ok, ok, dot, forget the gd goalbox, I already clarified it in my last post and admitted that the passing players were not necessarily in the goal box, but the were pretty friggin close, that's why I modified it to setting up a sort of "blue box" similar to hockey.
Ok, enough of the rule writing and nitpicking. To me it's a philosophical take on the issue: you know the beautiful game when you see it played, in crisp passes and beautiful crosses and wonderful shots on goal and clean tackles...but how exactly does the offside rule, in general, help make soccer the beautiful game? A lot of people here seem to be arguing that it does, but to me, a blanket rule that favors the defense does not make the game more beautiful. And if modifications to the offside rules would open up the game more and add a few more goals, that's bad exactly why? In hockey they realized they could not have "cherry pickers" up rink waiting for long passes to score, but they also realized that when the action gets tight and close, a blanket offside rule would overly favor the defense and stifle action, so they came up with the compromise of the blue line, which gives the game the right balance: I don't think FIFA has yet found the same balance in their game. And that's enough on the offside rule from me.
PS. lletdownl, re: your suggestion of a chip in the ball: that's the kind of "let's change the game in a good way" thinking that I love.
i have no issues w/ some sort of technological advancement wrt offsides - they have this in tennis, surely a ball 30 times larger would be easier to figure out.
US can beat ghana and south korea. i seriously doubt they can make it past uruguay, but i'd love to see that happen. that would pretty much pit them against brazil or NL.
it is a different stage now. any team can knock out the other. it is all about focus, preparation, field factors etc.. did i say luck?
there will be some surprises..
and the curse of the vuvuzela and the bloody jabulani ball by adidas (which the Japanese have obviously turned into an advantage as seen in the gyroscopic swaying free kicks made in their match in defeat of Denmark)
Emilio...I apologize...I think I understand your rule change better now.
If a player is legally ( all current offside rules in play) is in possession of the ball in a certain zone (say 8'...but this is negotiable) ..then whatever happens at that point..the cross..the shot ..etc. All offside rules as we know them are null.
Not bad. Basically (since we both play hockey.) is you are putting a 'blue line' at some distance from the goal ... 8' 10' 15'..etc.
This may be worth thinking more about...I misunderstood your first description of your idea.
And...the USA can beat Ghana IMO (who can only score from PK this WC).
We will see.. I am super excited. If they win..they play the winner of Uruguay and South Korea for a ticket to the semi's...sure beats Germany from '02...but then again..one handball away from beating them IMO.
No need to apologize, psheldahl, I was getting frustrated in my posts exactly because I knew I wasn't being totally clear...mostly because it was an idea that I had mused on but had never really looked at how it would actually work. I just mostly like talking about soccer/football with other fanatics for its own sake, and don't really expect that FIFA is monitoring Archinect and taking notes.......
Yes, fence, Bradley is right on with his comments on flopping. I was so glad to see Portugal's Tiago get a yellow card for flopping in the penalty area when he wasn't even touched.
I think the US can advance the farthest it has ever gotten but I dare not type a word that starts with "s" or maybe even one that starts with "f" for fear of jinxing the whole thing. But no team this year - except maybe Argentina - is so tough that the scrappy USA team can't beat them.
i like to make fun of england as much as the next guy, but this is soccer at the highest level, and you miss an obvious goal like that? it's turning this world cup into a joke. sad.
from los angeles... television sets are quite.. just occasional police sirens now. two unlucky goals in the first half and argentina is thorough. next saturday, an early world cup final: germany vs. argentina.
Yea, so much for scrappyness...was being way too optimistic about USA's chances....but when you consistently give up early goals, and blow almost every great scoring opportunity you get, you won't ever advance far in the WC.
Well, once again, the ass. referees (abbreviation intentional) showed their mettle in this World Cup: two more gloriously blown calls. One, a goal not given to England that was a half meter inside the goal mouth...good eyes there, fella. The other, a goal that shouldn't have been for Argentina due to a full meter offside ...real good eyes there, dude (even though, under the rule changes I argued for earlier, that goal would be fine, under the present rules that linesman is friggin' blind).
So, lletdownl, instead of putting technology just in the ball, I suggest linesmen robots equipped with laser sighting, freeze photography capability, and 360 degree vision, assisted by aerial cameras, that could make definitive correct calls in an instant.
