is fighting the Israeli occupation.
Your moronic "logic" about being not throwing stones in order to not to have a wall does not take into account that Israel has even taken advantage of peace talks in order to further its settlements, kill and plunder. ISrael is practicing a consistent ongoing policy of human displacement irrespective of a wish for peace on the other side.
Below, you see another visualization illustrating this
)contn'd, to jla-x) You state that you don't demonize ...whereas you do indeed demozine. Hamas is- excepting where US wields its influence to bully others in declaring them terrorists or where indeed the very state is an acquiescent US client like Jordan and Egypt (at least during Mubarak's period, we have yet to see what unfolds with Sissi)- seen as an integral part of the Resistance. Furthermore, it is not just Hamas that is now defending Gaza, there are three or four other factions that have risen up.
jla x Hamas are not freedom fighters they are not engaging in self defense and they are not very smart if their goal is genuinely to free their people.
What do you know? I'm already telling you, the Palestinians are quite simple fucked if they don't resolve to violence. This is the only language that Israel understands. Review their record of the Lebanese 2006 war, a replication of which is occuring right now in Gaza. The Israelis themselves view it as a defeat. The strategy played by the Resistance is not to overpower ISrael (which is clearly the larger power) but to create a equivalence of threat or what military strategist call a "balance of terror". You hit Beirut (or Gaza(, we hit Tel Aviv. You hit the suburb of Lebanon, we hit Haifa...so on. Since the 2006 war, Israel no longer attacks Lebanon like it used to, no longer attacks our villages and towns. In fact, violent force against Israel - an intelligent strategy of prohhibitive violence- has proven to be the best and the most intelligent self defense mechanism.
jla-x: Instead these assholes are power hungry thugs that would devolve into a shirty oppressive state if given the chance.
excuse me, but you cross a line. it is you who are shitty. these people come from families who have had members murdered and killed by Israel. I myself know people who have survived massacres by Israeli soldiers who barge into houses, killed a guy's family members when he was a kid and he hid behind the corpses of his parents and pretended to be dead. I reiterate, these are palestinians who have organized themselves into a group meant to defend their lands and families. You, with your pompous ignorance, relying on nothing but a history of misrepresentations and cliches aired on controlled biased media, deem yourself knowledgeable enough to be calling these members of the resistance "animals" and "power hungry thugs"? Do yourself a favour and shut up; you betray nothingshort of your ignorance and your arrogance.
jla-x Had the guy run into a crowd of innocents however, I would not have thrown a bomb at him to get him at the expense of the others around him
Your analogy is as morinic as your logic. In this case, we are talking about w whole crowd of people stealing your possessions, your house, your land, kiiling your family members. Furthermore, there is no distinction between Israeli civility and Israeli military. Israel civilians are obliged to serve in their army and militarily aid their country in persecuting the Palestinians. Next time you shake the hand of an Israeli adult "civilian", think that this hand could have held a gun pointed at Palestinians children. Furthermore, Israel is nearly always the one to instigate these strikes, one way or the other. They fire into civilian areas....you expect the Palestinians to do what? desperately find an army barracks (because of course the Palestinians have the latest technologies, the latest drones, the latest weapons) and shoot it? Are you for real or do you just chronically talk out of your ass?
jla-x " There is no fighting chance. If they were smart they would not give Israel any excuse for violence."
I took the time to criticize your post in my previous on and yet you give voice to the same silly convictions. You even claim that it is not your position that you do something and then you go on and redo it (like claiming that you don;t demonize, then you go with regurgitated material demonizing Hamas - as above). Here to, I have already provided you with a response, I repeat : To criticize this right to self-defend - when the powers of the US, Canada, a large part of the western world supports Israel nearly unconditionally- under the repulsive guise of inane pacifist "political correctness" is part of the attack against Palestinians, part of the war being waged on them in order to even ethically deprive them of the right of self defense. By that I mean criticizing Palestinians' right to wage war against their occupiers, their torturers and the usurpers of their land claiming that this will lead to the unfortunate death on the other side. What sort of perverse logic is this?
I will also repeat, Palestinians, all Palestinians, irrespective of religions and its lack, have the right to pick up arms and defend themselves against the colony that calls itself Israel. Hamas, Fatah, Islamic Jihad...etc etc
Now, all that aside, do I have reservations about Hamas? Yes, I do....but my reservations are totally besides the point and impertienent to my support for their struggle against Israel. I will not delve into this point because you are too ignorant, too up your own ass (I'm still talking to jla-x), too unable to intellectually discriminate between what is right and what is wrong (instead of collapsing everything, immorally, into this rubbish position that both Israel and Hamas are rotten when there is clearly one who has practiced a slow genocide against the other's people). From within your ignorance, you want to issue edicts and judgements based on very little knowledge that ha been packaged to you by people who have a bias in these successive tragedies committed against the PAlestinians.
Your insults don't phase me. Think what you want. I did not in any way deny the aggressive and repressive nature of the zionists. I only rejected the idea of firing missiles into civilian areas. I reject it morally because its wrong to blow people up and logistically because Israel is a much bigger and more powerful nation. You are a hothead and know it all. The tactics of "throwing rocks" won't work don't care how many graphs you post. Never will in a million years. Nothing will change with these tactics and all they are doing is reinforcing the unjust position of the Zionists. You Tammuz are preaching that violence is the only means of rebellion. Problem is that once the rebelling side wins the violent ones have already simmered to the top and they are the ones to now lead with what they know best violence.
Also Tammuz, your idea of self defense is complete bullshit. Answer this...if you fire a rocket and every time two come flying back then are you really defending yourself and family. If you punch someone and they punch you back twice then you're actually beating yourself up no?
