I am/was a "senior architect"- (whatever that means), 20 years experience. Been unemployed one year. Most of my career has been on the design side, and with Macs/Archicad, though I am adequate with Autocad.
I took a 3-day Revit training class like 6 months ago, and got the free copy of Revit for a year at home. I am wondering if its worth doing anything more than going through the tutorial, or if I should plunge in and do a small hypothetical project with it. I am trying to fill in the gaps on my resume, but there's a difference between on the job experience with a team and working on it at home, and as a senior architect, it can vary how much I will be doing.
In short, is it worth investing the time with a project, or better to do the tutorial and use that time for other things- competition , web design, bussing tables, learning luge.
from my experience with Revit, the big thing is developing the parametric families and stacked walls
those families take a little time to figure out what parts of the model you want to allow to "flex"
I think, for your level and experience, it would be best to gear your knowledge of Revit toward understanding modeling/production flow. A lot of senior level people that are used to cad expect the production of sheets in a certain pace - which is not how Revit works. I'd think if you were to be involved in a project with Reivt, you should know how to move around walls and discuss project flow, but not necessarily have to make families - just have to familiar with the concept of them.
Build a model of where you live. The tutorial projects are useless. The thing to realize is there are multiple ways to build things and it will take some time to figure our what works best for production. The added benefit of modeling your existing space is you will use phases and learn to manage more properties and views. Also print your drawings so you can see the lineweight and annotations these are also things that will need to be adjusted.
I believe it is mostly about your mindset. You will get frustrated and wonder why won't it do what I want...when this happens take a step back and look for a different way to get the result you desire and let the program do what it does, there are always graphic overrides when all else fails.
elwood - if most of your experience has been on the design side then that is probably what you will be hired for again. Go with your strengths.
Create your own project in Revit. The tutorials are helpful for visual people, but you really can't showcase a tutorial.
You should be well versed in conceptual design and massing studies, master all of the modeling tools, know how to create new materials and understand project work flow. You should also understand how families are created. You should be able to create a design concept and get that concept into presentation form that is print ready. Print your package to pdf so you can see what you need to adjust.
Creating a website portfolio of your work for future employers, or future clients is not a bad idea. www.squarespace.com is cheap and easy.
Are you licensed and LEED accredited? If not, licensure and accreditation should be high on your list. Learning Revit is a short term solution that may or may not pay off.
"Honestly I am intimidated by the switch to Revit."
No reason to be intimidated - it's easy " I leaned it it - sufficently enough in two weeks to use it on my thesis projects and got hired at SOM as soon as I graduated because of Revit - I am also out of work but busy with the 1 year freebe 2010 version redoing projects for my portfolio - because with everybody's brother and sister learning Revit now * this recession there are no points for 2nd best - that being said - be able to:
1. go from massing to schematic -
2. area plans
3. details for construction docs
4. be able to create families, schedules with shared parameters and expressions
5. topography - cut + fill with schedules
6. and be sure to understand shared coordinate systems both with linked Revit files, and Autocad files.
seriously, have fun with the conceptual modeler and gain some momentum before you go on to the more production but totally necessary production oriented tasks in my list - and then soon Life as you knew it, will cease to exist and architecture will be fun -
rethinkit -- any resources you know of that might help me get into the conceptual modeler? I'm familiar with Revit, but I seem to be struggling with this massing/modeling part -- i.e., using Revit as a design tool...
elwood, i would suggest using one of your existing projects, one created in autocad, and complete a fully fleshed out document set using revit. it will help you understand what is involved in assembling a cd set, and understand the flow and time frame to complete a set. you need to treat it like a real project, understand where the line exists between modeling and documentation. you can fiddle with the model forever, but if you don't know when to say when, you'll never be a productive force. assuming of course you'll be producing documentation in the next job.
Hey, thanks, rethink -- I'll check those out. So I take it you use Revit as a design phase tool (at school or work) using the massing/modeling tools to then get to schematic drawings and finally to construction documents? How well do you feel it works as a design tool? And, as a massing design tool that moves smoothly into actual drawings?
The cool thing about Revit, is that you can modify your conceptual massing elements, then modify your architectural elements back and forth. You can have walls and curtain walls applied to faces in the mass elements - where if you change the mass element, you simply hit the Update to face button and the walls and or curtain walls reconform to the conceptual mass faces. That being said, I will say this while the conceptual/massing tools are not quite as intuitive as Rhino, the advantage of having concept and all architectural elements in the same file more than makes up for it - as the project progresses, you pick up speed - it's more expediant than having a separate Rhino file that you change, then go over and change all these Autocad files. it definatley moves smoothly from concept to CD.
good renderings too and you can export to Max via .fbx file format. t
Yeah, I think even for a senior architect, it's probably worth it learning revit really well and getting comfortable with it... It would probably be more useful IMHO to have a project done in revit to show in your portfolio complete with detail drawings, annotation, schedules etc. to bring to an interview vs. spending time on building a website...