Barring that, really good bird-dogs that could lift a front leg and point their tail when there's an offside or the ball passes the goal mouth and is a score...
Must say, FIFA is looking a fool in this World Cup. Bad Refs, as well as some interesting choices in ball, etc.
However that said, I think the games between Argentina and Germany and Brazil-Netherlands are gonig to be interesting. S. America is killing it down there in South Africa.
emilio
i don't think you were overly optimistic about the US' chances...although they probably would've fell to Uruguay... i thought they were going to lose as soon as i saw the starting lineup. when is the US going to hire a coach that doesn't make a huge mistake in the world cup? you start clark and findley against england and don't realize that's a mistake? what did findley do to deserve to play three of four games? the man doesn't even start for real salt lake...
he hadn't even been capped until just recently...
why do buddle and gomez have to ride the bench so this man can play? all they've done is lead their respective leagues in scoring... and they've both scored in international play recently as well...
and clark? what did edu do to deserve not starting? all he does is possess the ball well and pass decently...and why bring holden if you're not going to play him?
and then you compound or admit your mistake by making two subs before the second half starts...and with all that they still lost in extra time...a decent showing for the US but is very disappointing because they will not get a chance like this in another 40 years.
oh well. all in all we really missed charlie davies.
at least we're seeing some great games and great teams.
wow, portugal really sucked it up... maybe they should have saved some offense from the NK blowout. villa owned them, and is shaping up to be the best offensive player of the WM yet.
lars, your analysis of player choice by Bradley sounds on the mark to me...and it's true, this was a golden opportunity for the US to advance to maybe the quarters because the opposition was beatable. I can't help thinking, though, that no matter the player choices, if some of those easy goal opportunities were completed (and some makeable saves were made by Howard) then the US would still be playing. They showed amazing mettle at the end against Slovenia but basically surrendered against Ghana, stopped attacking at the end...maybe they were just out of energy.
This thread seems to be running of energy...must be the less than inspiring World Cup play so far...but there's two games coming up that could both be finals: Argentina - Germany and Netherlands - Brazil...and Spain - Paraguay should have some sparks too. I'm betting on an all South-American final.
I suppose fewer games means less entries.
Too bad for the US. You are definitely right, Emilio...GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY on that side of the bracket.
From my (argentina´s) perspective, Im gritting my teeth and hoping for the best. while at the same time wondering how Brazil..THE team, ends up with a cake walk to the final before real opposition. (i dont expect sparks against paraguay. Paraguay is not that good IMO)
but to beat, mexico, germany, spain...and THEN be in the final...against Brazil is an uphill battle. Im not making any excuses but you have to believe if a team from the tough side of the bracket wins it all, they more than deserve it.
@awkeytect: "From my (argentina´s) perspective, Im gritting my teeth and hoping for the best. while at the same time wondering how Brazil..THE team, ends up with a cake walk to the final before real opposition."
I'm feeling a slight bit insulted in my national pride - you are suggesting that the Netherlands'll be a walk-over for Brazil, which I'm sure will not be the case. If the dutch national coach is willing to take some risks, and put fast attackers against Maicon and Bastos, and players who like to walk against the static defending midfielders of Brazil. In short: it won't be as easy as you suggest. Just as Mexico wasn't that big of an opposition for Argentina...
you shouldnt feel insulted...the opposite should be the case...
I have more respect for brazil than that...I know how good they can be. THe problem in watching them is that they play at the level of their opponents so they just look mediocre..or just good enough to win.
but ok...the netherlands is good ...so thats 1 team.
Mexico always plays well against argentina... rememeber last world cup?
add germany, spain, to that..and that might be a tougher path than netherlands and uruguay?
anyone? does this not make sense, am I terrible misguided?
you are right. Brazil got lucky that Italy and France failed in the group stage. Imagine playing Chile-Netherlands-Italy (a good shaped Italy), it'd be pretty much equal to playing Mexico-Germany-Spain, I'd reckon. If Argentina would've come second in their group, they'd be playing Uruguay - Ghana - Netherlands, about the same strength opponents Brazil has, now.
So all in all: a case of bad luck that all the surprises where on the other half of the schedule...
Yes, absolutely the best match so far...edge of your seat good.