The greatest threat to the "prison system" is not violence. Lol. The prison is made for that. The biggest threat is the absence of violence which makes the whole structure obsolete.
As for good people and assholes being scattered on both sides. Yeah if 100 Palestinians and 100 Israelis were swapped at birth and lived on other sides then what. If you Tammuz were born in Israel into a Zionist family then that's what you would be.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v34/n23/eyal-weizman/short-cuts Short Cuts
jla-x,
I called you three things, I believe. Ignorant and arrogant were accurate descriptions and not insults. You make accusations based on lack of knowledge or very warped knowledge.
Shitty, because you yourself started resorting to this language in describing a group of people who have more honour in their fingernails in defending their people and their country than you have in your life. I told you, you crossed a line. When you start calling them animals and so on, you cross the line. My reaction has nothing to do with my emotions; you deserve being called shitty.
Thirdly, Hamas were not actually the ones to start firing rockets into Israel - check your facts before you start blabbing like a fool. The PAlestinian parties that did were responding to the mass destruction of homes by Israel as a cynical ploy, using the Israel outrage at the killing of the ISraeli settlers, in order to fuel their agenda of obliterating Gaza. What are the Palestinian supposed to do? According to your logic, sit peacefully, chanting kumbaya outside their homes while Israel demolishes their homes? They have all the right to respond.
I have written at length to justify why ISrael doesn't understand a language other than violence. That "civilians" die..on either side...ask yourself, who is really to blame? The victim of the policy of racist displacement or the entity that stands behind this policy and the instigator of wars in this area? Your idealism in not wanting civilians to die on both sides leads you, moronically, to dismiss the exigencies of the context, and to pass on a judgement that takes no account of the conditions and the context.
Ideally, no one should die, I agree. But if your people start stealing my home, killing my family, building a big wall around my stolen home to keep me out while all the neighbours look on nonchalantly, while the great powers support you unconditionally.....and I start throwing stuff over the wall that will indeed lead to the death of some of your family, I become as morally accountable as you?
Your logic is moronic, this is not an insult, its a description.
Tammuz, if you think it is honorable to fire rockets into people's homes then you are seriously fucked up in the head. I do not see the difference between killingIsraeli civilians, Palestinian civilians, or any other civilians but apparently you do. You Create historical and tactical justifications for it. There are none. Certain acts are not justifiable under any circumstances. To me people are people. I love them all and i feel for all of them equally and I mean this its not western media bullshit. Only a person with a small and depraved mind could justify killing some kids to get retribution for other animals killing kids. Yes both side act like animals. Unfortunately most people caught between on both sides are good people who just want to live in peace. These tactics you support have the honor of drive by shootings and are about as effective in resolving the situation as the LA riots were in resolving the King case. I agree with the fact that the israeli state is guilty of murder but the tactics used by Hamas are wrong and if you support that then You are wrong my friend and no better then the murderous Israelis you rail against.
Your people my people blah blah. Stupid tribalism and nationalism is the root of the problem. All you do is reinforce this stupid mentality.
jla-x, you are being redudant and your moronic logic really has no place in the equation. In fact, I willl rerepeat this:
To criticize this right to self-defend - when the powers of the US, Canada, a large part of the western world supports Israel nearly unconditionally- under the repulsive guise of inane pacifist "political correctness" is part of the attack against Palestinians, part of the war being waged on them in order to even ethically deprive them of the right of self defense. By that I mean criticizing Palestinians' right to wage war against their occupiers, their torturers and the usurpers of their land claiming that this will lead to the unfortunate death on the other side. What sort of perverse logic is this?
Go preach your love for humanity to the colonial entity that adopts, as a policy- not as self denfense, not as spurious acts- of the displacement of the Palestinians.
In maintining a higher-than-thou detached couch morality, divorced from context, inculcated by the a puerile egocentric individualism (posited against what you call`tribalism...what we call societies and families who belong to their lands, who cultivate it, whose cultures arise from their settings) you are immoral in equating the acts of self defense with the agenda of racist displacement and in invalidating self-defense
No, you don`t love people. You love the idea of it; its a meaningless sentiment that perverts the flow of logic between the assaulter and the victim, between racist aggression and dispossession and self-defense.
Yes, these are honourable. As honourable as people such as the South African resistance, as honorable as the Vietnamese resistance,etc. Its not an abstract term for them - it is the refusal to subcuumb to colonization and repression. History is rife with examples of this, the oly difference is that Palestine tragedy is a persistent one.
Honour is not arrogance; however, basing your judgement on your contextually detached new-agey individualistic " Ì love people" idiocy is arrogance. Your family is not being arrested, your father is not shot, your home is not being taken over. You have the luxury to maintain this insipid belief of yours---which I believe is one of the insiduous tools your governments use in order to trick you into waging wars against others. What you`re saying is a trickle-down effect of studies andinterpretatios of dentities (tribalism and so on), many of which are deliberately employed for denigrating societies around the world.
You are ignorant, misinformed, brainwashedand and illogical. Yes, I believe that when Israel starts to demolish Palestinian houses, incarcerate hundreds of people, Palestinian,s all Palestinians have the right to retaliate
I repeat (because you have yet to present a credible response):
What are the Palestinian supposed to do? According to your logic, sit peacefully, chanting kumbaya outside their homes while Israel demolishes their homes?
Peace talks with Israel have proven to lead nowhere. In the meantime, Palestinians are being thrown of their land, incarcerated, near starved and killed. What help does your `I love all people`do to them. They have all the right to slf-defend.
You are so perverse. You put on par the collateral damage of self defense with plans dictated by the clear agenda of displacement andslow genocide. Your perverse dissociated "i love all people" bullshit blinds you to what is right and wrong.
