I'm sure this is an old topic, but has anybody recently gotten an entry level job without networking? If so, you would be an awesome person to share how you got it. Were you humble or cocky on your cover letter? Did you call the firm, write by mail, typical email? Small, mid, or large sized firms?
I graduated in May with my B.Arch from a good school and was accepted into Harvard, Columbia etc. when I applied for M.arch in december. Decided to get some professional experience first, but this 0 years experience on my resume/not really knowing anybody makes it difficult. Most of the kids that have jobs from my class got it through their family's connections. A good number of us are still looking.
I've learned that sending your resume by email is basically a huge waste of time. My mom told me to just show up places, which I think I might do next week.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Hopeless longshot...but if your firm is hiring a cad monkey in NYC or DC, message me!
Wow, why didn't you go to March? School is the best place to weather this recession.
With that said, I've recently gotten a job offer. ( I have 2 years of experience, so, pretty close to entry level.)
Not through networking. though the employer saw my college prof's name on my portfolio and checked up on me there
emailed, emailed follow up inquiry (after one week), got rejected based on a lack of experience (after another week), emailed right back stating (politely) that they would really need to meet me to determine my actual experience level (instead of just scam "2 yrs" from my portfolio), got a call for interview (a month later), interviewed and got the offer (2 days later).
So, employers don't really have their act together (all busy trying to get work and overwork with a lack of staff). Be patient and try everything. Never give up (even upon rejection, as in my case, it paid off).
So, employers don't really have their act together (all busy trying to get work and overwork with a lack of staff). Be patient and try everything. Never give up (even upon rejection, as in my case, it paid off).
This is probably really good advice.
Everyone likes to think they are the best at what they do. Not necessarily really the case more often than not-- however, it requires someone to admit maybe that they aren't really that good in order to learn to become better.
You can't necessarily fix a problem unless you admit there is a problem.
That being said.
Getting a job is mostly luck.
In architecture (and related fields), luck is constrained by limiting factors.
Some are legal. Some are stylistic. Some are based solely within time.
That being said-- you can manipulate luck or the perception of luck sometimes. But the life and death of a resume various so widely, there really isn't very much advice outside of formatting.
But essentially, the day, the order in which it was received, the cover letter play important roles.
Resumes received immediately after posting tend to get ignored but resumes sent to late maybe discarded.
Resumes received on a Monday morning or a Friday afternoon may not be looked at with any seriousness or the full intention of the person reviewing resumes.
"Getting a job is mostly luck." - - I totally agree with this. I've met someone who found a job years ago with a firm w/ very little or even zero CAD experience, to date, he's still with that firm even after 2 cycles of lay offs.
"Resumes received immediately after posting tend to get ignored but resumes sent to late maybe discarded. Resumes received on a Monday morning or a Friday afternoon may not be looked at with any seriousness or the full intention of the person reviewing resumes." - - Wow, I'm eager beaver when I see postings. I recently saw a posting for a job I REALLY want and am 99% sure I am qualified apart from that language (Mandarin) requirement. Tried by "luck" anyway.
I recently fixed my resume and am hoping I get more responses for it.
I really have 6 years of experience behind me, but since I don't have local experience, I feel I have to go for mostly entry level jobs....
Ahk, the perils of job hunting. It's so frustrating.
A bit off topic...I'm thinking of taking a short course at UC-Berkeley Extension...I'm choosing between Project Management or Facilities Management. What do you think would be the "better" choice???
I technically have 7 years of 'professional' experience-- 0 years in architecture. Of those, 4 years of management level graphic design (print) experience. Additionally, I have 3 years of bookkeeping/office manager/financial management experience.
I still apply to entry-level (0-2 year(s)) jobs for the most part.
Let's breakdown some points-- for instance, off Archinect's job board:
Senior Creative Director - Retail Design and Branding
Does this firm want an actual architect (assuming so, since of the venue -archinect)?
Or is this firm looking for a general designer? Interior designer? Package designer? Print designer? All of these positions often have significant roles in branding, image and marketing.
* Must have 10+ years of retail design experience with at least 5 years in a leadership role
Uh, unless someone is on hard times or is unlicensed... I'm not sure you're going to find very many directors/principals with this level of experience who aren't owners or partners.
* Experience must include hands-on management of an architectural firm, regional office, practice group or profit center
See point above.