It was two different games from the first half to the second; Brazil played brilliantly in the 1st then basically imploded in the 2nd, making defensive errors and stupid penalties...and almost still tied it with 10 on the field. I knew the Dutch were not done at halftime, thought it would be tied and go to penalties. Amazing performances by Robben, Sneijder, and Stekelenburg (he made the save of the game on Kaka).
Netherlands - Argentina final? (although I wouldn't count Spain out).
what's up w/ espn announcers, tho? do they not realize uruguay and paraguay are south american teams?
also, someone please b*tchslap lalas... argentina's 'sandlot play' destroys the non-existent u.s. system anyday. i really don't understand why this idiot is their go-to analysis guy...
bummer.
Defense always wins championships... its too bad- Offense is just too much fun to watch and Argentina cant give it up. It was fun while it lasted...
2010 world cup
ok, ok, dot, forget the gd goalbox, I already clarified it in my last post and admitted that the passing players were not necessarily in the goal box, but the were pretty friggin close, that's why I modified it to setting up a sort of "blue box" similar to hockey.
Ok, enough of the rule writing and nitpicking. To me it's a philosophical take on the issue: you know the beautiful game when you see it played, in crisp passes and beautiful crosses and wonderful shots on goal and clean tackles...but how exactly does the offside rule, in general, help make soccer the beautiful game? A lot of people here seem to be arguing that it does, but to me, a blanket rule that favors the defense does not make the game more beautiful. And if modifications to the offside rules would open up the game more and add a few more goals, that's bad exactly why? In hockey they realized they could not have "cherry pickers" up rink waiting for long passes to score, but they also realized that when the action gets tight and close, a blanket offside rule would overly favor the defense and stifle action, so they came up with the compromise of the blue line, which gives the game the right balance: I don't think FIFA has yet found the same balance in their game. And that's enough on the offside rule from me.
PS. lletdownl, re: your suggestion of a chip in the ball: that's the kind of "let's change the game in a good way" thinking that I love.
the question I really want to ask now is:
how far will the USA advance?
i have no issues w/ some sort of technological advancement wrt offsides - they have this in tennis, surely a ball 30 times larger would be easier to figure out.
US can beat ghana and south korea. i seriously doubt they can make it past uruguay, but i'd love to see that happen. that would pretty much pit them against brazil or NL.
it is a different stage now. any team can knock out the other. it is all about focus, preparation, field factors etc.. did i say luck?
there will be some surprises..
and the curse of the vuvuzela and the bloody jabulani ball by adidas (which the Japanese have obviously turned into an advantage as seen in the gyroscopic swaying free kicks made in their match in defeat of Denmark)
I'm going to go play hookie...and watch the Brazil Portugal game! Hoping for the Best! That is the Best for Brazil!
If you call you will get the answering machine for the next 90 + minutes.
Emilio...I apologize...I think I understand your rule change better now.
If a player is legally ( all current offside rules in play) is in possession of the ball in a certain zone (say 8'...but this is negotiable) ..then whatever happens at that point..the cross..the shot ..etc. All offside rules as we know them are null.
Not bad. Basically (since we both play hockey.) is you are putting a 'blue line' at some distance from the goal ... 8' 10' 15'..etc.
This may be worth thinking more about...I misunderstood your first description of your idea.
And...the USA can beat Ghana IMO (who can only score from PK this WC).
We will see.. I am super excited. If they win..they play the winner of Uruguay and South Korea for a ticket to the semi's...sure beats Germany from '02...but then again..one handball away from beating them IMO.
No need to apologize, psheldahl, I was getting frustrated in my posts exactly because I knew I wasn't being totally clear...mostly because it was an idea that I had mused on but had never really looked at how it would actually work. I just mostly like talking about soccer/football with other fanatics for its own sake, and don't really expect that FIFA is monitoring Archinect and taking notes.......
Yes, fence, Bradley is right on with his comments on flopping. I was so glad to see Portugal's Tiago get a yellow card for flopping in the penalty area when he wasn't even touched.
I think the US can advance the farthest it has ever gotten but I dare not type a word that starts with "s" or maybe even one that starts with "f" for fear of jinxing the whole thing. But no team this year - except maybe Argentina - is so tough that the scrappy USA team can't beat them.
Damn, they made it... now it's... Go Portugal!
(first -and probably last- time that i'll be a Cristiano Ronaldo supporter)
scrappy usa loses to ghana 2-1
damn those ghanareans !!
sloppy. US really needs to work on defense. they were manhandled today.