There will always be victims and there will always be agressors in history. Collapsing the difference between the actions of one and the actions of another will not lead to what you perceive as being justice. It will lead to the further victimization of the victim by obfuscating his victimhood and by ridding her or him of the right to self defend.
Go sell your nonsensical flower power to the Israeli entity and be glad that you`re not Palestinian so you don`t get thrown into jail or shot at while you`re at.
Or better yet, just go disappear into that ridiculous party in the middle of the desert that you were talking about once. since you have relinquished your responsibility -as you suggested then- and- as you indicate now- your sense of what is right and wrong.
creature, don't think those "animals" love their sons daughters mothers fathers relatives fellow palestinians their olive trees land they build their houses on ? don't you think they fall in love enjoy a peaceful moment under the vine cook and eat and live? don't you think they would love to travel freely on their ancestral soil bath in the mediterranean sea dance to their music?
do you think, creature, instead they are choosing to carry heavy weapons fight die lose their home burn get humiliated by 18 yo israeli soldiers being yelled disrespected treated like third class unwanted people not worthy of their caliber of refinement? do you really think they like their water rationed live in filth sewage and constant fear of punishment at will? no passport airport school for decades?
creature, do you think you would like to live under those circumstances cornered hopeless your future in some zealots' hand and will? do you think you wouldn't resist after 70 years of this in increasing brutality? what would you do if you were there and subject to all this and years of being discriminated criminalized fucked?
wtf? what's wrong with you?
creature, can you love? or capable of loving? do you feel anything?
those animals do.
Tammuz, if you weren't so stupid you would be very smart.
You prove that there is a huge difference between being clever and being intelligent.
All you seem to care about is "winning" arguments even when people are basically agreeing/empathizing with the main point of your argument- that the treatment of Palestinians is wrong and the policies of the west are unjust. So now who is the egocentric individualist?
"In maintining a higher-than-thou detached couch morality, divorced from context, inculcated by the a puerile egocentric individualism"
so what are you an internet revolutionary?
No, you don`t love people. You love the idea of it; its a meaningless sentiment that perverts the flow of logic between the assaulter and the victim, between racist aggression and dispossession and self-defense.
again, its incredibly egocentric to think that you can get into the mind of someone whom you do not know. Arrogance at its finest. What do you know who I love. What do you know where I am from or what media I watch? You assume certain things about people so that they can fit into your neat mold of "western enemy" so that you can make simplistic blanket arguments against me. Let me ask you....how is that different from the racist rhetoric that assumes all Muslims are brainwashed women beating extremists? You are an eye for an eye thinker huh...and this mentality will leave the world eyeless...nothing gained but pride via revenge...aka egotism...
you are immoral in equating the acts of self defense with the agenda of racist displacement and in invalidating self-defense
I would never invalidate self defense...I own a gun and I will kill anyone who enters my home to do me harm...everyone has that right...I am only invalidating retribution against people loosely associated with the agressors... especially since it is not acting as a derterent but rather creating further bloodshed on both sides...This leads me to question the intent of the "freedom fighters"
You are so perverse. You put on par the collateral damage of self defense with plans dictated by the clear agenda of displacement andslow genocide. Your perverse dissociated "i love all people" bullshit blinds you to what is right and wrong.
Mental retardation possibly? Utter biased bullshit....Is this what seperates us from the Chimps...This thin layer of self bullshitting...How can you possibly call killing innocent people collateral damage when its this attitude that is what is killing "your" people. Its so hypocritical.
There will always be victims and there will always be agressors in history. Collapsing the difference between the actions of one and the actions of another will not lead to what you perceive as being justice. It will lead to the further victimization of the victim by obfuscating his victimhood and by ridding her or him of the right to self defend.
With this mentality we will always be slightly more clever apes and our survival will be short. You may need to put down the history books and pick up a book on physics...it seems that you perspective is too limited to make a rational argument.
Or better yet, just go disappear into that ridiculous party in the middle of the desert that you were talking about once. since you have relinquished your responsibility -as you suggested then- and- as you indicate now- your sense of what is right and wrong.
Too expensive... Id rather buy a pound of weed and argue with you on archinect :)
creature, don't think those "animals" love their sons daughters mothers fathers relatives fellow palestinians their olive trees land they build their houses on ? don't you think they fall in love enjoy a peaceful moment under the vine cook and eat and live? don't you think they would love to travel freely on their ancestral soil bath in the mediterranean sea dance to their music?
do you think, creature, instead they are choosing to carry heavy weapons fight die lose their home burn get humiliated by 18 yo israeli soldiers being yelled disrespected treated like third class unwanted people not worthy of their caliber of refinement? do you really think they like their water rationed live in filth sewage and constant fear of punishment at will? no passport airport school for decades?
creature, do you think you would like to live under those circumstances cornered hopeless your future in some zealots' hand and will? do you think you wouldn't resist after 70 years of this in increasing brutality? what would you do if you were there and subject to all this and years of being discriminated criminalized fucked?
wtf? what's wrong with you?
creature, can you love? or capable of loving? do you feel anything?
those animals do.
Is this directed at me? I will assume so...
I agree with everything you said!
The Israeli regime is an oppressive state and its policies are evil. Many of the people in charge are also possibly evil....But the civilians are not in any way...they are there by circumstance and had you been born there you would too. Correct?
Even though the I disagree and dislike the state of isreal I don't see how this justifies firing rockets at civilians. I also don't see how this makes the situation better for the Palestinians. Once someone does this they are an ANIMAL in my mind. They are acting out of anger which satisfies nothing but their own thirst for revenge. If I saw someone aiming a rocket at a crowd of children/civilians black white red or brown I would beat them to death mercilessly if I had the chance. So yes killing civilians out of revenge makes one an animal.