* Must be creative leader and also manage creative team members – not a prima donna
I've never met anyone in charge in the creative business who wasn't a prima donna. And creative leader? Do they want an Augusto Pinochet who can oil paint?
Not to lay on some shtick here... But what kind of leadership do you want here? Do you want someone who has managed a design office or do you want someone who is inventive in their management practices?
* Proven track record of success in working with retail clients, including developing new client relationships
So... let me get this straight. How do you prove a track record in the creative business?
Do you want me to go around to every single client and get a certified letter stating that they were happy with my work? Isn't payment proof enough?
Not only do you want me to prove that I am good, you also want me to bring in new business? If I was already bringing in new business, had the experience and knew how to do what I was working on... why wouldn't I start my own business?
* Excellent leadership, management, and mentoring skills
This would be the easier point to review as any manager should be able to explain a qualitative/quantitative employee evaluation methodology and synthesize it into a company employment analysis detailing expectations, results and the performance of the path from expectation to result.
* Ability to develop collaborative relationships across the firm, with clients, and with other key constituents
I learned teamwork in the third grade.
* Strong, persuasive communicator with ability to present to all levels
So, I have to sell the product I'm already bringing to the firm. I thought this was a given since a previous term of employment required me to bring clients with me to this firm?
Seems like if I could already do this, I'd be successfully running my own firm, no?
* Flexibility to travel throughout the U.S. and abroad as required
So, no class one felonies, obvious handicaps or revoked passports? Got it.
* Bachelor’s degree in Architecture or Interior Design
Finally. But they don't teach branding, marketing or business strategies in either. In fact, art school is often pretty devoid of the creative processes necessary to cheap Nike flagship stores.
* LEED accreditation preferred
Wait... all those Hello Kitty stores and all that merchandise I designed was suppose to be LEED Platnium? Damn, I must have missed that!
Make sure your portfolio, cover letter, resume are the best. If there is no one to grandfather you into an entry level position, you'll want to be certain that in the small chance the person doing the hiring is going to go dig into the huge pile of unsolicited portfolios he/she has under their desk to find an intern, yours is the one that will stick out in the crowd. If this is somewhere you really want to work you should put in the effort to make a personalized cover letter. Keep on following up on your application; be persistent but not obnoxious, be polite even if some people are not. If you land an interview, prepare some intelligent questions to engage your interviewer, don't just sit there like a lump (it took me a few turns to get this right). Follow up with a thank you note. And continue to follow up.
Also have you considered mailing your short portfolio? It can get expensive but it may be worth it to make a lightweight printed version of your short portfolio to mail to the few places you would love to work at. I think it is harder to ignore a physical portfolio sitting in your hands than a .pdf file in your inbox.
These are the things that have worked for me. It is true that luck plays a huge factor in getting a job these days. You should try to network as much as you can with professors, your college career office, alumni, friends, etc. but you shouldn't be discouraged from inquiring at offices where you don't have a connection. Good luck.
"#3 - do not just 'show up places' - no one has time for you"
I completely disagree with this!
I called/emailed close to 100 firms in Georgia when I got laid off... They just gave some generic answer and that was that.
I ended up making a pamphlet type portfolio. One that employer's could flip through in about ten seconds and see impressive images.
Finally I just marched from firm to firm (unannounced) and after about three days of this I landed a job.
Face time is crucial.
I definitely recommend just showing up at places... It is a recession, a lot of architects have time for you. Even the architects who could not hired me appreciated me coming by, and I got some great advice. I was also able to tour some really cool studios.
School starts in about a month... Some interns will be leaving to attend grad school... Try to find out who these people are, and move in on their jobs.
An interesting tactic would be to get the list of students attending each grad school, track down where they worked if they were employed, and market the hell out of those firms.
That might be breaking some laws though, not sure...
I recently applied for an entry level job. I have 4+ years of experience, a graduate degree, finished IDP and a diverse background. I managed to make the first cut, which was about 5 applicants... out of pool of over 500 resumes that were received in about 3 days. Which is all to say that it's pretty unlikely you will find anything without having some connection into an office.
Sorry dude but it's just going to happen this year, or probably next year either.
Jul 15, 10 9:22 pm ·
·
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.
advice on getting an entry level job?
I'm sure this is an old topic, but has anybody recently gotten an entry level job without networking? If so, you would be an awesome person to share how you got it. Were you humble or cocky on your cover letter? Did you call the firm, write by mail, typical email? Small, mid, or large sized firms?