I would probably build a hypothetical project for your resume and portfolio and actually document it so you have a drawing set you can bring in to an interview... Figure out how the software works from schedules, area plans, drafting details, etc... In order to understand project workflow and how to use it on a project...
In the schematic phase, area plans are useful as well for space planning... you can study *design schemes* which are alternate designs you can store in your model during the design phase... you can then create area plans of the different schemes to show programmatic info for communications with a client or to compare the different schemes...
Also, figure out how to incorporate details or cad work from autocad (or even jpegs) onto revit sheets in the CD phase... It's not a hard thing to do, but useful if you are much faster at autocad you can work between the two as needed... Also, you might find that you already have some generic details or content created in autocad or on other drawing sets you've produced which you will want to reuse if you were to do a project in revit, so it's useful to be able to cut and paste CAD details onto your sheets so you can for example borrow things from your old archicad sets and reuse them on your revit sheets...
we are just finishing up CDs for a large university building, and its our first project in Revit
I kind of just came on to help with the plan details towards the end, so i dont know too much of how it went during the rest of the design
But it definitely seems like doing your own project probably would be a good idea, rather than just the tutorials. I imaging starting with the tutorials is a good idea, but then have a project done for your portfolio.
One thing i have noticed is that the production methods are pretty different when compared to AutoCAD in terms of just making that final push for a deadline. The PM and the principal on the project got a little frustrated with making some final edits in that it is just a different process in general. Just being familiar with the production process in Revit would be very valuable
Thank you for opening this topic. I'm in a similar situation, though I'm focusing more on my own small practice for the time being (using Archicad). I took the 3-day workshop in Revit too, in an effort to keep my options open if I need to look for a job again. Did you find quite a bit of crossover between Archicad and Revit? I felt like there were many similarities and for those of us already comfortable with BIM, the learning curve for Revit seems steeper. Just wondering what you thought about it.
I'd like to put a project into Revit too, but I'm on a Mac and I'm avoiding the virtual PC thing. That seems intimidating to me for some reason, but I suppose I should just jump in as work is pretty slow....
I am in the exact same boat. I know Archicad very well, have used it with a bit of free-lance work here. I took the class, partitioned my Mac with Boot Camp, and the free copy of Revit (as part of the Autodesk promotion) has sat "over there" on the Windows side for 6 months.
My main issue has been its a big time commitment, and also related to whether I will be working for a firm again at all. I feel ultimately I will, but my experience lately has been there's always some other new qualification I don't have. The new requirement here in SF, after revit of course, is a lot of jobs seeking fluent Mandarin speakers. Next you will be required to leap tall buildings in a single...etc.
Its crazy out there, and the continued non-responses to my efforts with firms makes me think more about focusing exclusively on my own work , which includes a bit of web design. This is an on-going internal dialogue I think most unemployed architects have.
Ultimately, this thread has convinced me its worth devoting several days a week for the next couple of months developing a small project in Revit, while continuing to push in all directions. I guess whichever breaks first wins.
For what it's worth, i have been using Revit for only 2 weeks now after a 5 day class 8 months ago
A couple months of sparing use putting together a project will be enough to get you familiar with the program to the point where you can put it on your resume
It does have an easy learning curve if you are able to use it consistently
I don't use revit, but I am curious if its libraries can be adapted to modelling urban scale objects (buildings and groups of buildings, infrastructural and repeating landscape forms) effectively and parametrically.
Anyone ever try to do a conceptual neighborhood this way?
Revit can do that... You can build a site... build a terrain based on countours etc... And drop masses in there... There's a category of site components, parking components, etc. like trees and vegetation you can easily drop into the site like nothing... It's hierarchical like any families, so vegetation knows it sits on a ground surface... you can edit the site, grade, building pads etc... daylighting studies...
re: families in the site i would assume that you can make custom families for site components like a group of buildings, not sure... I'm not sure how good it is for doing huge urban scale stuff... never tried
I've done that before... Where were you guys when I was working on it? To keep it in perspective though, the best use of parametrics in my mind is best utilized for fast-tracking workflow, not necessarily generating form (and I've heard rumors of Revit being inaccurate once you pass a 2 mile radius from the origin). Although I gotta say, conceptual massing combined with the ability to create your own patterns is interesting.
