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2010 world cup

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Emilio

Putting emphasis on single players is of course valid, and single players can make a huge difference (France obviously misses Zidane's field direction and amazing assists), but I think that coaches, in the first round, are really mostly looking to see which combination of their players gels the most, and it's not always the most obvious combination. This is why substitutions in the early games can be so telling (Camoranese coming in for Italy in the second half changed the way Italy attacked for the better).

You can nitpick coaches' decisions at the WC, but I think there's a lot of trial and error on their part. I was grumbling at Lippi's decisions not to bring players such as Grosso, Nesta, and Toni, and leaving Guttuso on the bench, but, by going with new, younger players, he's also trying to find the national team that will play well into the future. I was kind of disappointed by Gilardino, but Montolivo played very well in place of the injured Pirlo. Losing Buffon at goal won't help (don't know that much about Marchetti).

(I'm talking about the Italian team because I know their players better than the US players, being a Serie A fanatic).

Jun 16, 10 3:38 pm  · 
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awkeytect

Im with you.
I dont care how old they are...Im starting Camoranese and Gattuso...

Jun 16, 10 3:44 pm  · 
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larslarson

ah..that was my second guess.

i apologize for being a bit touchy..
i sited only two examples but there are a ton of normal goals scored by the US. and actually some very beautiful goals...to say the US only score lucky goals is to say that Messi has played amazingly well in the world cup in the past, or maradona didn't hand that ball in...all just aren't true.

if you're not seeing improvement you're just not looking for it though.
we were starting jeff agoos at one point not too long ago.. and there are many more americans playing in europe than ever before...and we actually have true strikers with creativity not just goalkeepers. the players on the field for the US at every position have a backup that is not 100% worse..and there are actually quite a few decent subs which we never had before...in addition the players on the field are very much more skilled then their counterparts 10 years ago.

i will definitely admit that CONCACAF is very weak...and probably one of the main reasons that the US is not improving more substantially ...because they don't have to. if they did have a tough group they'd have to hire a decent coach and maybe improve their system a bit more.

i will be the first to say that messi is a joy to watch and the US is far away from producing a player of his caliber...but they are capable of being a solid top ten side in the somewhat near future if things continue as they have been going for the past few cycles.

Jun 16, 10 3:49 pm  · 
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larslarson

emilio
but is the world cup really the place to test out combos? isn't that what friendlies and qualifying is for? i mean..it's great to know who is going to play for you in the future..but you don't bring them if you don't have any intention of playing them...you only get 23 after all.

i've only been talkin about the US cause i know them the most as well. i like germany, netherlands, brazil so far...there could be some surprises this world cup. i don't think this is italy's year but they do start slow right?

Jun 16, 10 4:08 pm  · 
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lletdownl

oofda.... poor SA....

Jun 16, 10 4:35 pm  · 
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Emilio

No, lars, not saying that the coach shouldn't want to win it now (this is Lippi's last hurrah, so he definitely wants to win it), and the preliminary games do tell you a lot: the thing is, once you get to the actual WC play, there's a lot more pressure to win and some players just never perform up to their capabilities; also, these players play (mostly) for different clubs, so it may take them a while to get in synch.

I think that the players Lippi and the other coaches brought are the players they consider the best and theoretically could all be played, and they surely have the ideal team of starters in their playbook, but the reality of actually playing in the WC, where each game counts and the whole world is watching, sometimes shoots the best laid plans to hell. In Italy's case, it always takes them two or three games to come together (slow start, as you say), and some years it doesn't happen at all...and then there's always the surprise players who raise the level of their game, like Paolo Rossi in 1980 and Toto' Schillaci in 90, that the coach can't always predict.

Agree that the USA national team has come a long, long way (most of the players are with European teams, which is a sure sign of their value). What's holding the USA back is a strong US league (MLS is not quite there yet) that can be an incubator for the national team on par with European or South American clubs.

"goalasso" by Furlan for Paraguay on the first one.

Jun 16, 10 4:50 pm  · 
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holz.box

forlan and uruguay looked pretty decent. SA won't make it to the next round, hey - the last host to do that was the U.S.

Jun 16, 10 5:01 pm  · 
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usernametaken

Argentina definitely has the players to win the cup. If Maradona doesn't mingle with the team too much, and just let the players play their game, it probably works out better than if he's trying to be an actual coach...

Oh, and it's also important for Argentina that Bilardo takes back his words, otherwise no one would want to score a goal in the final...