That said, If ones family is killed by these Israeli thugs I can completely understand their anger and hatred...its human...but killing others who are not directly responsible for it makes you no better. It is WRONG to do it and incredibly cowardly to support it via internet.
So yes creature, I agree with you that something must change. I agree that the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves. I agree that the majority of aggression is coming from Israel. I agree that they are being treated no better than the Nazis did to the jews....I agree creature. I don't agree that resorting to the cowardly act of firing rockets indiscriminately into a city is a solution or a morally justifiable from of revenge/warfare. I disagree with the US for doing it via drone and nuke, I disagree with all countries and individuals that do this because it is always wrong no matter what the situation.
From `Can we stop pretending Israel is being attacked`
Make no mistake – Israel is occupying Palestine illegally and ruthlessly punishing them anytime they try to fight back. The latest flare-up of violence is no different. Regardless of who started the latest mini-war, it makes little difference when looking at the larger picture. The fact remains that Palestinians were being collectively punished for the barbaric killing of three Jewish teenagers when Israeli troops illegally went into the West Bank and rounded up hundreds of Hamas activists. It provoked another round of counter-attacks from Hamas, and predictably, Netanyahu responded with massively disproportionate violence that has so far led to the deaths of more than 100 Palestinians. So far, no Israelis have died from Hamas’s ineffective rocket fire.
The fact is, if the situation were reversed, there would be a far different response from the US media. Imagine Hamas sending soldiers into Israel after the Palestinian teenagerMohammed Abu Khdair was burned alive in order to round up hundreds of Jewish extremists. How would Israel respond to a foreign army encroaching on its territory and illegally detaining its citizens? They would rightly deem it an invasion and would do everything in their power to fight back. The problem is, Palestinian lives are not seen as being equal to Israeli lives, so Israel can do what it pleases in the land it occupies. As legendary Israeli military leader and politician Moshe Dayan once said: “We don’t have a solution, and you will continue living like dogs, and whoever wants will go, and will see how this procedure will work out.”
Israelis routinely claim that they have to defend themselves against Palestinian attacks. But occupying someone else’s land is an attack itself, so it is impossible to defend yourself if you are the person attacking. So can we please stop pretending Israel is being attacked? (Image source: Reuters)
To repleat: , Netanyahu responded with massively disproportionate violence that has so far led to the deaths of more than 100 Palestinians. So far, no Israelis have died from Hamas’s ineffective rocket fire.
Netanyahu should be prosecuted for war crimes.
I myself have some issues with the article. Many suspect this `tragic three teenagers`story being pedalled around as a `convenient`alibi. There is talk also of these `thre teenagers`having beeen soldiers. Furthermore, Hamas -who always claim ownerhip of acts against Israe- have stated that they were not responsible for this, if it actually did indeed happen. Secondly, I believe Palesinians have the right to always attack Israel...until such a day when there is no Israel. By that, I mean there is no such thing called Israel, a state that wants to kick the original residents, declare itself Jeish (or indeed driven by any other religious facism) in order to preclude the others.
jla-a calls me a coward for standing up for Palestinian rights. S-he adds being petty to the list of descriptions s-he is acquiring.
Israel itself should be ``proscuted`` for war crimes. Netanyahu is nothing but the figurehead of a racist state that has historically followed a clear program of displacing and opressing Palestinians. This is not just a temporary manifestation, its not just about a personality or even a current givernmental admistration. . I have stated before- Israel is primarily a military colony. Its adults serve in the army - there is very little difference between civilian and military.
Hence, all logic to absolve Israeli society of the opression of the Palestinains is illogical. Israeli support their government and their army and they serve in it.
Tammuz -Sorry no Member of Editorial Board Architects for Peace for you
"all Palestinians, irrespective of religions and its lack, have the right to pick up arms and defend themselves against the colony that calls itself Israel. Hamas, Fatah, Islamic Jihad...etc etc"
"I believe Palesinians have the right to always attack Israel...until such a day when there is no Israel"
Everyone who Tammuz has insulted should read this (It's brutally depressing but try to get through it):
http://archinect.com/forum/thread/64743/my-point-of-view
Think about the type of person who would include something like this on an Architecture form. Spouting off your hatred and advocating violence is just an internet obsession for you. It's also a serious indication of metal illness.
Please - No more cries for help.
Jla-x That was a bad period for me. The fact that you use that post against me only makes you more petty and actually cruel. You've sunk to an irrelevant attack on my person by suggesting that a depressing period I went through invalidates my opinions, my critivisms and my contributions here. You are a lowlife hypocrite who says s/he "loves all people" and yet who is pathetically spiteful and petty to resort to such despicable measures. As I said, your logic is moronic, your derivations irrelevant and do not take any if my criticisms and information afforded into account. I see how withered and meaningless your flower power is like.
Jwl, orhan is a sick fuck if he really believes that. I hope he was drunk when writing that. That's absolutely horrible. Also sat in on a review he was on. He's a terrible crit. Sat there with a puss on his face without offering anything useful. Fake ass tough guys. Peace is the only thing worth it my friends. Love and peace homie.
That was not me Tammuz.
Didn't even bother reading it because it is irrelevant to the topic.
Jwl rather being the lowlife petty etc. Apologies for that one jla-x.
jwl is the same clown who once wrote "It's amazing how people can act behind their fake names."