Now, as an internal trainer and former interim BIM manager, I must say that I would be less interested in senior staff actually knowing how to use it in great detail. That stuff can be figured out on the job, and might as well because different offices have different levels of involvement and use. Its really about understanding the implementation, workflow, how that affects deliverables/ contracts/ liability/ etc, etc. Of course some of this is only possible after knowing how the program works, but you don't exactly need to know HOW to do a parametric conceptual mass to have an idea about using BIM to your advantage.
I'm going to plug my philosophy about BIM again; its not about doing the same amount of deliverables in less time, its about doing better quality deliverables. Some firms try to become more profitable with BIM by billing less on the same value of work, but instead they should focus on rationalizing the higher value of BIM deliverables. Its tough, but it has to be done or BIM will simply be another way to decrease the value of our time (with more expensive software).
And to be uncharacteristically (?) harsh, some of this can only be learned on the job with in-depth involvement in more than one project. The worst case scenario is for a new hire come in with their heads in the cloud based on ideas they learned while playing around with the software or from their "research" which most likely came from the internet. You have to see the issues in person on the real job, working with and managing between multiple parties including the contractor.
it is just like when someone learned AutoCAD
they werent necessarily an expert after their 1st project
They knew how to use it after their 1st project, but as with any program, it takes many many projects to actually use it in the best way and up to its capabilities
Agree slartbartfast, but for an unemployed architect job hunting, knowing how to use the software enough to handle doing one project is better than nothing... Also I think as a more senior level architect, it may not be necessary to get too in depth but knowing the essentials and how it can be used at different phases is definitely something to have...
I'm actually in SF too. It's weird about the fluent Mandarin requirement that's been popping up, huh? But I wouldn't let that discourage you. I think you're already ahead of the game with a steady grasp on the conceptual framework that Archicad requires, and firms that run it will start hiring again (eventually).
I suppose I'll give the Revit/Bootcamp deal a shot to cover the bases. I've gotten pretty used to working for myself though, it would be hard to go back to a firm environment... but I never really planned on running a business. I like parts of it, but I also find it stressful. I wonder if that would lighten up over time and if/when things turn around.
Get as many tools under your belt as you possibly can - how can it not benefit you?
And really, the advice that was at the beginning of this thread about being able to understand the pace and flow of production based on the software for someone of your level of service will put you in a teeny tiny minority. I would say model increasingly larger "projects" as you have the time.
As a person who is the next level down from elwood in terms of experience, I have to say that the hardest thing for people at his level and higher is to genuinely understand the way drawings are produced in the modern architectural office. For many firm owners the "black box" mentality of the computer and CAD software is still entrenched. If you are able to manage not only the people under you, but the software that they use - as well as produce drawings when the times get really tough - you are one big ol' pile of invaluable to whomever picks you up.
Plus, you have ArchiCad experience which helps with the mentality of actually building (or modeling) the building and then cutting views of it, and AutoCad experience, which helps you deal with the weird world of Autodesk.
("black box" = I tell the CAD monkeys to do something and then a week later everything is drawn).
ANYone who has ANY problems with revit, you should come visit this revit chat room. At least 5-6 people are here every work day and sometimes even on the weekends:
This string is great! I've been grappling with the tutorials and was just about ready to bag them (I'm not finding them helpful) but thought diving into my own (past) projects as a primer to set up a 'real world' project delivery set (using the program exclusively) was the way to go. That's how I learned Sketchup. I think I'll just go ahead and 'jump in.' Anyone have other suggestions?
It's during these down times that there are huge advances in technology..Gives firms time to adjust to the future. Same thing happened in the recession of the early 90's - that's when AutoCad took off.....
So you want to Learn Revit well! This is indeed possible for a "Senior" Architect if your employer allows you to "fail" in terms of speed on Revit for 3 to 4 years while constantly asking for help from your nearby co-workers!
I know this sounds very harsh, but it is the reality that has converted over 50,000 highly productive Licensed architect-employees of firms before the era of REVIT into unemployed victims of a vicious, uncaring profession.
So what can you do? Ok, do that hypothetical project in Revit, and it may at least get you hired somewhere temporarily. Since working in REVIT is so counter-intuitive, and A-E firms are so unwilling to provide appropriate training for you in REVIT (because it is so expensive), you will probably get laid off again within 6 months to one year. (FYI, 1 year of appropriate REVIT training would cost approximately $70,000 to $100,000 in training fees to Autodesk or one of its resellers!!!......so how exactly are you supposed to learn to use it efficiently like a Millennial fresh out of 5 years of College?)