I graduated in May with my B.Arch from a good school and was accepted into Harvard, Columbia etc. when I applied for M.arch in december. Decided to get some professional experience first, but this 0 years experience on my resume/not really knowing anybody makes it difficult. Most of the kids that have jobs from my class got it through their family's connections. A good number of us are still looking.
I've learned that sending your resume by email is basically a huge waste of time. My mom told me to just show up places, which I think I might do next week.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Hopeless longshot...but if your firm is hiring a cad monkey in NYC or DC, message me!
there are, indeed, a ton of posts on the topic. to summarize:
#1 - do your homework.
#2 - network like hell.
#3 - do not just 'show up places' - no one has time for you.
#4 - rinse, lather, repeat.
at the moment, it seems like you've bypassed #1, don't want to put the effort into #2, and want to try #3 although general consensus says not to.
good luck!
if it's too late to go to school, then you may be an excellent candidate for this
Wow, why didn't you go to March? School is the best place to weather this recession.
With that said, I've recently gotten a job offer. ( I have 2 years of experience, so, pretty close to entry level.)
Not through networking. though the employer saw my college prof's name on my portfolio and checked up on me there
emailed, emailed follow up inquiry (after one week), got rejected based on a lack of experience (after another week), emailed right back stating (politely) that they would really need to meet me to determine my actual experience level (instead of just scam "2 yrs" from my portfolio), got a call for interview (a month later), interviewed and got the offer (2 days later).
So, employers don't really have their act together (all busy trying to get work and overwork with a lack of staff). Be patient and try everything. Never give up (even upon rejection, as in my case, it paid off).
This is probably really good advice.
Everyone likes to think they are the best at what they do. Not necessarily really the case more often than not-- however, it requires someone to admit maybe that they aren't really that good in order to learn to become better.
You can't necessarily fix a problem unless you admit there is a problem.
That being said.
Getting a job is mostly luck.
In architecture (and related fields), luck is constrained by limiting factors.
Some are legal. Some are stylistic. Some are based solely within time.
That being said-- you can manipulate luck or the perception of luck sometimes. But the life and death of a resume various so widely, there really isn't very much advice outside of formatting.
But essentially, the day, the order in which it was received, the cover letter play important roles.
Resumes received immediately after posting tend to get ignored but resumes sent to late maybe discarded.
Resumes received on a Monday morning or a Friday afternoon may not be looked at with any seriousness or the full intention of the person reviewing resumes.
"Getting a job is mostly luck." - - I totally agree with this. I've met someone who found a job years ago with a firm w/ very little or even zero CAD experience, to date, he's still with that firm even after 2 cycles of lay offs.
"Resumes received immediately after posting tend to get ignored but resumes sent to late maybe discarded. Resumes received on a Monday morning or a Friday afternoon may not be looked at with any seriousness or the full intention of the person reviewing resumes." - - Wow, I'm eager beaver when I see postings. I recently saw a posting for a job I REALLY want and am 99% sure I am qualified apart from that language (Mandarin) requirement. Tried by "luck" anyway.
I recently fixed my resume and am hoping I get more responses for it.
I really have 6 years of experience behind me, but since I don't have local experience, I feel I have to go for mostly entry level jobs....
Ahk, the perils of job hunting. It's so frustrating.
A bit off topic...I'm thinking of taking a short course at UC-Berkeley Extension...I'm choosing between Project Management or Facilities Management. What do you think would be the "better" choice???
project management is probably more applicable to architecture...
I technically have 7 years of 'professional' experience-- 0 years in architecture. Of those, 4 years of management level graphic design (print) experience. Additionally, I have 3 years of bookkeeping/office manager/financial management experience.
I still apply to entry-level (0-2 year(s)) jobs for the most part.
Let's breakdown some points-- for instance, off Archinect's job board:
Senior Creative Director - Retail Design and Branding
Does this firm want an actual architect (assuming so, since of the venue -archinect)?
Or is this firm looking for a general designer? Interior designer? Package designer? Print designer? All of these positions often have significant roles in branding, image and marketing.
* Must have 10+ years of retail design experience with at least 5 years in a leadership role
Uh, unless someone is on hard times or is unlicensed... I'm not sure you're going to find very many directors/principals with this level of experience who aren't owners or partners.