Jun 16, 10 5:06 pm  · 
 · 
Sounder

@Emilio, agree with the statement that the MLS isn't there yet. But it's a pretty young league still. Adding the new teams in stages as they are I hope helps it grow without fizzing out. And compared to where it was when it started? So much better. I do think the US, in general, has come leaps and bounds and am very excited and hopeful for them.

I don't think Argentina will go all the way-they'll make it far, but I'm thinking not to the final game. Granted I don't know all the players, so I can't speak to that, but I know that Messi alone can't do it. Originally I thought Spain would kill everyone, but Switzerland proved me wrong! I thought Germany looked pretty spectacular, but I don't know if they could keep that up agains a stronger side.

I guess I just want the US to have a good showing and to see some exciting games. So far everyone has been playing really safe, I'm looking forward to seeing some attacking soccer. Here's hoping it happens soon.

Jun 16, 10 5:08 pm  · 
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dia

Hang on,

You are forgetting the biggest story of the World Cup so far - New Zealand (#78) drawing with Slovakia (#34).

You are only as good as your last game, and by that definition we are equal to or better than England, the US, and of course miles above Australia.

So prepare for a trouncing. I could go further, but modesty prevents me.

Jun 16, 10 6:15 pm  · 
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Emilio

correcting mistakes:

Gattuso (not Guttuso)

Forlan (not Furlan)

and it was Pele' who said Maradona should not be in charge of Argentina, not Beckenbauer (there's no love lost between the two.)

The Kaiser instead has it with England: he said that what he saw England play has very little to do with football.

Jun 16, 10 7:05 pm  · 
 · 
Smile of Fury

holz,

The U.S. did make it to the round of 16 in '94.

I have been rooting for RSA, but unfortunately they are going to be the first hosts to not make it out of the group stage.

Jun 16, 10 8:05 pm  · 
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holz.box

you are absolutely right, they lost to brazil. was that when 3rd place groupings had a chance for round of 16? my memory is shot these days.

Jun 16, 10 9:29 pm  · 
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larslarson

actually..the only host to not make it to the second round would seem to be japan.

Jun 16, 10 9:33 pm  · 
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larslarson

the US did finish third in their group...but still advanced.

Jun 16, 10 9:34 pm  · 
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lletdownl

4-1 !!!!!! ok awkytect... Argentina has my attention

Jun 17, 10 9:40 am  · 
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Emilio

the beautiful game is back and Argentina's got it......

great overall team play; Messi and Higuain were brilliant; the third goal should have been Messi's.

Jun 17, 10 9:41 am  · 
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J_AFlores

Argentina has the best offense of the whole cup.. cnt wait to win the cup after all these yrs... yet i think that Maradona should put Milito as started instead of Higuain even though he scored today but Lio Messi and Kun Aguero made those goals possible!

Jun 17, 10 10:43 am  · 
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Emilio

yes, he should definitely play Milito...he was incredible in the Inter Champions League win.

Jun 17, 10 11:16 am  · 
 · 
Sounder

Well played, Argentina! Thanks for giving us a show. Hope it continues and that you prove me wrong by going all the way!

Good luck to France and Mexico.

Jun 17, 10 1:03 pm  · 
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awkeytect

Thats good stuff. Im already kind of disappointed we only get to watch them play 5 more times.

Im keeping my fingers crossed.

No shortage of forwards thats for sure. I personally may prefer aguero over milito AND higuain but no biggy. They've all got a lot of hustle to recover and I love that I can tell they are genuinely pissed off when they lose the ball.

France and Mexico should be a good one as well.

Jun 17, 10 1:38 pm  · 
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Medit

All I hope is that Spain will not even pass this first stage... I don't care about the rest.
Clubs competitions, that's where (good) soccer is.

Jun 17, 10 2:18 pm  · 
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medit you say that every world cup.;.)
this place is getting old!

Jun 17, 10 3:22 pm  · 
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lletdownl

mexico handling france pretty easily here... perhaps this is karma...

Jun 17, 10 4:07 pm  · 
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holz.box

karma for the ireland spot?

wow. mexico's defense was decent and FRA had zero offense. does FRA have a chance? looks like they have to beat SA to a pulp and hope uruguay doesn't score some deal with mexico to draw...

US bright and early manana..

Jun 17, 10 4:45 pm  · 
 · 
lletdownl

yeah karma for the Ireland spot...

Im not sure FRA has any shot... at this point, both mexico and uruguay will go through with a draw in game 3 right?

im fairly certain both teams will be well aware of that and it will be a super cautious one...

Jun 17, 10 5:18 pm  · 
 · 
awkeytect

I think both uruguay and mexico will go at eachother full force. Second place plays argentina as opposed to most likely south korea...