Strange did happen in that game.....two goalies in the same box!
another bad call on a legitimate goal (or rather, non-call) but baby james should have changed his diaper - letting in 4 goals? really?!?terrible...
auf geht's DE!!
i like to make fun of england as much as the next guy, but this is soccer at the highest level, and you miss an obvious goal like that? it's turning this world cup into a joke. sad.
awful about the missed goal. Its terrible.
Germany was the better side, however for England to put in two goals in 1 minute and tie the game would have changed EVERYTHING.
Doubt they would have pushed forward as much and as a result wouldnt have been finished off on counter attacks.
But ditto to holz... James was terrible.
all quite in los angeles except sounds of broadcast from television sets in the neighborhood where my office is. this is a mexican city.
definitely time for instant replay or the 'hockey siren' - this is getting pathetic. the linesman looked kinda scared...
also, no card for chucking heinze off the pitch?
anyone know what the fight was about? maradona gonna have to bust heads?
golazo!!!!!!!!! phenomenal strike by tevez...
from los angeles... television sets are quite.. just occasional police sirens now. two unlucky goals in the first half and argentina is thorough. next saturday, an early world cup final: germany vs. argentina.
My guess: Brazil vs. Argentina will be this year's final.
My wish: Argentina will crush Spain 47-0 in the semis with 46 goals by Messi and 1 by Palermo.
Yea, so much for scrappyness...was being way too optimistic about USA's chances....but when you consistently give up early goals, and blow almost every great scoring opportunity you get, you won't ever advance far in the WC.
Well, once again, the ass. referees (abbreviation intentional) showed their mettle in this World Cup: two more gloriously blown calls. One, a goal not given to England that was a half meter inside the goal mouth...good eyes there, fella. The other, a goal that shouldn't have been for Argentina due to a full meter offside ...real good eyes there, dude (even though, under the rule changes I argued for earlier, that goal would be fine, under the present rules that linesman is friggin' blind).
So, lletdownl, instead of putting technology just in the ball, I suggest linesmen robots equipped with laser sighting, freeze photography capability, and 360 degree vision, assisted by aerial cameras, that could make definitive correct calls in an instant.
Barring that, really good bird-dogs that could lift a front leg and point their tail when there's an offside or the ball passes the goal mouth and is a score...
Sweet Brazil!
Must say, FIFA is looking a fool in this World Cup. Bad Refs, as well as some interesting choices in ball, etc.
However that said, I think the games between Argentina and Germany and Brazil-Netherlands are gonig to be interesting. S. America is killing it down there in South Africa.
emilio
i don't think you were overly optimistic about the US' chances...although they probably would've fell to Uruguay... i thought they were going to lose as soon as i saw the starting lineup. when is the US going to hire a coach that doesn't make a huge mistake in the world cup? you start clark and findley against england and don't realize that's a mistake? what did findley do to deserve to play three of four games? the man doesn't even start for real salt lake...
he hadn't even been capped until just recently...
why do buddle and gomez have to ride the bench so this man can play? all they've done is lead their respective leagues in scoring... and they've both scored in international play recently as well...
and clark? what did edu do to deserve not starting? all he does is possess the ball well and pass decently...and why bring holden if you're not going to play him?
and then you compound or admit your mistake by making two subs before the second half starts...and with all that they still lost in extra time...a decent showing for the US but is very disappointing because they will not get a chance like this in another 40 years.
oh well. all in all we really missed charlie davies.
at least we're seeing some great games and great teams.
wow, portugal really sucked it up... maybe they should have saved some offense from the NK blowout. villa owned them, and is shaping up to be the best offensive player of the WM yet.
lars, your analysis of player choice by Bradley sounds on the mark to me...and it's true, this was a golden opportunity for the US to advance to maybe the quarters because the opposition was beatable. I can't help thinking, though, that no matter the player choices, if some of those easy goal opportunities were completed (and some makeable saves were made by Howard) then the US would still be playing. They showed amazing mettle at the end against Slovenia but basically surrendered against Ghana, stopped attacking at the end...maybe they were just out of energy.
This thread seems to be running of energy...must be the less than inspiring World Cup play so far...but there's two games coming up that could both be finals: Argentina - Germany and Netherlands - Brazil...and Spain - Paraguay should have some sparks too. I'm betting on an all South-American final.