Despite the obvious comic irony, I was kind of hoping he had vanished back up his own ass forever.
i saw read that post of hers or his on my phone....and i just saw that his name started with "j"., the text is so small..so i thought it was jla-x (since s/he was the one i was replying to. )again, sorry jla-x for that before the last reply of mine. actually i was taken aback because you haven't done something like that before. but you calling resistance factions "animals" was crossing a line, that is why i crossed the line with you.
whoever that person is, she went through quite the trouble in fishing that ancient post up. I wonder for what ulterior motives? And I don't know why...the only person I was criticizing in it was myself. I have or had or whatever bad self esteem, so what? How irrelevant to the material and discussions here. Really petty.
Tammuz is calling for a destruction of a nation and people. Advocating extreme violence multiple times over. Most people don't and shouldn't side with Israel's occupation but it takes a certain kind of mentality to call for his desired level of destruction. Shouldn't have mocked his previous post but his extremely long rants veer in a very bad direction for the community he is putting it out to.
Ohran's quote was just gross. It made me feel dirty on the inside so I did my best to make light of it somehow.
Miles - As you might remember you were the one spouting off racist and misogynistic comments about a female architecture firm which I and many defended.
Read what you wrote again and while you are at it read what Tammuz wrote on this thread. The tell me if you think you were in the right
No worries Tammuz.
jwl: Tammuz is calling for a destruction of a nation and people.
this is an unsubstantiated assumption and claim betraying an inability to derive and measure. i call for the destruction of a colonial entity and system, not for the people. i believe Israel should cease to exist, as a system and a colony...but not its people. I believe in a one state solution with equal rights for everyone (a two state solution will not work, this was the opinion of the wise Edward Said) , irrespective of religion and its lack. I don't believe people who grew up in Israel should be banished. I believe that palestinians around the world should have the right to return to their homelands...with compensation. Not only that, I believe that we should also drop these ridiculous frontiers we have between our countries in the region that were drawn up by Britain and France. We have more reason to exist as a union of countries, cultures, traditions than do the europeans. we share lingua franca, we're a cross pollination of each other, etc etc.
But my idealism has no place when Israel is taking over Palestinian lands, when they get killed and incarcerated, exiled and oppressed. Under such conditions, I am all for PAlestinians to defend themselves. And I am all for obliterating that system that calls itself Israel. There's no beating around the bush; there is a war being waged against Palestinains and they have the right to counter-wage and defend. If they don't, they will be exterminated and displaced.
Wishing that there were peaceful resolutions is just that...wishing. Israel pretends to have peace talks...prolongs them, uses them to wage its displacement policy against Palestinians.
When your home is bulldozed, your family members incarcerated and killed for no reason, stripped of your land, displaced into camps, near starved, have your water turned off or polluted by an entity that rationally (ie methodically, ideologically) deploys a programme of oppression....come talk to me about how you're not justified in fighting back.
Yes, with self defense, there is collateral damage. There is no beating around the bush. But do you expect them to sit there,plea with the Zionists not to demolish their homes, exile them, kill them?
Let me ask you this: Do you think Jews in Germany would have been justified had they risen up against the Nazi regime? Do you think that, had there been collateral damage amongst the Germans, that that would have been rationally justified giving the overwhelming evil, inhumane treatement of the Jews at the hand of the Nazi Germans? Weren't regular Germans serving in the Nazi army? Were they not being brainwashed to hate the Jews? Given all this, again I ask, wouldnt the Jews have all the reason to bear arms against Nazi Germany?
Israel is a Zionist establishment. it is a Zionist Israel. It was founded on the basis of a racist program, it unfolds as a racist program and its plans are all concieved within this racist program. In that sense Israel plays the role of Nazi Germany. It can never be not racist - it is established as a racist colonial entity that, firstly, steals other lands and secondly wants to dissolve the indigeneous people within the region. It wants to establish itself as a Jewish state on stolen property. In the first sense, it is like South Africa outsiders coming in to steal and denigrate) and in the second sense, it is like Nazi Germany (wanting to exterminate a local resident population - the Jews in europe)
And you blame those poor Palestinians for fighting in the only way they can?
The single most powerful tool that Israel - and/through its allies-has is the power of misdirection and misrepresentation. You will not believe how manipulative the zionist lobbies in the states have spread their tentacles through US corporation to reach European media as well as, of course, US media and elsewhere in order to demonize the resistance factions in Palestine and Lebanon. You, as westerners who have been accustomed to watching your channels in your languages, should be highly critical of the material being represented to you, of the language being used to dig deep into your brain and form a way of perceiving things that misrepresents what is happening around, especially in the Middle East. But actually, also in elsewhere. It is unfortunate that mainstream western media is no longer independent, no longer honest, no longer reflective of democratic values. They're puppeteered by corporations that have active interest in the material, corrupting it to their end. they will play clever games...like admonishing Israel sometimes by representing some of their actions (believe me, typically, in a very filtered, mild ie dishonest way) ...but then calling Hamas "terrorists". This will give the audience a
So, even if you start yourself to call Israel "terrorist" because you just can't believe the media anymore, the media's incessant repetition of "terrorist Hamas" - along with fabricated interpretations and your bought-off politicians' speeches- leaves in you a residue of this prejudice against them, a proclivity to read them in a certain way that is just, to anyone who can watch arabic media, listen to them talk and act- is way off mark.
i will repeat, i have issues with Hamas - this does not mean that I support their general worldview. But this in no way leads to condemning them for their defense of their own people.
so let me get this right, none of you creatures have any problem with wall busting,
phosphor enhanced, uranium dusted, napalm grade and other high tech precision heavy
collateral damage smoke'em bombs and rockets israeli army uses to kill children, women
and other civilians.
burn them, char them to the bone, destroy their homes to the dust (300+ fatal casualties and growing in just in this last operation) you don't talk a word about them but find my words about kassam rockets which are statistically and fatally proven to be safer than riding a bicycle in manhattan, gross and disgusting?
hahahaha.. you little stupid fucking internet creatures you...