* Experience must include hands-on management of an architectural firm, regional office, practice group or profit center
See point above.
* Must be creative leader and also manage creative team members – not a prima donna
I've never met anyone in charge in the creative business who wasn't a prima donna. And creative leader? Do they want an Augusto Pinochet who can oil paint?
Not to lay on some shtick here... But what kind of leadership do you want here? Do you want someone who has managed a design office or do you want someone who is inventive in their management practices?
* Proven track record of success in working with retail clients, including developing new client relationships
So... let me get this straight. How do you prove a track record in the creative business?
Do you want me to go around to every single client and get a certified letter stating that they were happy with my work? Isn't payment proof enough?
Not only do you want me to prove that I am good, you also want me to bring in new business? If I was already bringing in new business, had the experience and knew how to do what I was working on... why wouldn't I start my own business?
* Excellent leadership, management, and mentoring skills
This would be the easier point to review as any manager should be able to explain a qualitative/quantitative employee evaluation methodology and synthesize it into a company employment analysis detailing expectations, results and the performance of the path from expectation to result.
* Ability to develop collaborative relationships across the firm, with clients, and with other key constituents
I learned teamwork in the third grade.
* Strong, persuasive communicator with ability to present to all levels
So, I have to sell the product I'm already bringing to the firm. I thought this was a given since a previous term of employment required me to bring clients with me to this firm?
Seems like if I could already do this, I'd be successfully running my own firm, no?
* Flexibility to travel throughout the U.S. and abroad as required
So, no class one felonies, obvious handicaps or revoked passports? Got it.
* Bachelor’s degree in Architecture or Interior Design
Finally. But they don't teach branding, marketing or business strategies in either. In fact, art school is often pretty devoid of the creative processes necessary to cheap Nike flagship stores.
* LEED accreditation preferred
Wait... all those Hello Kitty stores and all that merchandise I designed was suppose to be LEED Platnium? Damn, I must have missed that!
Make sure your portfolio, cover letter, resume are the best. If there is no one to grandfather you into an entry level position, you'll want to be certain that in the small chance the person doing the hiring is going to go dig into the huge pile of unsolicited portfolios he/she has under their desk to find an intern, yours is the one that will stick out in the crowd. If this is somewhere you really want to work you should put in the effort to make a personalized cover letter. Keep on following up on your application; be persistent but not obnoxious, be polite even if some people are not. If you land an interview, prepare some intelligent questions to engage your interviewer, don't just sit there like a lump (it took me a few turns to get this right). Follow up with a thank you note. And continue to follow up.
Also have you considered mailing your short portfolio? It can get expensive but it may be worth it to make a lightweight printed version of your short portfolio to mail to the few places you would love to work at. I think it is harder to ignore a physical portfolio sitting in your hands than a .pdf file in your inbox.
These are the things that have worked for me. It is true that luck plays a huge factor in getting a job these days. You should try to network as much as you can with professors, your college career office, alumni, friends, etc. but you shouldn't be discouraged from inquiring at offices where you don't have a connection. Good luck.
Enrolled for a Project Management course. Hopefully, I can also network here.
"#3 - do not just 'show up places' - no one has time for you"
I completely disagree with this!
I called/emailed close to 100 firms in Georgia when I got laid off... They just gave some generic answer and that was that.
I ended up making a pamphlet type portfolio. One that employer's could flip through in about ten seconds and see impressive images.
Finally I just marched from firm to firm (unannounced) and after about three days of this I landed a job.
Face time is crucial.
I definitely recommend just showing up at places... It is a recession, a lot of architects have time for you. Even the architects who could not hired me appreciated me coming by, and I got some great advice. I was also able to tour some really cool studios.
Another tip...
School starts in about a month... Some interns will be leaving to attend grad school... Try to find out who these people are, and move in on their jobs.
An interesting tactic would be to get the list of students attending each grad school, track down where they worked if they were employed, and market the hell out of those firms.
That might be breaking some laws though, not sure...
I recently applied for an entry level job. I have 4+ years of experience, a graduate degree, finished IDP and a diverse background. I managed to make the first cut, which was about 5 applicants... out of pool of over 500 resumes that were received in about 3 days. Which is all to say that it's pretty unlikely you will find anything without having some connection into an office.
Sorry dude but it's just going to happen this year, or probably next year either.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.