Autodesk Revit is an unnecessarily complex, expensive drafting tool (yes that is all it is, an overpriced "drafting tool", or difficult means to an end) that does not integrate well with AutoCAD, or with any other program. The truth is that Autodesk did not create REVIT; they purchased the rights to REVIT, a program originally designed for the automated design of ugly, boxy mass-production automobiles that was being purchased by some architects for use in illustrating and designing cheap, repeatable buildings. Autodesk then sold REVIT as an alternative to their nimble-2D AutoCAD family of products, without providing proper training resources for older architects already steeped in using a number of related easy-to-learn intuitive AutoCAD 2D and 3D products.
REVIT apparently was used as a career killer by A-E and design firms starting in the early years of the Great-Recession for many architects who no longer “fit-in”. REVIT has destroyed the livelihoods of numerous people, and deserves to be used as a basis for widespread Class action litigation on behalf of tens of thousands of un-named Architect defendants. Training resources and the need to be productive in REVIT was not equally applied to all staff and job titles, and therefore caused age discrimination against an entire class of architectural professional workers, who previously had on-going careers in the Architecture profession.
Autodesk and major A-E firms who have laid-off or inadvertently caused the lay-off of Architects not familiar with REVIT need to be forced to pay proper restitution for the career damages in terms of lost income, lost seniority and professional humiliation to perhaps 50 – 100,000 Architects in the United States alone.
This will not solve the immediate problem of how to learn REVIT, but it will force firms to think twice before wantonly “killing” the careers of so many in the future and will provide billions in restitution money for all those architects who are now losing their hard won career expertise, and are facing early retirement in deep-poverty! Unite and sue, sue, sue, sue sue!!! Especially sue Autodesk for carelessly introducing this new technology without proper affordable training resources available to all. Efficiency in REVIT cannot be learned from one of their poorly written, pedantic books!
This destruction of people’s lives has got to be stopped! If we join in class-action status, we will impose justice on a profession and technology industry that only cares about mining and exploiting data, regardless of the mass redundancies that are now starting to happen every pay cycle……worldwide!
"pay proper restitution for the career damages in terms of lost income, lost seniority and professional humiliation to perhaps 50 – 100,000 Architects in the United States alone."
Really? 100k architects canned because they could not learn how to manage BIM? Citation seriously required. Also, Revit is not that difficult. you don't need to know much about construction to fake your way into it.
Quit your whining. Your bullshit isn't going to stop progress or technology. Firms can do more work with less people - just make sure you are one of those people by staying current and relevant.
The ability of classes of workers to overturn arbitration clauses in specious employment at-will contracts is coming to your hometown "real-soon"! Architects......"BE GONE"!
How about moving to Mars on one of those nice "big" Space-X" phallus rockets, since you all lack so much empathy with the plight of professional and of ordinary workers! Unfortunately that technology won't be ready for prime-time until the 2030's, or 40's.
I picked up Revit in less than 2 days to the point where I could set up my own CD set. If you're so incompetent that you can't evolve along with the profession than that is your problem. I'm not staffing my projects with people who can't be bothered to make marginal efforts to learn new tools.
Revit and the unemployed
Seeking sage advice.
I am/was a "senior architect"- (whatever that means), 20 years experience. Been unemployed one year. Most of my career has been on the design side, and with Macs/Archicad, though I am adequate with Autocad.
I took a 3-day Revit training class like 6 months ago, and got the free copy of Revit for a year at home. I am wondering if its worth doing anything more than going through the tutorial, or if I should plunge in and do a small hypothetical project with it. I am trying to fill in the gaps on my resume, but there's a difference between on the job experience with a team and working on it at home, and as a senior architect, it can vary how much I will be doing.
In short, is it worth investing the time with a project, or better to do the tutorial and use that time for other things- competition , web design, bussing tables, learning luge.
from my experience with Revit, the big thing is developing the parametric families and stacked walls
those families take a little time to figure out what parts of the model you want to allow to "flex"
I think you just answered my question.
I think, for your level and experience, it would be best to gear your knowledge of Revit toward understanding modeling/production flow. A lot of senior level people that are used to cad expect the production of sheets in a certain pace - which is not how Revit works. I'd think if you were to be involved in a project with Reivt, you should know how to move around walls and discuss project flow, but not necessarily have to make families - just have to familiar with the concept of them.