Orhan, such is the power of media.
I'll translate this from something Im incidentally reading, L'effroyyable Imposure 2 by Meyssan (sorry if the translation is shoddy and not exact ,if so). This section seems very pertinent Anyway, as below:
..........................................................................................
In order to orchestrate/manage the informational noise (my insertion: by that he means informational noise being created to misdirect and "intoxicate" the audience) , US specialists in psychological warfare speak of the rule of the 3D-2s:
The three D:
Delay : Block a disturbing news item just until it no longer is interesting (literally: loses interest)
Distract : Divert attention (in the pascalian sense, that is to say, divert it away from the essential, move away from the real) with secondary topics
Discredit: Denigrate the non-controlled dissident sources of information
The two S:
Spotlight: Concentrate the debate on a detail of little importance
Scapegoat: place the responsibility on a scape-goat
.................................
Now, can you relate this to how the spotlight is being directed at Hamas -who are basically reacting to Israel's aggression- directs attention away from the larger picture, directs attention away from who started, directs attention away from who is disproportionately the aggressor and who is disproportionately the victim...etc?
i can see that all the three D and two S rule is in force here. In fact, the DELAY item, here takes a very morbid twist according to the below, suitably titled Psychopathic Morality
...............................................................................................
A week ago I expressed my suspicions about the timing of the kidnapping and murder of the three Israelis teens. Since then, more details have come to light that confirm that the kidnapping was most likely a carefully orchestrated Israeli government propaganda campaign designed to destroy the Fatah/Hamas unity government, demomize the Palestinians as 'terrorists', and, as always, give the psychopaths in Tel Aviv another opportunity to blow Palestinian women and children to pieces.
...........................................................................................................
A few days ago the Israeli National News reported that the details of the phone call made by one of the boys on the night of the kidnapping would have led the Israeli government to suspect that the boys had been shot. The call, which took place at 10:25 p.m. on June 12, lasted for 2:09 minutes - most of which is comprised the police trying to resume contact after the caller was abruptly cut off.
An image you won't see in Israel: A father carries his severely wounded son after an Israeli missile hit the densely populated Gaza strip
In the audio recording, after one of the boys whispers "they've kidnapped me!" to the operator, the kidnappers can be heard shouting at the boys to get their heads down. Immediately thereafter shots are heard amid an apparent struggle and the boys can be heard crying out in pain. This was the moment when the teens were most likely shot dead in the back seat of the kidnappers' car. US investigators, involved because one of the boys was a US citizen, have said they were shot 10 times and that the weapons used to execute them were fitted with silencers.
The fact that blood, the boys' DNA and spent bullet casings were discovered in the burned-out car found shortly after the kidnapping tends to confirm this hypothesis. But rather than inform the boys' families and general public of these details, the Israeli government embarked on a propaganda campaign that was almost certainly planned many weeks in advance. A gag order on the press was quickly issued, preventing them from revealing the truth about the fate of the boys and the IDF proceeded on a two week-long 'search for the missing boys' as Israeli politicians and religious leaderswhipped Israeli public opinion into a racist frenzy with calls for revenge and some individuals on FB responding to the murder of a Palestinian teenager by the IDF suggesting that all 4 million Palestinians should be "herded into gas chambers and their bodies burned".
The mother of one of the teens who had listened to the call the day after the kidnapping was told by police that the shots were 'blanks' and that the boys were probably still alive and the Israeli government initiated a '#BringBackOurBoys' campaign on Twitter in an attempted comparison to the #BringBackOurGirls campaign for the 276 Nigerian girls abducted in Nigeria by Islamic militant group Boko Haram (whichappears to be a creation of Western powers, by the way).
The motivation for the lock-down on the truth about the fate of the boys was clear enough even to Israeli journalists. One week after the kidnapping, leading Israeli journalist Noam Sheizaf stated in a Facebook post that the gag order was to "preserve the local and international legitimacy" for a military policy aimed at Hamas - and, as such, the gag order was a form of "media manipulation". Sheizaf also cited aHaaretz article of June 20th by Amos Harel that hinted that the military knew the teens were dead because the IDF operation in the West Bank clearly had nothing to do with finding the boys and was even harming the search for them.
Not just in Israel: Protestors outside the Israeli consulate in NY.
What this means is that Netanyahu and his psycho cohorts callously used the kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teenagers to emotionally manipulate the Israeli population into calling for Palestinian blood (which they most assuredly did) and to justify the Israeli military bombardment of Gaza. Note that I don't state that 'preventing Hamas from firing rockets' was part of the motivation. It clearly wasn't. The only broad political agenda being served here was to demonize Fatah as a 'partner for peace' (because of its unity govt. attempts with Hamas) and gain local Israeli and international sympathy for Israel so that it can continue to occupy and steal more Palestinian land with impunity and murder any Palestinians who try to get in the way of the pathological 'Zionist dream'. It's interesting to note that, for years, Netanyahu claimed that there was no point in partnering with Fatah's Abbas because Abbas had no control over Hamas. But when Fatah and Hamas recently announced a unity government, Abbas was condemned by Netanyahu as getting into bed with a terrorist organisation. Indeed, it was the threat of that unity government and recent criticism of Netanyahu from the US government that appears to have produced the kidnapping of the teens and all that has resulted.
Callously using the death of children for political purposes is one thing (and par for the course in our psychopath-ruled society) but is it possible, as I have suggested previously, that the Israeli government was involved in some way in the kidnapping and murder itself?