Jun 17, 10 5:55 pm  · 
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dia

Ok,

I am not suprised that you are not talking about New Zealand. You are all terrified.

And now, we have scientific proof that we are one of the top 6 teams of the World Cup.

Read on and weep:


Science* reveals we're better than Spain

New Zealand currently stand 78th in the Fifa world rankings, but now that every team has played its first game of the World Cup, a much clearer picture has emerged of where we stand against the world's best 31 nations.

First up, there is some evidence that is beyond question. We are head and shoulders above anyone who has not got a point - that is called a "universal truth".

There are 10 teams in this category who, for the purposes of this experiment, we'll call "The Losers".

So, we're better than North Korea and we're better than Algeria, though that is probably not a surprise to most.

Interestingly, we're better than Cameroon and Denmark who were both thumped 2-0. Man-for-man, that means up front Shane Smeltz is better than Arsenal star Nicklas Bendtner. That was obvious anyway, as Bendtner can't hold down a starting spot for his London club while Smeltz owns the A-League's Golden Boot and is one of the first names on the teamsheet at Gold Coast United.

We're also better than Honduras, Greece, Nigeria and Serbia, but in the case of the latter at least that was already unequivocally proven with our 2-1 friendly victory a few weeks back.

The shock result from this study is that we are better than Spain, a fact that demands closer scrutiny.

That scrutiny reveals a fundamental flaw in the Spanish DNA. Despite high-quality specimens including Fernando Torres, Andres Iniesta and David Villa, the European champions are evidentially a Winston Reid short of perfection.

And finally, we're obviously huge leaps above the tournament's whipping boys; Australia. A 4-0 drubbing means the Socceroos are the worst team at the World Cup.

The second part of this investigation analyses those teams which, like the All Whites, drew a game so have one point.

However, New Zealand scored a goal so we can conclude without a doubt that we are better than any teams that didn't. Ipso facto, Ivory Coast, Uruguay, France and Portugal become a sub-category we can call "Beneath Us".

We are now left with 17 teams which, on the face of it, would seem to be on par or better than the All Whites.

However, a robust scientific test demands we moderate the results for variable factors.

Of the other teams that drew 1-1, South Africa can be discounted because they are the home nation. Likewise their opponents, Mexico, can also be discounted because they failed to beat a team this test has just proved is beneath New Zealand.

We can rule out both the US and Paraguay because they played teams far better than them and will never reach those heights again.

And, of course, Slovakia scored an off-side goal which should never have counted so we're better than them.

Curiously, science also reveals an anomaly. Some of the teams that won their first match are worse than the All Whites.

Chile had not won a World Cup match in 48 years before their win this week. New Zealand has gained a point only 28 years since first trying, which makes us the better team.

Other winners include Ghana, South Korea, Japan and Slovenia. Inputting the "opposition played" factor here reduces the quality of the winner.

Switzerland, meanwhile, must be discounted as their rogue result would skew otherwise robust research.

That leaves just six teams either "Possibly As Good As Us" or "Probably Better Than Us".

We are on par with England and Italy. Those above the All Whites are Germany, Argentina, the Netherlands and Brazil.

These findings, which provide compelling evidence that the All Whites are the joint fifth-best team in the world, will be forwarded to Fifa immediately.

*The word scientific is used figuratively and imaginatively and is not intended to reflect anything remotely scientific.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10652630&pnum=0

Jun 17, 10 6:54 pm  · 
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dia

ps. I know that Mexico beat France, so we'll take position #6

Jun 17, 10 6:57 pm  · 
 · 

I just heard my first real vuvela sound outside my office. next door is all mexican apartment. it does have the sound of a plastic trompet. los angeles needed this uplift of spirits.
lakers next.
appearently crowds are going crazy near staples center. might be double double for los angeles.

yes we are a mexican city here in LA!

Jun 17, 10 10:04 pm  · 
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holz.box

lakers next?!? oooh, orhan just dropped a level!

i effing hate you lakers. celts were playing like france out there. lowest scoring playoff in how long?!?

Jun 18, 10 12:52 am  · 
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holz.box

worst.. reffing. ever. either match.

Jun 18, 10 10:53 am  · 
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Thom Yorke

DONOVANNNNNN

Jun 18, 10 11:06 am  · 
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Thom Yorke

BRADLEYYYYY

Jun 18, 10 11:41 am  · 
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drums please, Fab?

yay another tie we're all equal no winners or losers !!

Jun 18, 10 11:58 am  · 
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Thom Yorke

FRaC, look at the big picture - Group standings. Plus, we all get JUICE BOXES!!