Build a model of where you live. The tutorial projects are useless. The thing to realize is there are multiple ways to build things and it will take some time to figure our what works best for production. The added benefit of modeling your existing space is you will use phases and learn to manage more properties and views. Also print your drawings so you can see the lineweight and annotations these are also things that will need to be adjusted.
I believe it is mostly about your mindset. You will get frustrated and wonder why won't it do what I want...when this happens take a step back and look for a different way to get the result you desire and let the program do what it does, there are always graphic overrides when all else fails.
elwood - if most of your experience has been on the design side then that is probably what you will be hired for again. Go with your strengths.
Create your own project in Revit. The tutorials are helpful for visual people, but you really can't showcase a tutorial.
You should be well versed in conceptual design and massing studies, master all of the modeling tools, know how to create new materials and understand project work flow. You should also understand how families are created. You should be able to create a design concept and get that concept into presentation form that is print ready. Print your package to pdf so you can see what you need to adjust.
Creating a website portfolio of your work for future employers, or future clients is not a bad idea. www.squarespace.com is cheap and easy.
Are you licensed and LEED accredited? If not, licensure and accreditation should be high on your list. Learning Revit is a short term solution that may or may not pay off.
I'm licensed and have 11 years experience with AutoCAD and PhotoShop.
Honestly I am intimidated by the switch to Revit.
Being unemployed right now I am seriously considering practicing with the software.
I've heard you can get the software for free if you are unemployed. Can anyone guide me in the right direction to do this?
Keep the thoughts on this thread coming...its all very thought provoking and useful.
Thanks.
"Honestly I am intimidated by the switch to Revit."
No reason to be intimidated - it's easy " I leaned it it - sufficently enough in two weeks to use it on my thesis projects and got hired at SOM as soon as I graduated because of Revit - I am also out of work but busy with the 1 year freebe 2010 version redoing projects for my portfolio - because with everybody's brother and sister learning Revit now * this recession there are no points for 2nd best - that being said - be able to:
1. go from massing to schematic -
2. area plans
3. details for construction docs
4. be able to create families, schedules with shared parameters and expressions
5. topography - cut + fill with schedules
6. and be sure to understand shared coordinate systems both with linked Revit files, and Autocad files.
seriously, have fun with the conceptual modeler and gain some momentum before you go on to the more production but totally necessary production oriented tasks in my list - and then soon Life as you knew it, will cease to exist and architecture will be fun -
rethinkit -- any resources you know of that might help me get into the conceptual modeler? I'm familiar with Revit, but I seem to be struggling with this massing/modeling part -- i.e., using Revit as a design tool...
Thanks for the great discussion. I am going to do a small project in Revit.
elwood, i would suggest using one of your existing projects, one created in autocad, and complete a fully fleshed out document set using revit. it will help you understand what is involved in assembling a cd set, and understand the flow and time frame to complete a set. you need to treat it like a real project, understand where the line exists between modeling and documentation. you can fiddle with the model forever, but if you don't know when to say when, you'll never be a productive force. assuming of course you'll be producing documentation in the next job.
Piggy - to get the free revit training, go to
http://students.autodesk.com/?nd=assistance_home
sharkswithlasers
"Mastering Revit Architecture" is a great book with good basics - can get it online at amazon
this site is really good -
http://therevitkid.com
a lot of good tutorails can be found here also
http://designreform.net/2009/04/revit-2010-curtain-panel-pattern-based-hexagons/
-mini-methinkit
Hey, thanks, rethink -- I'll check those out. So I take it you use Revit as a design phase tool (at school or work) using the massing/modeling tools to then get to schematic drawings and finally to construction documents? How well do you feel it works as a design tool? And, as a massing design tool that moves smoothly into actual drawings?
Exactly
Concept > Schematic > DD > CD
The cool thing about Revit, is that you can modify your conceptual massing elements, then modify your architectural elements back and forth. You can have walls and curtain walls applied to faces in the mass elements - where if you change the mass element, you simply hit the Update to face button and the walls and or curtain walls reconform to the conceptual mass faces. That being said, I will say this while the conceptual/massing tools are not quite as intuitive as Rhino, the advantage of having concept and all architectural elements in the same file more than makes up for it - as the project progresses, you pick up speed - it's more expediant than having a separate Rhino file that you change, then go over and change all these Autocad files. it definatley moves smoothly from concept to CD.
good renderings too and you can export to Max via .fbx file format. t
autodesk will allow you to download a trial of any of their programs for thirty days but I am not sure how to continue the trial period
By the book Revit Architecture 2010 by Eric Wing; download a one year free copy, then you will be golden.