This is all so sad. However this mess started, both people live there now and need to learn to live together. Unfortunatly, the Israelis seem intent on keeping themselves separated, or pure as some folks might put it. Also, they being the more powerful of the two sides, the onus is on them to be the more forgiving. Even with an eye for an eye, the math is way off. Maybe if more Palistinians emigrated to America, we'd be more even handed in the situation. Unfortunatly, many of the surrounding Arab states don't give one much hope that they would be better at handling their minorities.
Eitherway, the only solution is for one secular society with freedom of religion for all. Stories from the bible or anyone's holy book don't really help, unless one focuses on the line, love thy neighbor. I always think about the children on both sides and how they have to be taught to hate the other when on a playground they wouldn't know the difference. Ideologies suck.
Peace.
jla-x - "Jwl, orhan is a sick fuck if he really believes that. I hope he was drunk when writing that. That's absolutely horrible. Also sat in on a review he was on. He's a terrible crit. Sat there with a puss on his face without offering anything useful. Fake ass tough guys. Peace is the only thing worth it my friends. Love and peace homie. "
chip on your shoulder? i see... hatred of me runs deep in creature heads. so is the confusion about love and peace. were you the one with an awful project ruin my inspiration and depressed me for your lack of humanity and who had to repeat the semester? from the stupidity of your creature posts, probably you were.
refresh my memory.., what was your name..? how about if i call you creature from now on here until you say who you are "tough guy."
Orhan, no that was not me. I was not being reviewed just sat in to watch a review a few years back. I never had any problem with you until you referred to me as a creature for promoting peace and when you refered to devises designed to maim as good rockets. Its very cowardly to promote violence via the Internet. You are not a tough guy. As I said, firing rockets at civilians makes one an animal. Never did i once say that rebeling or resisting or defending ones land and family makes one an animal. I would too if I was in that situation but I would not redirect my anger upon innocent people. You may say they are not innocent but then you are wrong. They are no more guilty for the plight of the Palestinians than you are for the plight of the native Americans as you occupy their lost land known as LA and design building on their lost soil. They may be misguided and even brainwashed but they are not the enemy they are just people. The concept of an enemy is bullshit in the big picture of things. We are all brothers and sisters IMO. Criticize that all you want as unrealistic flower power but if everyone thought that way and lived that way then we would be In a better situation as a species.
An architect/creator promoting the use of a tool designed for destruction. That my friend is sad. One that review I witnessed the same bully like personality reflected in your vamp as you sat and offered nothing. Sitting in a position of power to promote positive change and to encourage the student but you instead choose to sit and snarl as you do now from your chair So nothing personal just a relevant observation. I never disrespected you. You called me a creature which is what we all are. At times I wish I was a better kind if creature like a falcon or an owl or a koala bear. It's unfortunate that calling someone a creature is actually a compliment being that humans are at times the vilest of all creatures as they are the only ones that build rockets and such.
And no orhan I have no hate for you at all personally I just hate what you said and how you acted during the brief time i saw you. I will give you benefit of the doubt and I'm sure you are a nice person most of the time but on this issue you are acting like a prick as you did on that review- mean spirited from a distance. I probably crossed the line for bringing it up but that comment got me vexed.
forget about me, regardless of your opinion i get invited as a critic there and there and there time after time and they sometimes even pay me for it too... i must be saying something valuable right?
now, repeat after me:
so let me get this right, none of you creatures have any problem with wall busting,
phosphor enhanced, uranium dusted, napalm grade and other high tech precision heavy
collateral damage smoke'em bombs and rockets israeli army uses to kill children, women
and other civilians.
burn them, char them to the bone, destroy their homes to the dust (300+ fatal casualties and growing in just in this last operation) you don't talk a word about them but find my words about kassam rockets which are statistically and fatally proven to be safer than riding a bicycle in manhattan, gross and disgusting?
hahahaha.. you little stupid fucking duplicitous (added) internet creatures you...
My instant spell check keeps switching orhan to organ. Lol. Ehhh damn iPhone. Possibly smart phone really is smart and knows you are an organ like the kind thats found below the waste. From now forth I will not even bother correcting it. Im not intentionally writing organ I just choose to not waste time correcting the iPhone since you call me creature. Actually creature is a kind of cool name anyway.
Repeat after me...I have a problem with all those weapons regardless of the direction they are pointed in. Re read what I wrote because your comprehension Is off. The only exception I would make for the promotion of a missile would be to blow up an approaching asteroid or to nudge it off course. I have problem with all weapons designed to kill more than one person at a time because they are careless creations and have no use as a means of self defense.
you are a hopeless case and a racist creature going after the spelling of a non-english name as a last resort... failed again!
hahahaha.. you little stupid fucking duplicitous (added) internet creatures you...
you started by resorting to immature comments like that above. fyi I have a non-english name too. Racist lol.... I am racist for not correcting the ethnocentric tendency of my i-phone but you are not for claiming an entire people as appropriate targets for missle fire and praising a tube designed to fly threw the air, explode, and tear people to shreds? Children and all... (my joke was insensitive at the most not racist at all.....while your phrase was filled with the evil hatred that drags humanity into the darkness time and time again. If you cant see whats wrong with that then you are disturbed. If you want to continue arguing and insulting and name calling then fine....its funny to me...if you want to really debate the ideas then that's better.
jla-x makes fun of name- racist
orhan says its ok to blow up jews- not racist
makes sense.
who said blow up jews lying creature?
to change the subject:
http://news.artnet.com/art-world/palestinian-artist-barred-from-attending-new-museum-show-61214
well imo these travel bans should be viewed as unlawful imprisonment. This is a clear violation of human rights and Israel should be sanctioned and prosecuted as is selectively done to others.
i agree! but how? they never respond to that kind of peaceful solutions. see their UN resolutions track record as a sampler.
we've been saying, jla-x, that your governments support Israel near unconditionally. This pertains first and foremost to the US but covers Britain, France and others as well. There is no real prohibition placed on Israel not to act the way it does towards Palestinians.