Jun 18, 10 12:04 pm  · 
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Emilio

thrilling comeback by the USA, and two beautiful goals...

BUT

that should have been a USA win. Bradley is put in a bear hug by the Slovenian player and we get the goal annulled?! Can anyone explain that call? I didn't see an offsides in the replay, so what the hell was that bozo thinking?

Jun 18, 10 12:14 pm  · 
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Thom Yorke

Group C appears to be very evenly matched, a little too even. This will be interesting.

Jun 18, 10 4:22 pm  · 
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larslarson

emilio.
the ref isn't talking, but the consensus is that he called edu for pushing off... which is ludicrous...how else are you supposed to get away from a guy with both arms around you? all four players going to the net were being held by a defender...but the foul is on the US. one of the worst ref'd games in the cup.. although it's par for the course for the US. i'm upset that we're not atop the group right now.

awkytect.
did either of those goals look pretty to you? or were they both lucky deflections? even the third goal was nice.

now the US needs to handle algeria...man what is going on with england?

and wow serbia..noone mentioned it?

Jun 18, 10 7:29 pm  · 
 · 
Medit
medit you say that every world cup.;.)
this place is getting old!


yes... I'm getting old too... :D

there's a campaign for Catalonia to have our own national team for Brasil '14 (next WC)... of course it won't happen but dreaming is free. And it would be fair. Scotland has its own national team too and it's not a state, but then the quality of the democracy of the UK is not exactly like the one from the Spanish state, which is, of course, pathetic.

I think we would have a pretty good team for a little nation: Valdés, Puyol, Piqué, Xavi, Cesc, Bojan, Busquets... and Pep Guardiola could be our coach. In fact, it would be almost like Barça (minus Messi, bu with the still-a-Gunner-soon-to-go-to-Barça, Cesc).

Jun 18, 10 7:51 pm  · 
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my take:

serious contenders: Netherlands, Argentina

vulnerable: Brazil, Spain, Germany, Italy

total busts: France, England

sleepers: Uruguay, Ghana, Portugal, South Korea, USA

* horrible refereeing aside, I think it's time to bench Onyewu. There is no doubt he has given quality caps in the past, but he had culpability in giving up the 2 goals to Slovenia, and always seemed a step short. That's what I would do if I were coach.

Jun 19, 10 4:42 pm  · 
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usernametaken

I am kind of gloating over the mess England is making of this world cup. I heard/read some great jokes about them today, some I'd like to share with you:

"All future england matches have been moved to the gay adult channel. Apparently the sight of 11 arseholes getting hammered frequently for 90 minutes was far too explicit for ITV."

"The England team visited an orphanage in Cape Town today. "It's heartbreaking to see their sad little faces with no hope" said Jamal - aged 6."

Jun 19, 10 6:00 pm  · 
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lletdownl

HA!!! i like that 2nd one quite a bit... good one

Jun 19, 10 6:29 pm  · 
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Emilio

the English papers have the funniest headlines tearing their team a new one. It started with "the Hand of Clod" for the goalie after that flubbed stop and has just kept going ("Roo-boo-zela" was the response to Rooney's juvenile rant after the last game). Funny stuff.

Jun 19, 10 7:30 pm  · 
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larslarson

must be nice to be Italy and get a PK for little or nothing... the US needs to learn to dive as well as their Italian counterparts.

Jun 20, 10 11:04 am  · 
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holz.box

nelsens yellow for refusing to get on a stretcher in 10 seconds? classy. italians suck as much as the reffing does.

wouldn't it be sweet if ITA didn't make it through?

Jun 20, 10 11:50 am  · 
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larslarson

it's crazy to think that england, france, germany and italy could all be knocked out in the first round. italy didn't deserve a point today...nz defended well and if not for the pk would've won..and almost did in the last few minutes..

i've never seen someone get a card for not getting up for an injury fast enough... i mean.. what is injury time for?

the more times i see the replay of the disallowed goal the angrier i get. and for all of those people that say they didn't deserve to win because of how they played in the first half.. i say bs. a soccer game is two halves..and the US well outplayed Slovenia in the second and DID score three goals..so they DID deserve to win.

Jun 20, 10 1:20 pm  · 
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Medit
i've never seen someone get a card for not getting up for an injury fast enough

that happens from time to time... if the referee knows the players' idiosincracy and how they 'behave' in these situations... they prepare the games as much as the coach and teams do

Jun 20, 10 2:30 pm  · 
 · 
Phantom

I think the vuvuzelas got even more annoying during Brazil vs Ivory Coast..

Jun 20, 10 2:43 pm  · 
 · 

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