Yeah, I think even for a senior architect, it's probably worth it learning revit really well and getting comfortable with it... It would probably be more useful IMHO to have a project done in revit to show in your portfolio complete with detail drawings, annotation, schedules etc. to bring to an interview vs. spending time on building a website...
I would probably build a hypothetical project for your resume and portfolio and actually document it so you have a drawing set you can bring in to an interview... Figure out how the software works from schedules, area plans, drafting details, etc... In order to understand project workflow and how to use it on a project...
In the schematic phase, area plans are useful as well for space planning... you can study *design schemes* which are alternate designs you can store in your model during the design phase... you can then create area plans of the different schemes to show programmatic info for communications with a client or to compare the different schemes...
Also, figure out how to incorporate details or cad work from autocad (or even jpegs) onto revit sheets in the CD phase... It's not a hard thing to do, but useful if you are much faster at autocad you can work between the two as needed... Also, you might find that you already have some generic details or content created in autocad or on other drawing sets you've produced which you will want to reuse if you were to do a project in revit, so it's useful to be able to cut and paste CAD details onto your sheets so you can for example borrow things from your old archicad sets and reuse them on your revit sheets...
we are just finishing up CDs for a large university building, and its our first project in Revit
I kind of just came on to help with the plan details towards the end, so i dont know too much of how it went during the rest of the design
But it definitely seems like doing your own project probably would be a good idea, rather than just the tutorials. I imaging starting with the tutorials is a good idea, but then have a project done for your portfolio.
One thing i have noticed is that the production methods are pretty different when compared to AutoCAD in terms of just making that final push for a deadline. The PM and the principal on the project got a little frustrated with making some final edits in that it is just a different process in general. Just being familiar with the production process in Revit would be very valuable
elwood-
Thank you for opening this topic. I'm in a similar situation, though I'm focusing more on my own small practice for the time being (using Archicad). I took the 3-day workshop in Revit too, in an effort to keep my options open if I need to look for a job again. Did you find quite a bit of crossover between Archicad and Revit? I felt like there were many similarities and for those of us already comfortable with BIM, the learning curve for Revit seems steeper. Just wondering what you thought about it.
I'd like to put a project into Revit too, but I'm on a Mac and I'm avoiding the virtual PC thing. That seems intimidating to me for some reason, but I suppose I should just jump in as work is pretty slow....
oakley-
I am in the exact same boat. I know Archicad very well, have used it with a bit of free-lance work here. I took the class, partitioned my Mac with Boot Camp, and the free copy of Revit (as part of the Autodesk promotion) has sat "over there" on the Windows side for 6 months.
My main issue has been its a big time commitment, and also related to whether I will be working for a firm again at all. I feel ultimately I will, but my experience lately has been there's always some other new qualification I don't have. The new requirement here in SF, after revit of course, is a lot of jobs seeking fluent Mandarin speakers. Next you will be required to leap tall buildings in a single...etc.
Its crazy out there, and the continued non-responses to my efforts with firms makes me think more about focusing exclusively on my own work , which includes a bit of web design. This is an on-going internal dialogue I think most unemployed architects have.
Ultimately, this thread has convinced me its worth devoting several days a week for the next couple of months developing a small project in Revit, while continuing to push in all directions. I guess whichever breaks first wins.
For what it's worth, i have been using Revit for only 2 weeks now after a 5 day class 8 months ago
A couple months of sparing use putting together a project will be enough to get you familiar with the program to the point where you can put it on your resume
It does have an easy learning curve if you are able to use it consistently
good luck
I don't use revit, but I am curious if its libraries can be adapted to modelling urban scale objects (buildings and groups of buildings, infrastructural and repeating landscape forms) effectively and parametrically.
Anyone ever try to do a conceptual neighborhood this way?
Revit can do that... You can build a site... build a terrain based on countours etc... And drop masses in there... There's a category of site components, parking components, etc. like trees and vegetation you can easily drop into the site like nothing... It's hierarchical like any families, so vegetation knows it sits on a ground surface... you can edit the site, grade, building pads etc... daylighting studies...
re: families in the site i would assume that you can make custom families for site components like a group of buildings, not sure... I'm not sure how good it is for doing huge urban scale stuff... never tried
i am pretty sure you can make custom families in that way bRink
I dont know if that would be the best way to do it, but that is certainly possible
hmmm... I'd love to look into it. ..if only I can figure out how to get a revit license...