No one is advocating the death of anyone here. Not Orhan, not myself. But there really is no alternative to self defense here which is necessarily violent - not because I want it so, not because the Palestinians want it so. Israel does not want peace; it wants land and it wants Palestinians out. What are they supposed to do? Again, you have the luxury of being a divorced third party able to fall back on your ideals without being killed, near starved, jailed or deported. Not recognizing who is the victim and who is the aggressor is immoral.Not recognizing, that in the absence of any support for the victim to win back justice through any other means but self defense on ground that is necessarily violent (because the UN sure isnt helping, neither are the big powers who nearly always fall on the side of Israel).
Below, from Duplicitous Mideast Peace Talks
Peace isn't in Israel's or Washington's vocabulary. Talks with Palestinians date from the mid-1970s. Multiple rounds were dead on arrival. Hypocrisy defined them.
They're the most outrageous scam in modern diplomatic history. This time is no different. Washington is hardline. It negotiates one-way. Longstanding Israeli policy is unchanged.
It claims an unassailable right to settle anywhere in the land of the Bible. Peace talks are a useful fiction.
Current Defense Minister/former Strategic Affairs Minister Moshe Ya'alon said earlier they're used "to sear deep into the consciousness of Palestinians that they are a defeated people."
Past and current Israeli officials call occupation permanent. Former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir (1983 - 1984 and 1986 - 1992) once said he wanted to drag out peace talks for a decade while vastly expanding settlements.
From Oslo (1993) through today, settler population more than tripled. It went from around 200,000 to about 650,000.
Thayer is of course completely off the mark when he talks about this being an "eye for eye". Palestinians don't want revenge. They want to defend themselves. They're being deported, thrown in jail, having their lands stolen, incarcerated and killed. Where is the "eye for eye" here?
One of the things demonstrated here, by jla-x, Thayer and some others, is the unconscious inclination to assume negatively about Palestinians and to resort to cliches that are more applicable to how the western world views them than how they view themselves. For instance this "eye for an eye" accusation throw in by Thayer. Another is the implied request for the PAlestinians to civilly accept to be raped and live up to the kumbaya standards of jla-x, who lives in a country that has been stable for a long time, is not threatened, etc, etc (i will not go about how rotten the US really is, about its horrible past within whats know now as the US and horrible present within lands outside the US).
Had this been a western country, although jla-x might contest this and might actually believe the contrary, this would have been totally different. Jla-x doesn't know this but there are many undercurrents, many of which are indeed created by her or his media. I have already given above an analogy with the European Jews and German nazis and no one has bothered to address it.
Many people who belonged to Nazi Germany but not necessarily owing to belief or desire but, rather, circumstance, were "collateral damage". Does history condemn those who fought the Nazi regime? Now, imagine it were the European Jews who had risen to defend themselves against the Nazi regime...would we have condemned them for causing "collateral damage" on the way? Would we have wanted them to try to be nicer to the Germans to see if maybe Hitler might have changed his mind about exterminating them in gas chambers?
Yes, there were many innocent Germans who were killed in the war, and its only fair to recognize them, but no one says that Hitler's racist regime should not have been eradicated to avoid the demise of innocents. Your abstract morality doesn't work here either jla-x. Your morality cannot restraint a psychopathic regime from committing atrocities; but your morality can well be used against the victim, cynically, for resorting to necessarily violent acts of self defense. In the way, people start saying: fuck them both, they're both brutes. That is a horrible relinquishing of the ability to discern what is an act of violation and what is an act of defense.
To add:
this is why, jla-x, inspite of your good intentions, your moronic logic really targets the victim...not the psychopath. As long as the psychopath has his entourage of great power supporting her or him, she's fine and would care less about being called out. Whereas your injudicious accusations in regards to the victim not only aid in further victimization but, i suggest, they were fabricated precisely in order to obfuscate your moral discrimination. This new agey mock-buddhist nonsense has been used to divert attention away from the real issues.
This isn't about, as you naively state, some good guys and bad guys on either side of the divide. Israel is not run by some good and some bad. Israel is run by a consistent, historically continuous policy of disenfranchisement, racism, oppression and displacement of the Palestinians. No matter what government it has had, this policy of it has been defining its existence. It has nothing to do with some bad guys in power.
jla-x, i told you from the beginning that you were detached...you don't really need to tell me whats obvious - i mean, sometimes you really don;t add much (you have yet to address my analogies) except for bullshit . Yes, i have already remarked that you have the physical luxury and the mental laxity of being detached or as you call it "zoomed out".
Humanity has created the notion of justice that differentiated and discriminates for a reason. I don't support the Palestinians' right to defend themselves because of religion or identity or ...but because they have been victims of a history of virulent oppression going back to the earlier part of the last century and persisting to this day.
If its not about morality, then don't moralize at all and cease having an opinion about what is right or good and what is wrong or bad...because when you start basing your judgements on what should be done on the basis of "i love all people", you are moralizing.
Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") is the differentiation of intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are "good" (or right) and those that are "bad" (or wrong).[citation needed] (wiki)
Yes, your so-called perspective is (im)morally conditioned and (im)morally conditioning.
Israel Supporter, you are proud of Israel and it shows. I hope that in the future you can demonstrate an equal enthusiasm for discussing design and architecture. Look forward to hearing your thoughts on the many other discussions currently happening on Archinect.
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