I suppose fewer games means less entries.
Too bad for the US. You are definitely right, Emilio...GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY on that side of the bracket.
From my (argentina´s) perspective, Im gritting my teeth and hoping for the best. while at the same time wondering how Brazil..THE team, ends up with a cake walk to the final before real opposition. (i dont expect sparks against paraguay. Paraguay is not that good IMO)
but to beat, mexico, germany, spain...and THEN be in the final...against Brazil is an uphill battle. Im not making any excuses but you have to believe if a team from the tough side of the bracket wins it all, they more than deserve it.
@awkeytect: "From my (argentina´s) perspective, Im gritting my teeth and hoping for the best. while at the same time wondering how Brazil..THE team, ends up with a cake walk to the final before real opposition."
I'm feeling a slight bit insulted in my national pride - you are suggesting that the Netherlands'll be a walk-over for Brazil, which I'm sure will not be the case. If the dutch national coach is willing to take some risks, and put fast attackers against Maicon and Bastos, and players who like to walk against the static defending midfielders of Brazil. In short: it won't be as easy as you suggest. Just as Mexico wasn't that big of an opposition for Argentina...
the dutch will win handily. you heard it here first.
p.s. bc they have amazing attackers and have not given up a goal that wasn't a pk.
you shouldnt feel insulted...the opposite should be the case...
I have more respect for brazil than that...I know how good they can be. THe problem in watching them is that they play at the level of their opponents so they just look mediocre..or just good enough to win.
but ok...the netherlands is good ...so thats 1 team.
Mexico always plays well against argentina... rememeber last world cup?
add germany, spain, to that..and that might be a tougher path than netherlands and uruguay?
anyone? does this not make sense, am I terrible misguided?
you are right. Brazil got lucky that Italy and France failed in the group stage. Imagine playing Chile-Netherlands-Italy (a good shaped Italy), it'd be pretty much equal to playing Mexico-Germany-Spain, I'd reckon. If Argentina would've come second in their group, they'd be playing Uruguay - Ghana - Netherlands, about the same strength opponents Brazil has, now.
So all in all: a case of bad luck that all the surprises where on the other half of the schedule...
the only thing i like more than seeing the dutch win is seeing brazil lose. best match of the tournament so far.
they felt sorry for the dutch, so they scored a goal for them. Can't even score a goal with 10 players
Brazil goes down....
Yes, absolutely the best match so far...edge of your seat good.
It was two different games from the first half to the second; Brazil played brilliantly in the 1st then basically imploded in the 2nd, making defensive errors and stupid penalties...and almost still tied it with 10 on the field. I knew the Dutch were not done at halftime, thought it would be tied and go to penalties. Amazing performances by Robben, Sneijder, and Stekelenburg (he made the save of the game on Kaka).
Netherlands - Argentina final? (although I wouldn't count Spain out).
Brazil lost their composure, and apparently some Brazilian fans are not gracious in defeat either.
holland is going to give germany an awesome pay back in the final.
and Felipe Melo better not show himself back home for a while.....
yes, beta, I kind of dissed Germany there...I wouldn't count them out either...you can never count them out....
"Soccer is a game for 22 people that run around, play the ball, and one referee who makes a slew of mistakes, and in the end Germany always wins.”
- (old saying)
YAAAAAAA!!!! what an awesome game that was. My heartrate went up to 220 in the last 15 minutes, but we are in the semi-finals!
whoa! .... and in the end, Germany always wins.
4-0 . bye, bye Diego.
Let's hope in the end Germany makes it to the finals and effectively, wins. That will mean Spain will be out and with 8 or 9 goals, please.
Go Germany! Go Mies! Go Gropius! Go Bauhaus!
yeah, messy showing by messi and the divers.
i think a DE/NL final is in the works...
what's up w/ espn announcers, tho? do they not realize uruguay and paraguay are south american teams?
also, someone please b*tchslap lalas... argentina's 'sandlot play' destroys the non-existent u.s. system anyday. i really don't understand why this idiot is their go-to analysis guy...
owwweeee....
bummer.
Defense always wins championships... its too bad- Offense is just too much fun to watch and Argentina cant give it up. It was fun while it lasted...
ORANJE ALL THE WAY!!!
holz....that one announcer on ESPN....is a dush bag, slime bucket, shame to the sport....of couse you know which one I speak of.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.