I've done that before... Where were you guys when I was working on it? To keep it in perspective though, the best use of parametrics in my mind is best utilized for fast-tracking workflow, not necessarily generating form (and I've heard rumors of Revit being inaccurate once you pass a 2 mile radius from the origin). Although I gotta say, conceptual massing combined with the ability to create your own patterns is interesting.
Now, as an internal trainer and former interim BIM manager, I must say that I would be less interested in senior staff actually knowing how to use it in great detail. That stuff can be figured out on the job, and might as well because different offices have different levels of involvement and use. Its really about understanding the implementation, workflow, how that affects deliverables/ contracts/ liability/ etc, etc. Of course some of this is only possible after knowing how the program works, but you don't exactly need to know HOW to do a parametric conceptual mass to have an idea about using BIM to your advantage.
I'm going to plug my philosophy about BIM again; its not about doing the same amount of deliverables in less time, its about doing better quality deliverables. Some firms try to become more profitable with BIM by billing less on the same value of work, but instead they should focus on rationalizing the higher value of BIM deliverables. Its tough, but it has to be done or BIM will simply be another way to decrease the value of our time (with more expensive software).
urbanist: you can download a Revit trial...
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=13133636
And to be uncharacteristically (?) harsh, some of this can only be learned on the job with in-depth involvement in more than one project. The worst case scenario is for a new hire come in with their heads in the cloud based on ideas they learned while playing around with the software or from their "research" which most likely came from the internet. You have to see the issues in person on the real job, working with and managing between multiple parties including the contractor.
yeah that is definitely true Slartibartfast
it is just like when someone learned AutoCAD
they werent necessarily an expert after their 1st project
They knew how to use it after their 1st project, but as with any program, it takes many many projects to actually use it in the best way and up to its capabilities
Agree slartbartfast, but for an unemployed architect job hunting, knowing how to use the software enough to handle doing one project is better than nothing... Also I think as a more senior level architect, it may not be necessary to get too in depth but knowing the essentials and how it can be used at different phases is definitely something to have...
Definitely not saying that its useless to look into it.
elwood-
I'm actually in SF too. It's weird about the fluent Mandarin requirement that's been popping up, huh? But I wouldn't let that discourage you. I think you're already ahead of the game with a steady grasp on the conceptual framework that Archicad requires, and firms that run it will start hiring again (eventually).
I suppose I'll give the Revit/Bootcamp deal a shot to cover the bases. I've gotten pretty used to working for myself though, it would be hard to go back to a firm environment... but I never really planned on running a business. I like parts of it, but I also find it stressful. I wonder if that would lighten up over time and if/when things turn around.
And the new Revit has mental ray rendering system now, so you can eliminate those lazy 3d-artists all together!
Get as many tools under your belt as you possibly can - how can it not benefit you?
And really, the advice that was at the beginning of this thread about being able to understand the pace and flow of production based on the software for someone of your level of service will put you in a teeny tiny minority. I would say model increasingly larger "projects" as you have the time.
As a person who is the next level down from elwood in terms of experience, I have to say that the hardest thing for people at his level and higher is to genuinely understand the way drawings are produced in the modern architectural office. For many firm owners the "black box" mentality of the computer and CAD software is still entrenched. If you are able to manage not only the people under you, but the software that they use - as well as produce drawings when the times get really tough - you are one big ol' pile of invaluable to whomever picks you up.
Plus, you have ArchiCad experience which helps with the mentality of actually building (or modeling) the building and then cutting views of it, and AutoCad experience, which helps you deal with the weird world of Autodesk.
("black box" = I tell the CAD monkeys to do something and then a week later everything is drawn).
ANYone who has ANY problems with revit, you should come visit this revit chat room. At least 5-6 people are here every work day and sometimes even on the weekends:
click the server button the server address is: gibson.info:6669
Make a nickname for yourself and click "go" Then ask away.
I tend to be there from noon - 5 or 6pm PST
The guy who runs the chatroom is the same guy who made this Revit Tip Of The Day website.
This string is great! I've been grappling with the tutorials and was just about ready to bag them (I'm not finding them helpful) but thought diving into my own (past) projects as a primer to set up a 'real world' project delivery set (using the program exclusively) was the way to go. That's how I learned Sketchup. I think I'll just go ahead and 'jump in.' Anyone have other suggestions?
damnit - I always forget the "hh"
The server address is: gibsonhh.info:6669
It's during these down times that there are huge advances in technology..Gives firms time to adjust to the future. Same thing happened in the recession of the early 90's - that's when AutoCad took off.....
So you want to Learn Revit well! This is indeed possible for a "Senior" Architect if your employer allows you to "fail" in terms of speed on Revit for 3 to 4 years while constantly asking for help from your nearby co-workers!
I know this sounds very harsh, but it is the reality that has converted over 50,000 highly productive Licensed architect-employees of firms before the era of REVIT into unemployed victims of a vicious, uncaring profession.
So what can you do? Ok, do that hypothetical project in Revit, and it may at least get you hired somewhere temporarily. Since working in REVIT is so counter-intuitive, and A-E firms are so unwilling to provide appropriate training for you in REVIT (because it is so expensive), you will probably get laid off again within 6 months to one year. (FYI, 1 year of appropriate REVIT training would cost approximately $70,000 to $100,000 in training fees to Autodesk or one of its resellers!!!......so how exactly are you supposed to learn to use it efficiently like a Millennial fresh out of 5 years of College?)
Autodesk Revit is an unnecessarily complex, expensive drafting tool (yes that is all it is, an overpriced "drafting tool", or difficult means to an end) that does not integrate well with AutoCAD, or with any other program. The truth is that Autodesk did not create REVIT; they purchased the rights to REVIT, a program originally designed for the automated design of ugly, boxy mass-production automobiles that was being purchased by some architects for use in illustrating and designing cheap, repeatable buildings. Autodesk then sold REVIT as an alternative to their nimble-2D AutoCAD family of products, without providing proper training resources for older architects already steeped in using a number of related easy-to-learn intuitive AutoCAD 2D and 3D products.
REVIT apparently was used as a career killer by A-E and design firms starting in the early years of the Great-Recession for many architects who no longer “fit-in”. REVIT has destroyed the livelihoods of numerous people, and deserves to be used as a basis for widespread Class action litigation on behalf of tens of thousands of un-named Architect defendants. Training resources and the need to be productive in REVIT was not equally applied to all staff and job titles, and therefore caused age discrimination against an entire class of architectural professional workers, who previously had on-going careers in the Architecture profession.
Autodesk and major A-E firms who have laid-off or inadvertently caused the lay-off of Architects not familiar with REVIT need to be forced to pay proper restitution for the career damages in terms of lost income, lost seniority and professional humiliation to perhaps 50 – 100,000 Architects in the United States alone.
This will not solve the immediate problem of how to learn REVIT, but it will force firms to think twice before wantonly “killing” the careers of so many in the future and will provide billions in restitution money for all those architects who are now losing their hard won career expertise, and are facing early retirement in deep-poverty! Unite and sue, sue, sue, sue sue!!! Especially sue Autodesk for carelessly introducing this new technology without proper affordable training resources available to all. Efficiency in REVIT cannot be learned from one of their poorly written, pedantic books!
This destruction of people’s lives has got to be stopped! If we join in class-action status, we will impose justice on a profession and technology industry that only cares about mining and exploiting data, regardless of the mass redundancies that are now starting to happen every pay cycle……worldwide!
"pay proper restitution for the career damages in terms of lost income, lost seniority and professional humiliation to perhaps 50 – 100,000 Architects in the United States alone."
Really? 100k architects canned because they could not learn how to manage BIM? Citation seriously required. Also, Revit is not that difficult. you don't need to know much about construction to fake your way into it.
a true luddite speaks ^
Quit your whining. Your bullshit isn't going to stop progress or technology. Firms can do more work with less people - just make sure you are one of those people by staying current and relevant.
Luddite, moi?
This proves why you all need to be sued and re-educated!.......or face an impovrished, hungry mob! Liberté, égalité, fraternité !
Really?
You sure sound dumb as fuck.
the luddite comment was directed to jayA...that post has to be a trolling effort, no?
I figured that much Chi... but that wall of texts speaks more Balkins rant than trolling.
The ability of classes of workers to overturn arbitration clauses in specious employment at-will contracts is coming to your hometown "real-soon"! Architects......"BE GONE"!
How about moving to Mars on one of those nice "big" Space-X" phallus rockets, since you all lack so much empathy with the plight of professional and of ordinary workers! Unfortunately that technology won't be ready for prime-time until the 2030's, or 40's.
^what?
I picked up Revit in less than 2 days to the point where I could set up my own CD set. If you're so incompetent that you can't evolve along with the profession than that is your problem. I'm not staffing my projects with people who can't be bothered to make marginal efforts to learn new tools.
Let's see...Who is the clueless "Luddite" now?
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.